[milo53]

its funny how Lenovo is being sneered at and their products trash talked now that they bought something from Google but people were talking them up and saying theyre a great, strong company when it was rumoured Lenovo was in talks to buy BlackBerry last year and then talked up again later before we got the $1b investment instead as a possible candidate to rally behind when BlackBerry was offering itself up for sale

It's always the case! Truely amazing.

[Omnitech]

Lenovo doesn't exactly have a reputation for maintaining standards when they buy hardware businesses.

Nonsense.

I have been using IBM PCs for decades and Thinkpads for 20 years.

I was skeptical of the IBM PC business buyout myself, but actually after some initial missteps, Lenovo has done an excellent job with that business, to the point that they have become the #1 maker of PCs in the world today.

Have you bought a pre-Lenovo Thinkpad? It was a TANK. Lenovo Thinkpads...not so much.

If you bought a $5,000 Thinkpad back in the days when you could actually get that kind of money for a laptop computer, sure. But one of the great things Lenovo has done is more or less maintain and extend the reputation of the top Thinkpads (ie T and X series) while producing a much broader range of mainstream models at lower price points. Just because you think a $300 IdeaPad is flimsy has nothing to do with their higher-end offerings, which remain excellent. No one's $300 laptop is going to be a "tank".

I still have one of the models below - take a look at the price range listed:

ThinkPads offer power, CD-ROM, voice. (Hardware Review) (IBM ThinkPad 750CE, 755CSE, 755CD) (Evaluation) | HighBeam Business: Arrive Prepared

All this measn is Google can afford a massive loss.

They will likely get a massive tax-break due to the book losses from that company. Google does tax-evasion with the best of them.

They got the patents which is what they really wanted, and they threw that business away when it no longer served them. This pattern repeats over and over at Google.

One of the most important points here is that the smartphone hardware business is extremely difficult to make money with, and this is particularly relevant to Blackberry. As a small player they either have to go to high-end/high-margin products, outsource design/production/logistics to someone else, or find some substantial revenue streams that don't require hardware profits.

It is also why promoting Android compatibility is a very very large risk for the company, as Google could easily eviscerate most of those potential revenue streams if they give Google Play and their advertising networks and frameworks a free ride on BlackBerry platforms.

Lenovo is in the cheap computer business. Giving away junk towers and laptops to companies like Telus. For them to use in promotions.

Lenovo was good once upon a time but not in the last 10 years..

I'm sure like any #1 maker of technology products they have giveaways and promotions. They also sell mainstream products that IBM never really bothered with so if you are solely basing your opinion on those you are missing the big picture. The main workstation in my home office (Lenovo D20 workstation) is an excellent "tank-like" piece of hardware, and is NOT a cheap product.

Lenovo also just bought IBM's x86 server division, and have contracts to partner with them on enterprise products for years to come.

BB outsources handset manufacturing to Foxconn (a Chinese company)

Hon Hai Precision dba Foxconn is NOT a Chinese company.

Unlike American or most foreign corporations, the bulk of Chinese corporations are either state controlled or have deep state connections.

And Lenovo is one of the unusual ones in that it is a highly diversified, multi-national company with research and manufacturing facilities around the world and top management personnel from many different countries.

It's kind of hilarious that US politicians would be pushing for a "US" computer source for govt contracts when in reality 95% of those are made by contract manufacturers in Asian countries anyway, including China. And in such cases the integrity of manufacture would seem to be far less predictable when ie HP is just contracting with ie Quanta or Pegatron to build them something and stick an HP logo on it (most likely assembled in one of their Chinese facilities), than if Lenovo built it in their own factory.

[Omnitech]

Honestly, I wouldn't expect the US Government to give Lenovo-owned Motorola handsets a warm welcome, lol.

You mean unlike this NSA contract:

https://www.gsaitcatalog.com/federal...le.asp?id=9360


Or perhaps all the stuff in the USA section of the International Space Station:

Products - Products - Lenovo Blogs


Then you have so-called journalists publishing stories claiming Lenovo was banned from purchase by FVEY countries, which the Australian authorities (see barely-visible correction at bottom of article) had to publicly refute:

NSA, GCHQ ban Lenovo PCs due to security concerns - 29 Jul 2013 - Computing News


And of course the usual populist grandstanding resulting in legislation last year actually restricting usage of Lenovo products for certain US agencies, at a time when the USA was exposed as having heretofore publicly unknown schemes to hoover up mountains of data on law-abiding citizens and insert backdoors into commercial products made by US vendors for export worldwide.

Forbidden Laptops Are On The Space Station - NASA Watch

One thing I have noticed over the years is the consistent tendency for untrustworthy people to suspect everyone else of doing the same sneaky things they do.

.

[revtech]

Yah tin foil hat time

Lenovo is mainland Chinese. Foxconn is Taiwanese. The difference is pretty important over there. Foxconn is a manufacturer that has plants in China and other places. Lenovo is a very big company that does it's own production.

The common factor. Is it is hard to make money manufacturing phones in North America. Sorry that's all.

Also Lenovo has spare cash to risk on this. They already makes a cap load of phones so what they are buying is a grand name like "Thinkpad". What makes sense in PRC may not make sense anywhere else.

So is your conspiracy a plan to control a bunch of failing products????

Posted via CB10

Geez guy, get a life . . there was no conspiracy mentioned, I was just asking for input as to what people thought might or might not happen; don't think conspiracy was ever mentioned or a part of my thinking. Thanks though for your overly reactive and unnecessarily sarcastic remark.

[crucial bbq]

A company can't survive being an OS provider and a handset maker in the present day. It's the way the industry is going. Apple is going to fall flat on their face and will realise the hard way in a few years or maybe sooner.

I doubt this.

I heard recently that Samsung was not going to continue working on Tizen... there must have been a meeting where Google told Samsung "we're getting out of the handset business so you can go all-in on Android".

The whole point of Tizen, or something similar, was for Samsung to have their own app store, in exactly the same way Amazon has their own app store and forked version of Android.

It has nothing to do with handsets.

[Superfly_FR]

Phones are not profitable unless you charge an arm and a leg for them like BlackBerry used to and like how Apple does now. Alternatively, sell LOTS of phones, which Samsung does now.

Google isnt trying to make money by selling phones, they make their money through advertising and their other services. They only wanted Motorola for their patents.

Posted via CB10

I agree. Then you have BlackBerry's Chen approach which is - if I'm reading correctly between the lines - to build low end in China Asia and high end by themselves (Europe, Mexico, ...).
This Google move is a praise to Chen's vision, IMHO. Add mine, BTW

[Oscar_E]

i have not seen one yet ! so i don't think they were like doing sooo well

[billbsb]

Wow ... $9,59 billion dollars difference ... this is quite intimidating numbers ... I think BlackBerry should worry more and stop following and start leading like it did years ago.

[Superfly_FR]

Google redeemed Motorola for $ 12.5 billion .
Today it sells to Lenovo for under $ 3 billion.
And everyone gloat .

Well ...
Google has :
- pumped cash found in boxes from Motorola ( $ 2.9 billion ) ,
- sold its division decoders (2.24 billion ) and kept most of the patents manufacturer of mobile ... valued at +/- $ 5.5 billion .

2.9 + 2.24 + 80 % (the share kept by Google) of 5.5 = 9.54 billion + 3 billion transfer price = 12.5 billion
Google does not lose money.
More:
For 22 months , Google has " benefited from lab scale to refine Android" and was able to intimately understand the needs of its OEM customers .
See the trick?

And finally :
Drained, Motorola became cumbersome to Google who struggled to convince the other handset manufacturers using Android as that the OEM subsidiary of the group did not benefit from preferential treatment.
He has sold , returning , spectacularly , favors of its customers (starting with the global leader , Samsung ) .

Mountain View "artists", if you ask me.

Source : This is an approximate translation of the daily - and excellent - French Time To sign Off Newsletter, probably available for a country near you

[aha]

Another proof that Asian electronics hardware makers are making hardware business tougher and tougher to make money from. North America will have to figure out something new soon because the software business will be following the trend too.

[garnok]

Another proof that Asian electronics hardware makers are making hardware business tougher and tougher to make money from. North America will have to figure out something new soon because the software business will be following the trend too.

it already did.....android ,free OS have almost 80% market share, microsoft and BlackBerry fail to sell license their OS ....most popular apps in android, appstore majority is free apps or freemium apps . google, Waze make it more difficult for Navigation services company by offering their customer free software navigation

[garnok]

Google redeemed Motorola for $ 12.5 billion .
Today it sells to Lenovo for under $ 3 billion.
And everyone gloat .

Well ...
Google has :
- pumped cash found in boxes from Motorola ( $ 2.9 billion ) ,
- sold its division decoders (2.24 billion ) and kept most of the patents manufacturer of mobile ... valued at +/- $ 5.5 billion .

2.9 + 2.24 + 80 % (the share kept by Google) of 5.5 = 9.54 billion + 3 billion transfer price = 12.5 billion
Google does not lose money.
More:
For 22 months , Google has " benefited from lab scale to refine Android" and was able to intimately understand the needs of its OEM customers .
See the trick?

And finally :
Drained, Motorola became cumbersome to Google who struggled to convince the other handset manufacturers using Android as that the OEM subsidiary of the group did not benefit from preferential treatment.
He has sold , returning , spectacularly , favors of its customers (starting with the global leader , Samsung ) .

Mountain View "artists", if you ask me.

Source : This is an approximate translation of the daily - and excellent - French Time To sign Off Newsletter, probably available for a country near you

yup it is almost samething when a company buy another company, after they take what necessary for them, they completely shut it down, put it out of business...

google only want patents, motorola R&D (correct me if i'm wrong)...google need motorola patent to fight against apple/microsoft nortel patent, and to push / as a backup plan if samsung make completely make their own version of android (like kindle fire)...

now they keep the patent, Samsung already sign long time agreement with google, and selling the rest motorola company to lenovo one of the largest android smartphone maker deal that make lenovo become bigger company

[NaijaBerry]

Google to kill Nexus range in 2015: Report - TOI Mobile | The Times of India Mobile Site

Let's see how well the "Google Experience" sells when one has to shell out $500 for it.

I see no reason why they should stop the Nexus range since they don't manufacture them anyway, still remains a win-win situation for LG and Google really......

[raino]

I see no reason why they should stop the Nexus range since they don't manufacture them anyway, still remains a win-win situation for LG and Google really......

They do subsidize them. Someone might pay $349 for one, but I doubt LG sells that phone to Google for $349.

[Superfly_FR]

[...] BlackBerry fail to sell license their OS [...]

They never even considered it, can't be a fail

[sentimentGX4]

They never even considered it, can't be a fail

Blackberry considered licensing its OS numerous times. It continuously reiterated the possibility with its numerous "strategic alternatives" announcements.

Now we do not know the specifics of the depth of consideration or the nature of the negotiations if there were any; but, similar to how Blackberry failed to find itself a buyer, it is not unfair to speculate that it failed to find itself a licensee. (Especially considering the lack of advantage in addition to the numerous disadvantages of using BB10 OS vs. Android.)

its funny how Lenovo is being sneered at and their products trash talked now that they bought something from Google but people were talking them up and saying theyre a great, strong company when it was rumoured Lenovo was in talks to buy BlackBerry last year and then talked up again later before we got the $1b investment instead as a possible candidate to rally behind when BlackBerry was offering itself up for sale

No, no, no... Even when it was rumored that Lenovo was purchasing Blackberry, only some Crackberry fans were praising the quality of its products. Others were saying they would never buy a Lenovo Blackberry and there were still some which thought they made mediocre quality products. I'm pretty big in pointing out hypocritical Crackberry user 180s in stances; but, Lenovo's quality is not one of them.

Lenovo's not a bad firm but it's not a good firm either. It's definitely nowhere near IBM-era Thinkpad quality, though. IBM sold like Apple-tier products. Lenovo doesn't even touch Sony. Again, some people on Crackberry liked Lenovo and some people didn't. This is in contrast to Sony, which I think everyone liked.

[CBCListener]

...Lenovo on the other hand gets one of the most recognizable brands out there, don't be surprised if Motorola moves into computers.

Yeah - recognisable for the dreck they sell with the provenance, but not the quality, of IBM. Some 5 years ago my wife and I bought Lenovo Y55-something-or-other laptops, and a friend of my son's bought another one. In less than a year two out of the three had failed motherboards. Warranteed, fortunately, but I'll never buy another Lenovo product again. Made in China, indeed.

[Superfly_FR]

Blackberry considered licensing its OS numerous times. It continuously reiterated the possibility with its numerous "strategic alternatives" announcements

I'm sorry but I've never read that from any official BlackBerry, unless I have selective memory (could be ?)
The most extended reflexion (not even a statement beside a "everything is possible" e.g "wind blow") I've read about this is a possible partnership with a device builder, but licensing ... no, I'm not aware of anything like that.

Could you point to any BB material about this ?

[JR A]

I hope they keep quality to a high standard and not cut costs like they did to the ThinkPad. I doubt it though.

[Omnitech]

They do subsidize them. Someone might pay $349 for one, but I doubt LG sells that phone to Google for $349.

In some countries that is called "dumping" and is against the law.

The USA is one of those countries.

Lenovo's not a bad firm but it's not a good firm either. It's definitely nowhere near IBM-era Thinkpad quality, though. IBM sold like Apple-tier products. Lenovo doesn't even touch Sony. Again, some people on Crackberry liked Lenovo and some people didn't. This is in contrast to Sony, which I think everyone liked.

Disagree strongly about Lenovo quality. Lenovo makes a broad range of products, as I explained earlier. $300 laptops are never going to be "tanks". IBM never made a $300 laptop. False analogy.

Re: "everyone likes Sony"....

Yeah - recognisable for the dreck they sell with the provenance, but not the quality, of IBM. Some 5 years ago my wife and I bought Lenovo Y55-something-or-other laptops, and a friend of my son's bought another one. In less than a year two out of the three had failed motherboards. Warranteed, fortunately, but I'll never buy another Lenovo product again. Made in China, indeed.

See above.

And the majority of the world's top name brand premium products now have at least part of their production in China. Did you just wake up from a sleep starting in 1985?

[Omnitech]

I'm sorry but I've never read that from any official BlackBerry, unless I have selective memory (could be ?)
The most extended reflexion (not even a statement beside a "everything is possible" e.g "wind blow") I've read about this is a possible partnership with a device builder, but licensing ... no, I'm not aware of anything like that.

Could you point to any BB material about this ?

Thorsten Heins has been quoted as stating that he was open to licensing BB10.

[raino]

In some countries that is called "dumping" and is against the law.

Interesting idea. I'm not sure I understand how this is dumping. There's only one manufacturer of the Nexus 5 (LG,) who sells the phone to Google (and carriers--separately) at whatever price LG wants. Then Google sells these phones practically at a loss, recouping money the way you and I know they do.

I guess Google does compete with the carriers though, and most of the time undercuts them on the Nexus' price. But isn't that undercutting another seller (like, say, Amazon does to Best Buy,) which is okay under the eyes of the law? I haven't heard of carriers pursuing legal action against Google Play Store for this...

[garnok]

I'm sorry but I've never read that from any official BlackBerry, unless I have selective memory (could be ?)
The most extended reflexion (not even a statement beside a "everything is possible" e.g "wind blow") I've read about this is a possible partnership with a device builder, but licensing ... no, I'm not aware of anything like that.

Could you point to any BB material about this ?

Thorsten Heins has been quoted as stating that he was open to licensing BB10.

thor have mention it several times :

Thorsten Heins: "To deliver BB10 we may need to look at licensing it to someone" | CrackBerry.com

RIM Still Open to Licensing BlackBerry 10 - John Paczkowski - Mobile - AllThingsD

yes BB are fail to find large smartphone vendor willing to pay BB to use BB10 OS

[garnok]

Interesting idea. I'm not sure I understand how this is dumping. There's only one manufacturer of the Nexus 5 (LG,) who sells the phone to Google (and carriers--separately) at whatever price LG wants. Then Google sells these phones practically at a loss, recouping money the way you and I know they do.

I guess Google does compete with the carriers though, and most of the time undercuts them on the Nexus' price. But isn't that undercutting another seller (like, say, Amazon does to Best Buy,) which is okay under the eyes of the law? I haven't heard of carriers pursuing legal action against Google Play Store for this...

i dont think Google sell it for a loss.....many China phone companies can sell same high end specs with lower price than nexus 5...besides many phone companies like apple, Samsung sell their phone twice or triple their total cost..that is why they are a very rich companies with lot of cash

i think Google and LG only take a very tiny profit margin...maybe i'm wrong but i heard Apple and Samsung have 30-45% profit margin per phone, LG and google can easily take 2-5% profit margin just to make their marketshare larger and boost their brand recognition

[Omnitech]

I guess Google does compete with the carriers though, and most of the time undercuts them on the Nexus' price. But isn't that undercutting another seller (like, say, Amazon does to Best Buy,) which is okay under the eyes of the law? I haven't heard of carriers pursuing legal action against Google Play Store for this...

Probably because Google is legally untouchable in the USA for all practical purposes.

The USA has initiated MANY international trade disputes over companies reputedly selling items below the cost of production in the USA. RAM chips, flat panel displays consumer electronic products, etc etc.

The idea is that a deep-pocketed company like ie Samsung can sell items at a loss until they put all significant competition out of business, then essentially create a monopoly for themselves and do whatever they want (including raising the price to exorbitant levels) once there is no more significant competition.

But obviously what is good for the Goose is often not expected of the Gander.