12-07-08 03:34 PM
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  1. StrictlyTopSecret's Avatar
    Good morning!

    I am so pleased to have found this forum filled with those so knowledgeable about blackberry devices.

    I am very seriously considering purchasing a BB Storm when they are released. My decision, however, hinges on the answer to the following question.

    Is it possible for the end user to purposefully and permanently disable the GPS feature? If so, how would an end user (i.e., myself) go about disabling the GPS without otherwise effecting the functionality of the device?

    Thank you in advance for your expertise,
    ~STS~
    Last edited by StrictlyTopSecret; 10-03-08 at 09:09 AM.
    10-03-08 09:04 AM
  2. jenaywins's Avatar
    Welcome to CB. You are in luck - Verizon disables GPS functionality on this device to begin with. You will need to subscribe to VZNav for all GPS services.
    10-03-08 09:10 AM
  3. StrictlyTopSecret's Avatar
    Welcome to CB. You are in luck - Verizon disables GPS functionality on this device to begin with. You will need to subscribe to VZNav for all GPS services.
    Outstanding!

    Thank you so much for the information.

    Appreciatively,
    ~STS~
    10-03-08 09:12 AM
  4. jenaywins's Avatar
    Not a problem, glad to help.
    10-03-08 09:13 AM
  5. s4bill's Avatar
    I thought that verizon will be opening up the gps to third party apps with the storm.

    Am I misinformed?
    10-03-08 09:29 AM
  6. jenaywins's Avatar
    Verizon has always blocked GPS on all its Blackberry devices. Again, without subscribing to VZNav, this is a no go. This is all to the best of my knowledge.
    10-03-08 09:30 AM
  7. briankeith513's Avatar
    Verizon has always blocked GPS on all its Blackberry devices. Again, without subscribing to VZNav, this is a no go. This is all to the best of my knowledge.
    The VZW internal documents posted on Crackberry.com, Engadgetmobile.com, etc, show Standalone GPS and Blackberry Maps included. This is not the case with ANY of VZW's other devices, so the Storm sounds like it will have GPS unlocked. However, AGPS will only be for VZ Navigator.
    10-03-08 09:38 AM
  8. jenaywins's Avatar
    The VZW internal documents posted on Crackberry.com, Engadgetmobile.com, etc, show Standalone GPS and Blackberry Maps included. This is not the case with ANY of VZW's other devices, so the Storm sounds like it will have GPS unlocked. However, AGPS will only be for VZ Navigator.
    You are correct. However, I still would put money on the fact that when the device is actually released, Verizon will have disabled GPS in an attempt to garner an extra $10/month from its subscribers. Just my thoughts.
    10-03-08 09:39 AM
  9. StrictlyTopSecret's Avatar
    Is it the case, then, that the GPS functionality is still there (regardless of whether or not one chooses to purchase VZNav)? In other words, were I to purchase a Storm, use it on a Verizon network without VZNav, would it still be possible to generally determine (say within several miles) the physical location from which I placed a call?

    Can an end user purchase a Storm which is NOT equipped with the GPS function at all?
    Last edited by StrictlyTopSecret; 10-03-08 at 09:42 AM.
    10-03-08 09:39 AM
  10. jenaywins's Avatar
    Is it the case, then, that the GPS functionality is still there (regardless of whether or not one chooses to purchase VZNav)? In other words, were I to purchase a Storm, use it on a Verizon network without VZNav, would it still be possible to generally determine (say within several miles) the physical location from which I placed a call?
    Well, I would assume that as far as, let's say, 911 calls are concerned, the functionality will still be there. In fact, if you are looking to completely disable GPS all around, even for emergency calls, I don't think this is possible. Perhaps I misread your initial post. I'm pretty sure that it is a law that GPS for the purpose of determining location in an emergency situation must be present on all phones.
    10-03-08 09:42 AM
  11. briankeith513's Avatar
    You are correct. However, I still would put money on the fact that when the device is actually released, Verizon will have disabled GPS in an attempt to garner an extra $10/month from its subscribers. Just my thoughts.
    LOL, I hear you, however, the "AGPS" is locked to VZ Navigator, so they still do have it sort of locked. The "Standalone GPS" would be used for things such as geotagging, google maps, and blackberry maps. So one would still be able to get their location/coordinates.
    10-03-08 09:44 AM
  12. jenaywins's Avatar
    LOL, I hear you, however, the "AGPS" is locked to VZ Navigator, so they still do have it sort of locked. The "Standalone GPS" would be used for things such as geotagging, google maps, and blackberry maps. So one would still be able to get their location/coordinates.
    Ok - now we are for sure on the same page.
    10-03-08 09:47 AM
  13. StrictlyTopSecret's Avatar
    ...if you are looking to completely disable GPS all around, even for emergency calls, I don't think this is possible. ...I'm pretty sure that it is a law that GPS for the purpose of determining location in an emergency situation must be present on all phones.
    Yes, actually, that is precisely my goal (i.e., to eliminate the possibility of geographically locating any call, 911 or otherwise, from the device).

    I would be very interested in learning more about any legal issues pertaining to the requirement of GPS traceability of communications via cell phones.

    Could someone please point me in the right direction?

    Again, thanks so much for your help.

    ~STS~
    10-03-08 09:51 AM
  14. jenaywins's Avatar
    Yes, actually, that is precisely my goal (i.e., to eliminate the possibility geographically locating any call, 911 or otherwise, from the device).

    I would be very interested in learning more about any legal issues pertaining to the requirement of GPS traceability of communications via cell phones.

    Could someone please point me in the right direction?

    Again, thanks so much for your help.

    ~STS~
    I'm going to make a really bold statement here, so correct me if I am wrong: This cannot be done. To me, it stands to reason that this is impossible based on the need for emergency personelle to be able to find you in case of a problem. Have you tried a google search on this? I understand that isn't the most scientific route, however I feel it's your best bet.

    At any rate, legally all cell phones must have GPS function to the point of having your location determined by emergency personelle. I think this goes hand in hand with the fact that all devices, even those not currently in service, must be able to dial out to 911.
    10-03-08 09:54 AM
  15. StrictlyTopSecret's Avatar
    Looks like the E911 laws might vary from state-to-state.

    See: hXXp://www.redskytech.com/e911_Center/legislation_policy/

    Edit:

    Update: I think I've found the info I needed here:

    hXXp://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/July-August-2003/feature_koerner_julaug03.msp

    Thanks again to all who responded.

    ~STS~
    Last edited by StrictlyTopSecret; 10-03-08 at 10:16 AM.
    10-03-08 09:59 AM
  16. Shooperman's Avatar
    Even if you could physically disable the E911 GPS, couldn't they just find out which cell towers your call went through and find your general location that way? Granted they would probably need a court order to do so, but it could be done...
    10-03-08 10:50 AM
  17. jenaywins's Avatar
    Even if you could physically disable the E911 GPS, couldn't they just find out which cell towers your call went through and find your general location that way? Granted they would probably need a court order to do so, but it could be done...
    Cell tower triangulations offer a location to the nearest x amount of meters and is not an approximate way of determing where exactly someone is.
    10-03-08 10:52 AM
  18. X_PAIN's Avatar
    has anybody thought to ask this person why you would not want someone to find you? is he the one that's been hiding saddam"s WMDs??? hahaha
    10-03-08 11:05 AM
  19. jenaywins's Avatar
    has anybody thought to ask this person why you would not want someone to find you? is he the one that's been hiding saddam"s WMDs??? hahaha
    Lol. I thought of this myself, however I figured it was none of my beeswax.
    10-03-08 11:08 AM
  20. Shooperman's Avatar
    Cell tower triangulations offer a location to the nearest x amount of meters and is not an approximate way of determing where exactly someone is.
    Correct, but he was asking within several miles. Google Maps can find me within +/- 1500 meters.
    In other words, were I to purchase a Storm, use it on a Verizon network without VZNav, would it still be possible to generally determine (say within several miles) the physical location from which I placed a call?
    10-03-08 11:08 AM
  21. StrictlyTopSecret's Avatar
    ...why you would not want someone to find you? ...
    Why would one voluntarily sacrifice their Constitutionally protected right to privacy by providing fully traceable, step-by-step location data to Verizon and/or any organizations/businesses/governmental entities who care to purchase (or subpoena) that information from Verizon?

    ~STS~
    10-03-08 11:25 AM
  22. X_PAIN's Avatar
    Lol. I thought of this myself, however I figured it was none of my beeswax.
    im just saying His name coupled with the fact that he is adament about not being able to be located makes my curiousity spike.
    10-03-08 11:32 AM
  23. X_PAIN's Avatar
    Why would one voluntarily sacrifice their Constitutionally protected right to privacy by providing fully traceable, step-by-step location data to Verizon and/or any organizations/businesses/governmental entities who care to purchase (or subpoena) that information from Verizon?

    ~STS~
    i never said i was disagreeing with you. i was just putting out there what i know everyone else was thinking. don't know where you're from but here back on earth this is what we called a joke. no need to get your conspiracy theories in a bunch...
    10-03-08 11:36 AM
  24. Accidental Post's Avatar
    Well as it goes with GPS it is always on due to E911 laws. Although jenay makes a good point VZW does cripple the GPS for use only with VZ Nav. But it still allows 911 operators to "see" where you are in case of emergency.
    10-03-08 11:43 AM
  25. X_PAIN's Avatar
    Why would one voluntarily sacrifice their Constitutionally protected right to privacy by providing fully traceable, step-by-step location data to Verizon and/or any organizations/businesses/governmental entities who care to purchase (or subpoena) that information from Verizon?

    ~STS~
    oh and just in case you didnt know, gps is not going to keep those "entities" you speak of from finding you. we have satellites that can see the hair on an ants *** from space. do you really think that "THEY" wouldn't be able to find you? and what makes you think that your phone would not have a universal remote code to turn your GPS on? technology is crazy now nothing we can do to keep ourselves private anymore. unless you were to live in a cave or completely wooded area with no electronics of any kind.
    10-03-08 11:44 AM
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