[donnation]

No one is winning or losing here. I am just writing the facts. Try the keyboards yourself.

It is nice not having to look down for long messages.

Maybe they should start making computer screens that go completely black when you start typing on them since it's not necessary to look at the screen ever when you are typing.

[Prem WatsApp]

Just Google smartphone neck pain. You will find plenty of articles and research done.

Here is one: http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/20/health...ety-neck-pain/

As for blind typing on a physical keyboard. It is a common sense. People use the ridges on the physical keyboards to feel each keys and type (both on a phone and computer). Don't take my word for it. Just try it yourself.

And because people choose a phone that cannot type long messages without their necks hurting from looking down when physical keyboard phones are available that can blind type, I was saying they are stupid for that reason.

Posted via CB10

That's why I usually use my smartphone while lying down for extended use... Passport is my more comfy than using the laptop for longer research sessions... :-D

�   There's a Crack in the Berry right now...   �

[Zedd88]

How, exactly, does having a physical keyboard that is a few centimeters below the screen, and situated at the same angle as the screen, differ at all from having a touch-screen keyboard in the same position? I can look at both without changing the position of my neck at all.

The difference with a computer is that the keyboard is in an entirely different ergonomic position from the screen. It's usually several inches, possibly more than a foot, away, and perpendicular to the screen. The example of the Acer Iconia is a terrible comparison, and the whole argument is absolutely ridiculous.

Yes, I agree with you that with the smartphone the distance is smaller. But you cannot deny the fact that the focus of your eyes need to be on the keyboard when typing on a VKB, then dart back up to the screen to see if what you typed/swyped is correct. The comparison is valid because even if you don't move your neck/head on the smartphone your eyes will need to shift focus a lot of times throughout the duration of typing (VKB to Screen then back to VKB then the cycle continues until you are done).

While when typing on the PKB your eyes can focus on the screen without focusing on the keyboard at all. In the end the constant shifting of the focus of your eyes can make it uncomfortable to type longer messages.

And in extreme cases, some can even type without looking at the screen. I have done this a few of times when the need arises.

[conbrio29]

I use my BlackBerry to type out restaurant reviews, long articles, and annotate my task list.

Weren't you the guy featured on the official BlackBerry blogs that gets paid to communicate and not "crush candy"?

[bb10adopter111]

I am well-known within my professional circle for writing lengthy, well-edited mails and texts from any place and at any time of the day or night. It's a reputation I earned between 2004 and 2013 on a series of BlackBerry OS devices using the PKB.

In 2013, however, my BlackBerry Bold died in late February, and I bought the Z10 because the Q10 had not yet been released. I was skeptical that I would ever like the VKB, or that I would ever be as fast and accurate as I had been on the PKB. My assumption was that I would dump the Z10 as soon as the PKB phones arrived.

However, I read all of the documentation, practiced a little, and soon found that, using the auto correct and swipe functions, I could write just as fast or faster, with excellent accuracy, than I had been able to on the PKB phones, and with less muscle fatigue.

The key area where my old BlackBerry PKB phones (with the toolbelt) were superior, however, is in editing and revising my writing. The cursor precision for text selection was much greater with the PKBs. For serious writers, editing is probably more critical that writing first drafts.

I find that I prefer the Z10 most days as a daily driver, because I spend a lot of time researching on the Web, and the screen is incredible. However, I don't edit my most critical documents on my phone quite as often as I used to. Now I'm more likely to boot up the laptop for serious writing.

But for speed and accuracy, I'm more than satisfied with the VKB.

Posted via CB10

[bb10adopter111]

Posted via CB10

[Oshasat]

Maybe they should start making computer screens that go completely black when you start typing on them since it's not necessary to look at the screen ever when you are typing.

Maybe they should make keyboards without any alphanumeric keys exclusively for touch typists...oh wait, they do: https://forums.crackberry.com/e?link...token=gWuC9Bqq Maybe it's just another way of being.

I wonder whether I should modify my original question --- I'm starting to think that the dividing line may actually be between those who can touch type and those who can't.

I type on glass when using my tablet and now that I'm using a Passport (just came off a Q10 today), I have two devices where I can ignore the row of suggested words. Moving my fingers from the keys to flick just slows me down. As a touch typist for over two decades, I've always found that these supposed 'conveniences' were more of an impediment than an assist.

Posted via CB10

[sorinv]

That's why I usually use my smartphone while lying down for extended use... Passport is my more comfy than using the laptop for longer research sessions... :-D

�   There's a Crack in the Berry right now...   �

I agree. That's why I use my laptop far less since I got the passport compared to when I had a z10 or z30 only, or only a tablet.

I prefer typing on the Passport than on my MacBook 12 inch or Linux laptop.
The MacBook keyboard often jumps lines and words.
I can't believe how bad MacOs and the MacBook 12 inch are at typing...

[sorinv]

Maybe they should make keyboards without any alphanumeric keys exclusively for touch typists...oh wait, they do: https://forums.crackberry.com/e?link...token=oFXo_3Cr Maybe it's just another way of being.

I wonder whether I should modify my original question --- I'm starting to think that the dividing line may actually be between those who can touch type and those who can't.

I type on glass when using my tablet and now that I'm using a Passport (just came off a Q10 today), I have two devices where I can ignore the row of suggested words. Moving my fingers from the keys to flick just slows me down. As a touch typist for over two decades, I've always found that these supposed 'conveniences' were more of an impediment than an assist.

Posted via CB10

If the touchless gesture control 60GHz sensors introduced by Google, Infineon and SiBeam will become very low power in the near future, the physical keyboard might be replaced by finger gestures and everybody will learn a new way of typing.

http://postscapes.com/googles-projec...iny-radar-chip

[donnation]

Maybe they should make keyboards without any alphanumeric keys exclusively for touch typists...oh wait, they do: Das Keyboard - The Ultimate Mechanical Keyboard Experience for Badasses Maybe it's just another way of being.

I wonder whether I should modify my original question --- I'm starting to think that the dividing line may actually be between those who can touch type and those who can't.

I type on glass when using my tablet and now that I'm using a Passport (just came off a Q10 today), I have two devices where I can ignore the row of suggested words. Moving my fingers from the keys to flick just slows me down. As a touch typist for over two decades, I've always found that these supposed 'conveniences' were more of an impediment than an assist.

Posted via CB10

Yeah, great idea. I'd love to see someone typing on that keyboard while also not looking at the screen. That keyboard has nothing to do with what was being discussed. I don't need to look at my keyboard while I type on a computer. I do need to look at the screen though to see what I type. Someone saying they can type long thought out messages and never look down at the screen is ridiculous.

[Elephant_Canyon]

I wonder whether I should modify my original question --- I'm starting to think that the dividing line may actually be between those who can touch type and those who can't.

That would be yet another flawed premise.

[idssteve]

Old mechanical typewriters back in my my high school typing class had blank keys and a guard shielding paper from view. "F" and "J" had little protrusions to aid tactile location.

Teacher pulled down various "window blinds" with various quotes, rhymes, etc. Looking anywhere but straight at the source document was strictly forbidden. Ah, the good ole days. Lol

Girls outnumbered boys 10:1 in that class, which was why a friend and I took the class... Lol. Met my wife there and turned out to be one of the most useful classes of high school. To this day I feel subtle pangs of guilt for sneaking peaks of what I'm typing. Gotten sloppy over the decades tho. Backspace and delete are wonderful editing tools! We weren't permitted things like white out way back.

On 9900, my left thumb frequently types entire sentences before I look... Like this one... Lol.

Not saying anyone is "better" than anyone. Only that some brains are hardwired differently. No single device can perform optimally for ALL.

[Oshasat]

(snip) Someone saying they can type long thought out messages and never look down at the screen is ridiculous.

Not on a phone, but certainly on a computer. That's what touch typing IS.


Posted via CB10

[JamesW_UK]

Yes, I generally agree. Many have already pointed out their opinion regarding productivity and it has also been a well discussed topic here already.

However, just to give you my own opinion on it as well:

First of all, let's have a look at where I think that thought comes from, that BlackBerry users are more productive. I intentionally said BlackBerry users, not pkb users, because to the general public that's the same thing: BlackBerry = PKB

BlackBerry phones have always been wide spread with business people. Long before smartphones were even a thing, companies started issuing them. It was very much a status symbol back then as mostly senior management was using them.

Even when it became more common to own a BlackBerry, it was still seen very often with business people. So somehow, people associate BlackBerry with business, and business with productivity, because that's what you (should) do at work, right?

When things changed and BlackBerry was losing customers, both BlackBerry as a company, as well as the more "determined" BlackBerry users kept clinging to the productivity reputation.

It has been an ongoing debate here whether BlackBerry users are productive. I think it's a nonsense. Are Windows users more productive than Apple users? Or maybe the other way around because there are less games on Apple?

In the end, it's about the user and not about the device. The user is the active part. A smartphone is only a tool to make certain things easier and while BlackBerry may still be very strong in email as an example, there are many shortcomings in other fields which also account for productivity.

Posted via CB10

Hi again,

First off, I had indeed missed the

BlackBerry users, not pkb users

, so apologies for that.

Otherwise, great point and post. Thanks. ;-)

Regards

JKW

[JamesW_UK]

Maybe they should start making computer screens that go completely black when you start typing on them since it's not necessary to look at the screen ever when you are typing.

Similarly, there's an option on most? Satellite Navigation devices that are or can be mounted in a vehicle, and which can be set so that if the vehicle is moving or moving at a certain speed or above, the device "blanks" the screen, or reduces it's display contents;

TomTom ONE Manual under "Turn off map display/Turn on map display"

Regards

JKW

[fkornre]

One reviewer of the Acer Iconia nailed it when he stated that typing on a glass keyboard is slower but when he asked his friends to type on it they where divided. Half where slower and half where the same speed. Those who where typing at the same speed are used to typing while their eyes are searching for the keys (in short they are used to typing while looking at the keyboard). Those who are slower are those who are used to typing without looking at the keyboard. Instead they are looking at the screen.

The same thing applies to phones. With VKB you need to look at the keyboard while you tap/swipe. With PKB you don't need to and instead you can look at the screen similar to when typing in the laptop.

PKBs are built for a specific reason. And that's typing. Again, that doesn't mean you can't type long messages on a VKB but it would take more effort.

For me and my typing ability this is perfectly stated.

[idssteve]

For me, PKB's are most useful when typing single letter "messages" called shortcuts & speed dials.

[Zedd88]

Not on a phone, but certainly on a computer. That's what touch typing IS.
Posted via CB10

Back in late 2014, in another PKB versus VKB thread, I was also skeptical of touch typing on a phone. At that time I just bought my Passport and I thought to myself, typing without looking is impossible.

Now, I can type without looking at the phone's keyboard. I can type a sentence without looking at my phone then glance down for the punctuation. Then type the next sentence again without looking. I do this only on certain situations like when I am in a meeting and I need to send out an urgent message. Although, I have never owned a for row PKB, now I kind of realize why most want the fourth row. I need to glance down for the punctuation because the Passport's punctuation are on the fourth row VKB.

At any rate, all of these discussions may soon become moot as eventually there may be no more PKB phones in the market.

[CBluver876]

I prefer PKB as this form better accommodates my typing style... While I typically am 'long winded' in comparison to those I message (I am one of the very few in my social circle who chooses to use a PKB) I cannot say with full certainty that I produce more content simply due to my PKB... In conversation I typically have more content to add than my peers... I do not attribute this to my keyboard, however, but instead to my personality type... (I find myself more meticulous and detailed in conversation than most.) I have seen many bloggers, authors, journalists and the likes produce content that is abundant in text using iphones, androids and windows mobile... What it comes down to is personal preference and individual style... While I type more on a device with a PKB as opposed to when I use a device yielding only VKB, I realize this is due primarily to what I prefer, what I'm most comfortable using and what I've grown accustom to... I acknowledge that others who use a VKB could very well be as verbose as I am while using my PKB... Fact remains, some people have many things to say, others not so much... I don't believe the keyboard makes a difference as long as one is using the keyboard best suited for them.

Posted via CB10

Agreed!!!

...so which one of you fine gentlemen would like to get me a ... Priv

[Taigatrommel]

I *need* a PKB to dish out longer texts, no matter be it forum posts, comments, mails or maybe blog posts.
It's not only a matter of secure typing: I immediatley know I made a typo and can easily replace it, my autocorrect functions are disabled because I don't need them: The PKB makes me input a text not only fast but also with just a few to none errors. The most important thing however is "feeling" the text I am typing, I can concentrate on the stuff I want to bring down to the digital paper rather than concentrating getting the input right. Being able to feel the keys, hear the feedback and again especially feeling the feedback with my fingertips is actually one of the most important aspects of a physical keyboard.

The VKB on the other hand, is in my opinion a huge abomination which took over for reasons I most likely won't ever understand. It might sound ugly, but I'd go so far and say having to input a text on the screen is like having a typing diarrhea:
It's fast and messy, I just want it to be over with and even when I am finished, I need to clean up the mess :x
Typing on the flat glass feels soulless, I can't feel which "key" I am hitting - simply because there are no keys. The lousy vibration motor and "click clack" sounds to imitate any sort of feedback is a pure joke. It hardly improves the typing experience at all. I have to concentrate a lot more of getting the spelling and words right, rather than getting my message right. It just makes me want to finish the input as fast as possible.

Of course I do have to admit the VKB concept has some positive aspects: You can easily change the keyboard layout and language, you can even install some weird keyboard apps with fancy and crazy layouts and typing concepts. The are less prone to break down, since there are no keys - just the actual touchscreen. Last but not least, maybe the most important aspect which made them popular, you can hide them away and get the full screen estate and they don't add any weight or bulk.


Last but not least I actually hate the modern day communication of typed input: People became lazy, there is barely any spellchecking at all, you get cryptical messages because the autocorrect screwed things up. But why it screwed up the text? Because the average VKB user is too lazy getting things right, he uses the "spray and pray!" method, just running their thumbs across the glass slab and hope the software makes up for their carelessnes. They don't even want to communicate, if somebody is too lazy inputting the content right, for me it just shows he doesn't want to bother communicating with me. Plain and simple. Maybe they are concentrating on their actual message rather than their input, but then again they don't get their message out the right way. Maybe they would if they'd give a physical keyboard a try.

When confronting them with the poor stuff I received, they again start to either blame the autocorrection, they blame the (none existing) keyboard and throw out a long line of emojis, not to apologize but to sympathize: Everybody is cursed with poor software, poor keyboards, it's always the tool of course, never the user. So some funny faces make up for the user fault.
I might sound grumpy, but as a matter of fact the few people I text with who still are using (mostly BlackBerry) devices with physical keyboards throw out better messages, virtually no errors and I never receive a cryptic, weird message because the autocorrect couldn't compensate enough, it didn't need to, the original input was spot on. Case closed.

[Oshasat]

I *need* a PKB to dish out longer texts, no matter be it forum posts, comments, mails or maybe blog posts.
It's not only a matter of secure typing: I immediatley know I made a typo and can easily replace it, my autocorrect functions are disabled because I don't need them: The PKB makes me input a text not only fast but also with just a few to none errors. The most important thing however is "feeling" the text I am typing, I can concentrate on the stuff I want to bring down to the digital paper rather than concentrating getting the input right. Being able to feel the keys, hear the feedback and again especially feeling the feedback with my fingertips is actually one of the most important aspects of a physical keyboard.

The VKB on the other hand, is in my opinion a huge abomination which took over for reasons I most likely won't ever understand. It might sound ugly, but I'd go so far and say having to input a text on the screen is like having a typing diarrhea:
It's fast and messy, I just want it to be over with and even when I am finished, I need to clean up the mess :x
Typing on the flat glass feels soulless, I can't feel which "key" I am hitting - simply because there are no keys. The lousy vibration motor and "click clack" sounds to imitate any sort of feedback is a pure joke. It hardly improves the typing experience at all. I have to concentrate a lot more of getting the spelling and words right, rather than getting my message right. It just makes me want to finish the input as fast as possible.

Of course I do have to admit the VKB concept has some positive aspects: You can easily change the keyboard layout and language, you can even install some weird keyboard apps with fancy and crazy layouts and typing concepts. The are less prone to break down, since there are no keys - just the actual touchscreen. Last but not least, maybe the most important aspect which made them popular, you can hide them away and get the full screen estate and they don't add any weight or bulk.


Last but not least I actually hate the modern day communication of typed input: People became lazy, there is barely any spellchecking at all, you get cryptical messages because the autocorrect screwed things up. But why it screwed up the text? Because the average VKB user is too lazy getting things right, he uses the "spray and pray!" method, just running their thumbs across the glass slab and hope the software makes up for their carelessnes. They don't even want to communicate, if somebody is too lazy inputting the content right, for me it just shows he doesn't want to bother communicating with me. Plain and simple. Maybe they are concentrating on their actual message rather than their input, but then again they don't get their message out the right way. Maybe they would if they'd give a physical keyboard a try.

When confronting them with the poor stuff I received, they again start to either blame the autocorrection, they blame the (none existing) keyboard and throw out a long line of emojis, not to apologize but to sympathize: Everybody is cursed with poor software, poor keyboards, it's always the tool of course, never the user. So some funny faces make up for the user fault.
I might sound grumpy, but as a matter of fact the few people I text with who still are using (mostly BlackBerry) devices with physical keyboards throw out better messages, virtually no errors and I never receive a cryptic, weird message because the autocorrect couldn't compensate enough, it didn't need to, the original input was spot on. Case closed.

I'd like to reply with a longer message, but I'm in such complete agreement with you that there's no need to add anything more.

Posted via CB10

[skstrials]

I *need* a PKB to dish out longer texts, no matter be it forum posts, comments, mails or maybe blog posts.
It's not only a matter of secure typing: I immediatley know I made a typo and can easily replace it, my autocorrect functions are disabled because I don't need them: The PKB makes me input a text not only fast but also with just a few to none errors. The most important thing however is "feeling" the text I am typing, I can concentrate on the stuff I want to bring down to the digital paper rather than concentrating getting the input right. Being able to feel the keys, hear the feedback and again especially feeling the feedback with my fingertips is actually one of the most important aspects of a physical keyboard.

The VKB on the other hand, is in my opinion a huge abomination which took over for reasons I most likely won't ever understand. It might sound ugly, but I'd go so far and say having to input a text on the screen is like having a typing diarrhea:
It's fast and messy, I just want it to be over with and even when I am finished, I need to clean up the mess :x
Typing on the flat glass feels soulless, I can't feel which "key" I am hitting - simply because there are no keys. The lousy vibration motor and "click clack" sounds to imitate any sort of feedback is a pure joke. It hardly improves the typing experience at all. I have to concentrate a lot more of getting the spelling and words right, rather than getting my message right. It just makes me want to finish the input as fast as possible.

Of course I do have to admit the VKB concept has some positive aspects: You can easily change the keyboard layout and language, you can even install some weird keyboard apps with fancy and crazy layouts and typing concepts. The are less prone to break down, since there are no keys - just the actual touchscreen. Last but not least, maybe the most important aspect which made them popular, you can hide them away and get the full screen estate and they don't add any weight or bulk.


Last but not least I actually hate the modern day communication of typed input: People became lazy, there is barely any spellchecking at all, you get cryptical messages because the autocorrect screwed things up. But why it screwed up the text? Because the average VKB user is too lazy getting things right, he uses the "spray and pray!" method, just running their thumbs across the glass slab and hope the software makes up for their carelessnes. They don't even want to communicate, if somebody is too lazy inputting the content right, for me it just shows he doesn't want to bother communicating with me. Plain and simple. Maybe they are concentrating on their actual message rather than their input, but then again they don't get their message out the right way. Maybe they would if they'd give a physical keyboard a try.

When confronting them with the poor stuff I received, they again start to either blame the autocorrection, they blame the (none existing) keyboard and throw out a long line of emojis, not to apologize but to sympathize: Everybody is cursed with poor software, poor keyboards, it's always the tool of course, never the user. So some funny faces make up for the user fault.
I might sound grumpy, but as a matter of fact the few people I text with who still are using (mostly BlackBerry) devices with physical keyboards throw out better messages, virtually no errors and I never receive a cryptic, weird message because the autocorrect couldn't compensate enough, it didn't need to, the original input was spot on. Case closed.

Wow. You covered all the points really.

It is true that pkb keyboard phones are more likely to malfunction which is why I am on my Leap currently, waiting on a Q10 keyboard.

My only advice is to people looking for pkb phones is that you should be ready to work on the phone change the keyboard or have a second spare phone ready just in case the pkb malfunctions.

Posted via CB10

[sorinv]

I have only had two PKB phones, a BBOS one from 2008 to 2013 and the passport from October 2014. In-between I had a z10 and a z30. I still have the z30 but almost never use it. It's just a backup.
I have never had any single typing malfunction with any of my PKB phones in about 7 years of continuous and heavy usage.

[anon(9721108)]

I definately do. After 2 years with an iphone you can type pretty fast on glass but auto-correct saves about 50% of the words from errors. An iphone 5C keyboard is pretty narrow if you got man thumbs.

But the PKB on the 9900 is wide and gives you a lot of room to work on. Thats why I went back to Blackberry, also the feedback you get when typing.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

[conbrio29]

Yes, people on physical keyboards definitely write more as I keep coming back to this thread just to repost and rewrite; because it feels so good to type. Not only that, but look: I can add so much punctuation ("that's right!") on the fly, that proper sentence composure, complete with symbols and punctuation, is very convenient for me to do on my Classic. I can add any symbol easily, I can write in CAPS easily: there's so much free access to writing in "free flow" mode; words just come out onto "paper" unimpeded by fumbling with a virtual keyboard touchscreen interface.