[conite]

However, to drill down slightly on "primary function"--well, if you're getting a third party app--that's no longer a "primary" function, because its not part of what the device does as delivered

KAM

I think this definition is rather nonsensical and completely arbitrary. Why does it matter if it is prepackaged or not if it can be deeply integrated into the OS by a trustworthy source? An app is an app.

Slacker radio was pre-installled on BB10 (let's ignore the fact that it no longer works), so does that make it a primary function because "it is part of what the device does as delivered"? What about the Amazon appstore? StoryMaker? Foursquare?

As and aside, as you know well, I too always advocate using whatever works for you. I'm just having a conversation.

[z10Jobe]

I guess that the difference is that bb10 is ready to go functionally as soon as you open the box. No Google account needed. Yes you can search for an app equivalent to a BlackBerry 10 feature, but... that is work.... Apparently it is work or so I'm told by the iPhone crowd as to why they can't download BBM to message me.

Posted via CB10

[KAM1138]

I think this definition is rather nonsensical and completely arbitrary. Why does it matter if it is prepackaged or not if it can be deeply integrated into the OS by a trustworthy source? An app is an app.

Slacker radio was pre-installled on BB10 (let's ignore the fact that it no longer works), so does that make it a primary function because "it is part of what the device does as delivered"? What about the Amazon appstore? StoryMaker? Foursquare?

As and aside, as you know well, I too always advocate using whatever works for you. I'm just having a conversation.

First, I'd suggest that slicing a quote out of a paragraph might be what's arbitrary here. Perhaps it would have been better to consider the very next sentence where I say: THAT said, the lines are very blurry.

Furthermore,"Third party" is not arbitrary. That's a fairly distinct line, and another would be what is included out of the box. As you mention, sometimes third-party apps are included in a device, and a given user might view those as important or not (or even annoying bloatware). Those things are not core functions of a mobile communication device--again Phone Calls, E-mail, Texting, Camera, clock/alarm, file management, PDA functions, Web Browsing AND the ability to navigate through those functions.

If you want to think about it a different way--simply look at the common things that pretty much every phone does--like those I just listed. That's a fair attempt at describing PRIMARY functionality. I'd further argue that a mobile phone and its OS is a product in itself, regardless of whether you add other things to that product.

A banking app, specific to a given user's chosen business partner is NOT core functionality of a, regardless of how highly valuable or beloved it is to you. My Wife's favorite mobile game is not core functionality. Someone's Trade show app is not core functionality, even if they find it really useful.

KAM

[conite]

I guess that the difference is that bb10 is ready to go functionally as soon as you open the box. No Google account needed. Yes you can search for an app equivalent to a BlackBerry 10 feature, but... that is work.... Apparently it is work or so I'm told by the iPhone crowd as to why they can't download BBM to message me.

Posted via CB10

I still say, so what?

Android users (and iOS users, and BB10 users) already know what to do on their respective platforms. What we are talking about here is people switching and finding things a bit different on another platform.

It is probably more likely that a former Android user on BB10 would say "how can I download a proper media player, picture viewer, or file manager? I don't want to use the crap that was "included"", than a former BB10 user on Android would say "why don't I have a basic, lacklustre media player, picture viewer, and file manager rather than having to download something far better?".

[ohaiguise]

The struggle with switching platforms is unlearning long habits Android Forums at AndroidCentral.com

Or in the case of Android, learning how to do something far less efficiently and effectively for the sake of Google Play access.

[Loc22]

If you're not using the Hub to email try swapping out Blue Mail for Nine Email (or Aquamail), and Solid Explorer for My Files. The MS suite should have the menu item "Share" and/or "Export" then pick the appropriate app whether it be email or storage. Reader definitely has this ability.

Thank you for the suggestion I have downloaded solid Explorer & the ftp server but how do you configure it to link to my computer when I'm not at home or in my office. In BlackBerry 10 all I have to do is plug in my phone to the computer one time and it will just work. Here it asked me for some numbers or addresses. Where do I get these?

Is MS suite another app? Is this the one that I can share more than one document at the same time? I'm also trying out hub but it's terrible at the moment coz messages that I have read still shows not read.

Ooh yes, I didn't mention earlier that one more problem I find with android is that the file structure is pretty complicated too. To many sub directories but I'm not sure where and which one goes where and I can't customise where I want to save the files so I can retrieve them conveniently later.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Loc22]

I guess that the difference is that bb10 is ready to go functionally as soon as you open the box. No Google account needed. Yes you can search for an app equivalent to a BlackBerry 10 feature, but... that is work.... Apparently it is work or so I'm told by the iPhone crowd as to why they can't download BBM to message me.

Posted via CB10

Totally agree with you. On all my previous smartphones from the time of the handspring until now it's ;

1. Open box
2. Insert Sim
3. Switch on
4. Plug into computer so that it automatically configure everything, back up data and download my contacts.
5. Just use almost everything I need is already there.

Here I need to do so many more things and download so many more apps.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[z10Jobe]

I still say, so what?

Android users (and iOS users, and BB10 users) already know what to do on their respective platforms. What we are talking about here is people switching and finding things a bit different on another platform.

It is probably more likely that a former Android user on BB10 would say "how can I download a proper media player, picture viewer, or file manager? I don't want to use the crap that was "included"", than a former BB10 user on Android would say "why don't I have a basic, lacklustre media player, picture viewer, and file manager rather than having to download something far better?".

You may say so what because you know how to download which apps on a phone as do most of us on this site. Not everybody has your level of expertise.

Btw, I get by on those out of the box lacklustre BlackBerry items including the Hub with my numerous email and other accounts.

I'm not knocking Android and it's customization options, but out of the box BB 10 is better.

Via z10.



Posted via CB10

[Thud Hardsmack]

Thank you for the suggestion I have downloaded solid Explorer & the ftp server but how do you configure it to link to my computer when I'm not at home or in my office. In BlackBerry 10 all I have to do is plug in my phone to the computer one time and it will just work. Here it asked me for some numbers or addresses. Where do I get these?

Use TeamViewer, VNC, Chrome remote, or another remote software solution for full access; there's a couple "cloud" storage options that use your own computer a la Link/Blend but they aren't free; and I personally haven't tried it but it's possible to access your own network if you have static WLAN and LAN addresses.

Is MS suite another app? Is this the one that I can share more than one document at the same time? I'm also trying out hub but it's terrible at the moment coz messages that I have read still shows not read.

Microsoft Office, sorry. Word, PP, Excel, Access.

Ooh yes, I didn't mention earlier that one more problem I find with android is that the file structure is pretty complicated too. To many sub directories but I'm not sure where and which one goes where and I can't customise where I want to save the files so I can retrieve them conveniently later.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

Solid Explorer should cure that. Create your folders, make bookmarks and/or add to home screen.

Just out of curiosity, does WhatsApp figure prominently in all your use issues with Android? It's the one app you have that I've never used besides Samsung My Files.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[darkehawke]

You may say so what because you know how to download which apps on a phone as do most of us on this site. Not everybody has your level of expertise.

Btw, I get by on those out of the box lacklustre BlackBerry items including the Hub with my numerous email and other accounts.

I'm not knocking Android and it's customization options, but out of the box BB 10 is better.

Via z10.



Posted via CB10

Some people prefer out of the box Android though which can be as complete as BB10
Don't make the mistake of thinking vanilla Android is the same as out of the box Android.
There are plenty of options on Android that offers a different experience for different needs
It's subjective.
BB10 caters to one need, Android caters to multiple needs, iOS tries to be the jack of all trades.
It's all subjective

[murphcid]

Every HTC I have owned has come with everything I need to get going. Plus the HTC software, I open box, power up phone, plug into my computer, and boom, everything is downloaded to the phone, contacts, music, etc. No pain, no mess, no fuss. It is called HTC Sync Manager. I am sure that most Android phones have something similar. So I don't get your point. BB10 has what, like twenty total apps, some of which are kludges? Vs Android with thousands to chose from.

Totally agree with you. On all my previous smartphones from the time of the handspring until now it's ;

1. Open box
2. Insert Sim
3. Switch on
4. Plug into computer so that it automatically configure everything, back up data and download my contacts.
5. Just use almost everything I need is already there.

Here I need to do so many more things and download so many more apps.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Alyn33]

The main pain of the Blackberry OS was the apps. The Blackberry operating system is very good from my point of view but because of the lack of the apps they lost a great deal. From the begin of the OS 10 they should have invested very much and in the apps development part. If that part was developed properly they wouldn't move to Android.

[Loc22]

Use TeamViewer, VNC, Chrome remote, or another remote software solution for full access; there's a couple "cloud" storage options that use your own computer a la Link/Blend but they aren't free; and I personally haven't tried it but it's possible to access your own network if you have static WLAN and LAN addresses.



Microsoft Office, sorry. Word, PP, Excel, Access.



Solid Explorer should cure that. Create your folders, make bookmarks and/or add to home screen.

Just out of curiosity, does WhatsApp figure prominently in all your use issues with Android? It's the one app you have that I've never used besides Samsung My Files.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

Thanks for the suggestions.

No WhatsApp is important but others like;

- Adobe Acrobat Reader
- Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint too

They don't let me save the file I have been sent to a specific folder and don't let me choose the name I want to save it in. I also don't know which folder they are saved in so it it terribly difficult for find the file and forward them to my staff for their actions. I find that I need to use the computer more these days.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Loc22]

Every HTC I have owned has come with everything I need to get going. Plus the HTC software, I open box, power up phone, plug into my computer, and boom, everything is downloaded to the phone, contacts, music, etc. No pain, no mess, no fuss. It is called HTC Sync Manager. I am sure that most Android phones have something similar. So I don't get your point. BB10 has what, like twenty total apps, some of which are kludges? Vs Android with thousands to chose from.

Blackberry has Link that would transfer all contacts, calendars, notes, music, movies, documents, etc from a previous Android, iOS or Windows Phone. All you have to do is switch on your phone, plug in to your computer, follow the instructions step by step to choose which OS you were using prior to this.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Thud Hardsmack]

Thanks for the suggestions.

No WhatsApp is important but others like;

- Adobe Acrobat Reader
- Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint too

They don't let me save the file I have been sent to a specific folder and don't let me choose the name I want to save it in. I also don't know which folder they are saved in so it it terribly difficult for find the file and forward them to my staff for their actions. I find that I need to use the computer more these days.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

If you have Solid Explorer installed, try using Share (or Export) from whichever app you're using, and from the menu select "Save to" (it will have a Solid Explorer icon). Then follow the prompts to save your file(s) where you like. Solid also has the ability to search and it can go quite deep, as long as you know even part of the file/folder name it should find anything.

[RumoredNow]

Or in the case of Android, learning how to do something far less efficiently and effectively for the sake of Google Play access.

Whatever your views, you have to learn to live with the device you have and not try and force it to be the device you used to drive. I'm not trying to make a value judgement. I'm trying to help the OP. But thanks for politicizing my advice which comes from experience having used (in order): feature phones, Android, feature phones, webOS, Android, webOS + Android (2 devices), Ubuntu Touch ports, Android, Ubuntu Touch ports + Firefox OS ports dual boot, Android, Sailfish ports, Android, Windows Phone 8.x, iOS, Windows Phone 8.x, Firefox OS dedicated device, Windows 8.x + Windows RT (2 devices), Windows 10 Mobile + Windows RT (2 devices), Windows 10 Mobile + Windows RT + Android (3 devices)...

I think I've learned something about flexibility and working with an OS rather than fighting against it to try and make it conform to an old habit one can't let go of.

[Thud Hardsmack]

The main pain of the Blackberry OS was the apps. The Blackberry operating system is very good from my point of view but because of the lack of the apps they lost a great deal. From the begin of the OS 10 they should have invested very much and in the apps development part. If that part was developed properly they wouldn't move to Android.

They did. Developers weren't on board. Some, in the beginning, but there were some big names that refused and over time most decided to stick with iOS and Android.

[DreadPirateRegan]

Whatever your views, you have to learn to live with the device you have and not try and force it to be the device you used to drive. I'm not trying to make a value judgement. I'm trying to help the OP. But thanks for politicizing my advice which comes from experience having used (in order): feature phones, Android, feature phones, webOS, Android, webOS + Android (2 devices), Ubuntu Touch ports, Android, Ubuntu Touch ports + Firefox OS ports dual boot, Android, Sailfish ports, Android, Windows Phone 8.x, iOS, Windows Phone 8.x, Firefox OS dedicated device, Windows 8.x + Windows RT (2 devices), Windows 10 Mobile + Windows RT (2 devices), Windows 10 Mobile + Windows RT + Android (3 devices)...

I think I've learned something about flexibility and working with an OS rather than fighting against it to try and make it conform to an old habit one can't let go of.

WOW...

What is your fave OS since you been with so many? If it's BB10, second fave? Was Danger as in the sidekicks rims os with no name? I had all the sidekicks back then and loved them things! I was led to them with a discount when they shut down AOL pager powered by RIM! I remember the name Danger!..

-Dread Pirate Regan

[KAM1138]

Every HTC I have owned has come with everything I need to get going. Plus the HTC software, I open box, power up phone, plug into my computer, and boom, everything is downloaded to the phone, contacts, music, etc. No pain, no mess, no fuss. It is called HTC Sync Manager. I am sure that most Android phones have something similar. So I don't get your point. BB10 has what, like twenty total apps, some of which are kludges? Vs Android with thousands to chose from.

BB10 with its basic functions provides me with a way to handle 90% of what I do in a way that's more efficient (at least for me) and with a smoother, integrated way. So, what MY point is...thousands of supposed choices to do what? Little that matters (to me). I realize other people rate those specific things (mostly third-party) very high in their list of needs.

So, for people that do not have a lot of specific App requirements (beyond very common ones), using Android is a LOSS--because of the interface/interaction deficiencies. As I see it, Android remains a stilted, broken, clumsy thing, whereas Blackberry is simple, clean, and flows. Android continues to try and add OS functionality to do what BB10 does as part of its inherent design.

Other people might enjoy mashing the back button or home button, and that works for them.

KAM

[KAM1138]

Whatever your views, you have to learn to live with the device you have and not try and force it to be the device you used to drive. I'm not trying to make a value judgement. I'm trying to help the OP. But thanks for politicizing my advice which comes from experience having used (in order): feature phones, Android, feature phones, webOS, Android, webOS + Android (2 devices), Ubuntu Touch ports, Android, Ubuntu Touch ports + Firefox OS ports dual boot, Android, Sailfish ports, Android, Windows Phone 8.x, iOS, Windows Phone 8.x, Firefox OS dedicated device, Windows 8.x + Windows RT (2 devices), Windows 10 Mobile + Windows RT (2 devices), Windows 10 Mobile + Windows RT + Android (3 devices)...

I think I've learned something about flexibility and working with an OS rather than fighting against it to try and make it conform to an old habit one can't let go of.

What you say about having to live with the device you use is true, It makes me ask why? Or more specifically, why in today's world with massive amounts of money being spent on mobile devices, do we have so few choices. We have no WebOS option, and perhaps no BB10 and Windows Phone options in the not-too-distant future.

So, while it is true that ALL the systems have their strengths and weaknesses, it seems like we're getting LESS options to choose what we like, rather than more, and that's going backwards in my view.

The fact that none of these systems IS providing everything that we want means that there's a lack of innovation or capability in all of them. So, we as consumers are settling for inferior products, forced to make a choice between which shortcoming we can live most easily with. That's a pretty sad statement about technology, and the ability for good technology to thrive.

KAM

[Witmen]

The main pain of the Blackberry OS was the apps. The Blackberry operating system is very good from my point of view but because of the lack of the apps they lost a great deal. From the begin of the OS 10 they should have invested very much and in the apps development part. If that part was developed properly they wouldn't move to Android.

They invested very heavily in app development in the beginning. I was one of the developers that was supporting them back before launch. In exchange for apps, I received multiple free BlackBerry PlayBooks, a Dev Alpha A, 2 Dev Alpha B, a Dev Alpha C, 2 LE Red Z10s, all expenses paid trip to Orlando Florida along with $500 in spending cash, and literally $200 a pop for each and every garbage Android app I ported over for them. I lost count, but it added up to thousands of dollars in cash.

If you total it all up, BlackBerry paid me around ten thousand dollars to develop apps for BlackBerry 10. I'm not the only developer who got all of those rewards. There were hundreds of people doing it. The major problem with writing apps for BB10 is there was no one else to pay you for your apps besides BlackBerry itself. The ROI simply wasn't there for most developers. The only money I made from my BlackBerry apps came from BlackBerry.

You have to have users who are willing to buy apps to get app developers to continue to support your platform.

[cribble2k]

I guess that the difference is that bb10 is ready to go functionally as soon as you open the box. No Google account needed. Yes you can search for an app equivalent to a BlackBerry 10 feature, but... that is work.... Apparently it is work or so I'm told by the iPhone crowd as to why they can't download BBM to message me.

Posted via CB10

Android also comes with everything you need, right out of the box.

I can't think of a time when I bought a new Android device and was not be able to text and email (or make a call) as soon as I turned it on. The built in Google Apps work great, and some OEMs (Samsung / LG) have their own apps for these functions as well.

As for the Google Account, I believe on Android 6 and up, you can skip that step.

[conite]

So, while it is true that ALL the systems have their strengths and weaknesses, it seems like we're getting LESS options to choose what we like, rather than more, and that's going backwards in my view.

KAM

I don't see it that way.

With iOS, you have a toaster with 1 button - heat toast. Simple, out of the box for lay people.

With Android, you have the ultimate in customisability. It can be whatever you want, and you can control it to match your exact workflow. It's a toaster with 100 knobs, 50 dials, and 75 levers. The ecosystem gives it the range and breadth of ultimate choice.

[jope28]

I don't see it that way.

With iOS, you have a toaster with 1 button - heat toast. Simple, out of the box for lay people.

With Android, you have the ultimate in customisability. It can be whatever you want, and you can control it to match your exact workflow. It's a toaster with 100 knobs, 50 dials, and 75 levers. The ecosystem gives it the range and breadth of ultimate choice.

You're describing rooted Android.
First thing I do on my Android tablets is root and install 'AdAway' and 'Servers Ultimate Pro' (needs root access for some options) after uninstalling some system apps.
Can't imagine owning an Android device without Adaway installed.

An Android device without being able to manage root access is like having a PC with no Admin access. You only need it at times, but should be able to manage it or restrict it when needed.


Edit for clarity : replaced 'speaking about' with 'describing'.

 Passport filter-evading the NSA  Make BlackBerry Great Again!

[Thud Hardsmack]

You're speaking about rooted Android.
First thing I do on my Android tablets is root and install 'AdAway' and 'Servers Ultimate Pro' (needs root access for some options) after uninstalling some system apps.
Can't imagine owning an Android device without Adaway installed.

An Android device without being able to manage root access is like having a PC with now Admin access. You only needed at times, but should be able to manage it or restricted when needed.

 Passport filter-evading the NSA  Make BlackBerry Great Again!

He's not talking about rooting. He meant by using a preferred launcher and apps users can customize Android as they see fit, whereas with iOS there's a selection of apps but the UI is the UI.