[chain13]

Isnt it a bit more advanced than run of the mill antivirus software?

I don't know. But my point is that their android apps (either cylance, Hub+, or BBMe) are not gonna make a lot of money in android worlds. Antivirus is no longer useful since google release patch every months. Hub+ apps are pretty much a bunch of basic apps (we can use cobalt's work for free). And BBMe, who is still using bbm these day (ever enterprise)?

[Emaderton3]

I don't know. But my point is that their android apps (either cylance, Hub+, or BBMe) are not gonna make a lot of money in android worlds. Antivirus is no longer useful since google release patch every months. Hub+ apps are pretty much a bunch of basic apps (we can use cobalt's work for free). And BBMe, who is still using bbm these day (ever enterprise)?

It's not just for Android devices. I think it can act at a network level, and it is based on AI learning if I remember correctly.

[bb10adopter111]

Given a choice of being a niche player in the Android hardware business (declining growth and margins) and a leading player in the AI cybersecurity space (accelerating growth and margins) which would you pick?

I have no idea if Cylance will sustain it's growth, but I know for certain that BlackBerry had zero chance of success in its legacy phone markets.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[chain13]

I have no idea if Cylance will sustain it's growth, but I know for certain that BlackBerry had zero chance of success in its legacy phone markets.

It won't

[bb10adopter111]

It won't

BlackBerry Cylance has a 4.6/5 rating from Enterprise Information Security Leaders in Gartner Peer Insights. A recent CISO I spoke with told me that he deployed it on 35,000 endpoints without incident and was able to redeploy three full-time engineers who used to handle malware incident response and forensics because they had fewer incidents. So, he's saving approximately $450,000 a year.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[chain13]

BlackBerry Cylance has a 4.6/5 rating from Enterprise Information Security Leaders in Gartner Peer Insights. A recent CISO I spoke with told me that he deployed it on 35,000 endpoints without incident and was able to redeploy three full-time engineers who used to handle malware incident response and forensics because they had fewer incidents. So, he's saving approximately $450,000 a year.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

Good. So when the app finally reach consumer, it will be money maker for blackberry. Though I hardly believe that.

[app_Developer]

Good. So when the app finally reach consumer, it will be money maker for blackberry. Though I hardly believe that.

I think trying to bring Cylance to Android is a distraction. BB has a history of taking on distractions. They really need to learn to say no internally more often.

Cylance has an EDR offering now. If they can combine EPP and EDR and sell that as a single platform into large scale infrastructure, they can be what saves BB.

But they have to do it.

[bb10adopter111]

Good. So when the app finally reach consumer, it will be money maker for blackberry. Though I hardly believe that.

Wow. So you really think that's where the money is? The money is in enterprise cybersecurity, not consumer.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[Emaderton3]

Wow. So you really think that's where the money is? The money is in enterprise cybersecurity, not consumer.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

I don't think the functionality of this BlackBerry software is really being appreciated in this thread. It's not just some off the shelf antivirus app. You seem to be much more in the know. Perhaps give us a snapshot of what it really does.

[bb10adopter111]

I don't think the functionality of this BlackBerry software is really being appreciated in this thread. It's not just some off the shelf antivirus app. You seem to be much more in the know. Perhaps give us a snapshot of what it really does.

It's simple. Traditional antivirus looks for malware signatures based on a database of code. AI antivirus looks for novel behavior in the network and can identify suspicious behavior even with malware that's never been seen before. Cylance was the pioneer start-up in that space and was expected to go public for over a billion dollars, but BlackBerry bought them first in a private transaction.

In studies, traditional antivirus solutions can identify and stop about 2/3 of attacks, while Cylance's solution stops over 99%.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[conite]

I don't know. But my point is that their android apps (either cylance, Hub+, or BBMe) are not gonna make a lot of money in android worlds. Antivirus is no longer useful since google release patch every months. Hub+ apps are pretty much a bunch of basic apps (we can use cobalt's work for free). And BBMe, who is still using bbm these day (ever enterprise)?

That's not where Cylance's main efforts are being directed.

I think BlackBerry is just spraying the name to build brand recognition.

[bb10adopter111]

The problem with traditional antivirus is that AI is now being used by the bad guys to constantly alter the malware signatures. (like the way the Borg in Star Trek keep adjusting to phaser frequencies). They morph so fast that they can escape traditional detection.

AI-based antivirus look for behavior, not code signatures.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[app_Developer]

It's simple. Traditional antivirus looks for malware signatures based on a database of code. AI antivirus looks for novel behavior in the network and can identify suspicious behavior even with malware that's never been seen before. Cylance was the pioneer start-up in that space and was expected to go public for over a billion dollars, but BlackBerry bought them first in a private transaction.

In studies, traditional antivirus solutions can identify and stop about 2/3 of attacks, while Cylance's solution stops over 99%.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

I would differ on a couple of points: Cylance built themselves on models that classify malicious code through static analysis. That was their bread and butter. They could detect morphing code, but it was still by looking at the binaries. That’s why/how it was sometimes spoofed by binaries loaded with text from known good apps, for example.

The dynamic piece (analyzing actual runtime behaviour) is new to Cylance. They were behind on that side compared to others. But they are catching up.

They are also catching up on remediation. But it seems this year they have a good package of all of this. Now they have to sell it.

[idssteve]

Wow. So you really think that's where the money is? The money is in enterprise cybersecurity, not consumer.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

BB was never ever successfully "consumer" oriented. They just never learned how to succeed in that space. Software or hardware. Enterprise is where they grew from. It's what they know. BB really should've stuck with what they really knew all along, imo.

Yes, Paccar will never outsell Toyota. But Paccar at least embraced their commercial niche and mostly stayed out of Toyota's space. Hard to argue Paccar isn't happy enough with THEIR "level of survival"...

[bb10adopter111]

I would differ on a couple of points: Cylance built themselves on models that classify malicious code through static analysis. That was their bread and butter.

The dynamic piece (analyzing actual runtime behaviour) is new to Cylance. They were behind on that side compared to others. But they are catching up.

Well, they started with machine learning on static data, but That was simply son they could build they always intended to build their minimum viable product (MVP) and develop their approach. The were always moving towards an AI approach, which is why they set the market for cyber startups on fire, raising $15M in 2013 and six years later selling to BlackBerry for $1.4 Billion.

The challenge now is that no one knows what the future of cybersecurity looks like from an architecture perspective. For homogeneous cloud networks like Microsoft or Amazon or Google cloud each provider can likely provide a great AI solution like what Cylance offers, but that won't be sufficient for most large enterprises who will use many, many different services that are all constantly scaling and reconfiguring themselves.

No one has figured out the optimum security scheme for the next ten years, and changes will come in fits and starts.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[app_Developer]

Well, they started with machine learning on static data, but That was simply son they could build they always intended to build their minimum viable product (MVP) and develop their approach. The were always moving towards an AI approach, which is why they set the market for cyber startups on fire, raising $15M in 2013 and six years later selling to BlackBerry for $1.4 Billion.

The challenge now is that no one knows what the future of cybersecurity looks like from an architecture perspective. For homogeneous cloud networks like Microsoft or Amazon or Google cloud each provider can likely provide a great AI solution like what Cylance offers, but that won't be sufficient for most large enterprises who will use many, many different services that are all constantly scaling and reconfiguring themselves.

No one has figured out the optimum security scheme for the next ten years, and changes will come in fits and starts.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

Yep, and it’s a highly competitive market right now. Many more startups in this space, and some huge players now. In our own testing where I work, we find Amazon’s ML driven threat detection models to be more effective than Cylance, but to your point, that only works on AWS, it doesn’t (yet) really encompass CWP, etc. It’s still very early.

[Troy Tiscareno]

As has been mentioned, Cylance isn't focused on consumers - their focus is on securing medium and large business networks from malware. Imagine that 10% of companies in the western world with more than 100 employees was using Cylance, paying a monthly or annual fee - THAT is what BB is looking for, as it's exactly how they built the company in the first place, using ongoing monthly revenues from BIS and BES to become a multi-billion-dollar company.

Many people don't realize that BB *never* made any significant money selling smartphones - on balance, it wasn't much better than break-even for them most of the time. The real money came from those on-going monthly SAFs (Service Access Fees) from BIS and BES. And while I think that BB *could* have made money on their smartphones in their heyday, a lot of the profit was lost due to overproduction (leading to write-downs on excess inventory) and overall mediocre supply chain management. Even then, though, margins would have been small.

And that's the real reason why Mike was so unprepared for any future that left BBOS - and the majority of BB's revenue model - behind. It's why he tried desperately to keep carriers from rolling out 3G and then 4G - he knew it would eliminate the need for BIS (with BIS actually slowing the throughput on 3G already) and that BB couldn't really survive on phone sales alone. That was why he needed an entire ecosystem that BB controlled - to provide other sources of revenue. Unfortunately, he was years late in planning for this future, and it steamrolled him.

Many people here denigrate Chen because the smartphone business failed, but it failed on Heins' watch and Heins really had little choice but to finish the BB10 rollout that Mike had already committed RIM/BBL to. Chen could see that smartphones were going to hit the ground - he just needed to give them a soft landing, burn through all of the purchase commitments he inherited, and buy time to pivot to other ventures, all of which he's done pretty successfully. The jury is still out on whether Cylance and QNX's work in automotive and IoT will pay off big, but BB could easily have gone bankrupt several years ago.

Few here care about QNX or Cylance - this is a smartphone forum after all - but from a business/investor point of view, Chen has done great so far, and there's reason to hope the company will stick around and experience real growth. We'll have to wait and see...

[chain13]

Wow. So you really think that's where the money is? The money is in enterprise cybersecurity, not consumer.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

Nope. In the first place, the cylance I am refering is the android antivirus app that still in beta now. I don't think it's gonna be money maker from that app alone (even combine with all the appsuites and bbme). I don't really care about enterprise market, it's not gonna reach any consumers directly. Even if they make much profits out of it, they're not gonna spend that profits to re-life blackberry consumer devices.

[app_Developer]

Nope. In the first place, the cylance I am refering is the android antivirus app that still in beta now. I don't think it's gonna be money maker from that app alone (even combine with all the appsuites and bbme). I don't really care about enterprise market, it's not gonna be reach any consumers directly. Even if they make much profits out of it, they're not gonna spend that profits to re-life blackberry consumer devices.

Cylance for Android won’t make money.

What’s worse, though, is that it won’t be effective without deep integration into the OS. As an app, it simply can’t see enough to be useful.

BB really should kill the idea and focus, focus, focus on enterprise infrastructure. I know that isn’t of interest to a lot of folks here. That’s fair. But it’s extremely important to shareholders.

[chain13]

Cylance for Android won’t make money.

What’s worse, though, is that it won’t be effective without deep integration into the OS. As an app, it simply can’t see enough to be useful.

BB really should kill the idea and focus, focus, focus on enterprise infrastructure. I know that isn’t of interest to a lot of folks here. That’s fair. But it’s extremely important to shareholders.

Yeah. Blackberry android or stock android itself has already implemented some core functions of EPP like encryption, anti malware, backup (dlp). Makes antivirus app becoma a joke. Also, since the "phone itself is not standalone device" anymore, securing a phone by only implementing epp isn't enough. EDP implementation in the network side is needed.

[bb10adopter111]

Nope. In the first place, the cylance I am refering is the android antivirus app that still in beta now. I don't think it's gonna be money maker from that app alone (even combine with all the appsuites and bbme). I don't really care about enterprise market, it's not gonna reach any consumers directly. Even if they make much profits out of it, they're not gonna spend that profits to re-life blackberry consumer devices.

Ah. I was referring to Cylance, the entire division., not just the beta CylancePROTECT Android app. The value of the app is that it integrates with other BlackBerry endpoint management for the enterprise market. Companies should and will pay to help prevent scripts and apps on the phone from trying to misbehave on the network.

But as a stand-alome app for consumers, I agree it's not likely to be a hit unless the threat environment changes significantly.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Cylance for Android won’t make money.

What’s worse, though, is that it won’t be effective without deep integration into the OS. As an app, it simply can’t see enough to be useful.

BB really should kill the idea and focus, focus, focus on enterprise infrastructure. I know that isn’t of interest to a lot of folks here. That’s fair. But it’s extremely important to shareholders.

Yeah but enterprise has lots of devices connected to their systems.... I'm sure the recommended deployment will be to have Cylance on ALL endpoints, even it isn't really effective on some of them.

[bb10adopter111]

Yeah but enterprise has lots of devices connected to their systems.... I'm sure the recommended deployment will be to have Cylance on ALL endpoints, even it isn't really effective on some of them.

Correct. Also, you have to define what you mean by effective. Cylance protects against a variety of threats, not just threats to the device OS. For example, if an app is compromised and starts to do atypical things in your phone, Cylance will identify the aberrant behavior. That's very valuable in an enterprise context, as many mobile-baee attacks use stolen credentials and scripts running on apps rather than "traditional" malware.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[app_Developer]

Correct. Also, you have to define what you mean by effective. Cylance protects against a variety of threats, not just threats to the device OS. For example, if an app is compromised and starts to do atypical things in your phone, Cylance will identify the aberrant behavior. That's very valuable in an enterprise context, as many mobile-baee attacks use stolen credentials and scripts running on apps rather than "traditional" malware.

I think I'm missing something still. How is Cylance going to monitor other apps on Android to even detect these anomalies?

[bb10adopter111]

I think I'm missing something still. How is Cylance going to monitor other apps on Android to even detect these anomalies?

We don't really know get. But one of the critical elements to Cylance's approach is understanding "normal" behavior and monitoring for departures from that behavior. The threat of mobile endpoints is not that the phone is compromised. It's that a compromised phone can allow malware to move laterally through a network. By establishing a baseline of how that endpoint is functioning and interacting with enterprise resources, atypical patterns that might represent a malware scan or probe for weaknesses or an attempt to escalate privileges can be spotted quickly.

By monitoring both the device and the network, Cylance can build a much more robust behavioural model.

So, for example, if I download an app in my personal space that attempts to access data in my work space, Cylance can quickly compare that behavior with other known techniques. If my credentials are compromised and a script starts scanning the network trying to impersonate me, Cylance will see it doing something that I don't typically do.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android