03-31-14 08:09 PM
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  1. anon2100101's Avatar
    First: I loved the physical keyboard of Blackberry cause it is the best of the world... and I loved the "five-button-belt" of classic Blackberry. Its the unique charme of Blackberry devices and its the most recognizeable design-aspect of Blackberry. I love it!

    But to expect from Blackberry to continue this outdated technology is understandable but fatal.

    All these creatures of habits which accept nearly every kind of technical progress and changes (except replacing typing physical) are digging the grave for BlackBerry. BlackBerry needs to be advanced, competitive and to keep pace with the time.

    You wont expect from IBM to produce ball-head typewriter again cause you hate the smooth-running tabs of your notebook.
    You wont cancel your transatlantic journey cause Lufthansa doesnt offer propeller-driven planes.
    You wont prefer to see the BlueRay Disk of Avatar on the tube-TV set of your grandma instead on your 55" LED flatscreen.

    But some BB-User do. While the rest of the world talks with siri and try to establish voice interfaces some BB-user wont give up their preferences for steam-powered stuff.

    It woudnt be so fatal, if this kind of BB-User would be quiet and purchase a Bold9900 with OS 7. But they force BB inderectly to mutate the BETTER OS10 backwards to OS7 cause they are not willing to be frank for unfamilar keyboards.

    I never thought (in the past) that I ever will use a full-touch-device cause of their ****tier keyboard, but after using a Z10 and Z30 I doesnt want to see a physical keyboard anymore!

    To make it clear: I DONT talk about the sense or need or drawbacks of technical progress and I dont want to declare all mechanical BB-User to subhumans, but how would you think about an loyal iPhone-User who leaves apple cause the iPhone 6 has no "mechanical" return-button anymore...

    Blackberry should offer the OS7 with Bold9900 and maybe a follower of the Q10, but Lenovo would never establish a ball-head typewriter just to glorify the IBM-roots and to satisfy the diehard old school users....

    My POV- not arguable.

    :-)
    03-30-14 05:41 AM
  2. simonspatial1's Avatar
    I agree with most what you are saying. The traditionalists are not passionate enough to try the new OS. Before I got my Z10 I had the torch 9800 and I was watching every tutorial and review I could about blackberry 10. This is so that when I finally got my hands on a bb10 (early summer last year) I could use it with ease and enjoy all the features.
    I didn't think the average consumer was so afraid of change in this technologic age. However hopefully with a balance of tool belted devices and none tool belted devices we'll see better numbers.

    Posted via CB10
    anon2100101 likes this.
    03-30-14 07:00 AM
  3. BB Super Junior's Avatar
    First: I loved the physical keyboard of Blackberry cause it is the best of the world... and I loved the "five-button-belt" of classic Blackberry. Its the unique charme of Blackberry devices and its the most recognizeable design-aspect of Blackberry. I love it!

    But to expect from Blackberry to continue this outdated technology is understandable but fatal.

    All these creatures of habits which accept nearly every kind of technical progress and changes (except replacing typing physical) are digging the grave for BlackBerry. BlackBerry needs to be advanced, competitive and to keep pace with the time.

    You wont expect from IBM to produce ball-head typewriter again cause you hate the smooth-running tabs of your notebook.
    You wont cancel your transatlantic journey cause Lufthansa doesnt offer propeller-driven planes.
    You wont prefer to see the BlueRay Disk of Avatar on the tube-TV set of your grandma instead on your 55" LED flatscreen.

    But some BB-User do. While the rest of the world talks with siri and try to establish voice interfaces some BB-user wont give up their preferences for steam-powered stuff.

    It woudnt be so fatal, if this kind of BB-User would be quiet and purchase a Bold9900 with OS 7. But they force BB inderectly to mutate the BETTER OS10 backwards to OS7 cause they are not willing to be frank for unfamilar keyboards.

    I never thought (in the past) that I ever will use a full-touch-device cause of their ****tier keyboard, but after using a Z10 and Z30 I doesnt want to see a physical keyboard anymore!

    To make it clear: I DONT talk about the sense or need or drawbacks of technical progress and I dont want to declare all mechanical BB-User to subhumans, but how would you think about an loyal iPhone-User who leaves apple cause the iPhone 6 has no "mechanical" return-button anymore...

    Blackberry should offer the OS7 with Bold9900 and maybe a follower of the Q10, but Lenovo would never establish a ball-head typewriter just to glorify the IBM-roots and to satisfy the diehard old school users....

    My POV- not arguable.

    :-)
    But you would trade in a current smart watch for a new mechanical Rolex...


    Aka S.Jizzle Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2141
    Johberry likes this.
    03-30-14 07:06 AM
  4. sinsin07's Avatar
    But you would trade in a current smart watch for a new mechanical Rolex...


    Aka S.Jizzle Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2141
    In his case it would probably be from Lange & Sohne's or Muhle Glashutte.

    His tag line: Germans are know-it-all! Trust me- Im German...and know it!
    keepthetorch and anon2100101 like this.
    03-30-14 08:10 AM
  5. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    I guess acceptance is the first step right, but I am one of the traditionalists you are sick of (and I'm sorry that stance annoys you), but honestly, your argument is fairly well presented. Kudos.

    I kind of feel comparing tube TVs to 1080p for example is a bit of a stretch, I don't feel the tech that BlackBerry would be bringing forward in something like the Q20 is a terrible idea, I rather see it (just to wing an analogy of my own) as people who still prefer a physical volume control on their in-dash head unit for the car rather than all touch display. No, I don't think BlackBerry should focus their device market entirely on the traditional user. I say again if my tastes make me a dinosaur I'm rather satisfied with that because I can get everything done I need to do, but my needs are only mine, not everyone else's so I can certainly acknowledge that bit of truth.

    I hope sincerely for the happy medium, even for the stuff I personally don't care for (as I can't see people actually utilizing the full capability of say an octo-core chip or 4-8gb of ram on their mobile device), but truth be, the options need to be there. Can't we all agree that the more versatile and flexible BlackBerry can be with their product offerings, the better chances they have to make sales? I would love to see a kick*ss followup to the Z30, even though I wouldn't want one because I know I'm outnumbered in loving a physical keyboard as well as the notion of both touchscreen and precision pointer control with a trackpad at my disposal. As such, I maintain BlackBerry shouldn't focus on just one market or another. Guess there's little more we can actually do other than watch the show progress and see.
    acovey and anon2100101 like this.
    03-30-14 08:47 AM
  6. madcat72's Avatar
    If you compare a tube tv to an lcd or plasma, the tv had an evolution, to this day the basic function of the tube TV is there, we still a power, channel up down buttons, they even created a remote to allow you to operate the tv from a distence. The TV evolved without losing the basics.

    To compare what bb has done is completely different, they have alienated their current customer base. I agree BB10 has got to be the future but to create a new OS and omit what made a blackberry a blackberry was a mistake. What I wanted out of BB10 was a continuity and added features. We got the more feature part while loosing the basic.
    03-30-14 10:09 AM
  7. CecilTsunami's Avatar
    After talking to a coworker yesterday, I'm starting to think the announcement of bringing back the 9900 coupled with the announcement of the "classic" line is making the uninformed consumer more confused.

    My coworker informed me that John Chen said the new BlackBerry phones were no good, and so they were bringing back the old ones. He compared it to "new Coke" and told me the old phones were that much better than the new ones. This is what he took from what he read.

    I'm not saying everyone is that dumb, but some are. Some don't realize the classic is going to be an additional option and not the way of the future for all lines.

    I did get really angry and gave him a blast about it. As he stood in my doorway "educating" me about phones he's never used I couldn't help it.

    Standing in my doorway trying to school me on phones while he uses a flip phone so old that they're turning off the band it runs on next month.

    Okay maybe I'm still mad. LOL.

    Posted via CB10
    anon2100101 likes this.
    03-30-14 10:12 AM
  8. TGR1's Avatar
    User interface elements are very intimate. We like things the way we like them, make them part of our habits and muscle memory, and mostly dislike getting pushed out of our comfort zones. It's a very understandable part of being a human because we have the luxury of choosing what we want to adapt to, of defining what is "best" for our needs.

    The legacy user base is the one remaining stronghold for BBRY. Before mocking their stubborn wants, recall that the vast majority of others did not go BB10, they left the platform. BB10 will not keep BBRY afloat. While I for one am not a fan of the physical keyboard or the old OS and also think it is crazy to keep two OSs going, BBRY has to do what it can to survive and if it means catering to the legacy user base, so be it. It's definitely not a long term strategy. Hopefully BBRY's engineers can find a way to satisfy both groups in the next BBOS. They have to.
    03-30-14 10:25 AM
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Move the Ludites into modern times slowly if that's what it takes. I would like to see the classic UI on top of BB10 as an option. Microsoft did that in parts of Windows. Even 8 which is quite different has the option to access some things the old way (Windows Key+X key).
    Haven't BB users always been Ludites in the first place?

    I went from a 3G HTC with front and rear cameras, video calling, gps with Tom Tom navigation or Google maps, wifi etc to my first BlackBerry..........

    The Curve 8320, no gps, no 3G, a 2mp rear only camera and that was the high end model (just before the bold 9000 came out)

    The classic BB customer has always been a "ludite" and BB should've stuck with them


    #believeinfilm
    Johberry and anon2100101 like this.
    03-30-14 10:49 AM
  10. BBUniq01's Avatar
    The PKB is not backwards technology IMO. It is a practical way of communication. The Classic Q20 design, just like the Bold, marries the best of both worlds - the new and the old. I do hope that Chen will offer the Classic as well as an all touch device. I have enjoyed using my Z10 and it had a wonderful keyboard. But the track pad, and the belt sure made some functions a lot faster and although I can type pretty well on my Z10, I was definitely faster on my Bold.



    Loving my Zed 10!!
    Johberry, anon2100101 and acovey like this.
    03-30-14 11:43 AM
  11. Toodeurep's Avatar
    For me, the flaw in the op logic is that you treat the keyboard as a way to type, for guys like me, it is much much more.

    Sad really, I watch people all day have their left hand on the keyboard of their PC yet still use the mouse to switch programs or drag the mouse pointer down to the start button. All the while, they could simply use that left hand to Alt+Tab to quick switch open programs or press the Windows key.

    Even when it comes to typing, switching back a forth between the numbers and characters tabs of a virtual keyboard makes me sad. I didn't have to worry about that on my 9810. The fact of the matter is a virtual keyboard is actually the step back wards.
    acovey likes this.
    03-30-14 12:10 PM
  12. TgeekB's Avatar
    For me, the flaw in the op logic is that you treat the keyboard as a way to type, for guys like me, it is much much more.

    Sad really, I watch people all day have their left hand on the keyboard of their PC yet still use the mouse to switch programs or drag the mouse pointer down to the start button. All the while, they could simply use that left hand to Alt+Tab to quick switch open programs or press the Windows key.

    Even when it comes to typing, switching back a forth between the numbers and characters tabs of a virtual keyboard makes me sad. I didn't have to worry about that on my 9810. The fact of the matter is a virtual keyboard is actually the step back wards.
    It adds screen real estate.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    03-30-14 12:15 PM
  13. TGR1's Avatar
    For me, the flaw in the op logic is that you treat the keyboard as a way to type, for guys like me, it is much much more.

    Sad really, I watch people all day have their left hand on the keyboard of their PC yet still use the mouse to switch programs or drag the mouse pointer down to the start button. All the while, they could simply use that left hand to Alt+Tab to quick switch open programs or press the Windows key.

    Even when it comes to typing, switching back a forth between the numbers and characters tabs of a virtual keyboard makes me sad. I didn't have to worry about that on my 9810. The fact of the matter is a virtual keyboard is actually the step back wards.
    IMO not in this global economy and travel. Multilingual keyboards are much easier on virtual keyboards. There comes a point when keyboard shortcuts are no longer efficient because it's too hard to remember so many or less common ones.

    I am also interested in seeing whether "Crackberry thumb" is an issue with virtual keyboards. That used to be infamous in its time.
    spikesolie and anon2100101 like this.
    03-30-14 12:19 PM
  14. Toodeurep's Avatar
    It adds screen real estate.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    Correct, thinness and weight reduction are improved with a VKB. My lead engineer uses a Droid 4 (not sure exactly), it has a PKB, he doesn't have screen real estate issues and it feels well balanced and not too thick to me.
    03-30-14 12:33 PM
  15. TgeekB's Avatar
    Correct, thinness and weight reduction are improved with a VKB. My lead engineer uses a Droid 4 (not sure exactly), it has a PKB, he doesn't have screen real estate issues and it feels well balanced and not too thick to me.
    I think the shortcuts you correctly point out are countered by other advantages a vkb brings. Its really choice and I can see both working for different people.

    I just bought a used Q10 and am enjoying the simplicity. It can't do everything my Nexus 5 does but it will fill a nitch. I don't always need a large phone or tablet with me.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    03-30-14 12:37 PM
  16. Xenolock's Avatar
    I have a Z30 but I almost got a Q10. I decided on a Z30 because I need to do a pretty good amount of web browsing. One nice feature of a full Qwerty keyboard with toolbelt is that I would all never need to touch the screen. This is contrary to the touchscreen trend that is dominant since everyone started copying iPhone, but it would be nice to not have to have finger funk all over the screen every time I use the phone for more than a few minutes. I'd rock a Q20.

    From a Z30
    acovey likes this.
    03-30-14 12:46 PM
  17. Ray III's Avatar
    I'll take the "steam-powered stuff" over the current BB10 system of trying to drive a cart by gesturing to the horse which way to go.

    I got no problem with replacing the core OS with something more powerful that they can build on for mobile computing, but the interface has to be productive, not a gamer's fantasy.
    acovey likes this.
    03-30-14 12:57 PM
  18. Toodeurep's Avatar
    I think the shortcuts you correctly point out are countered by other advantages a vkb brings. Its really choice and I can see both working for different people.

    I just bought a used Q10 and am enjoying the simplicity. It can't do everything my Nexus 5 does but it will fill a nitch. I don't always need a large phone or tablet with me.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    I guess I should make it clear that I am a Torch 9810 guy. To me, the PKB, VKB combo piece is the best form factor ever imagined. I really wish technology would improve it in the direction of thinness and weight.
    03-30-14 12:58 PM
  19. gtredman's Avatar
    I love this discussion because I am a sample in this whole conundrum . I rock a Q10 and love it but this was not my preference I love touchscreens ,unfortunately I am on contract with sprint and I used to have a torch 9810 before and I loved that too, I am a blackberry guy at heart, I couldn't wait for BB10 to arrive and when it did I was hoping and waited for sprint to bring their touchscreen they said they had bypassed the Z10 for and it never materialized so I ended up resorting back to qwerty in Q10 just to get my hands on B10 and god knows I love this phone but I still lust for a Z30! So people will adapt given an equal chance but they will not stretch themselves just to adapt. So these OS7 devices that are still being sold are mainly in third world markets, they are the cheapest choice for a vital communication tool ,BBM is very popular in the Caribbean and other third world countries where money is scarce so BBM is vital for cross country communication txt for free! In my honest opinion these are the major factors for the demand for these phones NOT QWERTY Keyboards! Give all these Caribbean, Latin and South American and other developing world consumers a Z10 for the same price they paid for their Bold or Curve , hell yea they will Rip out your hands! so this is my Contribution and somebody please let John Chen Know this and stop this Mickey Mouse Qwerty reverting to producing bold instead of offering people with bolds the chance of trading it in for a Z10 free or at a minimal cost.
    BB_Junky and anon2100101 like this.
    03-30-14 01:18 PM
  20. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    I guess I should make it clear that I am a Torch 9810 guy. To me, the PKB, VKB combo piece is the best form factor ever imagined. I really wish technology would improve it in the direction of thinness and weight.
    I have to wonder about the production cost of those, but all in all I have to agree. The Torch was probably the "best of both worlds" approach.
    acovey likes this.
    03-30-14 01:18 PM
  21. TgeekB's Avatar
    I guess I should make it clear that I am a Torch 9810 guy. To me, the PKB, VKB combo piece is the best form factor ever imagined. I really wish technology would improve it in the direction of thinness and weight.
    I had a 9810 (still have it but don't use it). It was a nice phone at the time. I enjoyed the slider format and wouldn't mind seeing a new one. I just think it doesn't have a big enough market.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    03-30-14 01:24 PM
  22. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Haven't BB users always been Ludites in the first place?

    I went from a 3G HTC with front and rear cameras, video calling, gps with Tom Tom navigation or Google maps, wifi etc to my first BlackBerry..........

    The Curve 8320, no gps, no 3G, a 2mp rear only camera and that was the high end model (just before the bold 9000 came out)

    The classic BB customer has always been a "ludite" and BB should've stuck with them


    #believeinfilm
    The problem with that thinking is that the ludites numbers are dwindling and will never support this company for the long term. That belief is what set RIM on the downward spiral in the first place. It was a dead end with no growth potential; now it has negative growth potential. The resumption of production of BB7 devices is a bandaid on top of a bandaid, nothing more. It is simply to try to stem more bleeding while they build up BB10 in the enterprise, which is taking longer than anyone had planned; it is not and cannot be part of the long term strategy.

    Maybe BBOS devices are still outselling BB10. But how long have they been out vs BB10? And still those numbers themselves are falling fast. That's no way to build sustained growth. And do NOT attempt to compare that to the long-term performance of BB10, because that book isn't close to being written yet.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    03-30-14 01:44 PM
  23. mnc76's Avatar
    I think the Q20 is a decent middle ground.

    It's a BB10 phone for traditionalists. Yes it has a trackpad and physical back button etc... but it's STILL BB10! And that's the important part.

    I may step off the BlackBerry wagon for a generation (1-2 years) while they focus on the traditional user and the enterprise market.

    But I'll be back when they start serving the consumer market again with high-spec all-touch phones without 'belts'.

    I love the Z10 and the new OS (BB10) just as it is (but with better Android app support -- yes I am the complete opposite of a 'traditionalist'). I don't want the belt (though a discrete (almost invisible) trackpad would be cool... even Apple is considering adding trackpad functionality into the home button!! An invisible (or at least flush) trackpad underneath the "BlackBerry" logo on the Z10 would be perfect: you get a trackpad but you don't lose the aesthetic of a clean slab-phone.)

    The immediate future will be highly keyboard-centric according to Chen. I'll be back for the Z50 or Z70... whenever they feel they have stabilized the company enough to come back to all-touch for users like me, who want the modern productivity features and multitasking of BB10, but also want a high-spec, multimedia-capable device with a big screen and great camera.

    Posted via CB10
    03-30-14 03:52 PM
  24. lnichols's Avatar
    To compare what bb has done is completely different, they have alienated their current customer base.
    I switched from BBOS to a Z10, after 5 years of BBOS use. I don't feel alienated at all. I am way more productive on my Z10 than I ever was on any BBOS device. I use it way more than I ever used any BBOS device. I am way more satisfied with the complete package than I ever was with BBOS. So not all of us were alienated!

    Posted via CB10
    spikesolie and mnc76 like this.
    03-30-14 04:15 PM
  25. keepthetorch's Avatar
    I guess I should make it clear that I am a Torch 9810 guy. To me, the PKB, VKB combo piece is the best form factor ever imagined. I really wish technology would improve it in the direction of thinness and weight.
    Good to see a fellow Torch guy. I have the 9850 and for me moving to a z10 or z30 won't be much of a problem IMO. I did like the old curve keyboard as I just let me thumbnails grow out a bit (didn't color them though). Does yours have the slide-out keyboard? On the 9850 Torch I never use the trackpad - only for clicking maybe a small icon or something like that where my fat fingers get in the way. Screen real estate as #tgeekB said is a good thing for older eyes like myself. Have gotten so used to the VKB the switch should be OK for me anyway. Can't get my hands on any BB devices to try them out. Really like the size of my Torch so the move to the z30 will be quite a change. Use a holster but will have to be careful.
    acovey likes this.
    03-30-14 05:35 PM
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