[anon(5956773)]

Do you think they'll try to make a bold or Classic form factor?

[Bla1ze]

Probably not.

[JohnKCG]

Considering that the toolbelt has been replaced by sensitive keyboard and on screen buttons, and a probably space bar finger print sensor, The tool belt lost its sense of being, it is Just a good thing of the past

Posted via CB10

[RoseBud68]

Nope....

[davidinLA]

Never. It's pointless

[ChainPunch]

Nope.

[anon(5956773)]

You never know. They made the Classic with buttons due to demand.

[ToniCipriani]

You never know. They made the Classic with buttons due to demand.

And it was ever pointless even with BB10.

And that was brought to you by a company who has zero understanding of the modern mobile market and end up offloaded everything.

So you think TCL will follow by example?

[anon(5956773)]

Perhaps TCL isn't trying to market BlackBerry to the mass market just yet. Maybe only niche focused. You can't change a culture with 1 phone. Even the original BlackBerry and iPhone took a few years to really take off.

[idssteve]

As a toolbelt enthusiast, I'll be disappointed in humanity's choice of priorities if something resembling toolbelt doesn't re-surface some day. Next year or next century. It simply adds TOO much to comfortable operational precision for some of us.

That said, we cannot ignore the reality that Google/Android are advertising platforms. Time users spend NOT cognizantly focused with both hands, and both brain hemispheres, on the advertising platform is time Google isn't generating optimal revenue.

Muscle memory friendly HMI strategies, like PKB & toolbelts, might be too counterintuitive for optimal revenue generation by Google/Android. Imo. Fwiw.

[BlackBerry Guy]

The toolbelt was great when phones did not have touchscreen interfaces, but its functionality would be redundant on modern mobile OSs

[thurask]

The toolbelt was great when phones did not have touchscreen interfaces, but its functionality would be redundant on modern mobile OSs

Cue the chorus lamenting the introduction of touchscreens.

[ohaiguise]

There will always be a market for phones with buttons.

Never mind, surely Rudy Giuliani will ride to Chairman Chen's rescue.

[hplovecraft]

Ich don't see the tool-belt coming back any time soon. Too much screen estate needed for too little extra usage for the average user.

I on the other hand hope that the touch enabled pkb will be further developed in the android environment. I personally see a lot of possibilities here.

CB10 on my Classic

[bh7171]

It's a shame really. No other device outside of say an iPhone SE can one easily use one handed and on the go. With Android and my DTEK50 I always have to reach for the top of the screen. Never have to do this when using my Classic. After reading Slagman's helpful hints a year or so ago in regards to the tool belt and track pad the three button Android options are simply not as useful. Of course it's all user preference. At least the newer Mercury will have capacitive capabilities and shortcuts.

Via the Cobalt Classic

[idssteve]

Cue the chorus lamenting the introduction of touchscreens.

I, myself, certainly do NOT lament the "introduction" of ANYthing. In fact, I'm quite happy and thrilled for those who favor touchscreen HMI option. Options are good.

I do, however, lament the trend toward premature DEMISE of non-touch HMI options. Fewer options is rarely good. Especially when alternatives are still steep in development curve. In fact, despite many years of owning and using touch hmi, it still feels much more like a corporately coerced "arranged marriage" than anything resembling "true love". Thru the years, I've "learned to love" and respect and tolerably accept the inescapable inevitability of touch interface. But, to this day, i simply fail to HONESTLY find compelling sacrifice/benefit ratio of touch interface for MY use case.

This post is being typed, exclusively in left hand, on a "touch disabled" 9900. Right hand is getting documents printed thru a CAD station mouse. Touch prioritized Dtek60, Z30, Passport and Classic all beckon from charging stations on my desk, back in my cubicle. True love, ya kno. Lol.

Among other things, touch is really only suitable when implemented within a certain screen size range. The 65" monitor at the desk in front of me, and at multiple CAD stations in this building, are touch screen enabled. Very few fingerprints are evident on any of these. The touch interface has, so far, been a complete waste of time & $ on these "stand up to reach" monsters. Standing at a drafting table does seem somewhat natural to old T-square codgers like me BUT, thanks to sit down mouse directed CAD, drafters no longer compete with truck drivers for chiropractor time. Lol. Obviously, there is some certain maximum screen size suitable to touch interface. Mouse track still rules large screen CAD, afaik.

Likewise, some certain minimal screen size is a suitable fit for finger tip. For me, the comfortably sized Q10's "small" screen was TOO small for comfortably precise touch hmi. Once again, optical trackpad & toolbelt affords spectacularly precise operation on the even smaller 9900. In fact, after a year dedicated toward "learning to love" our Z/Q10s, my "smart guys" handed me an old 9900 and asked: "...OS aside, what can touch do that can't be done with track...??". That question still stands unanswered, imo.

I personally maintain that Classic's alleged market failure had NOthing to do with its toolbelt. Its "failure" had significantly to do with mostly missing the supposed legacy target by being an oversized, overweight, under powered, embedded battery, half baked OS... compromised offering. Imo. All antitheses to legacy holdouts. All utterly unrelated to toolbelt.

IF genuine compactness ever again enjoys significant niche market, optical track and toolbelt might just find favor for its inherent precision on really compact devices. Just a shame that the masters of tiny screen toolbelt/PKB implementation seem to have already lost much expertise that made them the masters that once dominated that niche.
A niche that BB surrendered thru schizophrenic compromise while running in abject fear of their own identity, imo. As if the relatively tiny company EVER commanded resources to build a better & cheaper Samsung. That loss is what I lament. Too bad that surrendered loss never manifested as a net win. Lose, lose is never good.

Cue the chorus lamenting the demise of options! Lol.

[xamxhun]

They made Classic.
But then Classic was one of the first BB10 devices they stopped their support.
Perhaps it didn't sell too well.


Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

I, myself, certainly do NOT lament the "introduction" of ANYthing. In fact, I'm quite happy and thrilled for those who favor touchscreen HMI option. Options are good.

I do, however, lament the trend toward premature DEMISE of non-touch HMI options. Fewer options is rarely good. Especially when alternatives are still steep in development curve. In fact, despite many years of owning and using touch hmi, it still feels much more like a corporately coerced "arranged marriage" than anything resembling "true love". Thru the years, I've "learned to love" and respect and tolerably accept the inescapable inevitability of touch interface. But, to this day, i simply fail to HONESTLY find compelling sacrifice/benefit ratio of touch interface for MY use case.

This post is being typed, exclusively in left hand, on a "touch disabled" 9900. Right hand is getting documents printed thru a CAD station mouse. Touch prioritized Dtek60, Z30, Passport and Classic all beckon from charging stations on my desk, back in my cubicle. True love, ya kno. Lol.

Among other things, touch is really only suitable when implemented within a certain screen size range. The 65" monitor at the desk in front of me, and at multiple CAD stations in this building, are touch screen enabled. Very few fingerprints are evident on any of these. The touch interface has, so far, been a complete waste of time & $ on these "stand up to reach" monsters. Standing at a drafting table does seem somewhat natural to old T-square codgers like me BUT, thanks to sit down mouse directed CAD, drafters no longer compete with truck drivers for chiropractor time. Lol. Obviously, there is some certain maximum screen size suitable to touch interface. Mouse track still rules large screen CAD, afaik.

Likewise, some certain minimal screen size is a suitable fit for finger tip. For me, the comfortably sized Q10's "small" screen was TOO small for comfortably precise touch hmi. Once again, optical trackpad & toolbelt affords spectacularly precise operation on the even smaller 9900. In fact, after a year dedicated toward "learning to love" our Z/Q10s, my "smart guys" handed me an old 9900 and asked: "...OS aside, what can touch do that can't be done with track...??". That question still stands unanswered, imo.

I personally maintain that Classic's alleged market failure had NOthing to do with its toolbelt. Its "failure" had significantly to do with mostly missing the supposed legacy target by being an oversized, overweight, under powered, embedded battery, half baked OS... compromised offering. Imo. All antitheses to legacy holdouts. All utterly unrelated to toolbelt.

IF genuine compactness ever again enjoys significant niche market, optical track and toolbelt might just find favor for its inherent precision on really compact devices. Just a shame that the masters of tiny screen toolbelt/PKB implementation seem to have already lost much expertise that made them the masters that once dominated that niche.
A niche that BB surrendered thru schizophrenic compromise while running in abject fear of their own identity, imo. As if the relatively tiny company EVER commanded resources to build a better & cheaper Samsung. That loss is what I lament. Too bad that surrendered loss never manifested as a net win. Lose, lose is never good.

Cue the chorus lamenting the demise of options! Lol.

I agree. I think there is a market for a small PKB with modern specs running Android. The 9900 screen profile is even Android compliant (not square). It would have to be cheap though.

[TheBirdDog]

While I personally love my Classic, with its toolbelt, the main reason I love it is the trackpad.

I have a Passport as well and I do love the capacitive functionality of the keyboard, however, it is fair to say that it is not as precise or functional as the trackpad yet.

Being able to use it as a cursor while browsing websites and also somehow implementing a copy/paste function without needing to use the screen would pretty much close that gap for me though and, as another member has already mentioned, hopefully they will further develop the software to add this functionality in the future.

[Troy Tiscareno]

I agree. I think there is a market for a small PKB with modern specs running Android. The 9900 screen profile is even Android compliant (not square). It would have to be cheap though.

I've thought about that (the old BBOS phones had 4:3ish landscape screens), but while you could make an Android device, I don't think you could make a Google-compliant Android device with a screen that small - it just wouldn't be usable in touch mode, especially with apps. Much like people who want to run full desktop apps (optimized for large screens and mouse input) on 5" smartphones, I think the UI just wouldn't be usable on a 2.5" 4:3 screen.

I honestly don't know if Google has minimum screen-size requirements, but I suspect that they do, and given that Google compliance mandatory for most smartphone manufacturers, that's likely to be an issue.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I've thought about that (the old BBOS phones had 4:3ish landscape screens), but while you could make an Android device, I don't think you could make a Google-compliant Android device with a screen that small - it just wouldn't be usable in touch mode, especially with apps. Much like people who want to run full desktop apps (optimized for large screens and mouse input) on 5" smartphones, I think the UI just wouldn't be usable on a 2.5" 4:3 screen.

I honestly don't know if Google has minimum screen-size requirements, but I suspect that they do, and given that Google compliance mandatory for most smartphone manufacturers, that's likely to be an issue.

Seem to remember that there was like a 4.5" minimum screen size for 5.0. Not sure about newer versions....

Bbnivende... there have been "cheap" PKB phones, the issue with them is they weren't BlackBerries running BBOS with BIS features. At this point, most of the markets where those phones would have sold.. have been licensed out to other groups. I expect they will try to sell a device in the price range their market would best react too.

Here in the US... I just don't know of many that really want smaller. Few that bought the iPhone SE did so for the price, not the form factor.

[spantch101]

The toolbelt was great when phones did not have touchscreen interfaces, but its functionality would be redundant on modern mobile OSs

I actually loved having the tool belt on my classic. Was nice to have the dedicated call and end buttons and the back button that just gets it right and stays in the same place. Same can't always be said for software buttons. And bb10 benefits from having a dedicated back button.

[idssteve]

. ... I don't think you could make a Google-compliant Android device with a screen that small - it just wouldn't be usable in touch mode, especially with apps. Much like people who want to run full desktop apps (optimized for large screens and mouse input) on 5" smartphones, I think the UI just wouldn't be usable on a 2.5" 4:3 screen.
...

Hence the logic against touch UI for truly compact handsets.

Tool belts make truly compact handsets usable. If/when compact form ever regains significant favor, something resembling toolbelt will make it possible.

[Bbnivende]

I like to think that there is a market for a PKB could roughly fit into the foot print of a Galaxy 7 or a iPhone 7.

I agree that the height of the 9900 Screen would very much limit the number of icons you could put on a page. I had no trouble using the 9900 as a touch screen device but the Icons were incredibly tiny. I doubt that Android icons could be that small.

Imagine a Mercury Compact version.



Posted via CB10

[Troy Tiscareno]

Tool belts make truly compact handsets usable. If/when compact form ever regains significant favor, something resembling toolbelt will make it possible.

The problem with that is that the market for phones that small today is in the tens or maybe hundreds of thousands - insignificant in a market that sells well over a billion a year, and hard to justify when the cost of making a single model is so high that you have to sell half a million or more just to break even.

I like to think that there is a market for a PKB could roughly fit into the foot print of a Galaxy 7 or a iPhone 7.

That's the experiment that BB/TCL is running with Mercury. We'll see if you're right.