06-18-11 12:04 AM
63 123
tools
  1. howarmat's Avatar
    Sell-in was 500,000. And yes, you can use the word "shipped" as well. And sell-through can be a different number. RIM considers the carriers as customers also, so it is also correct to consider that they sold their units to the carriers. Keep in mind you don't directly buy PlayBooks from RIM, but you actually buy them from the carrier. Anyways that was not what I was emphasizing in the article, only that 500,000 was higher than consensus estimates of about 350,000. I may take a look at sell-through in a future article, when I have more time.

    Here's what Dow Jones said: "...if there is a silver lining it could be sales of its PlayBook tablet in 1Q, which came in around 500,000...": DJ MARKET TALK: Research In Motion 1Q PlayBook Sales Encouraging

    At the end of the day RIM just has a lot of haters, including those who would insist on using a guess of 250,000 just so that it is lower than 500,000.
    that is not true, you buy the PBs from retailers, sprint is the only carrier i know of selling them actually. And not only that RIM sells them directly off their site too
    andyahs likes this.
    06-16-11 07:54 PM
  2. limh5's Avatar
    Why do you care? Your estimate is obviously low because you want to incite. But why? Why are you even here? I think Kevin is off a good bit by the way but I thought he was off with the super bowl thing too. You unfortunately probably know what I'm talking about...because, you are still here.
    I agree. I think Kevin's estimate is low too. The Crackberry poll asked how many PlayBooks you've seen on the street. Well I haven't seen a single iPad on the street either. Here's the link again, make of it what you will: Investing Blog: The Biggest Silver Lining in RIM's Q1 Results
    06-16-11 07:55 PM
  3. reeneebob's Avatar
    I am here because I started with BB and this board (before you I see) and I still use the Android and Apple sub forums. I also need to stay up on BB to assist with non techy family members who have them. Not that I need to explain that to you, as you aren't a mod. I'm here because two mods at the time I posted a thank you to the board for all the support with BB but I had moved to another platform invited me to stay. So, really, while I get you don't like hearing anything even remotely bad about RIM, you don't get to say who can and can't post here.

    The fact remains that they refused to provide sold numbers. They were asked. They claimed ignorance. I'm sure the shareholders LOVED that.

    That isn't good.

    I'm sorry if people pointing it out makes you personally unhappy.

    Do you think that I, as a Canadian living in the home province of RIM, who is now about to greatly help our unemployment rates to go higher with their lay offs, really an happy about any of this? No. I'm not.

    As far as the 'investor blog' guy considering 90% of that guys posts are trolling for readers for his blog, I honestly don't take him seriously anyway. Is he even supposed to be actively promoting his blog on here?

    EDIT

    No, he's not, as per the rules and guidelines "Traffic Leaching is strictly prohibited."
    Last edited by reeneebob; 06-16-11 at 08:08 PM.
    06-16-11 07:56 PM
  4. limh5's Avatar
    that is not true, you buy the PBs from retailers, sprint is the only carrier i know of selling them actually. And not only that RIM sells them directly off their site too
    I just changed "sold" to "sell-in". That should be more clear.
    06-16-11 08:00 PM
  5. pattste's Avatar
    that is not true, you buy the PBs from retailers, sprint is the only carrier i know of selling them actually. And not only that RIM sells them directly off their site too
    In limh5's defense, he is Canadian and over here all three major national carriers as well as some regional ones like Videotron are selling the Playbook.
    howarmat likes this.
    06-16-11 08:45 PM
  6. howarmat's Avatar
    In limh5's defense, he is Canadian and over here all three major national carriers as well as some regional ones like Videotron are selling the Playbook.
    true that is a good point.
    06-16-11 08:52 PM
  7. radiobuck's Avatar
    can't buy a break, regardless of any news that comes out RIM always gets negative press, unlike Apple
    06-16-11 08:56 PM
  8. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    can't buy a break, regardless of any news that comes out RIM always gets negative press, unlike Apple
    Apple gets their fair share of bad press. Antennaegate, Sweatshops, Patent suits, privacy violations, unfair business practices etc..

    They're just more forthcoming in responding and oftentimes throw bones to appease the masses.
    06-16-11 09:10 PM
  9. pattste's Avatar
    can't buy a break, regardless of any news that comes out RIM always gets negative press, unlike Apple
    Overall I would agree. But in the case of today's earning reports, if the press was positive, they wouldn't be doing their job. RIM revised guidance recently and failed to meet even those reduced expectations. They announce pretty good PlayBook sales but when asked for a clarification admit these are units in the channel and claim they don't know how many actually sold. The only announced 2011 phone doesn't have a release date and is having a hard time getting carrier certification, none of the rumoured phones have specs that rival the new iPhone that should ship around the same time (and several Android phones) and none of the phones in the 2011 lineup are likely to be upgradeable to QNX. There is not a clue when QNX phones will be available but logically speaking, it is hard to expect them before the fall of 2012. Finally, the company is announcing major layoffs, which are sure to kill moral and create uncertainty in the workforce at a time when RIM will be asking them to work overtime.
    trsbbs likes this.
    06-16-11 09:12 PM
  10. Economist101's Avatar
    can't buy a break, regardless of any news that comes out RIM always gets negative press, unlike Apple
    Bad news leads to bad press.

    As for Apple, they get their share of negative press. There aren't many "Apple is dying" stories because their financials are solid.
    06-16-11 09:30 PM
  11. Snick Snack's Avatar
    and none of the phones in the 2011 lineup are likely to be upgradeable to QNX. .
    But Rim will have OS7 being able to run on the QNX platform as well see article:

    How RIM is steering BlackBerry toward QNX | News | ZDNet UK

    There is also a call to developers with apps for OS 6 to start working on their apps to port over to OS7.

    Rim may be moving towards a whole new platform but it doesn't mean they won't find some way of moving some of their phones forward.

    Case in point, Curves can now run OS6 when they couldn't do it last year.
    06-16-11 10:26 PM
  12. howarmat's Avatar
    But Rim will have OS7 being able to run on the QNX platform as well see article:

    How RIM is steering BlackBerry toward QNX | News | ZDNet UK

    There is also a call to developers with apps for OS 6 to start working on their apps to port over to OS7.

    Rim may be moving towards a whole new platform but it doesn't mean they won't find some way of moving some of their phones forward.

    Case in point, Curves can now run OS6 when they couldn't do it last year.
    why the **** should they have to do this. its the same damn OS. Other platforms dont have to do this crap for everything. **** even the phone apps work on the tablets most times
    06-16-11 10:48 PM
  13. grover5's Avatar
    why the **** should they have to do this. its the same damn OS. Other platforms dont have to do this crap for everything. **** even the phone apps work on the tablets most times
    Chill out tough guy. She's just reporting the roadmap. Other platforms can't run multiple OS apps on players within their system. What do you want them to do? They are moving toward unified but it takes time. How would you do it?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Snick Snack likes this.
    06-16-11 11:13 PM
  14. mmcpher's Avatar
    A rocky call, as widely anticipated. These are the times the execs earn more of their money. I still see a company threatened more by perception than by rational projections, earnings, subscribers, etc. And this perception is fueled by a hostile tech press and by "analysts", not all of whom have sterling track records or whom are above agendas. So the sharks are circling and the carriers are squeezing through the certification process. It is a by-product of the log-jam of unreleased handsets and too long deferred platform development. RIM's rivals are doing all they can to push it toward the cliff. This is the business RIM has chosen.

    It wasn't a pretty call, but I took heart in the leadership's resolve to grind away and to move forward and to address the more glaring problems. When the financials were humming, the critics were warning that RIM was headed for trouble with their behind-the-curve hardware specs and OS. And this has been what RIM has been doing, even as they have been unable to avoid the costs in the form of the delays in releases and OS and development upgrades. It would have been a neat trick to do everything all at once and to time the rollouts to the aging of existing products and the explosive growth of RIM's rivals. Given the success of those rivals, there was going to be pain for RIM even if they had planned and executed flawlessly, but the hurt has been deepened by the confluence of these factors. So the stock price is punished.

    I am more interested in where RIM will be in terms of hardware and software over the next few years than I am in tomorrow's or year end's stock price, and I like what I see and hear, and I like their new release in hand and the reasonable expectations of the impending handheld releases. In the mean time, from a utility and productivity standpoint, my current RIM equipment will work to exceed my needs, really for a longer period than the wait for the new devises and new OS's.

    So long as the stock price doesn't impinge on RIM's ability to deliver these things, it remains other peoples' concern. That is a fairly big "so long as" but I remain confident in RIM and its products and am enthusiastic about its prospects.
    06-17-11 12:14 AM
  15. Snick Snack's Avatar
    Bad news leads to bad press.

    As for Apple, they get their share of negative press. There aren't many "Apple is dying" stories because their financials are solid.
    So 4.8 Billion dollars is not profitable? Hmmm. what is? I believe even Apple had a slow fiscal quarter.

    and a quote from their earnings report:

    "RIM's business is profitable and remains solid overall with growing market share in numerous markets around the world and a strong balance sheet with almost $3 billion in cash.

    I'm not saying they don't have issues, but it's not finacial ones.
    Last edited by Snick Snack; 06-17-11 at 01:06 AM.
    06-17-11 01:02 AM
  16. Economist101's Avatar
    So 4.8 Billion dollars is not profitable? Hmmm. what is? I believe even Apple had a slow fiscal quarter.
    One, I never said they weren't profitable. Two, the $4.8 billion number is revenue, not profit. Three, I'm not sure which Apple quarter you're referring to, but in their last quarter they reported $24 billion in revenue and a $6 billion profit (with half of the revenue and half of the profit coming directly from the iPhone). If you consider that a "slow" fiscal quarter then its stock is seriously undervalued, even at $325.

    and a quote from their earnings report: "RIM's business is profitable and remains solid overall with growing market share in numerous markets around the world and a strong balance sheet with almost $3 billion in cash.
    I'm not sure what your point is there. However, I will note that in light of them making nearly a billion in profit last quarter, the $3 billion in cash seems kind of light. Google's sitting on $37 billion, Microsoft $50+ billion, and Apple $60 billion.

    I'm not saying they don't have issues, but it's not finacial ones.
    When a company sells 10% more phones this year than it did the same quarter last year, makes an additional 15% revenue and "ships" 500K of its brand new tablet yet its profit drops by 10% and its management begins to describe "streamlining" or "reducing headcount" or "eliminating redundancies" (ironic coming from a co-CEO), the company in question has financial issues.
    Last edited by Economist101; 06-17-11 at 08:59 AM. Reason: Clarity
    kevinnugent likes this.
    06-17-11 01:30 AM
  17. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I'm a BB user and a fan of the platform. I'm not blind to the fact that the report was discouraging.
    However......I'm not overreacting to it. Bad, yes. Catastrophic, not yet.
    They've made several acquisitions in preparation for the new OS. The Playbook did not do well. They've taken too long with handsets.
    In my opinion, which is certainly not gospel, I expect a slow upturn with the release of the new handsets. The pop analysts and pseudo CEOs will continue to trash it. I expect another slow upturn with the release of QNX devices.

    RIMM stocks or RIM the company will not return to the glory days of '07, but this is not yet a fire sale.
    06-17-11 07:25 AM
  18. trsbbs's Avatar
    While folks argue about the numbers, are they profitable, do they have enough cash to make it through this slump, I was and still am concerned by a few things I noticed during the call.

    1. Unable or unwilling to tell us how many PBs were sold.

    They can tell us how many handsets were sold but not how many tablets were sold.
    When asked directly they hedged, dodged and ducked. Then, in my opinion, simply lied to us and said they did not know. You could hear it in their voices.

    2. The launch of the PB went worse then expected. DOH!

    Heck, more than a month before the launch I said it would not go well
    due to the PB missing some vital items. Not that I am a God or anything, but if a simple guy in Wisconsin can figure this out, then they sure as heck should of known it as well.
    They not only launched it in the US without vital items they went ahead and are doing
    the same thing across the world. Not one change was made to make any of the
    launches better.

    3. They said the PB was, I can't remember the exact wording, but the jest was that the PB was getting great reviews in the UK.

    Where? Who? WTF?

    I am not a RIM hater, I think RIM has a strong future, but it has to change starting with the two Co-CEOs.

    They are out of touch with what is actually happening on the street. Both boasted about what they have done in the past, but are not recognizing what they have done and done badly in the present. This is costing RIM dearly.

    I like Jim, he seems like a nice enough guy, but his time came and went.
    Mike should of been let go sometime ago. He simply is Mikes backside kisser.
    Both support each others warped viewpoint.

    How did they get this way?

    They now live in a bubble. They are no longer in touch with the real world and refuse to recognize this and change, as we witnessed during the call when an investor questioned the validity of the Co-CEO structure, the UK and US PB launch statements etc.

    If one or both of these men are still at the helm in 9 - 12 months my stock will be sold. I will no longer think RIM has a chance.

    Again, RIM is not the problem, it's the two folks telling RIM what and when to do things. If you change them out, you change the way RIM is working and hopefully for the better.

    Even Kevin mentioned the word "implode". I agree. The tone, the sound of their voices, the dodging and shall I dare say, the lying shows that this might just happen or is happening inside of RIM as I type this.

    I love my PB and I "like" my 9650, as I did my 8330 and 8530 and want even better BB products in the future, so this is done out of concern, not out of hate.


    Tim
    Last edited by trsbbs; 06-17-11 at 07:45 AM.
    boldman4, kevinnugent and OnTopic like this.
    06-17-11 07:42 AM
  19. JasW's Avatar
    Just so we're clear, RIM sold 2 million more handheld devices this last quarter than the same quarter last year (13.2 million vs 11.2 million). They also "shipped" 500K PlayBooks in its first half-quarter. Their revenue is up $650 million from the same quarter last year.

    And yet their net income is $70 million less than it was during the same quarter last year.
    The increase in handhelds sold was in the cheaper -- and decidedly less profitable -- models like the low-end Curves in developing countries and the like.

    The high end is where the profit is, and RIM is stalling and falling there. QNX-based handhelds should really be coming out this year, not humdrum improvements to handhelds based on the current OS.

    It's going to be a rough year ahead until the QNX-based handhelds are released. And even then, one has to wonder if that will be too little, too late. A year is a lifetime in this business.
    06-17-11 07:48 AM
  20. lnichols's Avatar
    It's going to be a rough year ahead until the QNX-based handhelds are released. And even then, one has to wonder if that will be too little, too late. A year is a lifetime in this business.
    I don't think it would be too late. A lot a Android users, at least in the US, became Android users because only AT&T had the iPhone and Android was the closest thing to an iPhone, and a cheaper solution than the iPhone for low end models. You just have to look at the carrier breakdowns with Verizon, Sprint and T-Mobile having large Android subscriber bases, and AT&T not having much of one. Other carriers were pushing and are still pushing Android hard. My dad went to a Verizon store a few months ago to buy an iPhone and they "convinced" him into a DroidX. Yeah I know they were clearing out inventory but it shows that salesman push what corporate wants and what puts the most coin in there pocket with incentives. It is his first smartphone. RIM should be hitting a time when a lot people coming out of their 2 year Android contracts.

    QNX phone should provide everything that Android can do, even Android apps, plus do everything that a Blackberry can do, which is a compelling story. You want media, great web, apps and still be able to get your work e-mail at your company that has BES, then here is your phone, and that BES will get us an extra $20 per month and we do nothing. People want touchscreen devices and RIM only has one in the US now, the Torch, and it is only available on AT&T. I think you'll see QNX cause some Android defections if it is implemented well. Apple will be much tougher because people have invested so much in apps it makes it tougher for them to justify to switch.

    My biggest concern heading forward for RIM is that as carriers start heading toward tiered data plans, they will have even more financial incentive to push data pigs like iOS and Android out the door because the suck down bandwidth, and less incentive for RIM devices because they sip data by comparison. The carrier could care less what phone you buy if they all make them the same money, but they do care if one won't make them as much. And what the carriers push is what people will buy.
    06-17-11 09:40 AM
  21. jlb21's Avatar
    RIM misses targets, slashes outlook and plans layoffs - Jun. 16, 2011

    I am fine with the article. But what kills me is some of the comments. Just plain idiots and/or haters.
    06-17-11 09:50 AM
  22. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    Look, the news is really just getting worse by the minute. :/ It's really awful.
    06-17-11 09:58 AM
  23. jlspeed29's Avatar
    Not only the news but the stock as well! -22% OUCH

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-17-11 10:08 AM
  24. allengeorge's Avatar
    The earnings call was bad, though both Jim Balsille and Mike Lazaridis tried to put a brave face on events. The bigger problem is that they still don't recognize the gravity of the situation, which makes me feel that things at RIM are going to get substantially worse before (if?) they get better. Rationale:

    • Neither co-CEO accepted that they grossly misjudged consumer sentiment and valued features over a period of 2+ years
    • Neither co-CEO recognized that they had bungled the launch of the Playbook and that by releasing an unfinished, unpolished product they tarnished the BlackBerry brand
    • Neither co-CEO mentioned what, specifically, they would do to get the company back on track (what are the product focuses, which areas would they like to improve, etc.)

    Given these factors and many others I'm very, very negative on the outlook for RIM right now. At this rate they will be under 5% NA market share in 2 years.
    trsbbs likes this.
    06-17-11 11:26 AM
  25. WillHeSurvive's Avatar
    The earnings call was bad, though both Jim Balsille and Mike Lazaridis tried to put a brave face on events. The bigger problem is that they still don't recognize the gravity of the situation, which makes me feel that things at RIM are going to get substantially worse before (if?) they get better. Rationale:

    • Neither co-CEO accepted that they grossly misjudged consumer sentiment and valued features over a period of 2+ years
    • Neither co-CEO recognized that they had bungled the launch of the Playbook and that by releasing an unfinished, unpolished product they tarnished the BlackBerry brand
    • Neither co-CEO mentioned what, specifically, they would do to get the company back on track (what are the product focuses, which areas would they like to improve, etc.)

    Given these factors and many others I'm very, very negative on the outlook for RIM right now. At this rate they will be under 5% NA market share in 2 years.

    What CEO has ever admitted any of the things you've just listed.
    06-17-11 11:33 AM
63 123
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD