[fearmychickens]

I'm running flash 10 beta on my Droid right now which is running 2.2 and it works very well.

For example, I was able to go to xat.com and chat with people there. Everything was fast from typing to receiving messages back.

I also went on YouTube through the web browser and was able to view videos without sluggishness/sloppy performance.

Truthfully, I'm pretty amazed by this. I think flash will be a hit on smartphones.

[icesteve]

Yea flash will stay, he's hurting himself by not supporting it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[fearmychickens]

Yea flash will stay, he's hurting himself by not supporting it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I mean I understand what he's saying by smartphones not needing flash but it's definitely something nice to have. I didn't care for it at all but after using it I realize that it's actually nice.

Flash 10 beta is running pretty well right now.

[aubinhick990]

My friend just loaded it up on his Droid as well. It's pretty impressive, especially for not being a final release.
While I agree that phones may not need flash, having the option is damn impressive and really helps the experience.

[1magine]

Hey its a cell phone - it doesn't need a web browser either, by that logic. Question really is what do people want? And quite frankly, I think people have spoken very clear and very loudly by their purchases. Individual consumers want a fast, powerful, large, touch screen device that can deliver both utility and a full media experience. Businesses and government want secure, cheap, utility. Not necessarily in that order. I believe the people who make up governments and businesses will eventually drive their purchases in a different direction. In fact, I have seen the glacier begin to move. Wonder if Mike and and Steve can move past their egos to see which way the wind is blowing.

[phonejunky]

Yea flash will stay, he's hurting himself by not supporting it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Steve isn't hurting himself at all. With him alone not supporting it everyone is optimizing their sites for the iPad and taking great interest in HTML5.

[i7guy]

Hey its a cell phone - it doesn't need a web browser either, by that logic. Question really is what do people want? And quite frankly, I think people have spoken very clear and very loudly by their purchases. Individual consumers want a fast, powerful, large, touch screen device that can deliver both utility and a full media experience. Businesses and government want secure, cheap, utility. Not necessarily in that order. I believe the people who make up governments and businesses will eventually drive their purchases in a different direction. In fact, I have seen the glacier begin to move. Wonder if Mike and and Steve can move past their egos to see which way the wind is blowing.

Like any car is just a car. I know what I want, but does anyone really know what "people" want? We know the magic of the internet magnifies negative comments while toning down positive comments. I could care less about a rich multimedia experience on a 4 inch screen, that is what my pc with a 17 inch screen is for.

edit -- "I was for it, before I was against it"

[fearmychickens]

Like any car is just a car. I know what I want, but does anyone really know what "people" want? We know the magic of the internet magnifies negative comments while toning down positive comments. I could care less about a rich multimedia experience on a 4 inch screen, that is what my pc with a 17 inch screen is for.

edit -- "I was for it, before I was against it"

Too bad you can't fit a PC in your pocket and have it combined with a cellphone. I have a laptop and a PC which I use when I'm at home. My Droid gets used when I'm on the go. Simple as that. No need for any other internet device.

[K Bear]

Steve isn't hurting himself at all. With him alone not supporting it everyone is optimizing their sites for the iPad and taking great interest in HTML5.

I don't think this is completely true as HTML5 is not fully written or deployed yet.

I have my issues with Flash, especially relating to security issues, but, that being said, Flash can be a great coding option. It just does videos and graphics better than HTML4. Maybe when HTML5 is fully deployed, that will change, but for now, Apple needs to eat the crow they shot.

[i7guy]

Too bad you can't fit a PC in your pocket and have it combined with a cellphone. I have a laptop and a PC which I use when I'm at home. My Droid gets used when I'm on the go. Simple as that. No need for any other internet device.

For me, when I'm on the go, no cell phone has the capacity I need to do what I have to do. You simply cannot do what I need without a keyboard, mouse and a large screen.

[fearmychickens]

For me, when I'm on the go, no cell phone has the capacity I need to do what I have to do. You simply cannot do what I need without a keyboard, mouse and a large screen.

Everyone's use is different. A smartphone can replace a computer for some and not for others (definitely not for me!). But just being able to use data on the go and having all these features is a nice luxury.

But I'm pretty impressed. I don't care much for flash on my phone but it's nice to have it there. I disable it when I browse because I don't care too much for it but on sites that really heavily on it, it works decently. I can definitely see it improving over time and becoming a lot more refined.

[TheScionicMan]

It would have been one thing if both FLASH and HTML5 were available and he chose the one that was the best. Instead, he torpedoed FLASH because it wasn't finished, and went with HTML5 which is even more incomplete. Not to mention that by the time HTML5 is approved and widely used, there will already be at least a 2nd version of the iPad that is supposedly so forward-thinking... adding little things that were available when the first one came out...

[Username00089]

From just my perspective, personally for me, I wouldn't care if my phone had
flash. If it does, great. If it doesn't, it doesn't make a difference to me. Once
Froyo is available for my Evo I am almost positive that I will turn flash off anyway.

If I really want to see something that really requires flash I'll just use a computer.

[fearmychickens]

From just my perspective, personally for me, I wouldn't care if my phone had
flash. If it does, great. If it doesn't, it doesn't make a difference to me. Once
Froyo is available for my Evo I am almost positive that I will turn flash off anyway.

If I really want to see something that really requires flash I'll just use a computer.

Same for me. I turned it off because I don't need it. But seeing that it works quite decently on sites that require flash, I'll only turn it on "IF" I visit those sites.

I just think it was done well so far and will actually turn out well in the future.

[breakmedown]

Too bad you can't fit a PC in your pocket and have it combined with a cellphone. I have a laptop and a PC which I use when I'm at home. My Droid gets used when I'm on the go. Simple as that. No need for any other internet device.

When you have netbooks hardly larger than a standard notebook (as in something you'd write in, not a laptop) how is that not portable? Will it fit in your pocket, no, it won't. Can it easily go anywhere you go, yeah, it can.

I'll never give up my laptop or desktop just because my phone can do flash and whatever. I don't even like looking at pictures on Crackberry or Facebook on my phone because they're small and I get a mediocre (at best) reproduction. I imagine that as time goes on, the ability to render these pictures and video will become better, but so will the picture quality. So as both technologies move forward it will still leave a less quality experience on my cell phone as compared to my computer.

[fearmychickens]

When you have netbooks hardly larger than a standard notebook (as in something you'd write in, not a laptop) how is that not portable? Will it fit in your pocket, no, it won't. Can it easily go anywhere you go, yeah, it can.

Yeah, but they aren't cellphones. Cellphones are standard, not netbooks.

I'll never give up my laptop or desktop just because my phone can do flash and whatever. I don't even like looking at pictures on Crackberry or Facebook on my phone because they're small and I get a mediocre (at best) reproduction. I imagine that as time goes on, the ability to render these pictures and video will become better, but so will the picture quality. So as both technologies move forward it will still leave a less quality experience on my cell phone as compared to my computer.

I'll never give up my laptop either but I will continue to use my phone as a mini substitute for when I'm on the go or don't have my computer around me.

[EnergyPlus]

I think there are a couple of issues here, beginning with age. As a registered "old fart" who is tech savvy, I've become very aware of how an older generation treats the relatively new smart phones vs. how the younger generation does. To us OFs, the smart phone is but a tool that provides us with increased accessibility to certain, important functions, as a priority. The other stuff comes as a "nice benefit." Like others here have posted, I have both a laptop (17" monitor) and a desktop (32" monitor) that I use for large or graphic intensive needs. My phone is primarily a phone first, an email device second and, a nice internet distraction (and occasionally very useful), third. But I've seen clear indications that the younger crowd, who is growing up with these smart phones, are viewing them as a primary device, not a secondary one. Thus, their demands are heavier than those of some.

Regarding Flash, while my own, personal business site is Flash intensive, I could really care less if my phone utilizes it. Like others, it would be nice, but it's not a deal breaker. Technology seems to be coming to the rescue, however, at least in regards to how Apple is handling it. I recently read an article announcing a company called "GreyStripe"has introduced software that resides on the web hosting side, that detects the browser type attempting to access the site. If it sees Safari (from Apple), it automatically renders the flash content on the site as HTML5. Otherwise, it allows the content to present in Flash mode.

[mohavewolfpup]

the biggest problem with flash (and why it is junk in my books) is that it is a evil piece of software used to shove everything down your throat but what you actually need.

Remember when you would get onto a website and could hit the escape key or click stop and the banner ads would quit?

Now you have ads that follow you down pages, pop under/over your browser, even take up the entire screen over the page you want to view. if you are lucky, you can hit close in the corner, but not all the time.

that escape key solution? doesn't work anymore. I've even been attacked by several pages that use hidden flash controls to blast god awful music or downright disgusting advertising that you can't get rid of.

This is why my systems are all locked down with flash being killed, and it's only enabled when I require it, not when they require it.

your little 4-5 inch screen is going to resemble more of a highway crammed full of billboards if flash takes over. and since phone makers rake in the dough, expect to pay $149.95 for a application that only weighs about 150kb and maybe only partially blocks some of the stuff...

don't forget virus payloads can be launched from flash enabled pages also...

If you don't even think about it, many flash sites are just pieces of total crap.

The last HTML I learned to code was 3.1 if I remember correctly. if you need a radio button, a small chunk of text strung together did it. Now you have complicated websites with flashing text, circulating/swooshing images, etc bouncing all over your screen as you fill out a simple form for a brochure....

"Web 2.0" has got to be the single biggest waste of bandwith i've ever seen. Sadly, it's sent alot of computers to the junkyard also. the 300 mhz Pentium II I started out on became quickly useless with all these stupid flash enabled websites. ****, i've had a top of the line 1 week old pc bog down with a website that loads flash, then a video, then a song, and rotates around a virtual room....

No other apps are running, and it's running like a ancient 486 trying to play a mp3....

A Web Developers method lately seems to be quantity/eye candy (like the video game industry) not quality.

with how it keeps going, I bet the cell phone industry is going to become like the cable/satellite tv industry, something you pay $40,50,60,70,80,90,$100+ a month for and it's jammed solid full of ads.

all you old timers, I bet you can remember when cable tv in the 80's had light/no ads at all on most of the channels, and if you wanted infomericals, you tuned to a special channel for it. Now? I've seen discovery,national geographic, etc running infomericals from ungodly hours like 2 am until 12 pm sometimes!

What do we pay for? actual content, or products to be sold to us/propaganda? (high fructose corn syrup is good for you! next up, drinking motor oil and eating british petrol coated shrimp! juicy and chock full of omega 3!)

it's only going to get uglier, not better. the more they get people hooked on the crack cocaine that is a computer in your pocket, the more you are going to be assaulted from all angles by the media companies. Don't think it will happen? Many grocery stores now run loud ads at the check out lane, gas stations that charge you a full tank of gas that almost equals a car payment blast ads at the pumps also (if the ads are there to make money, why isn't the fuel drastically cut in price? i've seen stations with these ads as much as 50 cents higher then a non ad blaring station....)

be careful what you wish for....

[kbz1960]

I agree with Mohavewolfpup.

[GlitchZero]

the biggest problem with flash (and why it is junk in my books) is that it is a evil piece of software used to shove everything down your throat but what you actually need.

Remember when you would get onto a website and could hit the escape key or click stop and the banner ads would quit?

Now you have ads that follow you down pages, pop under/over your browser, even take up the entire screen over the page you want to view. if you are lucky, you can hit close in the corner, but not all the time.

that escape key solution? doesn't work anymore. I've even been attacked by several pages that use hidden flash controls to blast god awful music or downright disgusting advertising that you can't get rid of.

This is why my systems are all locked down with flash being killed, and it's only enabled when I require it, not when they require it.

your little 4-5 inch screen is going to resemble more of a highway crammed full of billboards if flash takes over. and since phone makers rake in the dough, expect to pay $149.95 for a application that only weighs about 150kb and maybe only partially blocks some of the stuff...

don't forget virus payloads can be launched from flash enabled pages also...

If you don't even think about it, many flash sites are just pieces of total crap.

The last HTML I learned to code was 3.1 if I remember correctly. if you need a radio button, a small chunk of text strung together did it. Now you have complicated websites with flashing text, circulating/swooshing images, etc bouncing all over your screen as you fill out a simple form for a brochure....

"Web 2.0" has got to be the single biggest waste of bandwith i've ever seen. Sadly, it's sent alot of computers to the junkyard also. the 300 mhz Pentium II I started out on became quickly useless with all these stupid flash enabled websites. ****, i've had a top of the line 1 week old pc bog down with a website that loads flash, then a video, then a song, and rotates around a virtual room....

No other apps are running, and it's running like a ancient 486 trying to play a mp3....

A Web Developers method lately seems to be quantity/eye candy (like the video game industry) not quality.

with how it keeps going, I bet the cell phone industry is going to become like the cable/satellite tv industry, something you pay $40,50,60,70,80,90,$100+ a month for and it's jammed solid full of ads.

all you old timers, I bet you can remember when cable tv in the 80's had light/no ads at all on most of the channels, and if you wanted infomericals, you tuned to a special channel for it. Now? I've seen discovery,national geographic, etc running infomericals from ungodly hours like 2 am until 12 pm sometimes!

What do we pay for? actual content, or products to be sold to us/propaganda? (high fructose corn syrup is good for you! next up, drinking motor oil and eating british petrol coated shrimp! juicy and chock full of omega 3!)

it's only going to get uglier, not better. the more they get people hooked on the crack cocaine that is a computer in your pocket, the more you are going to be assaulted from all angles by the media companies. Don't think it will happen? Many grocery stores now run loud ads at the check out lane, gas stations that charge you a full tank of gas that almost equals a car payment blast ads at the pumps also (if the ads are there to make money, why isn't the fuel drastically cut in price? i've seen stations with these ads as much as 50 cents higher then a non ad blaring station....)

be careful what you wish for....

Wow. I bet you grew up in the 60's - 70's, eh?

This is why I LOVE being an 80's - 90's kid. It has literally been programmed into me to ignore advertisements. So no, I don't notice the grocery store ads (definitely a US thing, as I can say this doesn't happen in Canada) or the gas station ads (gas is NOWHERE near the price of a car payment, unless you got a 94 Accord with no extra trimmings leased) and there is no difference in the price of gas between a Full Service / Self-Serve with or without tv advertisements built into the pumps.

Your post is more of a giant "I hate change, and the damn teenagers that cut across my lawn!" than anything to do with the OP.

Anyways, I totally agree with OP. I think Jobs is making a huge mistake not supporting Flash, and when everyone else catches up to Android (and they will as far as Flash is concerned) it will show how many people actually want and use Flash.

SJ is seriously starting to let his ego get in the way of good business decisions. Makes me worry about the future of the company, as I still like Mac computers, but how long until he tells Intel to f*ck off because they're not building the processors 'the special way Steve likes them'?

[EnergyPlus]

I agree that mohave's rant is over the top and quite cynical (and exagerated) but the spirit and intent of his post has merit. I am an "old timer" one of the baby boomer generation. Yes, I remember the days of few ads, it was really quite blissful. I too resent ads at the grocery store check out line and the gas pumps, but I cannot say I blame them. As a consumer, you have the right to show your displeasure by not frequenting these outlets and letting management know about it and why.

Whether or not Job's attitude about Flash will ultimately hurt him, I'm leaning towards "not." Realizing I come from a generation where serious computer work is done on serious computers (desktop with 32" monitor and a 17" laptop), my phone is but a tool, albeit a nice one. I do surf the web on my BB, but more as an act of killing time while I wait on something or, while I sit out on my porch over a morning cup of coffee. Quick news and sports updates are also very handy. But, I realize that for those that are currently growing up (and sometimes, that phrase feels like a VERY generous description), I also realize that they are rapidly coming to expect that their device is the "be all/end all" for computer technology needs. Many of them don't even own a real computer. Many of them don't own or use a landline. Many of them simply do not know of any other way.

I am reminded of a visit I had last year, with a friend's, 93 year old father. He was quite alert and very talkative, seriously into local and national politics and areas of science. He kept several books right next to his EZ chair, including a thesaurus, a dictionary, a World Atlas and a mini-encyclopedia. At one point, he was reminicing with me about his WW II experiences (something I love talking with Vets about) and he hit a stumbling block regarding some facts. I quickly pulled out my Storm and Googled it, while I noticed he was trying to look it up in his encyclopedia. In a few moments (in spite of my relatively slow browser), I had the answer while he had yet to even find the right section in his encyclopedia. When I told him the info I had found, he looked up from his book and said "you found THAT on THAT??" LOL!!!

Change is difficult, something I realize more and more as I age. I am often reminded of things my parents told me (i.e. in 1967, I tried (in vain) to grow a moustache to better emulate the look of the Beatles) and my parents were horrified. They thought this was disgusting. They also thought Elvis was obscene. My mother told me that Johnny Carson was a "dirty old man" and forbade me from watching him. By the same token, we had one of the very first color TVs on the block, my Dad ALWAYS had the latest/greatest in stereo equipment and they both viewed the whole "Woodstock thing" as a sure sign that the world was doomed (I never did tell them that I actually hitched a ride up to Woodstock, but failed to get in when the freeway was shut down). Today, I view younger people with much of the same attitude my parents viewed mine, but at least I'm a bit more aware of what change is and how it works. Yes, ads are annoying, desceptive and omnipresent. Unfortunately, they work (as a 7th grader, I remember my teacher asking the class "who thinks they're not influenced by advertising?" I quickly raised my hand saying they had no influence on me whatsoever. The teacher smiled and I knew she knew that I knew, I was deceiving myself.

[GlitchZero]

I definitely will not deny they don't work. There's a reason you choose or think that Coke tastes better than "Joe Nobody's Cola" or whatever.

The part about the landline made me laugh though. I finally talked my parents into dropping their landline, as I (when I lived with them) my mom, dad, and sister always consistently have our cellphones on and with us. (all but my dad own a BB, so phone calls are barely made either ) I think more of the 'younger' generation have computers than you think though, Energy. They may not use them as much, as the smartphone experience provides instant convenience over walking to a desk, booting up a laptop, etc, but I'd say damn near everyone has a "real" computer in some capacity, just use it less since the smartphone. I mean I use my laptop at any given opportunity, but if I have my laptop and my BB with me in public, I'm definitely pulling out the BB before I pull out the laptop. (Which one do you think is more likely to get stolen, a Macbook or a Storm2?) Whereas as soon as I get home, I use my laptop for everything unless it's ScoreMobile or BerryWeather or something quick and already open like that.