[Lead_Express]

I've been observing a trend amognst those I know who are issued a BlackBerry for business use: they tend to hate them. In fact, only one of them uses a BlackBerry as a personal phone. I ask them why and the response is always something irrational like "because BlackBerry sucks!" or "You can't do anything with those phones." Then they see the apps I have on my personal 'berry and didn't know BBs were able to do that. Their business phones are limited as to what they can do with them and as a result of this experience they believe that BlackBerry is just a limited device. I think this is part of the reason people are so turned off by BBs.

I know the Androids and iPhones are great products on there own, but do you think the business image and experience helps kill sales to the consumer? Am I on to something or am I way off?

[NJPhilliesPhan]

It surely does, it makes BBs look like boring corporate phones. What's in is touchscreen multimedia powerhouses. And with the exception of the new Torch BB just don't fit in. Keyboards are viewed as something of the past.

[Laura Knotek]

Hopefully BlackBerry Balance will change that perception.

[ubizmo]

It surely does, it makes BBs look like boring corporate phones. What's in is touchscreen multimedia powerhouses. And with the exception of the new Torch BB just don't fit in. Keyboards are viewed as something of the past.

Your first sentence is plausible; the last one isn't. I work with lots of young people every day (18-22 year-olds). Keyboards are extremely popular with this set. A good number of the phones are qwerty Androids of one sort or another, but it's clear to me that keyboards are far from dead.

I agree with the premise that the "business tool" image diminishes ("kills" is too strong) consumer interest. It creates a stereotype that says that BlackBerrys are "not for fun". A glance at the BlackBerry web site shows that they're trying to fight that stereotype. The current AT&T commercial for the 9810 in the US goes overboard in the other direction, depicting the BB as a device for slackers. But I think for most people, especially people who haven't used one, BB is perceived as a very button-down device.

[Mecca EL]

What isn't considered is that RIM - like apple - runs a hardware AND software company. They don't make "throw-away" phones, or novelty devices; they produce data secure units. Business is business, whether commercial or personal, and I feel safe transacting a payment on the fly, bbm'ing other users, viewing messages on social sites, and downloading approved apps, knowing that my phone isn't leaking my business.
Yes, R&D is slow; yes, RIM isn't hip and trendy anymore; yes, there have been let downs. I rather curse my phone for not being popular than find out I've been identity-jacked, and cursing at my banks CS rep.
Only in America, is the propaganda machine making claims that RIM has reached its end. The global market speaks otherwise

[Laura Knotek]

I think another issue behind the perception is that the company-issued Blackberry is in many cases very old and outdated.

Businesses do not upgrade like consumers do. Chances are the desktop PCs in the office are old and outdated too, compared to what people have in their houses.

One of my classmates had a company-issued Blackberry. It was an 8330. His personal device was an HTC Evo. There is absolutely no comparison there. I wouldn't like being stuck with a 4 year old device either.

If these business users actually got current Blackberry models (and were able to use Blackberry Balance to still use apps and separate personal/business functions), they would probably be a lot happier.

[sleepngbear]

The other aspect that no one has touched on is that those company-issued BB's, in addition to the points Laura made, are locked down by BES. Some companies employ stricter rules than others, but most of them limit what apps can be installed and even features that can be used. It all contributes to the corporate wonk device image while detracting from most of what does make the thing any kind of fun.

@nj, drop the keyboard is dead thing already. Really.

[Laura Knotek]

The other aspect that no one has touched on is that those company-issued BB's, in addition to the points Laura made, are locked down by BES. Some companies employ stricter rules than others, but most of them limit what apps can be installed and even features that can be used. It all contributes to the corporate wonk device image while detracting from most of what does make the thing any kind of fun.

I was under the impression that Blackberry Balance was a way for BES users to still be able to download/install apps and do personal things on their devices. Is that not the case? http://us.blackberry.com/business/software/balance/ It seems to allow use of personal apps, from what I see on the website.

[E92Vancouver]

I've been observing a trend amognst those I know who are issued a BlackBerry for business use: they tend to hate them. In fact, only one of them uses a BlackBerry as a personal phone. I ask them why and the response is always something irrational like "because BlackBerry sucks!" or "You can't do anything with those phones." Then they see the apps I have on my personal 'berry and didn't know BBs were able to do that. Their business phones are limited as to what they can do with them and as a result of this experience they believe that BlackBerry is just a limited device. I think this is part of the reason people are so turned off by BBs.

I know the Androids and iPhones are great products on there own, but do you think the business image and experience helps kill sales to the consumer? Am I on to something or am I way off?

Nope. Lack of apps and hardware features is killing blackberry. The blackberry is totally crippled compared to the competition.

Blackberries are very popular amongst teenagers thought because they love BBM.

[blue_k]

Nope. Lack of apps and hardware features is killing blackberry. The blackberry is totally crippled compared to the competition.

Blackberries are very popular amongst teenagers thought because they love BBM.

What hardware features are lacking, other then HDMI output? There are less apps then Android, and iOS, but there are still a lot of good apps on BB.

[E92Vancouver]

What hardware features are lacking, other then HDMI output? There are less apps then Android, and iOS, but there are still a lot of good apps on BB.

A front facing camera would be nice. Software such as wi-fi hot spot is about 2 years overdue. Is RIM management that clueless? A stable OS maybe?

[qbnkelt]

I've been observing a trend amognst those I know who are issued a BlackBerry for business use: they tend to hate them. In fact, only one of them uses a BlackBerry as a personal phone. I ask them why and the response is always something irrational like "because BlackBerry sucks!" or "You can't do anything with those phones." Then they see the apps I have on my personal 'berry and didn't know BBs were able to do that. Their business phones are limited as to what they can do with them and as a result of this experience they believe that BlackBerry is just a limited device. I think this is part of the reason people are so turned off by BBs.

I know the Androids and iPhones are great products on there own, but do you think the business image and experience helps kill sales to the consumer? Am I on to something or am I way off?

I think you might be right, to an extent. I've got a 9650 that is now about a year and a half old. It is a dependable workhorse but it is boring in that I can't do anything with it. No apps at all. Not even The Weather Channel! I am in an extremely locked down BES environment.

As far as the people around me, almost everyone has another BB as a personal phone. I do too, obviously. I had a Windows phone when I got my first BB in 2004, which I HATED. The Windows phone had a colour display and a touchscreen, even though I had to use a stylus. I hated the BBerries because they were ugly and had terrible displays. My feeling about BB started to change with the 8703 so I got my first personal BB, the 8310. Been in love with them ever since.

I don't know if my experience is typical...going from hating BB to loving it, and loving Windows phones to hating them, especially now with those awful squares. I may be an extreme case, an extreme fan in that I keep buying BBerries. Right now I've got three OS 7 devices which I'm running simultaneously - I just swap out SIM cards on two of them as the mood strikes. But as much of a fan as I am I can say that the 9650 is boring and I wish I could get a new one.

As far as the keyboard being a thing of the past - hardly that. I find myself frustrated with my 9860, wishing for a keyboard when I keep making mistakes in typing. There are some of us consumers who really do prefer a keyboard. I don't even know if we're in the minority. Most of the people I work with carry BBerries as their personal device and generally one with a keyboard.

[qbnkelt]

I was under the impression that Blackberry Balance was a way for BES users to still be able to download/install apps and do personal things on their devices. Is that not the case? BlackBerry - BlackBerry Balance Technology Separates Personal from Business Information - US It seems to allow use of personal apps, from what I see on the website.

For those corporations or environments that use it. In the most secure BES environments BB Balance is not an option.

[qbnkelt]

Nope. Lack of apps and hardware features is killing blackberry. The blackberry is totally crippled compared to the competition.

Blackberries are very popular amongst teenagers thought because they love BBM.

I don't feel that my BB is crippled, not in the least.

While it is absolutely true that Android market a vast number of apps that are not available on my BB, I am running my new 9860 with no loss in my ability to do what I need to do with my day. I just put my Atrix away, and really, I'm not going through withdrawals.

There are only two things that I miss right now on my BB that I had on my Atrix....the DC Circulator app and themes. Other than that, I don't feel crippled at all.

As far as BBM, two points. I remember a certain troll a few months back who swore that there wasn't one single BB being used by a student in the New York city school system where he was supposedly a teacher. Swore this. So now we hear the argument turned on its head - that BBerries are popular with teenagers. Interesting how the argument changes depending on the writer.

The other point about BBM is that it is an extremely useful solution for people who have loved ones overseas and who don't want to get hit with huge data charges. Additionally, that little check mark, D or R is a wonderful way to know if the message recipient has seen your message. I also use it at work, for instant communication between team members.

[qbnkelt]

A front facing camera would be nice. Software such as wi-fi hot spot is about 2 years overdue. Is RIM management that clueless? A stable OS maybe?

While a front facing camera would be nice it is not a deal breaker for me. I have Skype on my 9930 and I have yet to use it, for the simple reason that I don't want to use up my data charges that way. I have my laptop if I want to Skype.

You are right on the stable OS. While I love OS 7 I am extremely ticked off at RIM for its poor execution. Devices should not be nuking or bricking overnight. This is deplorable. I do find the OS on my Android much more stable than my OS 7 devices, although I have had to do battery pulls. I have yet to do a battery pull on my new 9930 outside of loading or deleting apps. And those battery pulls don't bother me. I find it similar to rebooting my laptop when I install new software or perform some type of upgrade.

[E92Vancouver]

I don't feel that my BB is crippled, not in the least.

While it is absolutely true that Android market a vast number of apps that are not available on my BB, I am running my new 9860 with no loss in my ability to do what I need to do with my day. I just put my Atrix away, and really, I'm not going through withdrawals.

There are only two things that I miss right now on my BB that I had on my Atrix....the DC Circulator app and themes. Other than that, I don't feel crippled at all.

As far as BBM, two points. I remember a certain troll a few months back who swore that there wasn't one single BB being used by a student in the New York city school system where he was supposedly a teacher. Swore this. So now we hear the argument turned on its head - that BBerries are popular with teenagers. Interesting how the argument changes depending on the writer.

The other point about BBM is that it is an extremely useful solution for people who have loved ones overseas and who don't want to get hit with huge data charges. Additionally, that little check mark, D or R is a wonderful way to know if the message recipient has seen your message. I also use it at work, for instant communication between team members.

In Canada. teenagers love their blackberries because of BBM and battery life. I see kids with iphones plugging their iphones into power at McDonalds and the mall.

Blackberries are cheaper than iphones, easier to get and have BBM, all of which are important to teenagers.

[Chrisy]

I just think BlackBerry phones don't do as much. No video Skype, Netflix, Mobile Hotspot, Flash, free audible navigation, embedded images, etc. The apps just aren't there either. I miss Android apps I had. Even when BlackBerry does have the apps, it isn't as good as the Android or iPhone versions. That's just how it is.

Now that I bought a laptop, I went back to BlackBerry because I don't need all that stuff on my phone. I just need a keyboard and smaller device.

But things like Google Voice, Maps, etc aren't very good. I don't expect much from a BlackBerry and I know its strenghts and weaknesses.

[Pilot Prop]

I think the whole business image does hurt RIM to an extent: some people have half a** knowledge of what BBs are actually capable of and go by hear-say. All they see is iphone commercials and android ads(come on RIM!) so those are the devices that are "the best". RIM by many people is STILL viewed as a business device.

RIM could help itself out by actually putting in some real work with creative advertising to show the features BB users love and simply promoting the BB brand in itself.

[Mecca EL]

I just think BlackBerry phones don't do as much. No video Skype, Netflix, Mobile Hotspot, Flash, free audible navigation, embedded images, etc. The apps just aren't there either. I miss Android apps I had. Even when BlackBerry does have the apps, it isn't as good as the Android or iPhone versions. That's just how it is.

Now that I bought a laptop, I went back to BlackBerry because I don't need all that stuff on my phone. I just need a keyboard and smaller device.

But things like Google Voice, Maps, etc aren't very good. I don't expect much from a BlackBerry and I know its strenghts and weaknesses.

Although skype and netflix aren't native to bb phones, the playbook has been prepped to run these services. As an add-on device, and a user friendly interface, along with the larger screen and foward facing camera, there are options.

Mobile hotspot, although late, is live via os7.1; free audible navigation is live in BB Traffic beta; HTML5 makes the need for flash support on an os7 device unnecessary, etc.

I love that I can go nearly 18hrs of heavy use on these phones, without stressing about where I can plug-in for a recharge. I'm a personal business user and java hybrid builder. There's just so much that these devices can do, but the current business practices at RIM have been weak in performance.

[Chrisy]

I'm just talkimg about phones, not tabs. But like you said, all that is " coming soon" on BlackBerry phones.

I liked Skype on my Android. Was handy. I don't see carrying a tab around in my pocket for that.

[llllBULLSEYE]

Keyboards are viewed as something of the past.

maybe down the line, but not yet.
Maybe I'm going crazy, but it seems everywhere I turn I see a teenager their blackberry .
BBM is still very popular among the teenage crowd.

[omniusovermind]

lol. I tried and tried to convince my 17 yr old to get either an android or iPhone because they are more fun for browsing/multimedia/games. Guess what? BBM and a qwerty keyboard alone trumped all of my arguments. She looked at me like I had two heads. Wife is getting a BB next month too. same thing: email, social networking, BBM, and a qwerty. I'm still rocking my Android, I like web surfing more than that other stuff. But just because I like it doesn't mean I expect everyone else to, and pound my fist in the air yelling, "omg don't you know RIM is going to implode because you won't be like me!?"

[sleepngbear]

lol. I tried and tried to convince my 17 yr old to get either an android or iPhone because they are more fun for browsing/multimedia/games. Guess what? BBM and a qwerty keyboard alone trumped all of my arguments. She looked at me like I had two heads. Wife is getting a BB next month too. same thing: email, social networking, BBM, and a qwerty. I'm still rocking my Android, I like web surfing more than that other stuff. But just because I like it doesn't mean I expect everyone else to, and pound my fist in the air yelling, "omg don't you know RIM is going to implode because you won't be like me!?"

This is kinda funny. I had the opposite experience with my 17-year-old stepdaughter. I got her a Curve 3G on eBay when her message phone crapped out before she was due for an upgrade. which she said was 'ok', but as soon as upgrade time came, she wanted an iPhone. Apparently she has many more friends playing Words With Friends than are on BBM. Although I do know for a fact that she does have other friends sporting BB's...

[E92Vancouver]

lol. I tried and tried to convince my 17 yr old to get either an android or iPhone because they are more fun for browsing/multimedia/games. Guess what? BBM and a qwerty keyboard alone trumped all of my arguments. She looked at me like I had two heads. Wife is getting a BB next month too. same thing: email, social networking, BBM, and a qwerty. I'm still rocking my Android, I like web surfing more than that other stuff. But just because I like it doesn't mean I expect everyone else to, and pound my fist in the air yelling, "omg don't you know RIM is going to implode because you won't be like me!?"

I know lots of parents on BB so they can BBM their kids.

[Heavy Fluid]

I think that apps are killing the consumer interest. It's all about the apps. If you don't have them, you are setting yourself up to fail. The problem is that most of the apps, are garbage. Fake lightsabers, farting apps, a Zippo lighter app....come one...should those count? Those are time wasters. Just like Word Mole and BrickBreaker are. Those aren't apps. Get rid of all of the junk garbage apps in Android Market and iTunes, and level out the playing field. RIM still doesn't have that many apps in comparison, but most of the apps are decent.

People want apps. They see ads on TV for apps and the iPhone can do this, and Android can do that, just download the app. It's media brainwashing. My wife fell for it, with her iPhone. All she talks about is the apps.