02-22-16 07:55 PM
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  1. hanexs's Avatar
    I just read about supporting BB7 indefintely, and it makes me wonder, why did BB need to change OS's at all? I mean, there are a lot of things I like about bb10, but when I look at my 9900, I don't really see why they couldnt have modified the OS instead of creating a whole new one and burning a whole 2-3 years doing so.

    For those of you that know a bit more of what would be involved, would it have been easier to:

    introduce the peek and flow concepts to BBOS,
    make BBOS crash less
    and upgrade the ram and cpu to work at an acceptable speed?

    I love BB10, but when I loook at my 9900, I think all it needed was a LOT more speed (ram and cpu), some more stability, a non crappy camera, and a lot more apps. How hard would it have been for them to do this instead of building a whole new os?

    Or did they really just hit a wall with the OS and they couldnt improve it anymore? It seems unfortunate for BB to have two OS's to support.
    01-04-14 10:50 AM
  2. kbz1960's Avatar
    My opinion, yes. The general world opinion, yes. BBRY's opinion, yes or they would not have.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    01-04-14 10:54 AM
  3. hanexs's Avatar
    The question though isn't "is BB10 better" or "teh future" or all that. I am just wondering, if they could have done all the improvements in BB10 and applied them to BBOs? Could they have introduced the new GUI, better hardware, android emulation, and... is there anything else?
    01-04-14 10:59 AM
  4. propeller10's Avatar
    The question though isn't "is BB10 better" or "teh future" or all that. I am just wondering, if they could have done all the improvements in BB10 and applied them to BBOs? Could they have introduced the new GUI, better hardware, android emulation, and... is there anything else?
    That's a fair question. I am not sure but it is possible that deep down BBOS couldn't perform like other smartphone OSes since it wasn't designed with the modern smartphone in mind. And therefore they had to release BB10 to compete with ios and Android.
    01-04-14 11:29 AM
  5. kbz1960's Avatar
    I believe BBOS was pushed to its limit. The java OS is prone to stalls and losing memory and lacking in ability. It just isn't capable of some things.
    01-04-14 11:33 AM
  6. m1kr0's Avatar
    Also remember that at the time when BlackBerry made the decision to go for OS10 the company was bleeding money and dying fast. A radical shift was needed because it was clear that the OS and legacy devices was not going to save them. I'm in no way implying that OS10 is the knight in armour either. Despite running legacy and the new OS, they are still bleeding market share.

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 and igor10000 like this.
    01-04-14 11:49 AM
  7. BBPandy's Avatar
    If you read about why the BlackBerry storm had a click screen, it was apparently because the OS was never built with this in mind. A lot of the modern changes took a lot of work to enable in BBOS because the OS was already pushed to it's limits. This of course delayed things and annoyed people, giving BlackBerry their current reputation of not meeting deadlines.

    BBOS was a great OS but it needed to be replaced, and should have been replaced even sooner than it was.

    Posted via CB10
    01-04-14 11:59 AM
  8. lnichols's Avatar
    Every change of the BBOS software requires retesting of the entire OS to get the security certifications, BB10 only requires retesting if the QNX kernel version or crypto kernel version changes. Also the security certifications are not tied to specific hardware with BB10 like they were with BBOS. So with BB10 you get a much quicker and better way to get secure devices to your customers that value it.

    BBOS was based on Java, so licensing to Oracle for every unit for that, they own QNX outright.

    QNX will allow them to grow much further than they could with BBOS.

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960, collinc93, DJM626 and 6 others like this.
    01-04-14 12:00 PM
  9. habicht's Avatar
    YES - a new OS was needed! Legacy OS is great, but has it's limits. QNX is the way to go. A lot of things like Wifi, NFC, Mulitcore CPU, GPU, sensors, multiple screens, USB OTG, BT 4.0, FlashPlayer... are already supported since release and things like Android Player are getting better and better.

    BlackBerry needs a OS that is built for the next 15 years and not something that was built for the last 15 years!
    01-04-14 12:05 PM
  10. f1mx's Avatar
    The storm is enough proof for me that the new OS was needed

    Posted via CB10
    app_Developer likes this.
    01-04-14 12:08 PM
  11. just_luc's Avatar
    ...make BBOS crash less...
    That's fantastic.. why didn't they think of that?

    I mean it's not like it crashed and froze because it was pushed to the peak of its capability or anything. They just forgot to program it to crash less!

    Man.. if only they had thought of telling it not to do crash millions could have been saved!






    Sorry OP.. I had to.. lmao



    Posted via CB10
    01-04-14 12:23 PM
  12. SC457's Avatar
    BB10 was introduced to get true 4G LTE speeds, BBOS on BIS/BES wasn't capable of that. I missed some features of BBOS when my Q10 was on 10.1, after upgrading to 10.2 there is no going back as it adds some of the missing BBOS features like email text wrap. 10.2.1 makes BB10's super phones from what I hear.
    01-04-14 12:28 PM
  13. donmateo's Avatar
    I just read about supporting BB7 indefintely
    Support does not mean produce. It's amazing how many people don't grasp that here.
    01-04-14 12:28 PM
  14. just_luc's Avatar
    Support does not mean produce. It's amazing how many people don't grasp that here.
    Correct. All that means is they aren't going to kill of the BIS servers as long as there's a quantity of people still using them.

    Posted via CB10
    01-04-14 12:29 PM
  15. gnirkatto's Avatar
    I think the main issue was/is that it took more than a year from OS10 release until the (yet to be released) v 10.2.1.xxxx to make OS10 become as powerful as BBOS was in certain areas, like e.g. actionable lock screen information, homescreen speed dialling, better email formatting, headless apps etc.
    20.2.1.xxxx might be the first OS10 release that fully pleases legacy users, and that might make them consider a change, and that might even convince former legacy users to consider to re-join BB.
    I hope that not too many users got lost forever, while BB did not have an entirely convincing product to offer.
    01-04-14 01:02 PM
  16. skibnik's Avatar
    Yes they did and it should have been released two years earlier!
    01-04-14 01:08 PM
  17. LostOnThePianoRoll's Avatar
    I strongly believe in 10.2.1! When it's officially released and capable of running "all or close to all" android apps... I could sell it to dozens of people myself just by showing it off...
    I'm completely sure of that... with a quick demo of the os features (peak, hub) and another demo of their favorite android app running flawlessly, and you have a customer..

    Posted via CB10 on my Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.1055
    01-04-14 01:18 PM
  18. serbanescu's Avatar
    I am not in any way a BBOS specialist, but I read that legacy BBOS wasn't capable of using multi-core processors. BBOS was (and still is in some respects) reacher in features than BB10, but those features were added to an OS that was not designed at first to support them.

    My hypothesis (based on my experience as an app developer) is that whith each added feature legacy BBOS code became more complicated, harder to maintain and prone to errors. I suspect that legacy BBOS improvements were based more on workarounds than on the natural development of a nucleus designed to support from the start the multi-touch interface and other modern mobile OS features.

    So, to answer the question: they really needed a new OS.

    They made a mistake not in building a new OS, but in deciding to let a totally new team to build BB10. In doing so, they lost much of the precious knowledge that the "old" team had about users' needs and what features really matter for BlackBerry faithful.


    --------------------

    Pic Tagger for BB10 and PlayBook
    Last edited by serbanescu; 01-06-14 at 12:56 PM.
    01-04-14 02:12 PM
  19. JMDBERRY's Avatar
    Yes! A new and more robust OS was needed. Reason why,...the OS7 and older BB OSs couldn't perform against newer,..updated Android OSs or iOS. RIM/Blackberry needed newer, better OS as well as better devices. They just ran out of time getting everything to market,...mho!
    01-04-14 02:25 PM
  20. SparkyBC's Avatar
    Os7 is old outdated and it was built on a platform never designed for mobile. They absolutely needed a new os.
    DJM626 and ColdStoneGuards like this.
    01-04-14 02:28 PM
  21. kbz1960's Avatar
    The storm is enough proof for me that the new OS was needed

    Posted via CB10
    Well there is the torch series. I have a 9850. While not a bad phone I do get stalls when scrolling things and see the clock and all that stuff that goes along with BBOS. It isn't constant or all the time but happens enough.
    01-04-14 02:33 PM
  22. jpvj's Avatar
    I am not in any way a BBOS specialist, but I read that legacy BBOS wasn't capable of using multi-core processors. BBOS was (and still is in some respects) reacher in features than BB10, but those features were added to an OS that was not designed at first to support them.

    My hypothesis (based on my experience as an app developer) is that whith each added feature legacy BBOS code became more complicated, harder to maintain and prone to errors. I suspect that legacy BBOS improvements were based more on workarounds than on the natural development of a nucleus designed to support from the start the multi-touch interface.

    So, to answer the question: they really needed a new OS.
    So true. It would never have made it to a multicore platform.

    I have *heard* they loast control of the BB OS because it was pushed beoynd it's limits as well as too many people over time was involved (including interms).



    They made a mistake not in building a new OS, but in deciding to let a totally new team to build BB10. In doing so, they lost much of the precious knowledge that the "old" team had about users' needs and what features really matter for BlackBerry faithful.
    They also did not bring over too much. It's just SO difficult to make a new OS, include "excactly what every user finds great", not port the bugs and at the same time introduce it as "The OS for the next decade".

    IMHO they were 3 years late. They waited far too long to see what Apple and soon Google did was amazing. I have heard Apple spent 7 years before relesing iPhone 1 (without prior experience).

    The QNX aqusition led to the PlayBook and after 3 years to BB10. QNX might be fantastic, but BB 10 is a huge "monster". I don't think they had any time to optimize either performance or memory usage until 10.2 (10.1 was mainly bugfixes).

    With the latest announcement from Mr. Chen, BlackBerry now focuses on Enterprise, Security and Services. BB OS 10 is nescessary (security) by at the same time draining BlackBerry for cash. I don't really see the future for BlackBerry as a handset maker: They will have a hard time funding the future development of BB OS 10 and future handsets, so unless they show some "QNX magic" (=something unique) they will have a hard time attracting users (both consumers/prosumers/business users).

    The consumerization wave has forced the security level to be lowered which again has removed the need for "secure" solutions such as BlackBerry devices. Now BlackBerry have to compete with any iOS/Android/WP EAS device.

    IMHO BlackBerry should have flooded the market with very attractive BB10 upgrades (e.g. $49 for Q5 / $99 for Z10 / $149 for Q10) for swapping any old BB device. The money would have been spend much better than writing down the inventory and still struggle with the negativity in the press.

    So to summarize: Technically BB OS 10 was definitively needed. The commercial execution was awfull.
    johnnyuk likes this.
    01-04-14 02:42 PM
  23. Rohit_K's Avatar
    That's fantastic.. why didn't they think of that?

    I mean it's not like it crashed and froze because it was pushed to the peak of its capability or anything. They just forgot to program it to crash less!

    Man.. if only they had thought of telling it not to do crash millions could have been saved!






    Sorry OP.. I had to.. lmao



    Posted via CB10

    Don't be a Douc** ... the bloke is genuinely curious
    anand_ma likes this.
    01-04-14 03:41 PM
  24. vVick3d's Avatar
    I just read about supporting BB7 indefintely, and it makes me wonder, why did BB need to change OS's at all? I mean, there are a lot of things I like about bb10, but when I look at my 9900, I don't really see why they couldnt have modified the OS instead of creating a whole new one and burning a whole 2-3 years doing so.

    For those of you that know a bit more of what would be involved, would it have been easier to:

    introduce the peek and flow concepts to BBOS,
    make BBOS crash less
    and upgrade the ram and cpu to work at an acceptable speed?

    I love BB10, but when I loook at my 9900, I think all it needed was a LOT more speed (ram and cpu), some more stability, a non crappy camera, and a lot more apps. How hard would it have been for them to do this instead of building a whole new os?

    Or did they really just hit a wall with the OS and they couldnt improve it anymore? It seems unfortunate for BB to have two OS's to support.
    You know how you had to restart your phone after installing apps, yeah that was something that came with using the old BBOS and could not be changed. So if you want more apps and to install them without hassle (crucial for any smartphone) then yes they definitely needed a new OS. Just one of the many major points to why BBOS needed replacement.
    01-04-14 04:26 PM
  25. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Also remember that at the time when BlackBerry made the decision to go for OS10 the company was bleeding money and dying fast. A radical shift was needed because it was clear that the OS and legacy devices was not going to save them. I'm in no way implying that OS10 is the knight in armour either. Despite running legacy and the new OS, they are still bleeding market share.

    Posted via CB10
    I disagree, they bought QNX in 2010, at that time they were still making decent profits from BBOS.
    01-04-14 04:46 PM
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