03-31-14 08:09 PM
53 123
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  1. bbq10l's Avatar
    After talking to a coworker yesterday, I'm starting to think the announcement of bringing back the 9900 coupled with the announcement of the "classic" line is making the uninformed consumer more confused.

    My coworker informed me that John Chen said the new BlackBerry phones were no good, and so they were bringing back the old ones. He compared it to "new Coke" and told me the old phones were that much better than the new ones. This is what he took from what he read.

    I'm not saying everyone is that dumb, but some are. Some don't realize the classic is going to be an additional option and not the way of the future for all lines.

    I did get really angry and gave him a blast about it. As he stood in my doorway "educating" me about phones he's never used I couldn't help it.

    Standing in my doorway trying to school me on phones while he uses a flip phone so old that they're turning off the band it runs on next month.

    Okay maybe I'm still mad. LOL.

    Posted via CB10
    Wow- that's a way to convince him to use a new BlackBerry. I mean everyone in the world should follow John Chen like the gospel so they would always know what he said and meant. If BlackBerry's message was confusing- BlackBerry is to blame as the company is solely responsible for its message. It's not like they haven't flip flopped repeatedly over the last year. They are confused; why shouldn't everyone else be? As for your coworker - you owe him an apology. If someone at my job became that unhinged over a phone, I would refer them to the Employee Assistance Program.

    Posted via CB10
    03-30-14 06:12 PM
  2. madcat72's Avatar
    I switched from BBOS to a Z10, after 5 years of BBOS use. I don't feel alienated at all. I am way more productive on my Z10 than I ever was on any BBOS device. I use it way more than I ever used any BBOS device. I am way more satisfied with the complete package than I ever was with BBOS. So not all of us were alienated!

    Posted via CB10
    I'm not disputing that you can't be productive with bb10, heck I use a Q10, definitely not perfect but I do like it a lot. Although the added features are great, the missing ones from bbos are not to be dismissed.

    My point was directed to the OP, I was trying to show my point to of view on how the TV evolved over the years without loosing its basic features. BB10 to me feels more like an emulation of Android OS rather than an evolution of BBOS.
    03-30-14 09:12 PM
  3. anon2100101's Avatar
    In his case it would probably be from Lange & Sohne's or Muhle Glashutte.

    His tag line: Germans are know-it-all! Trust me- Im German...and know it!

    :-) If a manufacturer is able to sell a masterpiece for an exorbitant price in a batch production- okay, than BlackBerry could do the same and produce heavy weight, relativ clunky physical devices including a higher level of maintenance effort/cost and compromise to rigor. But if BlackBerry want to stay alive they have to produce something more like Skagen watches: slim, cool designed, accurate and affordable. :-)
    03-31-14 01:28 AM
  4. clickitykeys's Avatar
    So many false analogies in the OP. He completely missed the point that the new is better than the old if and only if it clearly works better than the old. Wake me up when a homogeneous glass slab offers the clicky tactile feedback and reliability of a good physical keyboard.

    There are design and usability tradeoffs to be made (e.g., screen size versus type-friendliness), and it is silly to demand that everyone should subscribe to your own criteria for what constitutes the best way forward for technology.
    TgeekB and Johberry like this.
    03-31-14 01:42 AM
  5. sixpacker's Avatar
    So many false analogies in the OP. He completely missed the point that the new is better than the old if and only if it clearly works better than the old. Wake me up when a homogeneous glass slab offers the clicky tactile feedback and reliability of a good physical keyboard.

    There are design and usability tradeoffs to be made (e.g., screen size versus type-friendliness), and it is silly to demand that everyone should subscribe to your own criteria for what constitutes the best way forward for technology.
    You obviously haven't read the big thread on Q10 double typing problems... A Pkb is bound to be less reliable.
    Sure, Pkb vs vkb is personal preference but as a handset developer with limited resources which segment would you go after? (clue the Pkb market has been declining rapidly for years). Chen has got it wrong by focusing on Pkb and undermining the main bb10 gesture concept.
    03-31-14 02:14 AM
  6. SunshineStateFlyer's Avatar
    I prefer my BlackBerry with a physical keyboard and I love seeing the comeback of the toolbelt. Am I a traditionalist? I don't think so.

    I am an IT professional and technology enthusiast always looking for the newest tech trend. I've had several Android smartphones, BlackBerrys and iPhones and I am definitely used to touchscreen typing as well.

    So I wouldn't say that I'm a traditionalist. But I love quality and productivity and the Q10 is the first phone I've been keeping for almost a year now because it just fits me. I think the use of a toolbelt or a "traditional" qwerty keyboard doesn't have to be a step backwards.
    It always depends on how you advertise it.

    So let's see with what kind of product they're coming up. I still think it can be a very advanced piece of hardware.



    Posted via CB10
    clickitykeys and anon2100101 like this.
    03-31-14 02:18 AM
  7. clickitykeys's Avatar
    You obviously haven't read the big thread on Q10 double typing problems...
    What part of a "good physical keyboard" was unclear? The deeper argument is not really about BlackBerry. It is about the unnecessary, and often ill-advised, obsolescence of genuinely useful stuff.
    03-31-14 02:29 AM
  8. anon2100101's Avatar
    I think I have to repeat it and make it clear: my statement is NO assessment if the physical or the virtual keyboard of BlackBerry works better- its just personal taste and preference! And I dont want to declare that new means better. Im very critical in context of new technology and so far a typical german. So please dont understand my POV specious as a refusal of physical keyboards! I loved them too and I remember with a little bit of wistfulness my beloved Bold9900 and its awesome charm.

    But: BlackBerry has to make money!

    The only way to get higher sales figures is NOT to satisfy the native village named physical-keyboard on the Blackberry island. BlackBerry has to fetch over iPhone- and Android-user! And believe it or not- they dont want physical keyboards! They love their touchscreens in combination with (partly) impressing specs! Period!

    Beside the fact, that (IMO) the virtual keyboard of the Z10 and Z30 works better than the Q10-tabs, I would like to see much more effort of Blackberry to conquer the iOS and Android world beyond the border instead to renew the outdatet cottages of the physical-keyboard-island.

    IF (somewhere in the future) BlackBerry has reconquered lost territory and had establish itself as a third (or second) force on market we can talk about exotic sidekicks and tradition and niche-products for diehard fans. But for now BlackBerry has to invest all its manpower to create a high end device which meets the taste and claims of user beyond the Blackberry-island!
    clickitykeys likes this.
    03-31-14 08:04 AM
  9. clickitykeys's Avatar
    I think I have to repeat it and make it clear: my statement is NO assessment if the physical or the virtual keyboard of BlackBerry works better- its just personal taste and preference! And I dont want to declare that new means better. Im very critical in context of new technology and so far a typical german. So please dont understand my POV specious as a refusal of physical keyboards! I loved them too and I remember with a little bit of wistfulness my beloved Bold9900 and its awesome charm.

    But: BlackBerry has to make money!

    The only way to get higher sales figures is NOT to satisfy the native village named physical-keyboard on the Blackberry island. BlackBerry has to fetch over iPhone- and Android-user! And believe it or not- they dont want physical keyboards! They love their touchscreens in combination with (partly) impressing specs! Period!

    Beside the fact, that (IMO) the virtual keyboard of the Z10 and Z30 works better than the Q10-tabs, I would like to see much more effort of Blackberry to conquer the iOS and Android world beyond the border instead to renew the outdatet cottages of the physical-keyboard-island.

    IF (somewhere in the future) BlackBerry has reconquered lost territory and had establish itself as a third (or second) force on market we can talk about exotic sidekicks and tradition and niche-products for diehard fans. But for now BlackBerry has to invest all its manpower to create a high end device which meets the taste and claims of user beyond the Blackberry-island!
    Thanks for clarifying. I agree that the thing that is best for BlackBerry may not be the best for the few individuals who prefer physical keyboards. At the same time, part of the reason that I like BlackBerry is that, so far, unlike all other companies, BlackBerry hasn't thrown physical keyboard enthusiasts under the bus.
    BitPusher2600 and anon2100101 like this.
    03-31-14 08:37 AM
  10. spikesolie's Avatar
    I have a Z30 but I almost got a Q10. I decided on a Z30 because I need to do a pretty good amount of web browsing. One nice feature of a full Qwerty keyboard with toolbelt is that I would all never need to touch the screen. This is contrary to the touchscreen trend that is dominant since everyone started copying iPhone, but it would be nice to not have to have finger funk all over the screen every time I use the phone for more than a few minutes. I'd rock a Q20.

    From a Z30
    Touchscreens existed before iphones...

    From zee coolest flicking smartphone ever
    03-31-14 03:36 PM
  11. spikesolie's Avatar
    So many false analogies in the OP. He completely missed the point that the new is better than the old if and only if it clearly works better than the old. Wake me up when a homogeneous glass slab offers the clicky tactile feedback and reliability of a good physical keyboard.

    There are design and usability tradeoffs to be made (e.g., screen size versus type-friendliness), and it is silly to demand that everyone should subscribe to your own criteria for what constitutes the best way forward for technology.
    Let's see... so how do you switch to different languages using a physical keyboard? how easy is it? What happens when your keyboard breaks? How about screen estate? And finally how easy is it to one hand use a vkb versus a physical keyboard?

    Before I round up.. are the numbers of virtual keyboard users increasing or decreasing?



    From zee coolest flicking smartphone ever
    03-31-14 03:40 PM
  12. spikesolie's Avatar
    Bb.made the wrong move. They somehow think the dwindling user base of os7 will keep them afloat. Maybe for 6 months but definitely not a long term plan.
    These are people that at some point will still leave for greener pastures... most likely not bb10. the aim should be bringing in other platforms users. At some point BlackBerry had a huge market share, so obviously most of the people on android and apple and even windows used to be on bb. The fact that they moved on (majority) means all the os7 things wasn't enough to keep them on board. Idk why BlackBerry feels that will bring them back or whether they think their dwindling fanbase is enough to survive

    From zee coolest flicking smartphone ever
    03-31-14 03:43 PM
  13. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Let's see... so how do you switch to different languages using a physical keyboard? how easy is it? What happens when your keyboard breaks? How about screen estate? And finally how easy is it to one hand use a vkb versus a physical keyboard?

    Before I round up.. are the numbers of virtual keyboard users increasing or decreasing?



    From zee coolest flicking smartphone ever
    Hold alt and press enter to switch languages from anywhere in the phone any time.


    #believeinfilm
    03-31-14 03:43 PM
  14. clickitykeys's Avatar
    Let's see... so how do you switch to different languages using a physical keyboard? how easy is it?
    Have never needed to, so can't help you there. I do occasionally use French or Spanish words with accents and that is a breeze. Just long pressing a key does the job, but it's probably similar on a touch keyboard.

    What happens when your keyboard breaks?
    Dunno. I've never had one break on me. My Curve 8310 is in its 7th year, and my Q10 is in its 10th month.

    How about screen estate?
    It's a compromise. I accept the compromise in return for a more pleasant and addictive typing experience. Every individual's mileage will vary. Ultimately, the goal is to use a device that I enjoy using day in and day out.

    And finally how easy is it to one hand use a vkb versus a physical keyboard?
    I'd say that, for one-handed typing, a VKB and PKB are about equal if word suggestions are turned on. If not, a VKB would be easier.

    Before I round up.. are the numbers of virtual keyboard users increasing or decreasing?
    Increasing, for sure. I myself had Android phones for 3.5 years before returning to the Q10. So, I'm actually very good at swype and swiftkey, but it is more fun to type on the Q10. Sometimes, I take advantage of the feel of the contoured "waterfall" keys and type without looking :-).

    If touchscreens were going out of vogue, I'd never say that touchscreen keyboards should not be manufactured. I just want touchscreen enthusiasts to extend me the same courtesy when it comes to physical keyboards.
    Last edited by clickitykeys; 03-31-14 at 05:00 PM.
    BitPusher2600 likes this.
    03-31-14 04:45 PM
  15. ALToronto's Avatar
    BlackBerry is wise to cater to the PKB crowd. It has very little chance against the two touchscreen giants, so the PKB is its USP - unique selling proposition. Chen knows that BlackBerry has become a niche product, so he's busy finding and keeping the niches where it fills a real need that others are unable to fill: physical keyboard users and the security conscious. These are the steps to profitability.

    Maybe a couple of years from now, if and when BlackBerry recovers at least some of its brand and respect, it can go head to head with the giants and be a serious contender in the touchscreen market. Right now, however, neglecting the two niches I mentioned earlier would be a fatal mistake.

    Posted via CB10
    03-31-14 04:46 PM
  16. spikesolie's Avatar
    Hold alt and press enter to switch languages from anywhere in the phone any time.


    #believeinfilm
    Sounds extra tedious but it's great to have a shortcut like that

    From zee coolest flicking smartphone ever
    03-31-14 04:58 PM
  17. spikesolie's Avatar
    Have never needed to, so can't help you there. I do occasionally use French or Spanish words with accents and that is a breeze. Just long pressing a key does the job, but it's probably similar on a touch keyboard.


    Dunno. I've never had one break on me. My Curve 8310 is in its 7th year, and my Q10 is in its 10th month.


    It's a compromise. I accept the compromise in return for a more pleasant and addictive typing experience. Every individual's mileage will vary. Ultimately, the goal is to use a device that I enjoy using day in and day out.


    I'd say that, for one-handed typing, a VKB and PKB are about equal if word suggestions are turned on. If not, a VKB would be easier.


    Increasing, for sure. I myself had Android phones for 3.5 years before returning to the Q10. So, I'm actually very good at swype and swiftkey, but it is more fun to type on the Q10. Sometimes, I type without looking :-).

    If touchscreens were going out of vogue, I'd never say that touchscreen keyboards should not be manufactured. I just want touchscreen enthusiasts to extend me the same courtesy when it comes to physical keyboards.
    Im actually not a touchscreens enthusiasts, it's just something I don't mind with the extra abilities in terms of screen real estate and it being hide able and all that stuff. Still nothing easier than typing on a laptop ah

    From zee coolest flicking smartphone ever
    03-31-14 05:01 PM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    @spikesolie, when your keyboard breaks you buy another one for a tiny price, from 7.50 for the 9900 for example, no big deal.

    How much does a Z30 screen cost?


    #believeinfilm
    03-31-14 05:09 PM
  19. kbz1960's Avatar
    Be nice if they can just keep making both but all on BB10. I have found that I can type complete crap on my Z30 and most of the time what keys I wanted to hit and didn't get corrected to what I wanted. And I don't type crap on purpose it just happens lol.
    03-31-14 05:19 PM
  20. jdcfinisher's Avatar
    Still amused by kB and bbos haters who can't deal with the fact os7 is out selling bb10. I switched from a 9900 to a Z10 ,then waited for the Q10, till I saw it and decided to pass, no belt and crappy screen . People buy what they want , it's trendy now for touch screens and BlackBerry is not trendy as a company so touchscreens don't help sales . So people that do buy BlackBerry's why are they passing on newer hardware and speed ,not price that's been ruled out, so it's either the data plan you get with the os7 or the belt, or both. Or they tried bb10 and don't like it. So who ever is whining about gestures being better take your left hand make an L turn it upside down to match your favorite gesture and move your hand to your forehead. Backwards upside down loser sign. -

    Posted via CB10
    spikesolie likes this.
    03-31-14 06:18 PM
  21. spikesolie's Avatar
    @spikesolie, when your keyboard breaks you buy another one for a tiny price, from 7.50 for the 9900 for example, no big deal.

    How much does a Z30 screen cost?


    #believeinfilm
    How much does a q10 screen cost? Lol you are missing the point. You can't break it when it's virtual... you could when it's physical though.. but hey

    From zee coolest flicking smartphone ever
    03-31-14 06:57 PM
  22. spikesolie's Avatar
    Still amused by kB and bbos haters who can't deal with the fact os7 is out selling bb10. I switched from a 9900 to a Z10 ,then waited for the Q10, till I saw it and decided to pass, no belt and crappy screen . People buy what they want , it's trendy now for touch screens and BlackBerry is not trendy as a company so touchscreens don't help sales . So people that do buy BlackBerry's why are they passing on newer hardware and speed ,not price that's been ruled out, so it's either the data plan you get with the os7 or the belt, or both. Or they tried bb10 and don't like it. So who ever is whining about gestures being better take your left hand make an L turn it upside down to match your favorite gesture and move your hand to your forehead. Backwards upside down loser sign. -

    Posted via CB10
    Os7 is outselling bb10... but not android or wp8 or apple... 3 other ecosystem that do not absolutely depend on . physical keyboards...

    So let's say for a second that bb10 absolutely sucks donkey b***... that's still really not a win . for os7 now is it.. in fact the os7 market will be on.a downward slope simply because it just can't match up anymore with its competitors. ...

    Also that one thumbs up you got is from.me... now turn it upside down and well you know

    From zee coolest flicking smartphone ever
    kbz1960 likes this.
    03-31-14 07:00 PM
  23. kbz1960's Avatar
    Still amused by kB and bbos haters who can't deal with the fact os7 is out selling bb10. I switched from a 9900 to a Z10 ,then waited for the Q10, till I saw it and decided to pass, no belt and crappy screen . People buy what they want , it's trendy now for touch screens and BlackBerry is not trendy as a company so touchscreens don't help sales . So people that do buy BlackBerry's why are they passing on newer hardware and speed ,not price that's been ruled out, so it's either the data plan you get with the os7 or the belt, or both. Or they tried bb10 and don't like it. So who ever is whining about gestures being better take your left hand make an L turn it upside down to match your favorite gesture and move your hand to your forehead. Backwards upside down loser sign. -

    Posted via CB10
    OS7 may sell more but where? Also wasn't the move to BB10 because BBOS was a dead platform? It was needed that they move from the dead platform to something different or at least that's what I was reading for a long time. They needed to change to any modern OS no matter which one. Perhaps they choose wrong but I don't think going back to BBOS is an answer either.

    And I can deal with it and acknowledge it. I'm glad they are selling something but if what has transpired over the last few years was in vein and they go back I think they are toast. Can they afford to do both for a few years, I don't have a clue but haven't they laid a whole bunch of people off?
    03-31-14 07:13 PM
  24. AnimalPak200's Avatar

    You wont expect from IBM to produce ball-head typewriter again cause you hate the smooth-running tabs of your notebook.
    You wont cancel your transatlantic journey cause Lufthansa doesnt offer propeller-driven planes.
    You wont prefer to see the BlueRay Disk of Avatar on the tube-TV set of your grandma instead on your 55" LED flatscreen.
    LOL


    Posted via CB10
    03-31-14 07:19 PM
  25. TgeekB's Avatar
    BlackBerry is wise to cater to the PKB crowd. It has very little chance against the two touchscreen giants, so the PKB is its USP - unique selling proposition. Chen knows that BlackBerry has become a niche product, so he's busy finding and keeping the niches where it fills a real need that others are unable to fill: physical keyboard users and the security conscious. These are the steps to profitability.

    Maybe a couple of years from now, if and when BlackBerry recovers at least some of its brand and respect, it can go head to head with the giants and be a serious contender in the touchscreen market. Right now, however, neglecting the two niches I mentioned earlier would be a fatal mistake.

    Posted via CB10
    Very well said and I agree with you.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    03-31-14 07:54 PM
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