[PTZ]

"Fox News says". RIM has become a popular name in the negative columns of some news companies. I have read the tech news through on google and there is bunch of not so nice stuff about a competitor and its struggles with battery drain and security. There was also an article about an investment group making a good statement about RIM. I have not seen any mention of it here, perhaps I have missed something? So to add a ray of sunshine to the cloud of negativity found on Crackberry about RIM-see
San Francisco Chronicle article by Miles Weis- "RIM's New Operating System Will Surprise, Cooperman says" Bloomberg news
An investment group sees a chance to make some profit from an investment in RIM stock. Why not see the cup as half full for RIM? Naysayers and endless criticism do not make history they just talk about what others have done or are doing. I might buy some RIM stock too. I like the ballsy decision to buy a new operating system and shift the whole heart of their business to a new format. My playbook works, and I like the way it works.

[ubizmo]

I think jhimmel summed the situation up well, a few posts back.

iOS and Android have dominated the consumer market so effectively that it's just not clear that there is any perceived need for another player. RIM entered the consumer market too tentatively and failed to secure a leadership position. BBX may be great, just as Windows 7.5 looks quite good, but the number of "undecided/independent" buyers may have dwindled to the point where it just doesn't matter.

The real question is, How good will BBX have to be to turn things around? What will it have to offer, to make consumers care that it finally arrived? I don't think anybody knows the answer, but I think most can agree that the bar is set very high. Seamless integration with the PlayBook might have been a strong point in its favor, if PlayBook sales had been strong enough to create a large user base eager for BBX devices to link to it. But we all know that didn't happen, for reasons to familiar to mention. So, as a buildup to BBX, the PB wasn't effective. BBX will have to win back market share on its own.

[xanadome]

The real question is, How good will BBX have to be to turn things around? What will it have to offer, to make consumers care that it finally arrived?

I agree that it essentially boils down to it. Come to think of it, what else does RIM have right now for any hope of future turn around? The whole concept of BB style device was struck down by the onslaught of touch screen smart phones (right or wrong). I have doubts about the successful implementation of QNX in s mall handheld device, and I do admire Apple's success (well, at least they do what they said they would. That alone is a big contrast to RIM).
But that does not at all mean that I stick to my iPhone just because it was made by Apple (and I use the 9780 for normal daily use, but almost as an email reader). If BBX BB is more useful over other phones, I will buy it. It's my money, and I spend it for what I think would help my productivity.
However, looking at recent behaviours of RIM, and resultant false hype of everything, I do not have any unfounded expectations. And forgive my ignorance, but I still do not understand the bases of almost blind admiration of the QNX at this point (beyond whatever I could find in the net). RIM's failure to successfully implement and execute the QNX in PB did not help my confidence either. However great the original QNX might be, I doubt how much of it will be seen in a small device like a cell phone. And I suspect that the UI is probably not much different from the traditional BBOS such as OS7.
I like my 9780 as it is, and I once bought a 9900. Browser was much improved and usable. But it was probably because of using of better webkit and most notably by the hardware acceleration.
If someone can shed light on how BBX (QNX) can significantly improve the performance over the current line of OS7 devices, I seriously like to hear it. This is not a sarcastic question. I am genuinely and seriously interested in knowing what BBX may do to better the BB handsets. I just cannot imagine how the BBX can make a sea change like iPhone did. It's probably a "more of the same".
Now that my craze for the 9900 has waned out (I really waited and waited this year till summer and I purchased it but sold it in 3 days. I now wait for a 9790 with wifi hotspot), and iPhone 4S is totally satisfactory for my business uses (I don't do games or not even listen to music, although I have quite a bit of collections in the phone. I use browser quite a bit for Googling something and banking etc. Google map is totally useful in iPhone). I can wait for the BBX devices with a calmer mind :-).

[ubizmo]

If someone can shed light on how BBX (QNX) can significantly improve the performance over the current line of OS7 devices, I seriously like to hear it.

I'd like to know this too. Also, I'd like to know what, if anything, QNX might be able to do that Android and iOS don't do, or don't do well--not to mention Windows 7.5. From what I can tell, Windows 7.5 is a very well thought-out system, and the people who have these devices seem to like them a lot. But so far, they're not getting much market share or developer attention, and I don't think the reason is that the platform isn't "good enough." If Windows 7.5, with favorable reviews and the resources of Microsoft behind it, isn't gaining on iOS and Android, what will BBX have that has a better chance?

Returning to xanadome's question...Maybe the main advantage of BBX in comparison to OS7 is that it'll be more developer friendly? That's just a guess. But if so, will that be enough to make a difference?

[jhimmel]

Excellent questions, xanadome (re: QNX BBX)

I think that is what we are all waiting to find out. I've read all the great things about QNX, but how RIM can leverage those strengths into a user experience that really sets itself apart is what many of us are waiting to see. iOS is well developed. Android is getting there. QNX has been around, but the BBX implementation is brand spanking new. QNX provides a good foundation, and that's really it. Creative new ideas need to come, and THAT is the hard part. Can RIM be a leader any more? Mind-share, once lost, is hard to regain - and you can't do it by chasing the competition.

[sosumi11]

Maybe the main advantage of BBX in comparison to OS7 is that it'll be more developer friendly? That's just a guess. But if so, will that be enough to make a difference?

Developers don't write apps for a platform because it's easy. They write apps to make money.

It begins with giving developers the tools months BEFORE the product launches and have apps ready at launch.

Not the other way around.

[jhimmel]

Developers don't write apps for a platform because it's easy. They write apps to make money.

The two go hand in hand. Whether or not the reward is worth the trouble can depend on exactly how much trouble it is to develop and support the product on a given platform.

[ubizmo]

Developers don't write apps for a platform because it's easy. They write apps to make money.

Exactly, but in terms of time and resources, difficult=expensive.

So just as you say, the key is to do everything possible to make the platform attractive to developers before the new platform even arrives. Since RIM can't promise a large customer base, compared to iOS and Android, they only factor they can control is how easy and efficient they make the platform for developers, so that devoting resources to porting or developing apps will be worth it. But the question is whether even that, should RIM do it as well as possible, will be enough to make a difference.

[Donnee]

I shouldnt have to say this, but im going to put this nice and clear at the top, this is my own opinion, it could be wrong (**** it usually is) but i figured id share anyway...

Ive just got rid of my curve in favour of one of those fruit flavoured numbers, my original plan was to grab a 9900 but i ended up caving in. Id bore you with all the reasons but there's one quite pertinent to this topic and that was whether rim would still be "supported".

Not sure what its like in other countries but here in the uk our contracts tend to be quite long, and if you want a shiny phone its either 24 months or 600 up front, or there abouts. When i started looking at them i realised 2 years is s long time, and the way rim is going at the minute who knows whats round the corner.

Long story short ive booked myself in for a couple of years in the relative safety of the walled garden cult... Once my tenure is up, providing i havent been brainwashed, i'll pop back and see how rim's doing... I just hope they let me keep my playbook!

[mud314]

Interesting article from Faux and as much as I hate to admit it, they are right to a certain degree.

What RIM needs to address is the "other half" of the market, those that are not using their phones for pure business. I think they are on the right track with their BBM Music, but they really need to push this and fast so that those who are not business professionals become aware of it, it really is a great way of getting to explore music. Kids, teens can have access to tons of music for only 5 bucks. It keeps them social.

But like all other news, they only focus on the bad on the guy that is currently down. Did you know that if you are setup for BBES and want to connect to an Exchange Server you can but you cannot send from iDevice? Nothing can be done about it, it gives you the option to connect, receive email, but not send if you are on Exchange Server 2010. Now, you don't hear anyone bringing up to the front of a new story. That from my POV is a huge DRAWBACK and I'm glad I opted for my 9930. Here is another obscure technical issue that you don't hear about, but it's there, for no reason at all, iDevices will explode their text and pictures to where you all you get is a few giant letters. Guess what? Even with iOS 5 that supposedly cuts the cord, in order to get out of this mess is by having to plug in your iDevice to your computer and perform a reload. No, power cycle, no reset, from the device can get you out of it.

Apple does a fine job of hiding the negatives of their company. I read another post on here about companies switching to Android devices and getting stipends, why??? Seriously those phones are a dime a dozen.

People are talking about the lack of the Gmail on BBs, so what? Is there really a need for an app to do something that already your device can do? Isn't that redundant?

I will say this, my friends did question my reason when I opted to go back to RIM, I had been an Android user and have always liked the looks of the iPhone, I work on a Mac. I play on MBA, I own tons of apps that I used when I had my iPad (gave it away after my 9930), technically Apple had me by the balls, but I still chose the 9930, because for me it's a much better phone.

I'm not a fanboy of RIM or any other platform, but man I sure despise people, specially news casters who don't know their arse from a whole in the ground.

[the_sleuth]

I agree with you mostly; however the undecided or feature phone users purchasing their first smartphone will rely on suggestions from friends&family. All of the negative press is mostly initiating from US media that gets reprinted across other internet sites. BlackBerry is doing quite well in UK, Indonesia, Canada, Middle East, South America and some African countries. Also it's holding its own in China.

With shrinking US marketshare, the US media jumped in to write RIM's epitaph. We will see what BBX brings to the market next year....

I think jhimmel summed the situation up well, a few posts back.

iOS and Android have dominated the consumer market so effectively that it's just not clear that there is any perceived need for another player. RIM entered the consumer market too tentatively and failed to secure a leadership position. BBX may be great, just as Windows 7.5 looks quite good, but the number of "undecided/independent" buyers may have dwindled to the point where it just doesn't matter.

The real question is, How good will BBX have to be to turn things around? What will it have to offer, to make consumers care that it finally arrived? I don't think anybody knows the answer, but I think most can agree that the bar is set very high. Seamless integration with the PlayBook might have been a strong point in its favor, if PlayBook sales had been strong enough to create a large user base eager for BBX devices to link to it. But we all know that didn't happen, for reasons to familiar to mention. So, as a buildup to BBX, the PB wasn't effective. BBX will have to win back market share on its own.

[jhimmel]

Yes, of course iPhone has it's share of problems. A friend posted on her facebook page asking if anyone knows what to do about her iPhone that, when she places a call, she can hear the other person, but they can't hear her. Another friend responded with the same problem. I responded that my boss has that problem with HIS brand new iPhone, except in his case, it seems to work if he hangs up and calls back a second time. Odd. Now three people in a couple of days in my own small circle with the same problem after the new software rolled out (one on a brand new handset - a replacement is on the way). I would have to imagine that the problem must extend beyond the three people I happen to know. Yet I have not read a word about it.

However, it doesn't matter. That is today's climate, and RIM better deal with it. Perception is reality - and we have to be honest with ourselves, it's not ALL perception. Apple is putting out some slick products, and as Economist points out, marketing is a lot easier when you have something to tout.

[00stryder]

I'd like to know this too. Also, I'd like to know what, if anything, QNX might be able to do that Android and iOS don't do, or don't do well--not to mention Windows 7.5. From what I can tell, Windows 7.5 is a very well thought-out system, and the people who have these devices seem to like them a lot. But so far, they're not getting much market share or developer attention, and I don't think the reason is that the platform isn't "good enough." If Windows 7.5, with favorable reviews and the resources of Microsoft behind it, isn't gaining on iOS and Android, what will BBX have that has a better chance?

Returning to xanadome's question...Maybe the main advantage of BBX in comparison to OS7 is that it'll be more developer friendly? That's just a guess. But if so, will that be enough to make a difference?

I remember and article that Crackberry Kevin wrote probably a year ago that did a great job of explaining what QNX is and how it might factor into the mobile device world, but for the life of me I can't seem to find it now. I won't be able to do nearly as well as he did so I really won't make an attempt to do so, but I'll go ahead and share this article instead:

(I can't post links yet, but do a quick search for "BlackBerry Tablet OS � A discussion with Dan Dodge" on Google)

Taken from the official Blackberry Blog, it's an interview with Dan Dodge from September of last year, about 4-5 months after RIM acquired QNX. I'll list the parts of the interview that are pertinent to your questions here:

"[...] with the QNX Neutrino microkernel architecture, every application, device driver, networking stack, and virtual machine runs in memory-protected user space. As a result, the BlackBerry Tablet OS can provide a resilient, self-healing environment in order to protect applications from hurting one another or the OS itself."

Basically this translates into a more stable OS. If one errant app is going down, it won't take the whole OS with it. I think iOS already does a pretty decent job of this as well, but I'm not sure if it's something that is based on the very foundation of how the OS operates, like QNX does.

The QNX Neutrino architecture can also support true multitasking on multicore hardware � in fact, its multicore prowess has been performance-proven in the world�s highest-capacity routers. As a result, it can run multiple applications simultaneously, while delivering very high performance.

This isn't likely to be very obvious to the end-user since pretty much everything does multi-tasking now, but I think the point here is that multi-tasking on QNX-powered devices can be done with a smaller demand on resources. And as we've already seen with the Playbook, you have "true" multi-tasking as you would have on a desktop/laptop where switching windows doesn't "pause" the background app but keeps it running. This is probably best utilized in the setting where you're giving a presentation or something and have audio/video playing in the background of a powerpoint presentation so you can have both going simultaneously. Sure, you could switch back and forth quickly like with iOS, but the option is there should you need it.

Like I said, I'd do a terrible job of explaining it myself, but perhaps somebody more apt at performing Crackberry post searches will be kind enough to find Kevin's article and post it here.

P.S. iOS recently jumped on this, but one glaring advantage to the way the QNX microkernel operates is the fact that with updates, the entire OS doesn't need to be worked on to deliver new features/support. This basically allows you to download only what you need to in order to update the OS and thus keep the data usage down (already optimized very well over RIM's servers, I might add). I don't know if this could also be extended to apps developed with the NDK (again, my knowledge is very limited), but that would also be pretty cool too.

[the_sleuth]

Worth repeating, QNX explained:
http://crackberry.com/qnx-breaks-dow...ry-playbook-us

[louzer]

So what if RIM is slumping in the US market. They still have 70 million users and growing. I read this over and over. Whenever I read this, it reminds me of the following dialog:

Ian Faith: The Boston gig has been cancelled...
David St. Hubbins: What?
Ian Faith: Yeah. I wouldn't worry about it though, it's not a big college town.

Some might get the reference and others might not. It is a big concern if RIM is losing the US market. But the bigger concern, in my mind, is where RIM really dropped the ball.

For years, Blackberries ruled the workplace. People carried their Blackberries to stay tied to their emial and basic browsing while on the go. RIM made the go-to device for the enterprise. There focus was on the business market and improving their messaging and back-end servers to make them the most useful and secure that they could.

Then something interesting happened. Teenages discovered BBM and the Curve. The combination of these two led to the meteric leap in sales/usage of RIM devices and services. The growth that RIM experienced was viral. The feeling was that if the cool kids were on BBM and if I want to be cool, then I must own a Blackberry. RIM sat back and watched this growth while raking in the cash.

What RIM missed was that all of these teens probably came to Blackberry devices from Motorola Razrs. The leap in functionality in terms of messaging was pretty significant. And then, Android comes around and the iPhone begins to get it's act together in terms of messaging. A few of these (cool) teens switch to iPhones and contracts are expiring on the follwers' plans and guess where these followers migrate to.

I completely agree with most of the analogies expressed above. I think that RIM needs to figure out what the next new thing to attract this crowd back is. The problem is that the next new thing is rarely planned - it's usually some accident that explodes into a phenomenon.

The article by Fox does not really upset me with regard to the future of RIM. What I find more distressing is an article in the Huffington Post (huge Blackberry users) talking about switching. Something needs to be done to stop the bleeding.

[xanadome]

P.S. iOS recently jumped on this, but one glaring advantage to the way the QNX microkernel operates is the fact that with updates, the entire OS doesn't need to be worked on to deliver new features/support. This basically allows you to download only what you need to in order to update the OS and thus keep the data usage down (already optimized very well over RIM's servers, I might add). I don't know if this could also be extended to apps developed with the NDK (again, my knowledge is very limited), but that would also be pretty cool too.

This, if in fact is true (not doubting the poster), might solve at least the current BB problem, as I perceived it.
I purchased 9700 back in last summer and since upgraded to 9780, and I really have not experienced any software related problems, except for the need of battery pull (I am not loading it up with many apps either). I do not recollect I have ever experienced "any" software related problems with my iPhone.

OTOH, one of the things I learned since I joined the BB community was such a frequent revision of OS updates. It runs in "hundreds". Even the new OS7, when I purchased the 9900, was already in 3 digits revision. I also observe many posts related to the OS or software related issues. On top of that, I see "leaked" versions and "hybrids" and all that. This is quite a new experience and amazing to me. This constant revisions of OS tells me, and I could very well be wrong, that BBOS is really bloated and when something is fixed, somewhere else is broken. To fix it, there would be another revision to address it, then broke something else. Just a vicious cycle. I do not know if this observation would be correct but I sure hope that BBX would be brand new with a clean and fresh start. However, I also believe (I do not pretend to be a software expert. Not at all), that QNX would only provide the basic architecture (kernel level?), but the UI is still the traditional BBOS or something close to it.

As I said elsewhere in the forum, this archaic and old-school hierarchical menu style interface itself does not bother me. It has its own merit (coming from, way back, Palm Pilot and Treo) and I actually like it. But, boy, am I concerned about this constant running of OS updates and battery pull etc. Touch screen and larger display real estate did give many advantage over the candy bar style phones but I used it long enough to learn some disadvantages too. I like BB's very functional style. I just look forward to a cleaner execution of whatever RIM is currently doing (entangling?) with BBX.

[Bla1ze]

Ha!

This sums up a lot.

Here

Just sayin' -- Not hatin'

[AlienSlacker]

Maybe I would take a news article about RIM, from the mouth breathers at Fox, more seriously if I didn't see Apple logo's on the front of their laptops. I am sure if RIM coughed up a few million the management at Fox would slap RIM logo's everywhere including the foreheads of their newscasters.

[Sharma15]

The Gmail app was absolutely garbage! Even on my 9900 it wouldnt work. the BIS gmail is 10000x better than any email client on any phone ive used. Even on my 4S it isnt push.

[00stryder]

This, if in fact is true (not doubting the poster), might solve at least the current BB problem, as I perceived it.
I purchased 9700 back in last summer and since upgraded to 9780, and I really have not experienced any software related problems, except for the need of battery pull (I am not loading it up with many apps either). I do not recollect I have ever experienced "any" software related problems with my iPhone.

OTOH, one of the things I learned since I joined the BB community was such a frequent revision of OS updates. It runs in "hundreds". Even the new OS7, when I purchased the 9900, was already in 3 digits revision. I also observe many posts related to the OS or software related issues. On top of that, I see "leaked" versions and "hybrids" and all that. This is quite a new experience and amazing to me. This constant revisions of OS tells me, and I could very well be wrong, that BBOS is really bloated and when something is fixed, somewhere else is broken. To fix it, there would be another revision to address it, then broke something else. Just a vicious cycle. I do not know if this observation would be correct but I sure hope that BBX would be brand new with a clean and fresh start. However, I also believe (I do not pretend to be a software expert. Not at all), that QNX would only provide the basic architecture (kernel level?), but the UI is still the traditional BBOS or something close to it.

Well, I can't speak from a developer standpoint, but as I understand it OS's are constantly going through revisions and updates. I think the multitude of OS versions you see are a result of small incremental updates that are released at different times for several reasons, most likely stemming from carrier hold-ups and the sheer number of different BB's out there. On top of that you have, as you said, leaked OS versions and hybrids, which do actually exist outside of BlackBerry. Android is notorious for this very thing, and if you jailbreak you iOS device, you'll need to download leaked versions to support future services.

I don't know if this is actually happening or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if iOS goes through hundreds of revisions before the next update, major or minor, and that given Apple's strong stance on ecosystem control, very few of these revisions are released to consumers. But there are software updates between major overhauls (e.g. iOS 4 -> 5) and they do sometimes come with software issues (the most recent being the battery drain problems with iOS 5). There is always the risk of complications with every update that you apply to your device, BlackBerry or not.

As I said elsewhere in the forum, this archaic and old-school hierarchical menu style interface itself does not bother me. It has its own merit (coming from, way back, Palm Pilot and Treo) and I actually like it. But, boy, am I concerned about this constant running of OS updates and battery pull etc.

By its very foundation, QNX *should* fix the need for repeated battery pulls as it *should* utilize resources more efficiently than the traditional BBOS. I think you can already see this in the Playbook; I haven't heard of many people needing to restart their device unless they're installing new apps (and even then it's only recommended and not required) or fooling around with the developer build of 2.0 and/or the leaked Android player. The way that the microkernel works, you'll also likely see the end of memory leaks on BlackBerry devices as (correct me if I'm wrong), QNX can identify rouge processes that are using up resources, isolate them, and stop them from sequestering additional memory (this goes back to what I said about using resources more efficiently). So potentially, you could run your QNX-powered device without the need to reset for months if you really wanted to. So in comparison, the traditional BBOS is kinda like bloatware.

Again, I'm not speaking as an expert of anything; this is just my interpretation of what I've read. Man, I wish I had Kevin's article available... Bla1ze (if you're reading), you wouldn't happen to know what I'm talking about, would you?

[mustangv8]

Fox news driving share prices down so friends can profit? Who'da thunk it.

No, that's cnbc. watch bloomberg if you are more interested with a pure market. Unlike all of cnbc's talking heads with agendas. Jmo

[southlander]

Fair enough but I doubt they get issued to hundreds and thousands of employees as blackberrys are, UK police traffic branch for example.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Yeah I was surprised when speaking with a friend of mine a day or two ago at a party. He works for Verizon (not wireless). I had my 9930 out checking some messages. He was checking it out and then told me he has a BlackBerry that is work issued. The techs keep all kinds of stuff on BlackBerrys he said. I was thinking wow, Verizon.... That is a LOT of BlackBerrys in the field.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk

[Laura Knotek]

The two go hand in hand. Whether or not the reward is worth the trouble can depend on exactly how much trouble it is to develop and support the product on a given platform.

Microsoft is providing many incentives for developers at the present time.

[anon(2325196)]

fox said wang

[southlander]

I'd like to know this too. Also, I'd like to know what, if anything, QNX might be able to do that Android and iOS don't do, or don't do well--not to mention Windows 7.5. From what I can tell, Windows 7.5 is a very well thought-out system, and the people who have these devices seem to like them a lot. But so far, they're not getting much market share or developer attention, and I don't think the reason is that the platform isn't "good enough." If Windows 7.5, with favorable reviews and the resources of Microsoft behind it, isn't gaining on iOS and Android, what will BBX have that has a better chance?



Returning to xanadome's question...Maybe the main advantage of BBX in comparison to OS7 is that it'll be more developer friendly? That's just a guess. But if so, will that be enough to make a difference?

Two thing QNX does for RIM:

1. No Java ME licenses to buy from Oracle (right?).

2. No patent licenses to pay to Microsoft like would have been the case if RIM had opted for Android.

Small things I suppose, but these small amounts spread over 10's of millions of units add up.


Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk