12-16-16 03:49 PM
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  1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    It seems to be the common wisdom in these forums that Microsoft's failure with its Nokia acquisition, and the resulting dominant Android-iOS duopoly means that the window of opportunity for a "Windows Phone" has closed permanently due to an overwhelming app gap and lack of developer support.

    I'm not convinced.

    Microsoft and Qualcomm recently announced that Windows 10 Pro running Win32 apps will come to portable devices with ARM chips in 2017. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...intel-iwfrztwm so we can expect LTE on tablets and laptops with long battery life in the near future.

    Microsoft has also been successfully positioning its cloud and server-based VOIP, Skype for Business (formerly Lync), as a replacement for enterprise PBX systems, offering a very compelling Unified Messaging solution.

    With these offerings, enterprises could easily provide small phablets or 2-in-1 devices that would allow employees to ditch a smart phone permanently for work and use a single phone number everywhere, with access to all corporate resources with a single robust security access model.

    This would reduce complexity, improve productivity, enhance security and save money.

    Users would be able to run Windows Universal apps or Win32 apps everywhere.

    Consumers who still want access to Android/iOS apps could keep their private phones, but enterprises could phase out support because the majority of employees could be issued a single portable computing device that includes mobile voice/data, as well as all their other software tools.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft goes very hard after this market segment to protect its core position as the backbone of corporate technology. With these devices replacing corporate laptops, rapid consumer adoption would not be needed for early success, so Microsoft could focus on reducing the Enterprise app gap, which is much easier to address than the consumer app gap.

    To me this is an obvious and compelling strategic play for Microsoft to make. Windows RT was a failure because it wouldn't run Win32 apps. But Surface Pro has been a hit. This would extend the Surface product line into the "phablet" space.

    Posted via CB10
    12-13-16 07:38 AM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Did you get lost on your way to Windows Central?
    12-13-16 08:20 AM
  3. Soulstream's Avatar
    The only problem I see is that Win32 apps were not designed with any kind of regard for battery life, while mobile/tablet apps were. And if battery becomes a problem, then it will just be overlapping too much in functionality with a normal notebook.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-13-16 08:28 AM
  4. Old_Mil's Avatar
    I am not convinced Windows phone is dead yet either...however as someone who has windows 10 running on a desktop PC there is absolutely a split between 'programs' on your desktop computer and apps. Even if you buy into the universal app theory, designing an app for a 27 inch screen is quite different than for a 5 inch screen.

    My concern is that microsoft's current ceo lacks the same vision and risk taking ability that Chen does.
    12-13-16 08:49 AM
  5. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Did you get lost on your way to Windows Central?
    LOL. No, I am looking for an alternative to BB10 in 2018 that doesn't involve iOS or Android. I think lots of other BBOS and BB10 fans are too.

    But it raises the issue of what we are supposed to talk about here these days, other than tech Q & A about side loading old versions of apps that still work. ;-)

    Posted via CB10
    Dewwey, TgeekB and anon(3732391) like this.
    12-13-16 08:49 AM
  6. eshropshire's Avatar
    Why would I want to run Win32 apps on my phone? The mobile versions of Office and other MS apps works great. Why would new underpowered tablets be successful where the Atom based tablets failed.

    The Windows phone base is so small now that it is virtually nonexistent. I guess if MS wants to waste a few more billion it's their choice. I am surprised the MS CEO is taking the risk. Balmer was fired because of his failed mobile strategy.
    12-13-16 09:10 AM
  7. ohaiguise's Avatar
    The proposition of running full-blown Win32 apps on a tiny 5" device is probably the height of ridiculousness but then maybe I'm a luddite?
    12-13-16 09:12 AM
  8. hobgoblin1961's Avatar
    What is a Windows phone?
    Two open windows opposite the road with shouting housewives screaming at each other!

    Did I missed anything important?

    Posted either via -Passport -Classic / OS-10.3.++ is all you need
    12-13-16 10:15 AM
  9. Soulstream's Avatar
    Also 99% of win32 apps are not made to be used with touch-only controls. So to be really productive with a win32 app on a such a device you need to connect it to an external display and use a mouse and keyboard. Requiring additional equipment to be truly productive is not cost friendly.

    As that moment it would be better to just buy a separate phone and a laptop.
    12-13-16 10:28 AM
  10. thurask's Avatar
    This requires at minimum the Snapdragon 835, so don't go out and buy a Windows phone just yet.

    Until Qualcomm and Microsoft have something available to market and not just a tech demo, Windows 10 Mobile has BlackBerry 10 nipping at its heels.
    12-13-16 11:25 AM
  11. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    The only problem I see is that Win32 apps were not designed with any kind of regard for battery life, while mobile/tablet apps were. And if battery becomes a problem, then it will just be overlapping too much in functionality with a normal notebook.
    The proposition of running full-blown Win32 apps on a tiny 5" device is probably the height of ridiculousness but then maybe I'm a luddite?
    This is where Continum comes into play. You wouldn't want to run a win32 app on a 5" display. But hook your phone up to a larger display or dock, and that problem is solved. Same goes for the power issue. The idea behind this is that when you are doing work that requires a Win32 app it will be more focused and intensive, hence you will need a mouse, keyboard, display, and power supply. When you are doing more 'on the fly' type work then working directly on the phone via universal app will do.

    Now the argument has always been, why not just get a small laptop instead of hooking a phone up to all the above peripherals? And that's a good point. But I believe in the enterprise space, if I can save money by giving certain employees only a phone instead of a phone and a laptop I would seriously consider it assuming the cost savings is there.

    And in in my own personal case, I'd love to move to one single device for all of my computing needs. Right now I absolutely need to have a phone for my mobile apps, and a laptop for my Win32 apps. If I could ever combine this into one I would be very happy.
    TgeekB likes this.
    12-13-16 12:01 PM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I recently spoke to a CIO of a medium sized company (5500 employees, all of whom have laptops with docking stations, monitors, mice and keyboards at their desk and/or home). He said he would love to replace 60% of laptops (for all but the power users) with an always-connected windows device.

    He said he doesn't care if employees still want to use their personal cell phones, but he would phase out all subsidies and support for them as work devices, since calls and email could be handled in real time on their phablet/tablet/two-in-one/laptop, depending on the employee.

    One company device per employee is his goal, with a single user profile for all access/security. He said he estimates a 30-40% savings in per employee devices/support with that model, which is significant enough to get a commitment from his CFO to make it happen.

    Again, we're not talking about consumers adopting Windows phone. We're talking about the reduction of enterprise supported BYOD.

    Remember, Microsoft makes billions selling to enterprise clients. Consumers aren't lining up to pay $20k for the Surface Hub, but it's become a $1 billion business anyway.

    Posted via CB10
    TgeekB likes this.
    12-13-16 12:03 PM
  13. early2bed's Avatar
    And the existing giants in mobile computing platforms, Google and Apple, aren't going to do anything about it? One company device per employee is a nice goal for a company but what about the employees who don't necessarily want to carry two devices around all day? There is plenty of work being done on personal mobile devices like iPads and Chromebooks because it's convenient, efficient, and getting more powerful all the time.
    12-13-16 12:28 PM
  14. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    And the existing giants in mobile computing platforms, Google and Apple, aren't going to do anything about it? One company device per employee is a nice goal for a company but what about the employees who don't necessarily want to carry two devices around all day? There is plenty of work being done on personal mobile devices like iPads and Chromebooks because it's convenient, efficient, and getting more powerful all the time.
    Of course they will and currently are. Apple is eventually going to drop Mac OS and iOS will be the new standard OS across the board for all iDevices. Google will do the same thing with Chrome OS and Android. The question then becomes, out of the three, who wins the enterprise? Microsoft is the best positioned as they currently own the enterprise end user OS space. Migrating to a new version of Windows is a lot easier then ripping it out and replacing it with iOS or Android which in most orgs only run BYOD via Good, or some other EMM solution.

    Employees already are carrying around two devices, even if their phone is BYOD. They would have a BYOD phone and a company issued laptop. In this new surface phone world you'd just replace the laptop with a surface phone. What would be really smart is if Microsoft put dual LTE capable SIM's on the surface phone allowing users to have two numbers and possibly two workspaces. Now you truly have one device for everything with a split between work and personal.
    the1 and TgeekB like this.
    12-13-16 02:47 PM
  15. eshropshire's Avatar
    I recently spoke to a CIO of a medium sized company (5500 employees, all of whom have laptops with docking stations, monitors, mice and keyboards at their desk and/or home). He said he would love to replace 60% of laptops (for all but the power users) with an always-connected windows device.

    He said he doesn't care if employees still want to use their personal cell phones, but he would phase out all subsidies and support for them as work devices, since calls and email could be handled in real time on their phablet/tablet/two-in-one/laptop, depending on the employee.

    One company device per employee is his goal, with a single user profile for all access/security. He said he estimates a 30-40% savings in per employee devices/support with that model, which is significant enough to get a commitment from his CFO to make it happen.

    Again, we're not talking about consumers adopting Windows phone. We're talking about the reduction of enterprise supported BYOD.

    Remember, Microsoft makes billions selling to enterprise clients. Consumers aren't lining up to pay $20k for the Surface Hub, but it's become a $1 billion business anyway.

    Posted via CB10
    For that approach Google Apps is a much better approach than MS and their mess called O365
    I have worked developing for both and seen both at a full tech level. Google Apps are not as feature rich but are much better when collaborating with a diversified organization.

    Office 365 can only be charitably described as a solution. The amount of time we had to spend on the phone with Microsoft on getting things to work was crazy. Having to get sample code from MS India for undocumented APIs. Office 365 is a solution partners dream product. You can make a ton of money off customers who want a customized solution. Not only in development but for on going maintenance.

    Microsoft was once the new IBM, the old saying was no one got fired in 60s-80's buying IBM. Microsoft was that way in the 90s to 2000s. But since then Microsoft has written off billions in very poor decisions around mobile solutions and I know several unemployed CXOs who followed them down these paths.
    12-13-16 04:42 PM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    And the existing giants in mobile computing platforms, Google and Apple, aren't going to do anything about it? One company device per employee is a nice goal for a company but what about the employees who don't necessarily want to carry two devices around all day? There is plenty of work being done on personal mobile devices like iPads and Chromebooks because it's convenient, efficient, and getting more powerful all the time.
    I assume they will try, and I hope they're successful. But, honestly, neither Apple or Google are very good at anticipating the needs of the enterprise software market. They are happy to make a ton of money from consumers buying content in their app stores, but that's not an enterprise strategy. Google Apps are barely adequate for general office work, though they are very good for building Web applications.

    Neither Android or iOS have the chops to run major software suites in an enterprise environment. They have hardly any peripheral support, barely mulitask, and simply aren't interoperable with mission critical legacy systems.

    Certainly all of these issues could be addressed by both companies, but they've never shown a lot of interest in competing at that game, and they're way behind both Windows and Linux in things like embedded systems.

    If you need a nice front end UI for a web-based app, iOS and Android are great. They have not demonstrated the ability to run serious business-class applications, and I question if they've even been engineered with that goal in mind.

    If the priority is mobile communications with light computing, a mobile phone only approach might be fine. But if the core needs include utilizing multiple interoperable software suites and peripherals to produce code/content/analysis/etc. It's hard to see thousands of corporate folks giving up their laptops for their mobile phones.

    Microsoft has already built portable Windows devices that can take phone calls and photographs. Neither iOS or Android have built full-function corporate computers that can stand alone in the workplace. If you poll CIOs about who they would trust to meet ALL of their needs with a single device by 2018, it think you'd find that Microsoft has a lot more credibility than either iOS or Android.

    That's why I suggested that Microsoft may still have a couple of bullets left to fire, outside of the consumer market.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by bb10adopter111; 12-13-16 at 05:14 PM.
    TgeekB and LuvULongTime like this.
    12-13-16 04:49 PM
  17. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    If you need a nice front end UI for a web-based app, iOS and Android are great. They have not demonstrated the ability to run serious business-class applications, and I question if they've even been engineered with that goal in mind.
    A large number of "serious business-class applications" will simply never work on a 5" screen. It's just not the right form factor. We already know that lots of work CAN be done on a 5" screen - because it already IS being done. But much of the stuff you're talking about will always require a "serious" machine with lots of RAM, lots of hard drive (SSD) space, lots of CPU/GPU, and most importantly, a large monitor that allows the operator to see large amounts of data in detail simultaneously.

    There's never going to be a 5"-screened phone that replaces a desktop 100%. You can argue that we're already approaching the limits of what can be done on a 5" screen. The OS really has little to do with that - it's a physics problem, not a software one.

    And the docking station "solution" still doesn't solve the problem when mobile - and I don't believe anything can but a large-screen device - at which point we're back to a laptop or at least a large tablet.
    Elephant_Canyon and pgg101 like this.
    12-13-16 09:43 PM
  18. app_Developer's Avatar
    I cannot think of a win32 application at work that I would want to run on a mobile device. Not one.

    So which win32 apps are people looking forward to being able to run?
    Elephant_Canyon likes this.
    12-13-16 10:10 PM
  19. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    I cannot think of a win32 application at work that I would want to run on a mobile device. Not one.

    So which win32 apps are people looking forward to being able to run?
    Crysis of course. But you know the real question.
    LuvULongTime likes this.
    12-13-16 11:22 PM
  20. iUser's Avatar
    Nope it won't be a smart phone. It will be a PC-Phone.

    Posted through my  Z30
    12-14-16 12:16 PM
  21. JohnKCG's Avatar
    Nope it won't be a smart phone. It will be a PC-Phone.

    Posted through my  Z30
    Just like the tablets PC?,

    Posted via CB10
    12-14-16 12:21 PM
  22. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    Just like the tablets PC?,

    Posted via CB10
    No. I would assume Win32 is limited to Continuum. I seem some real world applications.
    12-14-16 02:46 PM
  23. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    No. I would assume Win32 is limited to Continuum. I seem some real world applications.
    Exactly. Win32 apps would be available while the device is "docked" and running in full windows mode. Many folks in this thread seem so confused with this concept. No one is suggesting that full Win32 apps be used on a 5" screen. But docking it and being able to use it in that capacity is a nice to have. Is it going to convince 16 year old 'Jenny' and all her teen age friends to ditch their iPhones for a Surface phone? No. But they aren't the target market. Enterprise users that currently have laptops and docking stations and do light work (ie not processor and memory intensive) would be good candidates for a device like this. He!! I want one. I hate dragging around a laptop to all my offices. I want something as small and light as possible but also something powerful enough to get the job done.
    TgeekB likes this.
    12-14-16 03:05 PM
  24. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Also, Windows universal app development separates functional coding from the interface, so it's easy to write multiple UIs that are selected based on the device being used, like mobile vs desktop websites do. There's a lot of simple ignorance among users about how this stuff actually works, it seems.

    Posted via CB10
    12-14-16 03:14 PM
  25. JohnKCG's Avatar
    Also, Windows universal app development separates functional coding from the interface, so it's easy to write multiple UIs that are selected based on the device being used, like mobile vs desktop websites do. There's a lot of simple ignorance among users about how this stuff actually works, it seems.

    Posted via CB10
    I know how it works, and for me it is perfect, but the market doesn't seem to care about, that is what Google wants with Andromeda/Fuchsia OS (the New OS) but made in a totally inverse way (going from mobile devices (ARM if you wanna go technical) to desktops-like devices)

    Posted via CB10
    12-14-16 03:32 PM
33 12

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