03-10-14 05:56 PM
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  1. AidenSurvival's Avatar
    Not sure if being sarcastic...

    So they're brainwashed if they get a BlackBerry, but not brainwashed if the sales rep told them to buy other device but not BlackBerry ?

    How do you call those stupid sales rep that force you to buy android or iOS device if the customer clearly wants to buy BlackBerry?


    Posted via CB10
    Maybe the customer tried out the devices and found the S4 to fit their needs. If they truly went in there to get a BlackBerry, they'd leave with a BlackBerry. Simple as that.
    03-10-14 12:13 PM
  2. iN8ter's Avatar
    No guarantee of the S4 getting a software upgrade 18 months after launch.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    Incorrect.

    The only Galaxy S Flagships that didn't get at least that much support were the super-carrier-customized Galaxy S devices released in 2010. Everything from the Galaxy S2 and onwards has received at least 2 years of support. The Galaxy S3 is over two years old and will get Kit Kat, even.

    Samsung supports all of their flagships for at least 2 years. 18 Months is cake and this should not be an issue if that's all you're looking for.
    TgeekB, richardat and Berry_Pink like this.
    03-10-14 12:23 PM
  3. richardat's Avatar
    When I ask someone which phone to get I have obviously no idea myself. But whatever was the particular case here, I was more generally speaking. .
    When Tgeek gently suggested about this specific case: "Or maybe they liked it best?" You answered with a defacto and specific: "Hmmmm no. Not at all. This was a matter of "Ok there....."

    And generally speaking, 90 or 95% of smartphone buyers (read: average consumers) make their purchasing decision just like that if you ask me. I have spoken to many people regarding this and I'd bet my house on this theory. So I was just responding to that "he just bought what he likes best" claim, as IMO, most people don't buy the phone they like best, but rather the phone they think they will like best.
    This of course is completely nonsensical as written. IF I were to take a guess, I think you mean "phone they think they will like best in the future". In which case, those people are to be commended - it is wise to consider this. Of course, if you meant that, it completely contradicts what you had JUST claimed about the thought processes of the "average" consumer. In any case, I would most certainly advise anyone to consider the future of the company, the product, and the support when buying a tech product - even if that consideration results in: it doesn't matter to me, or, the pros are worth any drawbacks on that front. Most of us older folk who have been into tech for a long time, have felt the bitter pain of having an orphaned tech product. If you need a recent example, you will find many testimonials here in the forums of people who felt that way in regard to the Playbook.
    03-10-14 12:27 PM
  4. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    When Tgeek gently suggested about this specific case: "Or maybe they liked it best?" You answered with a defacto and specific: "Hmmmm no. Not at all. This was a matter of "Ok there....."



    This of course is completely nonsensical as written. IF I were to take a guess, I think you mean "phone they think they will like best in the future". In which case, those people are to be commended - it is wise to consider this. Of course, if you meant that, it completely contradicts what you had JUST claimed about the thought processes of the "average" consumer. In any case, I would most certainly advise anyone to consider the future of the company, the product, and the support when buying a tech product - even if that consideration results in: it doesn't matter to me, or, the pros are worth any drawbacks on that front. Most of us older folk who have been into tech for a long time, have felt the bitter pain of having an orphaned tech product. If you need a recent example, you will find many testimonials here in the forums of people who felt that way in regard to the Playbook.
    I meant "they think they will like best because obviously (since everyone else uses it) it IS the best". I didn't mean "it will be best in the future because the company will still be around".

    From my understanding you already got this a bit too techie. I was really talking about non-techie people. People that hand me over their iPhone and say "no idea, check it yourself" when I ask them if their iPhone is running iOS7 yet. And people that respond "no, I use Facebook" when I ask them how they like the new Control Center. "Future support" and "Updates"? - "Is that something I should be concerned about?"..... People see other people carrying iPhones and Galaxy devices. People probably read how successful these companies are. People see ads from Samsung and Apple as well as retailers and carriers promoting their Apple and Samsung offerings. People simply conclude "that must be the phones to get" and just buy them, too. It's just as simple for the majority of consumers. And IF such people get talked into getting a Z30 by a friend they might wonder "why does no one else use that phone if it's that great" and do some research. And what they find is a supposedly dead company and bad reviews concluding "no apps".....
    Last edited by --TommesJay--; 03-10-14 at 01:00 PM.
    03-10-14 12:42 PM
  5. iN8ter's Avatar
    There might not even be a Z30 available for a customer to try out and compare. And extra features such as Miracast, USB to go , 25 hour battery life was probably not pointed out by sales rep.

    I kept suggesting an Android device to my daughter since she was already vested in that ecosystem but she chose the Z10 after having issues with her two MyTouch phones (one by HTC and one by Huawei) and a Samsung Galaxy tablet. She is very happy.

    Zed 10 with 1925 leak
    Those extra features aren't extra compared to the S4. They're extra compared only to Blackberry's earlier devices which they specced badly forcing them to omit feature support in them (i.e. Z10)

    The S4 has Miracast.

    The S4 doesn't have battery woes. This 25H battery life is for a niche user base, kind of like the Razr Maxx or Droid Maxx. Most people don't care as they don't have an issue getting through a day on their S4 and charge nightly, anyways.

    As for hardware and software capabilities, the S4 destroys the Z30 is almost every way outside of the Battery Size (and still, it has a 2600 mAh battery and good battery life, so it's not necessarily a slouch there :-P ).

    EDIT: The Z30 battery is only 2880 mAh, IIRC, which his barely bigger than the S4. The S4 does have more powerful hardware, so some time is shaved off there but its battery life is not weak by a long shot.
    Last edited by n8ter#AC; 03-10-14 at 01:53 PM.
    03-10-14 12:44 PM
  6. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    As for hardware and software capabilities, the S4 destroys the Z30 is almost every way outside of the Battery Size.
    *As for hardware capabilities, the S4 destroys its own display glas if you wear too tight pants
    03-10-14 01:04 PM
  7. TgeekB's Avatar
    *As for hardware capabilities, the S4 destroys its own display glas if you wear too tight pants
    That's a downfall of skinny jeans, not necessarily the phone. Lol.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    Ecm likes this.
    03-10-14 01:10 PM
  8. iN8ter's Avatar
    *As for hardware capabilities, the S4 destroys its own display glas if you wear too tight pants
    What I said is pretty spot on, not sure why you have to try to spin it with bad sarcasm.
    03-10-14 01:29 PM
  9. iN8ter's Avatar
    if its just a personal pleasure use only phone steering people off samsung or apple will be difficult if not impossible. However its a dual purpose or business only phone using an apple or samsung makes absolutely no sense. they offer few productivity features and if anything are handicapped by features they have For some 20 something kid or younger that just wants a smartphone unless you can convince they they can be unique by getting the blackberry chances are they will be brainwashed by some salesperson or friend who thought it was cool that they could play flappybird and use snapchat on it. Thats not going to be easy or simple to persuade otherwise. Thats why the whole corporate sales angle makes so much sense. Do the average CEO types want to play games and look at instagram. Possibly but not likely. They want to get things done and they want to do it quickly and hopefully with some privacy through bbm. if they make BBM the center of the OS and then work everything around it they can really make the phone super useful for business. In the article on the possibilities for blackberry and the chance to move by skype for the position of the number one business communications tool it says they can add the features necessary to make this happen. If anyone watched the george zimmerman trial you would have to laugh when they had a witness come on in the court through skype and then someone hacked into the conversation during the questioning. Is that the kind of thing you want in a courtroom? im thinking not. Its all to common with skype its an easy way for hackers to access your information as well. So there are some unique situations for blackberry i think the idea that blackberry can compete against the big boys is just not going to happen not in the consumer space at least. If they want there niche market they have to make it. Its not to say blackberry is going away its just to say they are going to pick their battles very carefully.
    Proof Please.

    Cause I know companies that run on Google Apps and their employees have no issues being productive on the Galaxy S4 devices they issue them.

    No one hacked into anyone's conversation via Skype. What happened was the user name was broadcast in plain view and people started Messaging that person on Skype. They forgot to go to Settings and set it so that they wouldn't be disturbed during the call, which his totally possible in Skype's software.

    Please, be familiar with situations before trying to spin them in this way. It's embarrassing. What you posted is nothing but FUD. What happened in that trial with Skype was the result of Negligence not anything to do with the security of the Skype Account in question.

    Assistant State Attorney Richard Mantei was using his Skype account so that the jury could see and hear testimony from Pleasants, who was unable to appear in person in the courtroom. Mantei's computer screen, showing his Skype user ID (in other words, his Skype "phone number"), was visible to the jury and to anyone else watching the televised trial.
    THAT is what happened. Hardly a "security issue."

    Reference: Skype pranksters interrupt Zimmerman witness testimony - NBC News
    03-10-14 01:37 PM
  10. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    I'll happily take that off your hands for you.
    Sorry never sell my used devices they all remain with me, Especially Android devices, I suggest a google search is in order to see why. Hint information can still be gleaned from wiped devices.

    Posted via CB10
    03-10-14 02:01 PM
  11. iN8ter's Avatar
    Sorry never sell my used devices they all remain with me, Especially Android devices, I suggest a google search is in order to see why. Hint information can still be gleaned from wiped devices.

    Posted via CB10
    That goes for any device. Anything with a storage chip - Blackberries, iPhones, Andorid, Windows Phone, Tizen, Bada, whatever... It doesn't matter. What OS the device runs has nothing to do with it, and it takes too much effort for the average person to do that, most don't even have the expertise to accomplish it.

    If you want to get rid of the device, Encrypt it and throw it in the trash. That's not hard. No use keeping a bunch of old phones sitting in a drawer because you're paranoid that someone is going to try to get some info off the storage in them...

    I'm not sure what the "especially" is for given all companies collect data and they usually do it for themselves, not simply to sit on your device storage and serve no purpose...
    03-10-14 02:24 PM
  12. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    That goes for any device. Anything with a storage chip - Blackberries, iPhones, Andorid, Windows Phone, Tizen, Bada, whatever... It doesn't matter. What OS the device runs has nothing to do with it, and it takes too much effort for the average person to do that, most don't even have the expertise to accomplish it.

    If you want to get rid of the device, Encrypt it and throw it in the trash. That's not hard. No use keeping a bunch of old phones sitting in a drawer because you're paranoid that someone is going to try to get some info off the storage in them...

    I'm not sure what the "especially" is for given all companies collect data and they usually do it for themselves, not simply to sit on your device storage and serve no purpose...
    Please educate yourself Androids are even more susceptible, as you see I DON'T part with ANY device,

    Posted via CB10
    03-10-14 02:29 PM
  13. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    That goes for any device. Anything with a storage chip - Blackberries, iPhones, Andorid, Windows Phone, Tizen, Bada, whatever... It doesn't matter. What OS the device runs has nothing to do with it, and it takes too much effort for the average person to do that, most don't even have the expertise to accomplish it.

    If you want to get rid of the device, Encrypt it and throw it in the trash. That's not hard. No use keeping a bunch of old phones sitting in a drawer because you're paranoid that someone is going to try to get some info off the storage in them...

    I'm not sure what the "especially" is for given all companies collect data and they usually do it for themselves, not simply to sit on your device storage and serve no purpose...
    Dude we got it like 6 months ago: you're our very personal Galaxy S evangelist on this site and we're all grateful that you keep reminding us how awesome Samsung devices are and that there's obviously no point in using a BB10 device whatsoever. Thank you so much.

    I'm going to buy a Galaxy S5 right tomorrow and I dare you if it isn't a 1,000 times better than my Z10, I'm gonna take a flight to the US and stick the phone down your throat (kidding here, no serious threat) :-P
    03-10-14 02:32 PM
  14. early2bed's Avatar
    If a friend texted me for advice about what smartphone to buy then I would never assume that I was the only person that he asked and that my texted reply would seal the deal. I would imagine that most people run into a bunch of people with smartphones every day and will sometimes stop and ask a few things about the phones. Certainly, I would not assume that my friend looks at the text and knows that's what to get.
    Thud Hardsmack and 21stNow like this.
    03-10-14 02:37 PM
  15. whatsever's Avatar
    His lost. Friend on my (girl) just bought a month ago a samsung note 3 . my Z30 is quicker is multitasking but also in changing apps it's also very quick and she was last week visiting and I show her the keyboard and the Hub and the last one she like. She told me also the sound on her network is not good and also her other phone bold 9790 was much better in coverage. So she had her doubt but she like the big screen but she also find it to big but she allready use it for 5 weeks so there is no way swap it.

    She just bought it because the store guy told here that blackberry is dead and that the Note 3 was easyer to use a virtual keyboard. Also the phone had a extra discount from Samsung. I see my phone and here phone and happy I have the Z30
    03-10-14 02:55 PM
  16. iN8ter's Avatar
    Dude we got it like 6 months ago: you're our very personal Galaxy S evangelist on this site and we're all grateful that you keep reminding us how awesome Samsung devices are and that there's obviously no point in using a BB10 device whatsoever. Thank you so much.

    I'm going to buy a Galaxy S5 right tomorrow and I dare you if it isn't a 1,000 times better than my Z10, I'm gonna take a flight to the US and stick the phone down your throat (kidding here, no serious threat) :-P
    Hardly.

    The S5 is better than the Z10 in every way though.

    To be frank, no, there isn't much point in using a BB device when other devices offer better hardware and more innovative software features and services running on the device. Preferences is what allow us to choose what device we want despite shortcomings. I wish the Note wasn't as big as it is, but that is a *compromise* I had to make to take advantage of the great hardware and software features that device provides.

    There is no category where Blackberry is so superior to the competition (or, in many, even on par with the competition) that any purchaser in the consumer market would make it a point to choose it over the other platforms. Most people who choose Blackberry do so because they have loyalty to the brand or they require one (as there are situations where one may be needed, or even required).

    The preferences of one user does not automatically equate to superiority of one device or platform as another. We look to market forces and user choice and usage patterns as a whole to arrive at those types of conclusions, and in many cases they are still shaky from a scientific point of view.

    The only things we can judge, are those objective measures - and Blackberry is very weak in most of them. Their devices simply aren't measuring up to what others are offering in today's smartphone market, and that's a big deal because it gives them very little marketing flexibility (even if they put a billion into marketing, what would they market... waste 500M on Hub and BBM commercials?).

    I do not evangelize Samsung products on this forum. However, I do often contrast Blackberry devices against them and I do rationalize my opinions and choices based on my personal needs from a smart device - just like everyone else. The only difference is my end result is not your preference, which is your personal problem to deal with.
    03-10-14 03:39 PM
  17. iN8ter's Avatar
    Everyone wants to argue, but no one wants to offer solutions.

    They need better hardware, period.

    A 1080p Screen is overdue. THe Z30 should have had at least that.
    Better Camera Sensor and Hardware is overdue.
    Better SoC is overdue. They should have used the S600 in the Z30.
    They probably should have gone to 3GB RAM since RAM seems to be a bit of a bottleneck for them in BB10.

    They do need to work on their software as well. Their media player software can use some improvements to at least bring them up to par with what a Galaxy S3 offers for capabilities.

    Camera Software can use an improvement. I thought there was 60FPS recording remnants in a leak or something. Why haven't they added that in an update. If they launched with that, it would have been nice as heck.

    You Love BB10, great. That's fine, nothing wrong with that. Maybe another user would as well. But when they look at a Z30 next to an S4 they see a huge disparity in screen quality right off the bat. When they look at the Spec Sheet they see one being wildly better than the other, and way more future proof (Wi-Fi ac support, for example), capable, and flexible.

    You add in Blackberry's historical reputation, the crap they're going through right now, the fact that it's hard to even find one with them (Proliferation: Which some people see as an endorsement of a product) and it's an uphill battle.

    It takes a lot more effort to sell someone a BB10 that is AMAZING than it does to disuade them from buying one because of all those combined issues.

    Blackberry does need to market their devices better, but they need a better device to market. What they have on the market currently, is not decently marketable vs competing devices. The hardware isn't as capable, the software isn't mature enough, and they don't have a niche the way Microsoft does with Nokia's camera phones to help them plow through Fear, Uncertanty, and Doubt in the minds of consumers. Their phones need a selling point, and most of the stuff people mentioned in threads here have been advertised (Keyboard, Hub, etc.). Clearly that is not working.

    Apple does not advertise their clock speeds or whatever, but they market the hell out of their hardware, just like everyone else. Issue is it's hard to market something which can objectively be proven to be worse than others. The A7 is rocking benchmarks and their cameras are great. When was the last time you seen Apple market their Retina Screen outside of the new iPads?

    If Blackberry is serious about the consumer market, they need to act like it. Otherwise they shouldn't expect to sell any phones.

    I don't need to evangelize any OEM's phone here. There are entire forums dedicated to Samsung's products that pop up high in Search Results, and 1 in 4 smartphone owners in this country own Samsung devices. I couldn't care less about what some random internet personas buy in some other country, honestly. Almost everyone I know with a Galaxy S3/4 or Note 2/3 bought it on their own. They didn't ask me for advice.

    Only one person asked me for advice recently, and I did suggest the Z30 to him. He couldn't navigate the phone and it crashed multiple times on him so he wasn't about to go there. There's nothing I can do about that. He didn't get a Samsung Phone, BTW. He bought a Motorola with Specs practically equivalent to the Z30 - something I (clearly, if my posts are any indication) would not *personally* recommend anyone do or buy myself. I let him make his own choice, and I didn't cry about it because I thought he should have gotten what I was using or preferred.

    You don't use the device for them, they use it themselves. It's not in your right to feel good or bad about what someone else spends their own money on. Get over it.
    03-10-14 04:03 PM
  18. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    Very odd indeed my BlackBerry 10 devices NEVER crashed. Amazing the lengths some come here to bash. I can't say the same for the other platforms. Even BGR can't deny the obvious.

    http://bgr.com/tag/blackberry-10/


    Posted via CB10
    MADBRADNYC likes this.
    03-10-14 04:09 PM
  19. bakron1's Avatar
    I have a Blackberry z10 and a z30 and i preach the brand here all the time to anyone who has an open mind and wants a device that will improve their smartphone experience.

    But, it's getting harder and harder based on the lack of any information and/or updates that haven't been provided to the loyal customers here in the USA?

    When a future Blackberry user ask me about product and warranty support, I am left standing there trying to honestly give them an answer based on what has been provided to us folks here in the USA the past 6 months which is nothing???

    I will continue to preach the brand here, but you can't expect folks to abandon their current platforms for a brand that most folks here in the USA think is out of business???





    Sent from using CB Forum App
    03-10-14 04:47 PM
  20. iN8ter's Avatar
    Very odd indeed my BlackBerry 10 devices NEVER crashed. Amazing the lengths some come here to bash. I can't say the same for the other platforms. Even BGR can't deny the obvious.

    BlackBerry 10 Browser Test: BlackBerry beats iPhone, Android | BGR


    Posted via CB10
    That's amazing. I'm ecstatic for you.

    But the Z30 in the Verizon store was anything but stable. It could have been running old software, for all I know. But that doesn't matter because when he tried to operate it, it crashed and burned and that was enough for him to put it on ignore in less than 30 seconds.

    How is saying the Store Model crashed on him equitable to bashing a device?

    No one cares about a Browser test. All these browsers are fast.

    I'm pretty sure the S4/5 or Note 2/Note 3 would curb stomp the Z30 in almost all other synthetic benchmarks, though, but that probably doesn't matter to someone who buys a device with worse hardware knowing it will not perform as well (which is the case for all Z30 users, since it was released after the HTC One and GS4, among other devices).

    Are you people still going to be linking that browser test in 5 years?

    EDIT: Did you bother to look at the Browsers tested in the Infographic? Lol.
    03-10-14 04:58 PM
  21. MADBRADNYC's Avatar
    ??
    My bad. I can admit when I'm wrong... Unlike some others.
    It was the Geek-Not Fan
    http://forums.crackberry.com/news-ru...mobile-912937/

    Still like your perspective though!
    03-10-14 05:27 PM
  22. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    My bad. I can admit when I'm wrong... Unlike some others.
    It was the Geek-Not Fan
    http://forums.crackberry.com/news-ru...mobile-912937/

    Still like your perspective though!
    No worries.

    Posted via CB10
    03-10-14 05:27 PM
  23. iN8ter's Avatar
    Protest much?

    Posted via CB10
    I suggested it. It is not my job to sell it, troubleshoot it, or be a representative for every consumer who may or may not have encountered a bad unit in the store.

    I know he got a coworker to get a Droid Maxx like him after raving about the Battery Life and Touchless Controls, so I imagine if I owned a Z30 it may have been easier to sell him on the device, since he wouldn't have had to depend on in-store carrier devices to get an idea of how the device worked.

    But no, I don't protest for anyone but myself. If he thought it was worth it, I'm almost sure he would have done so himself. I just figured I'd call his attention to another option since it fit the requirements he had stated to me.
    03-10-14 05:37 PM
  24. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    I suggested it. It is not my job to sell it, troubleshoot it, or be a representative for every consumer who may or may not have encountered a bad unit in the store.

    I know he got a coworker to get a Droid Maxx like him after raving about the Battery Life and Touchless Controls, so I imagine if I owned a Z30 it may have been easier to sell him on the device, since he wouldn't have had to depend on in-store carrier devices to get an idea of how the device worked.

    But no, I don't protest for anyone but myself. If he thought it was worth it, I'm almost sure he would have done so himself. I just figured I'd call his attention to another option since it fit the requirements he had stated to me.
    Wonderful, to each his/her own.

    Posted via CB10
    03-10-14 05:42 PM
  25. MADBRADNYC's Avatar
    Wonderful, to each his/her own.
    Stay true, and never allow yourself to be assimilated into the Borg Collective!
    03-10-14 05:48 PM
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