05-01-16 06:57 PM
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  1. werkregen's Avatar
    I tend to reply faster and be more concise on the Classic. On the Priv, using the VKB cause I don't like the pkb, I don't really feel like typing so I sometimes postpone writing back and the messages are generally shorter.
    03-28-16 03:03 PM
  2. donnation's Avatar
    Your use of the word 'they' and 'you' here indicates inclusiveness. Considering that I for one have never once wrote that I feel superior for using a pkb over a vkb proves you false.

    By the same token touch screens should also be considered old school. Physical keyboards disappeared largely because it was/is simply cheaper to produce a device without one.


    To be frank, I think the answer to your OP is 'yes'. The reasoning: why would anyone even get a phone with a pkb if they did not intend to use it specifically for composing longer pieces? Or to simply spend a good amount of time communicating via written word in general? The Priv is an anomally: if you want the latest BlackBerry or an Android BlackBerry, you have no choice but because of the format you could also chose to never use, let alone never see, the pkb.
    Yes, you are correct and my apologies. It shouldn't have been an all inclusive statement.
    03-28-16 05:21 PM
  3. bfotch's Avatar
    It's safe to say almost every phone now has a capability of some kind of word document writing, but with a PKB it makes it more pleasurable to actually use it.
    For my example I am a student, and in my spare time on a bus, I like to get started on reports I have to write. It's not perfect like on a PC, but at least it gets me started. And I finish it on PC. On a VKB I wouldn't even attempt to use it, even though it's capable on most phones. I would just wait till I get on a PC. That's the difference.
    The fact that it's pleasurable to use makes me want to use word documents.
    Oshasat likes this.
    03-28-16 10:54 PM
  4. anon(1723145)'s Avatar
    Exactly Steve... I'm no Coleman Hawkins
    You meant Stephen Hawkin right? Coleman Hawkins is a jazz saxophonist

    ClassicSQC100-3/10.3.2.858
    JamesW_UK likes this.
    03-28-16 11:17 PM
  5. valer466's Avatar
    Passport PKB makes me want to write more and more.
    03-29-16 12:06 AM
  6. conbrio29's Avatar
    It's safe to say almost every phone now has a capability of some kind of word document writing, but with a PKB it makes it more pleasurable to actually use it.
    For my example I am a student, and in my spare time on a bus, I like to get started on reports I have to write. It's not perfect like on a PC, but at least it gets me started. And I finish it on PC. On a VKB I wouldn't even attempt to use it, even though it's capable on most phones. I would just wait till I get on a PC. That's the difference.
    The fact that it's pleasurable to use makes me want to use word documents.
    Agreed. It is indeed quite pleasurable to be able to type well on a physical keyboard.
    03-29-16 12:07 AM
  7. JamesW_UK's Avatar
    You meant Stephen Hawkin right? Coleman Hawkins is a jazz saxophonist

    ClassicSQC100-3/10.3.2.858
    *Grins*

    Yes, that was an intentional "typo". ;-)

    Regards
    03-29-16 03:16 AM
  8. JamesW_UK's Avatar

    <snip>

    The idea that touchscreen users are less productive cannot be proven and is very likely to be just wrong.

    Posted via CB10
    Hi SunshineStateFlyer,

    That's why in an earlier post I asked georgeeipi if he could give some links to where he'd read that.

    I can understand it being true on a personal level; if I look at myself, I feel it's definitely the case.. .but I won't believe it's across the board until I see some evidence of it. Do I feel it is because I write "more"? Does that make me more "productive"? Who can say?

    I'd expect it to be like most things when they are surveyed or suchlike. Depending on whom you ask, and the way you ask, you'll get different answers very much like these made-up possibilities, and with the general responses being split down the middle;

    We asked 100 pkb users; "Do you believe you are more productive when you use a pkb than a vkb"?

    Results;

    Yes 97%
    No 3%

    We asked 100 vkb users; "Do you believe people are more productive when they use a pkb over a vkb"?

    Yes 3%
    No 97%

    We asked 100 smartphone users; "Do you believe people are more productive when they use a pkb over a vkb"?

    Yes 49.5%
    No 50.5%

    (As a disclaimer again, those are my own predicted and "made-up" figures above)

    I really would find it interesting to know where the belief comes from that it is the case, and remember I'm a devout pkb lover, here. I can't even think of an accurate way to carry out research for this. How do you define "productive"?

    On the one hand, productive could be "composing a letter to a company", against "sorting 100 emails in an inbox", filing some into other folders and deleting others once read. One task could be seen as being easier or "better suited" to a pkb to some, whereas the other could be seen as being easier on a vkb.

    Anyway, as a sceptic, I may love a nice pkb myself, but I can't believe that that alone makes me or anyone else more or less productive without factual data (what's that lovely phrase again... oh yes, "Peer reviewed").

    I'll have to stop off on the Information Superhighway tonight on my way home, and see if I can find anything...

    Regards

    James
    TgeekB and SunshineStateFlyer like this.
    03-29-16 03:46 AM
  9. JamesW_UK's Avatar
    The thing is, a physical keyboard is a very dedicated tool which accounts for quite a big part of the whole hardware, hence, drastically reduces the screen to body ratio.

    <snip>

    Posted via CB10
    That's something else I wanted to bring up... I like to use my Z10 as my main GPS satellite navigation device in my car. It's overall size is good for me, and I like the large-ish screen at 4.2 inches (or 58.9% screen-to-body ratio, according to GSM Arena).

    I HATE the way I find it so hard to touch buttons / objects etc. within the GPS software on it, especially when I'm driving, BUT would I really want another great lump of pkb stuck on the bottom of it, either increasing it's size over all or, even worse, eating into the screen-size and making that smaller? No, I wouldn't, thank you very much!

    That said, I was looking at pictures of the Passport sitting beside a Q10 (well, it's a hobby isn't it...) and the Passport doesn't "look" that much larger. I just wonder if having the Passport (for example) in a windscreen / shield or dashboard phone holder tends to make the ball and socket angle-mechanism thingy "move" when you use enough force to press a physical key.

    What I'm getting at is that with the cheaper-end device holders I've tried and use, unless you adopt the dainty gossamer-like touch of the Principal Dancer of the Bolshoi Ballet Company, a light poke from a Neanderthal like me moves the entire phone on it's ball and socket, causing even more problems!

    Perhaps a portable Bluetooth keyboard is what I need... but would I want to...

    a) Carry it around all the time?
    b) Always be thinking about the next place I can "set it up" and use it?

    ...and worst of all...

    c) Look like a total tool for using one?

    ;-)

    Regards

    James
    03-29-16 04:12 AM
  10. Cashgap's Avatar
    No. They just seem longer.
    03-29-16 01:19 PM
  11. Cashgap's Avatar
    We asked 100 pkb users; "Do you believe you are more productive when you use a pkb than a vkb"?

    Results;

    Yes 97%
    No 3%

    We asked 100 vkb users; "Do you believe people are more productive when they use a pkb over a vkb"?

    Yes 3%
    No 97%

    We asked 100 smartphone users; "Do you believe people are more productive when they use a pkb over a vkb"?

    Yes 49.5%
    No 50.5%
    If it were a truly random sample, the second and third response groups would be nearly identical, since the third response group would be made up of 97 VKB and 3 PKB users.
    Elephant_Canyon and JamesW_UK like this.
    03-29-16 01:20 PM
  12. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    When I see an error in my text I fix it. I find typing on glass produces way more errors and therefore I have more corrections to make. On the pkb I have very few error. Therefore I tend to type more and have less frustration and enjoy sending messages.

    Posted via CB10
    Ironically, there's one right in that very sentence.... ;-D
    Nobody's perfect!

      There's a Crack in the Berry right now...  
    03-29-16 05:03 PM
  13. Dave Liao's Avatar
    I use my BlackBerry to type out restaurant reviews, long articles, and annotate my task list.
    Oshasat likes this.
    03-30-16 12:53 AM
  14. JamesW_UK's Avatar
    If it were a truly random sample, the second and third response groups would be nearly identical, since the third response group would be made up of 97 VKB and 3 PKB users.
    Hi Cashgap,

    Well spotted! ;-)

    Regards

    James
    03-30-16 01:51 AM
  15. Zedd88's Avatar
    The idea that touchscreen users are less productive cannot be proven and is very likely to be just wrong.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree. VKB users and PKB users are more likely to be equally productive. I believe the OP was trying to say that PKB users tend to type longer messages. And I agree with this based on my own experience. And this is not because I never adapted to VKB either. It was the other way around, I was a VKB user who adapted to a PKB with my Original Passport and Passport SE. Typing longer message is not equal to being more productive. Being productive means doing a lot more things in a shorter time frame. And productivity depends on one person's job/task/work/profession/etc and may not be directly linked to the keyboard one uses.

    Whenever the VKB/PKB discussion arises I always remember the Acer Iconia Laptop with a VKB (see below):
    Do PKB users write longer messages?-34440624_ovr.png
    One reviewer of the Acer Iconia nailed it when he stated that typing on a glass keyboard is slower but when he asked his friends to type on it they where divided. Half where slower and half where the same speed. Those who where typing at the same speed are used to typing while their eyes are searching for the keys (in short they are used to typing while looking at the keyboard). Those who are slower are those who are used to typing without looking at the keyboard. Instead they are looking at the screen.

    The same thing applies to phones. With VKB you need to look at the keyboard while you tap/swipe. With PKB you don't need to and instead you can look at the screen similar to when typing in the laptop.

    PKBs are built for a specific reason. And that's typing. Again, that doesn't mean you can't type long messages on a VKB but it would take more effort.
    TgeekB, fkornre, skstrials and 2 others like this.
    03-30-16 03:54 AM
  16. skstrials's Avatar
    I agree. VKB users and PKB users are more likely to be equally productive. I believe the OP was trying to say that PKB users tend to type longer messages. And I agree with this based on my own experience. And this is not because I never adapted to VKB either. It was the other way around, I was a VKB user who adapted to a PKB with my Original Passport and Passport SE. Typing longer message is not equal to being more productive. Being productive means doing a lot more things in a shorter time frame. And productivity depends on one person's job/task/work/profession/etc and may not be directly linked to the keyboard one uses.

    Whenever the VKB/PKB discussion arises I always remember the Acer Iconia Laptop with a VKB (see below):
    Click image for larger version. 

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    One reviewer of the Acer Iconia nailed it when he stated that typing on a glass keyboard is slower but when he asked his friends to type on it they where divided. Half where slower and half where the same speed. Those who where typing at the same speed are used to typing while their eyes are searching for the keys (in short they are used to typing while looking at the keyboard). Those who are slower are those who are used to typing without looking at the keyboard. Instead they are looking at the screen.

    The same thing applies to phones. With VKB you need to look at the keyboard while you tap/swipe. With PKB you don't need to and instead you can look at the screen similar to when typing in the laptop.

    PKBs are built for a specific reason. And that's typing. Again, that doesn't mean you can't type long messages on a VKB but it would take more effort.
    You nailed it brah.

    Using a pkb and not looking down is also better for your neck and spine. The hunched back of smartphone users are becoming a serious issue nowadays.

    If people bought pkb phones and they could type not looking down on their keyboards, it would be better for their neck. But the general public is not that smart.

    Posted via CB10
    03-30-16 09:03 AM
  17. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Using a pkb and not looking down is also better for your neck and spine.
    [citation needed]

    The hunched back of smartphone users are becoming a serious issue nowadays.
    [citation needed]

    But the general public is not that smart.
    [citation needed]
    TgeekB likes this.
    03-30-16 09:09 AM
  18. skstrials's Avatar
    [citation needed]


    [citation needed]


    [citation needed]
    Just Google smartphone neck pain. You will find plenty of articles and research done.

    Here is one: http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/20/health...ety-neck-pain/

    As for blind typing on a physical keyboard. It is a common sense. People use the ridges on the physical keyboards to feel each keys and type (both on a phone and computer). Don't take my word for it. Just try it yourself.

    And because people choose a phone that cannot type long messages without their necks hurting from looking down when physical keyboard phones are available that can blind type, I was saying they are stupid for that reason.

    Posted via CB10
    03-30-16 09:17 AM
  19. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Just Google smartphone neck pain. You will find plenty of articles and research done.
    How, exactly, does having a physical keyboard that is a few centimeters below the screen, and situated at the same angle as the screen, differ at all from having a touch-screen keyboard in the same position? I can look at both without changing the position of my neck at all.

    The difference with a computer is that the keyboard is in an entirely different ergonomic position from the screen. It's usually several inches, possibly more than a foot, away, and perpendicular to the screen. The example of the Acer Iconia is a terrible comparison, and the whole argument is absolutely ridiculous.
    TgeekB and JamesW_UK like this.
    03-30-16 10:33 AM
  20. TgeekB's Avatar
    Assuming everyone can use a pkb without looking without mistakes.
    I agree the neck pain is an issue though.
    Elephant_Canyon likes this.
    03-30-16 10:43 AM
  21. skstrials's Avatar
    How, exactly, does having a physical keyboard that is a few centimeters below the screen, and situated at the same angle as the screen, differ at all from having a touch-screen keyboard in the same position? I can look at both without changing the position of my neck at all.

    The difference with a computer is that the keyboard is in an entirely different ergonomic position from the screen. It's usually several inches, possibly more than a foot, away, and perpendicular to the screen. The example of the Acer Iconia is a terrible comparison, and the whole argument is absolutely ridiculous.
    What I meant was that with a physical keyboard, you can type without looking at the phone at all, not even the phone screen. Whereas, with a vkb, you still have to look at the phone screen to check your typing, even if you do not look at the keyboard.

    So you can type as you are walking and looking forward. You can type looking up when you are sitting down, with your phone by your lap.



    Posted via CB10
    03-30-16 10:46 AM
  22. guygardner73's Avatar
    Derp!

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2876
    03-30-16 11:15 AM
  23. SunshineStateFlyer's Avatar
    Hi SunshineStateFlyer,

    That's why in an earlier post I asked georgeeipi if he could give some links to where he'd read that.

    I can understand it being true on a personal level; if I look at myself, I feel it's definitely the case.. .but I won't believe it's across the board until I see some evidence of it. Do I feel it is because I write "more"? Does that make me more "productive"? Who can say?

    I'd expect it to be like most things when they are surveyed or suchlike. Depending on whom you ask, and the way you ask, you'll get different answers very much like these made-up possibilities, and with the general responses being split down the middle;

    We asked 100 pkb users; "Do you believe you are more productive when you use a pkb than a vkb"?

    Results;

    Yes 97%
    No 3%

    We asked 100 vkb users; "Do you believe people are more productive when they use a pkb over a vkb"?

    Yes 3%
    No 97%

    We asked 100 smartphone users; "Do you believe people are more productive when they use a pkb over a vkb"?

    Yes 49.5%
    No 50.5%

    (As a disclaimer again, those are my own predicted and "made-up" figures above)

    I really would find it interesting to know where the belief comes from that it is the case, and remember I'm a devout pkb lover, here. I can't even think of an accurate way to carry out research for this. How do you define "productive"?

    On the one hand, productive could be "composing a letter to a company", against "sorting 100 emails in an inbox", filing some into other folders and deleting others once read. One task could be seen as being easier or "better suited" to a pkb to some, whereas the other could be seen as being easier on a vkb.

    Anyway, as a sceptic, I may love a nice pkb myself, but I can't believe that that alone makes me or anyone else more or less productive without factual data (what's that lovely phrase again... oh yes, "Peer reviewed").

    I'll have to stop off on the Information Superhighway tonight on my way home, and see if I can find anything...

    Regards

    James
    Yes, I generally agree. Many have already pointed out their opinion regarding productivity and it has also been a well discussed topic here already.

    However, just to give you my own opinion on it as well:

    First of all, let's have a look at where I think that thought comes from, that BlackBerry users are more productive. I intentionally said BlackBerry users, not pkb users, because to the general public that's the same thing: BlackBerry = PKB

    BlackBerry phones have always been wide spread with business people. Long before smartphones were even a thing, companies started issuing them. It was very much a status symbol back then as mostly senior management was using them.

    Even when it became more common to own a BlackBerry, it was still seen very often with business people. So somehow, people associate BlackBerry with business, and business with productivity, because that's what you (should) do at work, right?

    When things changed and BlackBerry was losing customers, both BlackBerry as a company, as well as the more "determined" BlackBerry users kept clinging to the productivity reputation.

    It has been an ongoing debate here whether BlackBerry users are productive. I think it's a nonsense. Are Windows users more productive than Apple users? Or maybe the other way around because there are less games on Apple?

    In the end, it's about the user and not about the device. The user is the active part. A smartphone is only a tool to make certain things easier and while BlackBerry may still be very strong in email as an example, there are many shortcomings in other fields which also account for productivity.





    Posted via CB10
    JamesW_UK likes this.
    03-30-16 12:15 PM
  24. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    What I meant was that with a physical keyboard, you can type without looking at the phone at all, not even the phone screen. Whereas, with a vkb, you still have to look at the phone screen to check your typing, even if you do not look at the keyboard.

    So you can type as you are walking and looking forward. You can type looking up when you are sitting down, with your phone by your lap.
    I'm seriously amazed that you would even make that argument. When you have to move the goalposts that far, you have to accept that you've lost.
    03-30-16 01:11 PM
  25. skstrials's Avatar
    I'm seriously amazed that you would even make that argument. When you have to move the goalposts that far, you have to accept that you've lost.
    No one is winning or losing here. I am just writing the facts. Try the keyboards yourself.

    It is nice not having to look down for long messages.
    03-30-16 02:53 PM
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