06-07-18 02:19 PM
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  1. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    NYT article:
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ml?nytapp=true

    Complete with a detailed description on how private data could be retrieved via the BlackBerry Hub, on a BlackBerry Z10:

    "After connecting to Facebook, the BlackBerry Hub app was able to retrieve detailed data on 556 of Mr. LaForgia's friends, including relationship status, religious and political leanings and events they planned to attend. Facebook has said that it cut off third parties' access to this type of information in 2015, but that it does not consider BlackBerry a third party in this case"

    Very interesting not just how OEMs had such overreaching access but how BlackBerry is implicated here directly, even using the Z10 as an example Lol! Timed impeccably just prior to the release of a new BlackBerry phone, of course.

    Looks like BlackBerry had their hands in the cookie jar just like everyone else, even if as unwitting participants as the article appears to suggest. Disappointing but probably a much needed dose of reality for all those still clinging to BB10 and BlackBerry in general as some sort of private and secure alternative to iOS / Android / other OEMs.
    Last edited by panopticon; 06-03-18 at 10:09 PM.
    06-03-18 09:56 PM
  2. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Prior to 2015, if a developer wanted ANY user data - including the "display name" for a FB user - FB gave you EVERYTHING about that user - and it was up to the developer to parse out the pieces that they needed.

    So, a developer who was writing a game and wanted to have a leaderboard would need the account names for the leaderboard - "JoeBobBrigs" and "AwesomeSarah" and "CaptainFantastic" - but they'd get those people's ENTIRE profiles: real name, address, phone number, email, etc. etc. (assuming those people had entered that information into their accounts). It was a complete free-for-all, and even a conscientious developer couldn't JUST ask for account names - it was all or nothing.

    Of course that's long been fixed, but it goes to show you that the OS matters very little if you are using an app that is as leaky as a screen door on a submarine. It wasn't BB10's fault that those people's information was so easily available, but at the same time, BB10 did absolutely nothing to stop it (though it's unrealistic to have expected otherwise in the first place, though some still do).

    The funny thing is that this stuff was being talked about as early as 2012 (that I'm aware of), and I'm sure it was well known even earlier than that. Most people just didn't CARE at the time - and only a small percentage more care about it today. But it was never a secret - developers of FB-related apps certainly all would have found out very quickly, and did.
    06-03-18 10:11 PM
  3. thurask's Avatar
    Very interesting not just how OEMs had such overreaching access but how BlackBerry is implicated here directly, even using the Z10 as an example Lol!
    06-03-18 10:34 PM
  4. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    Prior to 2015, if a developer wanted ANY user data - including the "display name" for a FB user - FB gave you EVERYTHING about that user - and it was up to the developer to parse out the pieces that they needed.

    So, a developer who was writing a game and wanted to have a leaderboard would need the account names for the leaderboard - "JoeBobBrigs" and "AwesomeSarah" and "CaptainFantastic" - but they'd get those people's ENTIRE profiles: real name, address, phone number, email, etc. etc. (assuming those people had entered that information into their accounts). It was a complete free-for-all, and even a conscientious developer couldn't JUST ask for account names - it was all or nothing.

    Of course that's long been fixed, but it goes to show you that the OS matters very little if you are using an app that is as leaky as a screen door on a submarine. It wasn't BB10's fault that those people's information was so easily available, but at the same time, BB10 did absolutely nothing to stop it (though it's unrealistic to have expected otherwise in the first place, though some still do).

    The funny thing is that this stuff was being talked about as early as 2012 (that I'm aware of), and I'm sure it was well known even earlier than that. Most people just didn't CARE at the time - and only a small percentage more care about it today. But it was never a secret - developers of FB-related apps certainly all would have found out very quickly, and did.
    Well, not exactly. This article is specifically about device manufacturers entering into data sharing partnerships with Facebook. This is a lot more than just sloppy app code - and BlackBerry IS implicated here, along with many others.
    06-03-18 10:34 PM
  5. z10Jobe's Avatar
    And people use facebook...why?
    Q10SQN100-1/10.3.3.3216

    Posted via CB10
    06-03-18 10:55 PM
  6. joeldf's Avatar
    And people use facebook...why?
    Q10SQN100-1/10.3.3.3216

    Posted via CB10
    Keep track of family in other cities or states, neighborhoods use their FB pages to keep track of what's going on in the area - strangers selling something door-to-door - the whole neighborhood will know within minutes...

    Stuff like that has a use.

    I understand it. I, personally, rarely use it.

    In fact, after I got my Z10 in the summer of 2013, I deleted it off the phone later that fall. The FB app alone was bleeding 1.5 Gb of data each month. And I only checked it maybe twice a week.

    After that, I only checked FB through the browser.

    Now, on my S8, the FB app is disabled (can't be deleted), and I still only check FB with the browser.
    06-03-18 11:16 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    Well, not exactly. This article is specifically about device manufacturers entering into data sharing partnerships with Facebook. This is a lot more than just sloppy app code - and BlackBerry IS implicated here, along with many others.
    So what did they actually DO with it?

    "Usher Lieberman, a BlackBerry spokesman, said in a statement that the company used Facebook data only to give its own customers access to their Facebook networks and messages. Mr. Lieberman said that the company “did not collect or mine the Facebook data of our customers,” adding that “BlackBerry has always been in the business of protecting, not monetizing, customer data.” "

    Don't forget that BlackBerry had a custom Facebook implementation along with HUB integration. How was this app supposed to function if it didn't have full access to the user's Facebook account?
    Last edited by conite; 06-03-18 at 11:58 PM.
    Drenis, eshropshire and PHughes like this.
    06-03-18 11:43 PM
  8. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    So what did they actually DO with it?

    "Usher Lieberman, a BlackBerry spokesman, said in a statement that the company used Facebook data only to give its own customers access to their Facebook networks and messages. Mr. Lieberman said that the company “did not collect or mine the Facebook data of our customers,” adding that “BlackBerry has always been in the business of protecting, not monetizing, customer data.” "

    Don't forget that BlackBerry had a custom Facebook implementation along with HUB integration. How was this app supposed to function if it didn't have full access to the user's Facebook account?
    Well that's the thing isn't it...no one knows. The point is they went along with it, were willing participants as were all the major manufacturers, and at the very least had access to it. That in itself constitutes a breach. Whether or not you trusted the company with your data or not is obviously the key issue. I for one believe there was nothing nefarious about BlackBerry's participation in Facebook's gross negligence, but then again it is only because I am giving BlackBerry the benefit of the doubt. I certainly don't have any evidence to support that belief (other than what we hear officially from BlackBerry's legal department) and there is certainly ample cause for suspicion, not just of BlackBerry but any of the OEMs that participated in this...which was basically the entire industry.

    I also find it fascinating they chose to showcase the BlackBerry Hub app on a BB10 device of all things to showcase this...and somehow got it to work!? Wasn't the Facebook app on BB10 discontinued a long time ago? It's incredible the lengths some people in the media are still taking to drag BlackBerry's name through the mud, when they could just as easily (perhaps more so) have picked on Apple, Samsung, etc.
    06-04-18 09:42 AM
  9. conite's Avatar
    Well that's the thing isn't it...no one knows. The point is they went along with it, were willing participants as were all the major manufacturers, and at the very least had access to it. That in itself constitutes a breach. Whether or not you trusted the company with your data or not is obviously the key issue. I for one believe there was nothing nefarious about BlackBerry's participation in Facebook's gross negligence, but then again it is only because I am giving BlackBerry the benefit of the doubt. I certainly don't have any evidence to support that belief (other than what we hear officially from BlackBerry's legal department) and there is certainly ample cause for suspicion, not just of BlackBerry but any of the OEMs that participated in this...which was basically the entire industry.

    I also find it fascinating they chose to showcase the BlackBerry Hub app on a BB10 device of all things to showcase this...and somehow got it to work!? Wasn't the Facebook app on BB10 discontinued a long time ago? It's incredible the lengths some people in the media are still taking to drag BlackBerry's name through the mud, when they could just as easily have picked on Apple, Samsung, etc.
    How do you develop a Facebook app without having full access to your Facebook account?

    It was a custom solution that did not limit itself to the publicly available APIs.

    This is simply bad reporting from someone that does not understand the technology - at least in BlackBerry's case.
    eshropshire likes this.
    06-04-18 09:47 AM
  10. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    How do you develop a Facebook app without having full access to your Facebook account?

    It was a custom solution that did not limit itself to the publicly available APIs.

    This is simply bad reporting from someone that does not understand the technology.
    Again, rightly or wrongly, I think of lot of us expected more from BlackBerry and to not simply be aiding and abetting the irresponsible data mining practices of others. Was BlackBerry at one point not offering to write the app for Facebook for them after they decided to pull support for BB10? Lol.

    I totally understand what you saying...but there is mud on everyone's hands here.
    06-04-18 09:57 AM
  11. conite's Avatar
    Again, rightly or wrongly, I think of lot of us expected more from BlackBerry and to not simply be aiding and abetting the irresponsible data mining practices of others. Was BlackBerry at one point not offering to write the app for Facebook for them after they decided to pull support for BB10? Lol.

    I totally understand what you saying...but there is mud on everyone's hands here.
    I'm baffled as to what mud Blackberry has on their hands. They needed the data to make their app work. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    eshropshire likes this.
    06-04-18 09:58 AM
  12. Bla1ze's Avatar
    I'm baffled as to what mud Blackberry has on their hands. They needed the data to make their app work. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Confused about the argument as well. As far as I see it, I'd rather BB have the data then Cambridge Analytica. There's good data hosts and bad data hosts. BlackBerry has a pretty stellar record of being a good data host while Cambridge Analytica is clearly a bad data host.
    06-04-18 10:08 AM
  13. meilenstein's Avatar
    BlackBerry customers have always cried for deeper, more complete Hub integration with certain apps. In 2013-14, it was Facebook; everyone wanted to post updates, upload media, chat with friends, make calls, etc. right inside Hub. For a time, it worked, and it was excellent.

    Now it comes out that they gave their customers what they wanted, and you're using loaded words like "implicate," "aid & abet," and claiming BlackBerry was "caught."

    What, precisely, would you prefer BlackBerry and 60 other OEM's to have done in response to customer demand?

    Posted via CB10
    06-04-18 10:15 AM
  14. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Main thing I got... was you don't want to use old software that hasn't been undated with newer polices and standards. That's the only reason the Times Reporter was able to do what he did... he had to find a phone still using old standards. Hasn't the Facebook App been gone from BB10 for a few years now...
    06-04-18 10:18 AM
  15. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    I'm baffled as to what mud Blackberry has on their hands. They needed the data to make their app work. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Of course you are baffled. Hear no evil and see no evil when it comes to BlackBerry. That is always your position. Lol.

    They clearly knew what information was being shared and how invasive it was. Secondly, they could have helped themselves to said questionable data. Did they? Did any of the other OEMs? Well that's the question isn't it.

    BlackBerry has been singled out by the New York Times and I have to think that right or wrong, this is going to inflict some damage to their reputation.

    And you didn't answer my question about how the New York Times was even able to get this to work on a Z10 with no functional Facebook app. Perhaps in your overzealousness to defend BlackBerry you don't even realize I haven't actually taken sides here at all...
    06-04-18 10:24 AM
  16. brookie229's Avatar
    this is going to inflict some damage to their reputation.
    lol, can the reputation BE any more damaged. It's a lost cause in the USA (iPhoneLand).
    eshropshire likes this.
    06-04-18 10:27 AM
  17. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    lol, can the reputation BE any more damaged. It's a lost cause in the USA (iPhoneLand).
    You make it sound like BlackBerry doesn't have anything to lose.

    Maybe, if they see their main revenue stream for devices going forward coming from suing companies like Facebook for royalties, and not licensing revenues from BlackBerry device sales.
    06-04-18 10:31 AM
  18. brookie229's Avatar
    You make it sound like BlackBerry doesn't have anything to lose.

    Maybe, if they see their main revenue stream for devices going forward coming from suing companies like Facebook for royalties, and not licensing revenues from BlackBerry device sales.
    Well, what with all the paranoia and protectionism going on in the USA it's not really possible for any Chinese company to get anywhere. If I was BlackBerry Mobile, I would just chalk it up as a lost cause, quit trying and concentrate on other areas of the globe
    06-04-18 10:35 AM
  19. conite's Avatar
    Of course you are baffled. Hear no evil and see no evil when it comes to BlackBerry. That is always your position. Lol.

    They clearly knew what information was being shared and how invasive it was. Secondly, they could have helped themselves to said questionable data. Did they? Did any of the other OEMs? Well that's the question isn't it.
    But they needed to data to make the app work. What's the point of writing a Facebook app that can't access your Facebook account? This isn't rocket science.
    eshropshire likes this.
    06-04-18 10:45 AM
  20. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    BlackBerry customers have always cried for deeper, more complete Hub integration with certain apps. In 2013-14, it was Facebook; everyone wanted to post updates, upload media, chat with friends, make calls, etc. right inside Hub. For a time, it worked, and it was excellent.

    Now it comes out that they gave their customers what they wanted, and you're using loaded words like "implicate," "aid & abet," and claiming BlackBerry was "caught."

    What, precisely, would you prefer BlackBerry and 60 other OEM's to have done in response to customer demand?

    Posted via CB10
    Then I suppose it becomes a question of sacrificing your security and privacy reputation for the sake of commercial viability.

    At the very least, BlackBerry is in no position to preach to the industry about taking the high ground. All they can say is they did nothing with the data from these extremely invasive practices, even though they were willing participants...and hope that people believe them.
    06-04-18 10:49 AM
  21. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    But they needed to data to make the app work. What's the point of writing a Facebook app that can't access your Facebook account? This isn't rocket science.
    So piggy-backing on someone else's incompetence is excusable then. My bad.
    06-04-18 10:50 AM
  22. meilenstein's Avatar
    BlackBerry customers have always cried for deeper, more complete Hub integration with certain apps. In 2013-14, it was Facebook; everyone wanted to post updates, upload media, chat with friends, make calls, etc. right inside Hub. For a time, it worked, and it was excellent.

    Now it comes out that they gave their customers what they wanted, and you're using loaded words like "implicate," "aid & abet," and claiming BlackBerry was "caught."

    What, precisely, would you prefer BlackBerry and 60 other OEM's to have done in response to customer demand?

    Posted via CB10
    I'll repeat the question since you didn't answer it.

    Posted via CB10
    Uglyindian likes this.
    06-04-18 10:52 AM
  23. conite's Avatar
    So piggy-backing on someone else's incompetence is excusable then. My bad.
    I think you're missing something.

    BlackBerry needs Facebook account info to offer Facebook account info to the user. If you don't just use the standard, public APIs (which BlackBerry didn't because of the necessary customisations), you need to enter into an agreement to be able to access the raw data.
    06-04-18 10:54 AM
  24. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    I think you're missing something.

    BlackBerry needs Facebook account info to offer Facebook account info to the user. If you don't just use the standard, public APIs (which BlackBerry didn't because of the necessary customisations), you need to enter into an agreement to be able to access the raw data.
    Right. And it seems, like everyone else, in so doing they agreed to access whatever raw data Facebook made available to them, with impunity.
    06-04-18 10:58 AM
  25. conite's Avatar
    Right. And it seems, like everyone else, in so doing they agreed to access whatever raw data Facebook made available to them, with impunity.
    Impunity? No data, no app.

    Are you implying that BlackBerry subsequently harvested this data from its users' devices? That's a whole other story, and denied by BlackBerry.
    06-04-18 11:01 AM
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