07-07-16 04:19 PM
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  1. ssbtech's Avatar
    No, it's more that they know buying it separately is expensive, and they don't want to pay for it.
    And now Office is slowly becoming standard and Microsoft has finally come up with a licencing model that makes it affordable for home users to legally install Office on their computers and tablets. Years of people expecting this basic functionality to be included on their PCs has led to these changes.


    Windows hasn't always had an app store built in, and Windows's app store is still focused on "Metro" apps rather than full desktop applications, so there's no real comparison. But, yes, I'd love Windows without IE/Edge built in.
    I'm not sure how you plan on downloading a browser without a browser, but most people would prefer some internet capability on a brand new computer rather than having to go to a friend's place and download something else on a USB stick.

    Many people prefer the CHOICE of having the file manager they prefer vs. whatever the phone manufacturer wants to give you.
    What is choice for some people simply looks like a carelessly put together OS (fragmentation) to me. What I quite like about BB10 is the consistency in appearance/functionality/navigation across the bundled native apps. This is often not the case with Android. Hell, Android is still struggling with how to put menus within reach.
    01-04-16 11:17 AM
  2. tufcustomer's Avatar
    No app is free and neither are Google services.
    Few developers work for free and certainly Google is NOT a charity.
    You pay with your data and your privacy.
    I assume the latter are worth nothing to you.
    Ah, another assumption. If you want to talk privacy and data it goes beyond apps. Can you definitively show me that BlackBerry makes you more secure than other phones without BES/BIS? That's how the average consumer uses their BlackBerry. What makes you feel secure? Is it the fact that your carrier has access to all Internet traffic and probably everything else you do on their network, regardless of you being on a BlackBerry? Is it the third party email you use on your BlackBerry to send your personal data and conversations? You think it's safe because you're using a BlackBerry? Most of those services are free be it Gmail, Hotmail whatever. Is it the cloud you store data on? Is that safe because you're using a BlackBerry? Maybe the social networks with your life on it, because heck you're using a BlackBerry so those are secure now too. There are free apps in BlackBerry World too, are you suggesting to never use them? How do we know the paid apps don't mine our data too? Maybe we should just not use apps at all.

    Point is, you can try to live in a bubble, but the reality is there is so much reliance on the corporations providing free services it's almost unavoidable. You can take your precautions, be smart with your data by avoid social networks etc, but unless you live in a cave your kidding yourself if you think your 100% secure. If your running BES/BIS sure you probably have a level of security above the others, but for the average user without it your no better than the iPhones or various android devices.

    Posted via CB10
    ubizmo, kbz1960, TgeekB and 1 others like this.
    01-04-16 11:28 AM
  3. Soulstream's Avatar
    What is choice for some people simply looks like a carelessly put together OS (fragmentation) to me. What I quite like about BB10 is the consistency in appearance/functionality/navigation across the bundled native apps. This is often not the case with Android. Hell, Android is still struggling with how to put menus within reach.
    It's easy for BB10 (as is for iOS) o be consistent with bundled apps because just one company produces both the UI and the apps. Google has began to standardize app design with their material design language. Most OEMs have started to offer their own apps with material design (even BB did the same with BBM and their apps on the priv).

    And about reaching menus, I find the swipe from left edge gesture to bring in the menu quite convenient and it's the first thing I try to do with most app now.
    01-04-16 11:34 AM
  4. Ronindan's Avatar
    The op is confusing BB's implementation of android as an actual problem of android. On a brand new nexus device, there will be folder of the basic google apps (chrome, photos (gallery), video, etc... And it is up to the end users to use these apps or find alternatives. This is how it is with nexus devices.

    Other oems does the same: Samsung, LG, Sony, Motorola etc... pick and choose what apps they wish to be pre-installed on their phones. (And some of these oems got carried away with these pre-installed apps.) BB could have done the same; they could have ported some their native apps to Android and pre-installed it on the priv. Rather they focused on the hub and dtek instead, as the apps that will come pre-installed on the priv.

    Again this is not an android ecosystem issue as those missing blackberry apps have equivalent ones in the playstore. Rather this about BB implementation of android on the priv and which apps they choose to be pre-installed in it.
    01-04-16 11:37 AM
  5. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    And now Office is slowly becoming standard and Microsoft has finally come up with a licencing model that makes it affordable for home users to legally install Office on their computers and tablets. Years of people expecting this basic functionality to be included on their PCs has led to these changes.




    I'm not sure how you plan on downloading a browser without a browser, but most people would prefer some internet capability on a brand new computer rather than having to go to a friend's place and download something else on a USB stick.



    What is choice for some people simply looks like a carelessly put together OS (fragmentation) to me. What I quite like about BB10 is the consistency in appearance/functionality/navigation across the bundled native apps. This is often not the case with Android. Hell, Android is still struggling with how to put menus within reach.
    We get it. You prefer BB10. You'd like every phone to work like BB10. You're mad that Android isn't BB10. That's fine, you are perfectly entitled to your preferences.

    But Android is not BB10, and, yes, it works differently. That doesn't make it bad or wrong. Sure, you might have to take some time to install a couple of apps when you first get your phone, but there's nothing you can do on BB10 that you can't do on Android (though the opposite isn't true), even though it might be done a different way on Android.
    01-04-16 11:41 AM
  6. hjc73734's Avatar
    Totally disagree with this evaluation of Kalemsoft, but we are all entitled to our opinions. Kalemsoft ui is perfect for me and I am totally satisfied with it. I use it on my Passport and Playbook. I have videos on local drives, on WD Mycloud, stream DLNA from various sources so I like the fact that the app asks me to select the source.
    So you like repetitive actions on something that can be programmed out. Ok, logical.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    01-04-16 11:43 AM
  7. ssbtech's Avatar
    And about reaching menus, I find the swipe from left edge gesture to bring in the menu quite convenient and it's the first thing I try to do with most app now.
    That swipe-in gesture only gets you that one menu though. BB10 is much more heavily designed around the functions within easy reach at the bottom of the screen.

    And don't get me started on how terrible "material design" is.
    01-04-16 11:43 AM
  8. early2bed's Avatar
    But Android is not BB10, and, yes, it works differently. That doesn't make it bad or wrong. Sure, you might have to take some time to install a couple of apps when you first get your phone, but there's nothing you can do on BB10 that you can't do on Android (though the opposite isn't true), even though it might be done a different way on Android.
    But I'm functionally fixated on the way that things work on my current smartphone. To move content around I must be able to directly manipulate files. To transfer content to someone, I must be able to attach it to email. If I do a gesture any new smartphone must do exactly what mine does now. Any new smartphone must the same way I have been used to otherwise it sucks. I won't look any further than this. It must work this way. It must!

    Next you'll be telling us that TPS reports don't have to have cover sheets.
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    01-04-16 11:47 AM
  9. hjc73734's Avatar
    You are in fact blaming Kalemsoft for not doing the same job on Bb10 as on android. That is a stain on Kalemsoft, not on BlackBerry or BB10.

    If you go to the Kalemsoft homepage you will find NO information where this company is located, who the founder(s) is(are), their address, a.s.o.
    I would never trust such a company with access to my files.
    This is the reason why I deleted their app from my PlayBook even though I paid for it.
    No, I'm comparing two media apps, both paid apps. Both highly rated on each respective app stores. Both native.

    Improve your reading comprehension please.

    Kalemsoft does not make the app for Android.

    If there's another media app on bb10 as polished as MX player on Android let me know, I'd love to try it.

    Also can someone please answer. What is missing stock for stock, Android vs Bb10 that makes Android lacking in it's completeness?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    01-04-16 11:49 AM
  10. brookie229's Avatar
    So you like repetitive actions on something that can be programmed out. Ok, logical.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    I stick to my assertion that Kalemsoft has NEVER failed me and is my preferred Media Player and is worth the money. Your opinion is appreciated.
    01-04-16 11:50 AM
  11. Soulstream's Avatar
    That swipe-in gesture only gets you that one menu though. BB10 is much more heavily designed around the functions within easy reach at the bottom of the screen.

    And don't get me started on how terrible "material design" is.
    I actually like material design, but it's sometimes implemented poorly. For me personally, I really like the youtube and Facebook implementation with the categories at the top of the screen and you can swipe between them.

    But I don't think such an approach is always needed. For example my Android file manager (Solid explorer) is a good example of a nice material design implementation. It's simple in design, I can find where everything is, but it's also feature rich.
    01-04-16 12:07 PM
  12. hjc73734's Avatar
    I stick to my assertion that Kalemsoft has NEVER failed me and is my preferred Media Player and is worth the money. Your opinion is appreciated.
    Good for you.

    Others, like me, actually venture out to other ecosystems and see what else is out there. We also expect more for our money. But if it works for you......

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    01-04-16 12:13 PM
  13. hjc73734's Avatar
    Podcast player for Android: I'd suggest Pocketcasts. https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ly.pocketcasts

    It's beautiful. It has cloud syncing of podcasts between devices and you can pay a few more dollars which for access via the web as well @ https://play.pocketcasts.com/. So Pocket Casts are on Android, iOS, and any computer/laptop with a web browser. This is DE BEST!
    Thanks, but do you have one for BB10 that works nice? I've tried Nobex and bPod and both left a nasty taste in my mouth. Native "Built for BlackBerry" would be nice. I'm using the free version of BeyondPod for Android on my BlackBerrys. I've actually paid for that one on Android but BlackBerry's Android runtime won't read my license.
    01-04-16 12:31 PM
  14. ssbtech's Avatar
    I actually like material design, but it's sometimes implemented poorly. For me personally, I really like the youtube and Facebook implementation with the categories at the top of the screen and you can swipe between them.
    There are many problems with the current state of design and material design is no exception.

    Animated buttons and interfaces can present a significant distraction to the user who is trying to get work done. The brain is sensitive to visual stimulation and this can easily interrupt a complex workflow being held in the user's short-term working memory.

    Then you have UI elements that still, after all these years, are often either difficult to distinguish from one another (poor delineation between objects and groups of objects) and it's often hard to discern interactive objects (buttons) from simple labels.

    The floating action button is often distracting and obstructs important content on the screen. (Even BB10 adopted this atrocity with the quick action button that spills out of the lower menu)

    Material design also encourages the use of overlapping geometric shapes of contracting colours in various locations which make any text and other functions displayed on top of them hard to read.
    01-04-16 12:43 PM
  15. Soulstream's Avatar
    There are many problems with the current state of design and material design is no exception.

    Animated buttons and interfaces can present a significant distraction to the user who is trying to get work done. The brain is sensitive to visual stimulation and this can easily interrupt a complex workflow being held in the user's short-term working memory.

    Then you have UI elements that still, after all these years, are often either difficult to distinguish from one another (poor delineation between objects and groups of objects) and it's often hard to discern interactive objects (buttons) from simple labels.

    The floating action button is often distracting and obstructs important content on the screen. (Even BB10 adopted this atrocity with the quick action button that spills out of the lower menu)

    Material design also encourages the use of overlapping geometric shapes of contracting colours in various locations which make any text and other functions displayed on top of them hard to read.
    I actually like the floating action button and don't remember the last time it really got in the way. I also don't think I ever clicked it by accident and it's placed in a convenient location for creating "stuff". I usually scroll from the middle of the screen so the button being the the lower right is perect for me.

    Yes, deffinetly agree with difficult to distinguish elements.

    About moving elements being distracting, I don't know about other people, but after a while I don't even notice them. And again, I really appreciate a simplistic approach to material design. Maybe that's why I like solid explorer so much. I also like that you can change the color scheme in Solid explorer as I don't alway like bright colors (hate that red in Youtube).
    01-04-16 12:54 PM
  16. kbz1960's Avatar
    But I'm functionally fixated on the way that things work on my current smartphone. To move content around I must be able to directly manipulate files. To transfer content to someone, I must be able to attach it to email. If I do a gesture any new smartphone must do exactly what mine does now. Any new smartphone must the same way I have been used to otherwise it sucks. I won't look any further than this. It must work this way. It must!

    Next you'll be telling us that TPS reports don't have to have cover sheets.
    Must be why 95.5% of smartphone users never went BlackBerry.
    Smply_Rckless likes this.
    01-04-16 01:47 PM
  17. brookie229's Avatar
    Good for you.

    Others, like me, actually venture out to other ecosystems and see what else is out there. We also expect more for our money. But if it works for you......

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Used to own an HTC one M8--gave it up for a Passport over a year ago. I don't watch videos (rarely anyway) on my phone but I do store and beam them to other devices.

    What we got here is failure to communicate....
    01-04-16 02:11 PM
  18. Nicholas Kathrein's Avatar
    And don't get me started on how terrible "material design" is.
    Wow! You just lost all credibility! Hmm, lets see what actual designers think since you obviously need to take your medication.

    Top designers react to Google?s new ?Material? design language | VentureBeat | Business | by Harrison Weber

    "Marc Edwards, director and lead designer at Bjango: I love the animation and use of depth. Giving designers exact layering hierarchy and shadow sizes is great. Material seems very cohesive and thoughtful. It’s a small thing, but I like how Google has evolved the Android status bar, and how they’re using it as a dragable window title bar on desktops."

    "Kristy Tillman, designer at IDEO: You can tell Google is trying to get ahead of all of the screen sizes they have going now and provide some real structure. It seems they really tried to set up a fail proof way to design around all of the screen sizes, from the desktop experience to Glass to the watch. The effort is extremely expressive and is obviously about controlling the experience. Experience as brand. This is something Apple has always been better at. Google has put in a real effort to achieve something similar on a much more open platform, which is an ambitious but very necessary goal.

    Visually it looks good. This is the first time I’ve seriously considered ditching iOS. Everything seems really considered. With that said, reading the guidelines, it seems that it’s a post rationalization of a lot of current design trends (i.e.: the tiles). Which isn’t a bad thing. I initially thought about Windows’ Metro design upon seeing the new UI, but it looks like they have added their own spin on it.

    All in all, I see this a great effort forward in laying the groundwork for a very Google-driven future ecosystem."

    "Sacha Greif, creator of Folyo, Telescope, and Sidebar: For the past year or so, Google has really stepped up its design game, and it shows. Where Apple often takes their aesthetic decisions to questionable extremes (as we’ve seen with skeuomorphism first, and flat design more recently), Google generally adopts a subtler, more nuanced approach.

    So instead of trying to impose a strict visual aesthetic, Google defined a set of principles that leave more freedom to individual designers, while still pushing their numerous apps in the same consistent direction.

    And while flat design was all about taking things away (gradients, shadows, highlights, etc.), this new design philosophy seems based on adding movement, animations, and colors.

    Maybe this is Google’s way of filling the void left by the demise of richly textured skeuomorphic designs? In any case, we can only hope it will add a little warmth and humanity to digital design and save us from a world where every app looks and behaves the same."

    Yeah ssbtech you really know your stuff.
    01-04-16 02:16 PM
  19. Nicholas Kathrein's Avatar
    Thanks, but do you have one for BB10 that works nice? I've tried Nobex and bPod and both left a nasty taste in my mouth. Native "Built for BlackBerry" would be nice. I'm using the free version of BeyondPod for Android on my BlackBerrys. I've actually paid for that one on Android but BlackBerry's Android runtime won't read my license.
    Sorry, I thought you had a Priv. With all the talk on apps needed for the Priv I just assumed. I wish I could help you. Unfortunately Android apps not run on an Android OS just give bad impressions. I read this many forums and it seems to me people think Android os sucks because so many have bad interactions with Android apps that don't run correctly on BB10 either taking 10 or 15 seconds to launch are crashing. Many people say all you need on bb10 is the web browser. play.pocketcasts.com should work if you are one of these people. If not and apps aren't there for you maybe think about getting a new phone from your carrier and plan on returning it. For most of us we can't afford new phones more than every two years so getting a phone just to see what your missing and returning it in your 14 day window will at least give you an idea on what your missing and what you want to do in the future.
    01-04-16 02:26 PM
  20. hjc73734's Avatar
    Sorry, I thought you had a Priv. With all the talk on apps needed for the Priv I just assumed. I wish I could help you. Unfortunately Android apps not run on an Android OS just give bad impressions. I read this many forums and it seems to me people think Android os sucks because so many have bad interactions with Android apps that don't run correctly on BB10 either taking 10 or 15 seconds to launch are crashing. Many people say all you need on bb10 is the web browser. play.pocketcasts.com should work if you are one of these people. If not and apps aren't there for you maybe think about getting a new phone from your carrier and plan on returning it. For most of us we can't afford new phones more than every two years so getting a phone just to see what your missing and returning it in your 14 day window will at least give you an idea on what your missing and what you want to do in the future.
    I have a Moto X, Z30, and Z10.

    I swap sim cards now and then plus I like to try different things. Having a nice native podcast app for Blackberry was one of those missing pieces in my case and would be nice to have. I'll check out play.pocketcasts.com and see how that works. Otherwise. I'll stick with using BeyondPod on BB.

    I'd like a Priv or maybe the non slider Android later with a PKB.

    My view of BlackBerry is that from a tech geek and investor. I'm not loyal to any names or brands, but Android does what I need the easiest.
    01-04-16 03:10 PM
  21. anon(8163415)'s Avatar
    Android apps are a complete joke. Half work OK and the other half don't work. Consistent nonsense app updates that fix nothing, and only annoying the user. Android fortunately is still in 2007, old and crippled. And there's no lipstick'ing this pig to make it better. Nothing can touch BB10's superiority in app design and OS.

    Worst case, Google or Apple, dump there useless OS's and call BB10 there own, then brag about inventing it. lol
    boysontheblock likes this.
    01-04-16 03:13 PM
  22. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    Android apps are a complete joke. Half work OK and the other half don't work. Consistent nonsense app updates that fix nothing, and only annoying the user. Android fortunately is still in 2007, old and crippled. And there's no lipstick'ing this pig to make it better. Nothing can touch BB10's superiority in app design and OS.

    Worst case, Google or Apple, dump there useless OS's and call BB10 there own, then brag about inventing it. lol
    Oh, there are BB10 apps?
    01-04-16 03:31 PM
  23. nbaliga's Avatar
    I agree that the ecosystem size is a hype - nobody cares about millions of apps.

    However, I have come full 180 on my opinion of apps after getting the Priv - there are many common apps that I use that I could not get on the Passport and I do use them daily. Some like Spotify would work on the Passport, but was nowhere near the performance and experience you get from pure Android.

    We recently did a trade-show where the only way to do badge scans was to use their app - would not have been able to do that with my Passport.

    The other part about apps is that on BB10, you'll get an update once a year for an app. With the popular "ecosystem", apps are constantly being improved and updated.

    I'll agree with OP that a File Manager should have been baked into the Priv - It does not make sense that they would move Password Keeper and not the File Manager. I think some have said it was not worth it since Marshmallow has a built-in one.
    TgeekB likes this.
    01-04-16 03:49 PM
  24. matt4pack's Avatar
    I do think bb10 apps were of a higher quality then many apps on android at least from the smaller developers. I tend to avoid apps from small developers on android while I wasn't nearly as hesitant on bb10.
    01-04-16 03:54 PM
  25. hjc73734's Avatar
    Android apps are a complete joke. Half work OK and the other half don't work. Consistent nonsense app updates that fix nothing, and only annoying the user. Android fortunately is still in 2007, old and crippled. And there's no lipstick'ing this pig to make it better. Nothing can touch BB10's superiority in app design and OS.

    Worst case, Google or Apple, dump there useless OS's and call BB10 there own, then brag about inventing it. lol
    This is a common BB10 comment but no real examples.
    Smply_Rckless likes this.
    01-04-16 03:56 PM
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