[MarsupilamiX]

That's a great narrative, but not exactly accurate. They started losing subscribers before the launch of BB10. If I recall correctly, their Q2 loss was larger than anyone's predictions.

Better hardware sounds good, except for the fact that BBOS can't handle those specs. No multi-core support, no split-memory (eg runtime v. storage) support, no LTE support, no large memory support, etc.

BBOS needed to be rewritten from the ground up. It was an embedded OS that was patch way beyond it's design specifications and was all out of gum and bailing wire.

Better hardware wasn't going to do anything without the software to support it. BlackBerry bet that it would be quicker to start with a well-performing base and build on that. And they were probably right.

The way they went about it may have been wrong. But that's a lesson learned only through hindsight.

Of course that is correct.

Of course the monetary losses BlackBerry realised shortly after the OS7 release did happen.
In a time where BB10 was still far away.

Of course, BlackBerry's marketshare loss happened way before BB10 and of course BlackBerry had financial losses for a certain number of quarters, long before BB10 made an appearance.

Of course the technical standpoint you have, is also correct.

And of course BelfastD, as it already occured in past debates, is still incapable to accept facts.
Why this is the case...
Well, who knows.
He definitely is completely unable to accept, that BBOS was already outdated while the first Storm was released and that it became clear with that device, that BlackBerry has no future in any market, with that OS.

Posted via CB10

[lnichols]

.

You're seriously underestimating BBOS, it was far more stable, more flexibile and in certain ways more powerful then BB10

Posted via CB10

OK now you are killing your credibility with those statements. BBOS was never stable. It required constant battery pulls to work, even at rev 7 they had minimized it but it was still required periodically. BB10 is way better than BBOS in that respect. Just because it doesn't support some BBOS features yet doesn't make it more powerful or scalable. It in no way would have ever have been able to play a game with a Gigs worth of data. Also the way they have done the security certifications with BB10 is by far superior than BBOS because every compiled version of BBOS had to be ran through FIPS, but with BB10 you just have to have the Neutrino version and Crypto kernel version correct on any ARMV7 hardware and that device is approved. That is a huge advantage for BlackBerry going forward as FIPS testing is always slow. Also devs always complained about developing apps for BBOS compared to Android and iOS, but we hear good things about the flexibility of BB10 for app development. BBOS can't compete with cheap Androids anymore, so it definitely can't compete with mid to upper tier Android and iOS.

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[Bbnivende]

I love going back in time . What was I thinking when I purchased a 9900 in the fall of 2012?
From Dec 2011.


The fall of Blackberry – The Express Tribune Blog

[belfastdispatcher]

OK now you are killing your credibility with those statements. BBOS was never stable. It required constant battery pulls to work, even at rev 7 they had minimized it but it was still required periodically. BB10 is way better than BBOS in that respect. Just because it doesn't support some BBOS features yet doesn't make it more powerful or scalable. It in no way would have ever have been able to play a game with a Gigs worth of data. Also the way they have done the security certifications with BB10 is by far superior than BBOS because every compiled version of BBOS had to be ran through FIPS, but with BB10 you just have to have the Neutrino version and Crypto kernel version correct on any ARMV7 hardware and that device is approved. That is a huge advantage for BlackBerry going forward as FIPS testing is always slow. Also devs always complained about developing apps for BBOS compared to Android and iOS, but we hear good things about the flexibility of BB10 for app development. BBOS can't compete with cheap Androids anymore, so it definitely can't compete with mid to upper tier Android and iOS.

Posted via CB10

There hasn't been a day when I haven't had to reboot my Q10 or it hasn't rebooted itself since I bought it, all for various reasons, mainly refusing to connect to BB Link, so no, BB10 is not more stable then BBOS.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

I look at it in a more simplistic way, they put a lot of money in the BB10 platform, they built the devices and they're not selling. No matter how you look at it BB10 project was a disaster.

BB7 on the Other hand has already paid for itself, it was after all designed and brought into production almost 3 years ago, and for 2 years after have been making profit on it and increasing their subscriber base up to a point where they became simply too old, too old even for me the biggest BBOS fan.


Let's not argue about it and analize deep into the numbers when the bigger story is plain and obvious.

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The last sentence says it all.
The bigger story is obvious, apparently not for you though.
SMH...

Of course you don't want to look at the details, because they would completely contradict what you said.

You can't even tell me about the ASP of the hardware running BBOS and BB10.

You can't even prove that you are right, as you have no facts.

You still can't accept, that even BlackBerry knew that they needed QNX and that they actually should have bought it even earlier.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/respec...154400153.html

You still only have useless opinions, that are not compliant with our reality.
The facts still contradict what you say, and your inability to accept it, is actually kind of humorous at this point in time.

You saying that OS7 has already paid for itself, is the best joke though.
I have quoted it, and linked to it, in at least one other thread where you have disseminated the same fallacies, so I won't even bother to search a lot for it again, as you were already provided with the info.

In any case, BlackBerry's financials were bad under OS7 and they had losses 2 quarters after its introduction.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/resear...204114227.html

There hasn't been a day when I haven't had to reboot my Q10 or it hasn't rebooted itself since I bought it, all for various reasons, mainly refusing to connect to BB Link, so no, BB10 is not more stable then BBOS.

Posted via CB10

And again your useless anecdotal evidence.
I have no reboots on my Z, didn't have them on 10.0, don't have them on 10.2.

Every reboot I had, was because of an OS update or the battery draining completely.

If Link fails or not, doesn't have anything to do with BB10's stability.

But it's okay, everybody knows that your opinion weighs way harder than facts...

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

I wasn't confident BIS would be around for the duration of the contract. n the end I got a good deal with a free Q10 so I jumped at it, even without the phone the deal was good so I figured I could buy something else if I can't live with it.

Posted via CB10

Since this thread is about vindication:
What happened to your confidence that "BIS is here to stay"?

I thought that this concept, of BIS being gone pretty soon, wouldn't even cross your mind.
You were so proud when someone from BlackBerry South Africa said, "BIS is here to stay".
http://za.blackberry.com/campaigns/b...act-files.html

Posted via CB10

[Lendo]

Let's keep the personal attacks out if the discussion. State your case, cite your source and disprove the other side, but attacking each other will only bring this thread to a close.

Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk 4

[lnichols]

There hasn't been a day when I haven't had to reboot my Q10 or it hasn't rebooted itself since I bought it, all for various reasons, mainly refusing to connect to BB Link, so no, BB10 is not more stable then BBOS.

Posted via CB10

I don't use Link so very stable for me. Funny I don't remember any Link like functionality in BBOS.....

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

I don't use Link so very stable for me. Funny I don't remember any Link like functionality in BBOS.....

Posted via CB10

The problem is it refuses to connect to BlackBerry Link unless I reboot it. Legacy never had a problem connecting to Desktop Manager.

Posted via CB10

[southlander]

There hasn't been a day when I haven't had to reboot my Q10 or it hasn't rebooted itself since I bought it, all for various reasons, mainly refusing to connect to BB Link, so no, BB10 is not more stable then BBOS.

Posted via CB10

I have two flawless Z10s. Link itself is not very good. I'll grant you that. But it's getting a lot better.

Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1443

[southlander]

The problem is it refuses to connect to BlackBerry Link unless I reboot it. Legacy never had a problem connecting to Desktop Manager.

Posted via CB10

Search the legacy forums for all the issues folks had connecting to BlackBerry Desktop Manager. Maybe you never had issues. Really its more of the quirks of USB drivers initialization than anything regardless of the host application. Really has little to do with BlackBerry 10 vs. BBOS.

Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1443

[bobauckland]

OK now you are killing your credibility with those statements. BBOS was never stable. It required constant battery pulls to work, even at rev 7 they had minimized it but it was still required periodically. BB10 is way better than BBOS in that respect. Just because it doesn't support some BBOS features yet doesn't make it more powerful or scalable. It in no way would have ever have been able to play a game with a Gigs worth of data. Also the way they have done the security certifications with BB10 is by far superior than BBOS because every compiled version of BBOS had to be ran through FIPS, but with BB10 you just have to have the Neutrino version and Crypto kernel version correct on any ARMV7 hardware and that device is approved. That is a huge advantage for BlackBerry going forward as FIPS testing is always slow. Also devs always complained about developing apps for BBOS compared to Android and iOS, but we hear good things about the flexibility of BB10 for app development. BBOS can't compete with cheap Androids anymore, so it definitely can't compete with mid to upper tier Android and iOS.

Posted via CB10

I tell you what, I have to say, at this point, BB7 was way more stable, reliable and in some ways powerful for me than BB10 to date.

Stable and reliable - No issues with random reboots. No official update deleting all my texts on a business targeted device. No long periods where emails will just not sync with no reason. No buggy communications app like WhatsApp not showing messages for no reason in the silly Hub. BBM was more stable, no fails on pics sending, proper group alerts, and PINGs that made sense.

Powerful - Obviously in many ways BB10 is more powerful in terms of the apps and games it can run, the smoothness, and flow etc. The camera is also a huge improvement.
But in some ways, like text editing, email functionality, LED functionality, push functionality, banking app availability, convenience key availability, docking charging point availability, speaker placement on the device, roaming ease, data compression, and a few other ways, BB7 was more powerful for me, and clearly for other consumers as well, which is why now that the Z10 can be had for as much as the much older 9900, it's still not shifting.

It's all opinions in the end, but BlackBerry have, in my own opinion, not brought enough of BBOS into BB10, yet. And it's cost them.
If anything, BB10 has prepared me for life without a BlackBerry, the only BlackBerry thing about it is the keyboard, which I still enjoy using, everything else that I loved is gone.

[belfastdispatcher]

To quote Kevin in the recent podcast with Rene: "BB10 is the un-blackberry"

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