05-26-16 03:52 PM
31 12
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  1. anon(55900)'s Avatar
    Forgetting about all the security 'built-in' to a BB phone, What about BB giving away BB10 OS to any phone manufacturer that wants to use it.

    What I'm saying is, BB user's go on about how great BB10 OS is (and I agree). So to prove that to the world, do what Google did and give away the OS to any phone maker that wishes to use it, and without requiring the phone itself be security designed from the inside???

    Samsung was at one time supposed to be looking at another OS other than Android. A company like Samsung could afford to a non-secure phone with BB10 on it at a lower cost and also sell a handset built from the inside to mimic a secured BB handset. Then BB could become a software company, Samsung doesn't care what OS is on a phone, they make their money Selling phones!

    Question; In the phone business, is BB making any money off the OS system itself? or just in selling handsets?? Could BB collect and sell truly pure meta data (do they already) (is that the correct term for data that doesn't contain personal names and other highly personal data) for the OS even if it's on a Samsung? The market loves any data that it could collect, then the powers that be would finally support BB.
    05-25-16 07:01 AM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Forgetting about all the security 'built-in' to a BB phone, What about BB giving away BB10 OS to any phone manufacturer that wants to use it.

    What I'm saying is, BB user's go on about how great BB10 OS is (and I agree). So to prove that to the world, do what Google did and give away the OS to any phone maker that wishes to use it, and without requiring the phone itself be security designed from the inside???

    Samsung was at one time supposed to be looking at another OS other than Android. A company like Samsung could afford to a non-secure phone with BB10 on it at a lower cost and also sell a handset built from the inside to mimic a secured BB handset. Then BB could become a software company, Samsung doesn't care what OS is on a phone, they make their money Selling phones!

    Question; In the phone business, is BB making any money off the OS system itself? or just in selling handsets?? Could BB collect and sell truly pure meta data (do they already) (is that the correct term for data that doesn't contain personal names and other highly personal data) for the OS even if it's on a Samsung? The market loves any data that it could collect, then the powers that be would finally support BB.
    BlackBerry hasn't made a profit on BB10 at all....

    In Theory, yes they should have been able to make money on the ecosystem.... movies, music, books, app without ever selling a device. But that would require a large enough userbase to first cover the cost of BB10 development. That never happened.

    At this point, BlackBerry has proved beyond a doubt that BB10 is not a viable "platform" as a mobile device OS. If and OEM were wanting something other than Android, they could get Windows for free....
    05-25-16 07:15 AM
  3. Jack Chin's Avatar
    From the company's standpoint, does BB10 retain any asset value going forward? That is, does it contain any saleable aspect, or any properties that may be capitalized upon by BlackBerry in the Android environment?

    Posted via CB10
    05-25-16 08:52 AM
  4. Soulstream's Avatar
    The big problem with BB10 is the Android runtime inside it. From evidence so far, Android OEMs are not allowed to build devices with forked Android code inside the OS. We have a precedent in Googler vs Acer: Google: Acer Can't Work On "Non-Compatible Android" & Be Part Of Open Handset Alliance

    In the end Google won and Acer backed out trying to develop its own OS with some Android code inside it. So the evidence suggests no OEM that also builds Android phones cannot also build BB10 phones. And since almost everyone builds Android phones, then almost nobody can take BB10.
    Nobody is going to risk its Android phone business for an OS that BB itself failed at giving it traction for 3 years.
    05-25-16 09:04 AM
  5. thurask's Avatar
    They tried licensing BB10 already. The only manufacturer that bit was Lenovo, but the Canadian government didn't feel comfortable with BlackBerry selling to the Chinese.
    05-25-16 09:05 AM
  6. app_Developer's Avatar
    From the company's standpoint, does BB10 retain any asset value going forward? That is, does it contain any saleable aspect, or any properties that may be capitalized upon by BlackBerry in the Android environment?
    There is the IP. There are some number of patents that came from BB10 development. In a potential sale or licensing deal, someone would have to go through those in detail and assess what those are worth.

    The problem with monetizing BB10 like Android is that Google was already a massive advertising company. Android was acquired and then distributed for free to protect the ad business. (Otherwise the risk was that Google would have been dependent on Apple and others for access to customers. Now with Android everywhere, Google has what they want/need, which is direct access to most of the smartphone customers of the world for free)

    BB is not that type of company. So it's hard to imagine how they would benefit from licensing BB10 for free. I also doubt any manufacturer would take them up on the offer anyway.
    05-25-16 09:12 AM
  7. Jack Chin's Avatar
    BB is not that type of company. So it's hard to imagine how they would benefit from licensing BB10 for free. I also doubt any manufacturer would take them up on the offer anyway.
    Yeah, your entire post tracks with my take on the subject. I don't see much avenue to monetize it.



    Posted via CB10
    05-25-16 09:25 AM
  8. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    They really can't give it away without giving away QNX code - which at the end of the day may be the last item of the portfolio generating profit.

    At one time Lenovo considered licensing BB10, but why anyone would do so now is inconceivable. Plus, as already pointed out, the deal was squashed by the government.
    05-25-16 09:31 AM
  9. JulesDB's Avatar
    They could sell budget phones with BlackBerry10, for all the people that need a good phone, some good app but they don't need the latest specs...

    BlackBerry the firm could win Africa and emerging countries with a BlackBerry10 budget phone...



    Posted via CB10
    05-25-16 12:23 PM
  10. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    They could sell budget phones with BlackBerry10, for all the people that need a good phone, some good app but they don't need the latest specs...

    BlackBerry the firm could win Africa and emerging countries with a BlackBerry10 budget phone...



    Posted via CB10
    Didn't BlackBerry already try this via the Z3 and Leap?

    *A3-A20
    TgeekB likes this.
    05-25-16 12:55 PM
  11. Jack Chin's Avatar
    They could sell budget phones with BlackBerry10, for all the people that need a good phone, some good app but they don't need the latest specs...

    BlackBerry the firm could win Africa and emerging countries with a BlackBerry10 budget phone...
    Android has that covered. Basically, BlackBerry was already pursuing that strategy with legacy BBOS devices, to dwindling sales.

    And Samsung is pursuing that strategy with Tizen, with limited success, though they have the resources to play around with a dubious strategy, unlike BB.

    Posted via CB10
    05-25-16 12:57 PM
  12. Ment's Avatar
    They could sell budget phones with BlackBerry10, for all the people that need a good phone, some good app but they don't need the latest specs...

    BlackBerry the firm could win Africa and emerging countries with a BlackBerry10 budget phone...



    Posted via CB10
    Sad you don't know what phones are already out there for Android that cheap but have good specs. For example list of phones recommended in India for $150 . Best Android Smartphones Under 10,000 Rs in India May 2016

    Even if you're poor and can only afford an upgrade from a feature phone you'll be looking at phones that have Leap specs for $75 Best Phone under 5000 Rs in India for May 2016

    Consumers in developing countries don't have to make that choice anymore of cheap but gimped or expensive and capable.
    05-25-16 01:09 PM
  13. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    They could sell budget phones with BlackBerry10, for all the people that need a good phone, some good app but they don't need the latest specs...
    No, they can't.

    BB10 is built on top of a foundation of QNX, much like Android is built on a foundation of Linux, iOS (and OSX) on a foundation of BSD, and WinPhone on Windows. But component manufacturers only include drivers for the products for Linux, because for most, 99+% of the manufacturers are going to be building Android phones with those components. Obviously the specific suppliers who supply Apple likely tweak the Linux drivers or provide the source code to Apple, and Microsoft has no trouble paying for Windows drivers for the components they support (which are limited to a specific, periodically updated list of components).

    But BB has to pay for QNX-based drivers to be written for all of the components in their phones: SoC, GPU, GPS, Camera, accelerometer, USB, proximity sensor, etc. etc. The cost for these drivers is high, because, frankly, the component manufacturers can dictate their prices and there isn't a ton of competition with free capacity to leverage the prices down. This is why BB kept building phones with the same S4 Plus SoC and same cameras and sensors (Z10, Q10, Q5, Leap, Classic) - they'd already paid for the drivers for all of those components and needed to maximize their usage of those drivers.

    But the S4 Plus and the RAM module it was designed to work with are now obsolete - no longer manufactured by anyone - so BB can't make anymore phones with those components at ANY price.

    Sure, they could make phones with Passport components, but even those are aging quickly and will be discontinued before too long if they haven't already.

    The other option is to pay for a new set of drivers for a new set of components - but given the very low number of phones BB is selling these days - around half a million phones per quarter, with a big chunk of that being Android, it might well mean that the cost for just the drivers for a new BB10 phone would be $80-100 per phone. That's not the cost of the actual components themselves, just for the software to make them work.

    See, from the beginning, BB gambled that BB10 would be able to sell a minimum of 4-5M BB10 phones per quarter - hell, there was talk of 20M phones per quarter as being "easily realistic" back when BB10 launched - and at those volumes, driver cost might have only been $5 per phone. Still high, but manageable. But selling only 250k BB10 phones per quarter means the driver cost is so high that it's virtually impossible to make a profit even if everything else was working - and we know it isn't.

    As Ment mentioned, low-end phones are selling outright for between $75 and $150 - that's a total of hardware cost, software cost, distribution, advertising, and profit. There's no way BB can even remotely compete with this when their driver cost per phone alone is $75-100! It would mean that BB10 phones with similar specs would end up costing $300+, which means they won't sell.

    BB10 could only survive if they sold high-end phones at premium prices in good volumes (5M+ per quarter or more) - which Mike L really believed would happen. But that didn't happen, and so BB10 has never made a cent in profit - in fact, BB10 has resulted in an estimated loss of $9-10B for BB.

    So, no, there's no way BB10 could ever compete in the low end of the market, just based on driver cost alone - and there are several other strong reasons as well, such as the lack of apps, and the high cost of constant development and maintenance of the OS itself, which BB also almost completely ended more than a year ago. Plus, now that BB has licensed Google Mobile Services and the Play Store, they are prohibited from including the Android Runtime in any future releases of BB10, or from updating the Runtime on existing BB10 phones. So, any new BB10 phones would have no Android Runtime, which means that only 100% native BB10 apps would run - and most of those have been abandoned by their developers or never existed in the first place. Note that many apps in BB World are really converted Android apps, and won't actually run without an Android Runtime on the phone, so just existing in BB World doesn't make it a native BB10 app.
    05-25-16 06:48 PM
  14. anon(55900)'s Avatar
    This has got to be thee most rational, eye opening, sober, non argumentative thread I've ever viewed on CB. It feel's like the last of the fellowship sipping whiskey in the bar analyzing the battles at the end of the war....... Bless Yea Boys!
    web99, bbnrs, hplovecraft and 2 others like this.
    05-25-16 07:22 PM
  15. xtremeled's Avatar
    Forgetting about all the security 'built-in' to a BB phone, What about BB giving away BB10 OS to any phone manufacturer that wants to use it.

    What I'm saying is, BB user's go on about how great BB10 OS is (and I agree). So to prove that to the world, do what Google did and give away the OS to any phone maker that wishes to use it, and without requiring the phone itself be security designed from the inside???

    Samsung was at one time supposed to be looking at another OS other than Android. A company like Samsung could afford to a non-secure phone with BB10 on it at a lower cost and also sell a handset built from the inside to mimic a secured BB handset. Then BB could become a software company, Samsung doesn't care what OS is on a phone, they make their money Selling phones!

    Question; In the phone business, is BB making any money off the OS system itself? or just in selling handsets?? Could BB collect and sell truly pure meta data (do they already) (is that the correct term for data that doesn't contain personal names and other highly personal data) for the OS even if it's on a Samsung? The market loves any data that it could collect, then the powers that be would finally support BB.
    Why do so many people have a hard time accepting that BB10 is DEAD!!!!! It cant be given away, no one is developing it, no one supports it, no one builds apps for it. It's time to move on.
    JeepBB likes this.
    05-25-16 07:54 PM
  16. ljfong's Avatar
    HP did exactly this for WebOS and well...WebOS went nowhere and ended up being applicance OS of LG eventually. Even if BlackBerry were to open source and give away BB10 completely, it would change absolutely nothing in terms of mindshare but probably kept alive like "home brew" fashion by hobbyists for a long time.
    05-26-16 10:53 AM
  17. ohaiguise's Avatar
    BB10 has resulted in an estimated loss of $9-10B for BB


    Holy smokes.
    05-26-16 11:04 AM
  18. MikeX74's Avatar
    If someone wanted to license BB10, wouldn't they have asked already?
    05-26-16 11:30 AM
  19. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    BB10 has resulted in an estimated loss of $9-10B for BB


    Holy smokes.
    Source?

    Posted via CB10
    05-26-16 11:37 AM
  20. JulesDB's Avatar
    BB10 has resulted in an estimated loss of $9-10B for BB


    Holy smokes.
    Please I can't really stand these all-identical comments: it all depends from the point of view.

    In a healthy company or with a vision that's called investment .

    Remember Apple? Then please again, stop it.

    Posted via CB10
    05-26-16 11:42 AM
  21. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    BlackBerry 10 does not have to be" given away". BlackBerry needs to hone the product for Enterprise and price it accordingly. The all Android device isn't the way for many corporate clients. The losses that many speak of here are paper losses and not "Real" losses.

    The platform is here and BlackBerry needs to think sensibly how best they can monetize it, be it, factoring in the hardware into the BES offerings as a package as an end to end solution or offering the wider consumer access more easily to their security offerings. The market would be truly "niche " which is a word bandied about here.

    They can continue to build their Android devices but aim that at a price point that's budget minded, where growth in that segment is growing.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by crackbrry fan; 05-26-16 at 12:00 PM.
    JulesDB likes this.
    05-26-16 11:50 AM
  22. JulesDB's Avatar
    Anyway BlackBerry10 as a corporate solution couldn't survive with the end of Whatsapp's support for december...

    A lot of companies rely on that messenger for daily communication between collegues.

    Posted via CB10
    05-26-16 12:00 PM
  23. Uzi's Avatar
    Anyway BlackBerry10 as a corporate solution couldn't survive with the end of Whatsapp's support for december...

    A lot of companies rely on that messenger for daily communication between collegues.

    Posted via CB10
    No we don't need app, tools not toys #bb10 ftw
    thurask likes this.
    05-26-16 12:03 PM
  24. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    Anyway BlackBerry10 as a corporate solution couldn't survive with the end of Whatsapp's support for december...

    A lot of companies rely on that messenger for daily communication between collegues.

    Posted via CB10
    Not true we for example don't use whatsapp, BBM protect is what is used.

    Posted via CB10
    05-26-16 12:04 PM
  25. SK122387's Avatar
    I honestly don't know who would want it at this point. If BlackBerry couldn't turn their own OS into a semi-successful alternative to iOS and Android, I'm pretty sure no other manufacturer could either.



    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    05-26-16 12:04 PM
31 12

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