09-22-16 12:02 PM
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  1. TgeekB's Avatar
    Whatever your views, you have to learn to live with the device you have and not try and force it to be the device you used to drive. I'm not trying to make a value judgement. I'm trying to help the OP. But thanks for politicizing my advice which comes from experience having used (in order): feature phones, Android, feature phones, webOS, Android, webOS + Android (2 devices), Ubuntu Touch ports, Android, Ubuntu Touch ports + Firefox OS ports dual boot, Android, Sailfish ports, Android, Windows Phone 8.x, iOS, Windows Phone 8.x, Firefox OS dedicated device, Windows 8.x + Windows RT (2 devices), Windows 10 Mobile + Windows RT (2 devices), Windows 10 Mobile + Windows RT + Android (3 devices)...

    I think I've learned something about flexibility and working with an OS rather than fighting against it to try and make it conform to an old habit one can't let go of.
    Well said. There is no perfect device because we all have different needs and wants. There are tons of choices to find what works best for you and then adapt to the system. There has to be some give and take because there is no perfect.
    Thud Hardsmack and RumoredNow like this.
    09-08-16 02:04 PM
  2. TgeekB's Avatar
    BB10 with its basic functions provides me with a way to handle 90% of what I do in a way that's more efficient (at least for me) and with a smoother, integrated way. So, what MY point is...thousands of supposed choices to do what? Little that matters (to me). I realize other people rate those specific things (mostly third-party) very high in their list of needs.

    So, for people that do not have a lot of specific App requirements (beyond very common ones), using Android is a LOSS--because of the interface/interaction deficiencies. As I see it, Android remains a stilted, broken, clumsy thing, whereas Blackberry is simple, clean, and flows. Android continues to try and add OS functionality to do what BB10 does as part of its inherent design.

    Other people might enjoy mashing the back button or home button, and that works for them.

    KAM
    A bit dramatic (mashing the back button?, stilted, broken and clumsy?) but glad you found what works for you.
    Thud Hardsmack likes this.
    09-08-16 02:06 PM
  3. ohaiguise's Avatar
    Whatever your views, you have to learn to live with the device you have and not try and force it to be the device you used to drive. I'm not trying to make a value judgement. I'm trying to help the OP. But thanks for politicizing my advice which comes from experience having used (in order): feature phones, Android, feature phones, webOS, Android, webOS + Android (2 devices), Ubuntu Touch ports, Android, Ubuntu Touch ports + Firefox OS ports dual boot, Android, Sailfish ports, Android, Windows Phone 8.x, iOS, Windows Phone 8.x, Firefox OS dedicated device, Windows 8.x + Windows RT (2 devices), Windows 10 Mobile + Windows RT (2 devices), Windows 10 Mobile + Windows RT + Android (3 devices)...

    I think I've learned something about flexibility and working with an OS rather than fighting against it to try and make it conform to an old habit one can't let go of.


    What? I don't have to do anything that I don't want to do lol. I'll choose the products that suit me and my way of working, but thanks anyway.
    09-08-16 02:17 PM
  4. jope28's Avatar
    He's not talking about rooting. He meant by using a preferred launcher and apps users can customize Android as they see fit, whereas with iOS there's a selection of apps but the UI is the UI.
    I beg to differ.

    My contention is that the whole:

    "With Android, you have the ultimate in customisability. It can be whatever you want, and you can control it to match your exact workflow. It's a toaster with 100 knobs, 50 dials, and 75 levers. The ecosystem gives it the range and breadth of ultimate choice"

    Is something that is more under rooted Android and what it can provide. Specially the "ultimate in customisability" sentiment.

    IMHO

     Passport filter-evading the NSA  Make BlackBerry Great Again!
    Ursus Rufus likes this.
    09-08-16 02:19 PM
  5. conite's Avatar
    I beg to differ.

    My contention is that the whole:

    "With Android, you have the ultimate in customisability. It can be whatever you want, and you can control it to match your exact workflow. It's a toaster with 100 knobs, 50 dials, and 75 levers. The ecosystem gives it the range and breadth of ultimate choice"

    Is something that is more under rooted Android and what it can provide. Specially the "ultimate in customisability" sentiment.

    IMHO

     Passport filter-evading the NSA  Make BlackBerry Great Again!
    To clarify, I'm really talking about either rooted or non-rooted. As you say rooting brings it to a whole new level, but even without we have launchers, and apps galore to customise the experience.
    09-08-16 02:38 PM
  6. KAM1138's Avatar
    I don't see it that way.

    With iOS, you have a toaster with 1 button - heat toast. Simple, out of the box for lay people.

    With Android, you have the ultimate in customisability. It can be whatever you want, and you can control it to match your exact workflow. It's a toaster with 100 knobs, 50 dials, and 75 levers. The ecosystem gives it the range and breadth of ultimate choice.
    Generally, I'd agree with your descriptions, but that this seems to hit a wall--at least it does for me.

    Android is not built like BB10--it simply is not, and it does not "flow" in the same way, so no,it does NOT match my exact workflow.
    With all of its supposed customization options, even including Blackberry add ons, it still doesn't provide the experience that BB10 does.

    If you can show me how to make it operate like BB10, then please do. I understand from reading a variety of your posts since PRIV came out that you've found something that works very well for you, but it is not my understanding that this really emulates BB10 operation (aka "flow").

    KAM
    09-08-16 03:27 PM
  7. KAM1138's Avatar
    A bit dramatic (mashing the back button?, stilted, broken and clumsy?) but glad you found what works for you.
    Well, there is a slight bit of hyperbole there, but that's to emphasize what I think is a very real and noticeable (and for me problematic) difference in actually working on a BB10 device vs a BlackBerry Android (I can only imagine a non-blackberry Android would be significantly worse--maybe there is some other alternative "flow" that I'm not aware of from other vendors?).

    I think it is accurate that both iOS and Android are essentially App Switchers, which heavily rely on "back button" or "home button" operation, and which have attempted to add-on various enhancements to try and emulate the "flow" and operation of other OS (WebOS and BB10 for example) that have a different starting point in terms of interface. YEARS later, they are still playing catch-up in some of these areas. I do think that they've gotten better in some ways. For example iOS has essentially adopted the "Card" idea from WebOS--although it still doesn't seem as natural (long time since I've worked with WebOS).

    But yes, BB10 does work for me--and I don't think it is because that's just "What I'm used to." I've tried WebOS, Older Android, iOS, Windows Phone, and current Android (DTEK50), as well as BB10, and with the exception of WebOS, none of the others seem to provide a user experience that seems natural, and intuitive.

    That's why I call it Clumsy.

    Can anyone dispute my claim about Android--that at its core, it simply is not an integrated OS that provides "flow", and that it relies almost totally on add-on features that are not as integrated as things are in BB10. I can see if someone doesn't care about it, as much as I do.

    KAM
    09-08-16 03:36 PM
  8. conite's Avatar
    With all of its supposed customization options, even including Blackberry add ons, it still doesn't provide the experience that BB10 does.

    If you can show me how to make it operate like BB10, then please do.

    KAM
    This is where our discussion breaks down. Different doesn't mean worse or less efficient. It's no wonder Android doesn't work for you because you keep trying to jam a square peg into a round hole.
    TgeekB, TGR1, Tsepz_GP and 5 others like this.
    09-08-16 03:37 PM
  9. jope28's Avatar
    Generally, I'd agree with your descriptions, but that this seems to hit a wall--at least it does for me.

    Android is not built like BB10--it simply is not, and it does not "flow" in the same way, so no,it does NOT match my exact workflow.
    With all of its supposed customization options, even including Blackberry add ons, it still doesn't provide the experience that BB10 does.

    If you can show me how to make it operate like BB10, then please do. I understand from reading a variety of your posts since PRIV came out that you've found something that works very well for you, but it is not my understanding that this really emulates BB10 operation (aka "flow").

    KAM
    I think that "flow" on BB10 comes from the fact that many things come from apps built into the BB10 OS instead of 3rd party apps that don't necessarily 'flow' with the rest of the OS.

    It seems, from apps I've used on Android, that Android developers put a little more of a 'personal' touch than BlackBerry devs do when it comes to flowing with the rest of the OS.
    I'm guessing that's where a lot of the 'flow' issues come in.

    The stock BB10 file manager seems so great in part because it's a system app and 'feels' like part of the OS and 'flows'.
    Never used so many 'feels' and 'flows' without having to buy drinks first lol

     Passport filter-evading the NSA  Make BlackBerry Great Again!
    murphcid likes this.
    09-08-16 03:37 PM
  10. KAM1138's Avatar
    This is where our discussion breaks down. Different doesn't mean worse or less efficient. It's no wonder Android doesn't work for you because you keep trying to jam a square peg into a round hole.
    No--different IS worse FOR ME. If you can't accept that as MY view and my desire as a user then that's the point of divergence. It doesn't mean it has to be YOUR view.
    Does Android allow for an experience like BB10 or not? If not, then the Breakdown of this is caused by your insistence that a DIFFERENT experience that makes you happy is what I'm looking for.

    Android DOES work for me...it just works somewhat more poorly (for me).

    The "round hole" is what I'm looking for, so no matter how many times you say "But this square peg is really good" it isn't the same thing. I'm not TRYING to do anything. Using Android FORCES me to the Square peg, when I want the "round hole."

    So, yes, discussion DOES break down, when I keep saying "I'm looking for A" and you say "But B is really great." What I asked you is whether I'm really just not understanding that I CAN get "A" with Android. Am I wrong? IS this possible?

    I'm perfectly willing to accept that there is a lot I don't know about Android. If you ARE saying that I can get "A" (not a really good B), then I'll take responsibility for misunderstanding you, and wholeheartedly apologize.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 09-08-16 at 04:03 PM.
    miker476 likes this.
    09-08-16 03:46 PM
  11. KAM1138's Avatar
    I think that "flow" on BB10 comes from the fact that many things come from apps built into the BB10 OS instead of 3rd party apps that don't necessarily 'flow' with the rest of the OS.
    It seems, from apps I've used on Android, that Android developers put a little more of a 'personal' touch than BlackBerry devs do when it comes to flowing with the rest of the OS.
    I'm guessing that's where a lot of the 'flow' issues come in.
    The stock BB10 file manager seems so great in part because it's a system app and 'feels' like part of the OS and 'flows'.
    Never used so many 'feels' and 'flows' without having to buy drinks first lol
     Passport filter-evading the NSA  Make BlackBerry Great Again!
    Yes, you seem to understand what I'm referring to.

    KAM
    09-08-16 03:48 PM
  12. TgeekB's Avatar
    Well, there is a slight bit of hyperbole there, but that's to emphasize what I think is a very real and noticeable (and for me problematic) difference in actually working on a BB10 device vs a BlackBerry Android (I can only imagine a non-blackberry Android would be significantly worse--maybe there is some other alternative "flow" that I'm not aware of from other vendors?).

    I think it is accurate that both iOS and Android are essentially App Switchers, which heavily rely on "back button" or "home button" operation, and which have attempted to add-on various enhancements to try and emulate the "flow" and operation of other OS (WebOS and BB10 for example) that have a different starting point in terms of interface. YEARS later, they are still playing catch-up in some of these areas. I do think that they've gotten better in some ways. For example iOS has essentially adopted the "Card" idea from WebOS--although it still doesn't seem as natural (long time since I've worked with WebOS).

    But yes, BB10 does work for me--and I don't think it is because that's just "What I'm used to." I've tried WebOS, Older Android, iOS, Windows Phone, and current Android (DTEK50), as well as BB10, and with the exception of WebOS, none of the others seem to provide a user experience that seems natural, and intuitive.

    That's why I call it Clumsy.

    Can anyone dispute my claim about Android--that at its core, it simply is not an integrated OS that provides "flow", and that it relies almost totally on add-on features that are not as integrated as things are in BB10. I can see if someone doesn't care about it, as much as I do.

    KAM
    I'm going to add onto something Jope28 said. First off, for basic email, text, communication BB10 did a great job of baking that flow into the system. Difficult to dispute that. That's where it stops though because lack of popularity made anything else more difficult.
    Android is not an app switcher. In fact, apps interact with the user at many levels. They can interact with one another also. Having a wider variety makes for a more complete system than BB10.
    They are different and fulfill the needs of different users. Use which one works best for you and allow others to enjoy what works for them.
    Thud Hardsmack likes this.
    09-08-16 03:48 PM
  13. KAM1138's Avatar
    I'm going to add onto something Jope28 said. First off, for basic email, text, communication BB10 did a great job of baking that flow into the system. Difficult to dispute that. That's where it stops though because lack of popularity made anything else more difficult.
    Android is not an app switcher. In fact, apps interact with the user at many levels. They can interact with one another also. Having a wider variety makes for a more complete system than BB10.
    They are different and fulfill the needs of different users. Use which one works best for you and allow others to enjoy what works for them.
    Not sure how I'm NOT "allowing" others to enjoy what works for them. I'm talking about what works for me, and my needs.

    You do acknowledge that BB10 DOES Bake that (communication) flow into the system. So, yes you understand what I'm talking about. Now, just take one small step further--that "communication" is my primary use, and you'll easily see how the fact that BB10 does this VERY well, with "flow" and you'll see why I place such importance on it.

    KAM
    miker476 likes this.
    09-08-16 03:55 PM
  14. TgeekB's Avatar
    Not sure how I'm NOT "allowing" others to enjoy what works for them. I'm talking about what works for me, and my needs.

    KAM
    I was using the plural of you, sorry.
    KAM1138 likes this.
    09-08-16 03:57 PM
  15. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    BlackBerry 10 is the best OS out there undeniably . Anyone who says differently hasn't used one. Too bad the market and eco system developers think differently or should I say "more of the same ".

    Posted via CB10
    In your opinion.
    murphcid likes this.
    09-08-16 04:16 PM
  16. TgeekB's Avatar
    Not sure how I'm NOT "allowing" others to enjoy what works for them. I'm talking about what works for me, and my needs.

    You do acknowledge that BB10 DOES Bake that (communication) flow into the system. So, yes you understand what I'm talking about. Now, just take one small step further--that "communication" is my primary use, and you'll easily see how the fact that BB10 does this VERY well, with "flow" and you'll see why I place such importance on it.

    KAM
    For you, yes, i agree. Android "flows" for a lot of people also. Remember, BB10 lacks many apps and things that make flow, for some people, impossible. Thus Blackberry's move to Android.
    I do feel bad for people like yourself who found a system that meets their needs so well and find it fading away. It could have been so much more. Hopefully they will support it long enough that you will eventually find something else that works just as well. Technology is always changing and we never know what's around the corner.
    09-08-16 04:20 PM
  17. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    In your opinion.
    As is YOURS!!!! Everyone has one ,YOURS is JUST yet ANOTHER as well!!!

    Posted via CB10
    09-08-16 04:34 PM
  18. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    As is YOURS!!!! Everyone has one YOURS is JUST ANOTHER as well!!!

    Posted via CB10
    Difference is that I am not pushing mine onto others as you were, but glad you have finally accepted that it is your own opinion.

    Shout it out indeed.
    murphcid likes this.
    09-08-16 04:39 PM
  19. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    In other words: "There's an App for that!"

    KAM
    That means I have to download something... that I could have had OOTB...

    Anyway, still hoping to get BlackBerry to port their file manager to Android, so I can at least have the same experience, workflow and productivity, If I'm going to incur the loss of privacy ...

    :-)

      "Chenterprise. We are the future. Resistance is futile. Prepare to BBe... "  
    KAM1138 likes this.
    09-08-16 05:55 PM
  20. TgeekB's Avatar
    That means I have to download something... that I could have had OOTB...

    Anyway, still hoping to get BlackBerry to port their file manager to Android, so I can at least have the same experience, workflow and productivity, If I'm going to incur the loss of privacy ...

    :-)

      "Chenterprise. We are the future. Resistance is futile. Prepare to BBe... "  
    If that were true, BB10 would have succeeded. It did not have what people wanted OOTB so it failed.
    murphcid likes this.
    09-08-16 07:41 PM
  21. filanto's Avatar
    Is not just the Keyboard, is the gestures, the swipe, the easy way of change between Apps.

    I Past 3 days trying to configure 4 emails account in only one App, 2 Gmail, Exchange, a hotmail, an exist Gmail App, the add account option, the Outlook App, and I'm not sure trust in this Apps to manage my work account and personal account, with the Hub is was very simple to add and configure accounts.

    Posted via CB10
    I'm using a Samsung S7 with the BlackBerry Hub+ and I also am using the included Knox. I am also using Meraki and a vpn. Yes I do find myself swiping when I should push buttons. I miss my Z10 less and less, plus I have about 25 full length movies on my sd card with Vudu. Darn should have gotten the 200 gb card. I remember being frustrated by the Z10 after moving from my 9850. It passed

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    09-08-16 08:19 PM
  22. z10Jobe's Avatar
    I'm using a Samsung S7 with the BlackBerry Hub+ and I also am using the included Knox. I am also using Meraki and a vpn. Yes I do find myself swiping when I should push buttons. I miss my Z10 less and less, plus I have about 25 full length movies on my sd card with Vudu. Darn should have gotten the 200 gb card. I remember being frustrated by the Z10 after moving from my 9850. It passed

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Not another dude comparing a phone 3. 5 years newer to their former BlackBerry device as justification for their view on the operating system. Just so you know, the Galaxy S3 was Samsung's flagship phone when the Z10 was released. And also take Note that your Samsung's big brother is on fire... literally.

    Posted via CB10
    09-08-16 08:37 PM
  23. murphcid's Avatar
    And for you, that may be very true. I find iOS just horrible to deal with, since you can only do things the way Apple LETS you do it. Android is like desktop Linux, do things your way. I am very sparing on apps, I find the ones that work for me, such as FX file explorer, Poweramp, etc and stick with them. I tend to not use my phone for games, or entertainment since I have tablets for that. It is all a matter of getting used to a different workflow. I am working on learning Mint Linux 18 on my laptop, from which I totally removed Windows. Now Linux and Windows (or Mac OS) are completely different animals, so it is a matter of getting used to what is, not what I want it to be.

    BB10 with its basic functions provides me with a way to handle 90% of what I do in a way that's more efficient (at least for me) and with a smoother, integrated way. So, what MY point is...thousands of supposed choices to do what? Little that matters (to me). I realize other people rate those specific things (mostly third-party) very high in their list of needs.

    So, for people that do not have a lot of specific App requirements (beyond very common ones), using Android is a LOSS--because of the interface/interaction deficiencies. As I see it, Android remains a stilted, broken, clumsy thing, whereas Blackberry is simple, clean, and flows. Android continues to try and add OS functionality to do what BB10 does as part of its inherent design.

    Other people might enjoy mashing the back button or home button, and that works for them.

    KAM
    09-08-16 08:46 PM
  24. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Not another dude comparing a phone 3. 5 years newer to their former BlackBerry device as justification for their view on the operating system. Just so you know, the Galaxy S3 was Samsung's flagship phone when the Z10 was released. And also take Note that your Samsung's big brother is on fire... literally.

    Posted via CB10
    Why not? That was the upgrade, so that's what he bought. Not many people upgrade to devices released the same year as their previous device, unless they preferred that year's model(s) or have a financial specification.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    09-08-16 08:50 PM
  25. z10Jobe's Avatar
    Why not? That was the upgrade, so that's what he bought. Not many people upgrade to devices released the same year as their previous device, unless they preferred that year's model(s) or have a financial specification.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Nothing wrong at all with upgrading if one wants to.

    My point was not to convolute hardware comparisons in discussing operating systems.

    Btw, a 2013 z10 can run the latest bb10 software. Not sure if a Galaxy s3 can run Android 6.0.

    Via Q5.

    Posted via CB10
    09-08-16 10:31 PM
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