[lnichols]

Well, enterprises can be and probably are Luddites too

Yes the bigger they are, the slower they are to change, but change was coming. You see smaller businesses fleeing from BBOS devices to Apple and Google. Medical fleeing to iOS in droves. Why? Apps. Feature rich apps that BBOS simply wasn't designed to handle, and the coding of compared to the competition was much more difficult because of the limitations of the OS. FIPS is the only thing that has kept BlackBerry's US Government base with BBOS, not the features of BBOS.

Posted via CB10

[extisis]

Does it matter? If it's not there it's not there. There a re plenty BB own apps that didn't make it to BB10 like BB News and Social Feeds, other made it but are badly crippled like BB Protect.

Just a few examples why Legacy users are skipping BB10.

it matters, sure, because you guys are blaming BlackBerry for it. Those other apps were made by BBRY so go ahead and blame them for not bringing them to BB10. Legacy users will skip BB10 (their loss) and end up using and old Treo or something. Doesn't bother me. The rest of us are moving on.

[belfastdispatcher]

it matters, sure, because you guys are blaming BlackBerry for it. Those other apps were made by BBRY so go ahead and blame them for not bringing them to BB10. Legacy users will skip BB10 (their loss) and end up using and old Treo or something. Doesn't bother me. The rest of us are moving on.

Rest of you who? 1 million a quarter?

[extisis]

Rest of you who? 1 million a quarter?

everyone else bub. seems like you're trying to make the existing BBOS user base some VIP club or something. chuckle.

[belfastdispatcher]

everyone else bub. seems like you're trying to make the existing BBOS user base some VIP club or something. chuckle.

I'm not sure if I can make any sense out of that.

[hanexs]

extsis -- that's... the only reason you're not pumped to get a Q10? Typically it's used in your hands... would like to know more why you would want to use it contrarily?

Well, in September my 9900 died from water damage. I was excited to get a q10, like checking crackberry every single day excited. I Still drool when I see the q10. But it did not have something similar to SOTI pocket manager at the time, and I use it a lot, when I get a text I don't want people at my work seeing me on my phone. Even right now I am at work with a couple monitors and a little Blackberry window on my desktop from the SOTI app. At the time, they had made their app for BBOS, Iphone and android, but no BB10 yet. Android and IPhone have hundreds of similar apps, bb10 had none. And with all the hoopla from blackberry looking to sell the company thought to myself it was a crappy time to make a 3 year commitment to bb10, or android for that matter, I wasn't sure of either. Is there a VNC, file transfer, wireless type app for BB10 yet? I know android has some amazing ones that let you manage every bit of your phone from anywhere. In the end its not that it's a dealbreaker, its just that I wasn't sure BB10 or android, still not sure, and this was one more reason to go android, even though I particularly don't like android.

This is a pretty useful window to have in the corner of your desktop.

In the end I bought a used 9900 used for 100 dollars. So I have a while longer to make my decision and I still like my 9900, its just a little slow, and crashes now and then, and it has a crappy camera without autofocus. Thanks a lot RIM for making your flagship of BBOS and putting a crappy camera in it, oh and thanks for putting crappy camera in the q10 as well.

I am also considering that I may just not need a keyboard and going with a windows or android, other people seem to do fine without a keyboard, maybe I will too. Until I make the decision my 9900 lives on

[mkelley65]

Anything can benefit from more RAM. I don't believe BBOS couldn't take advantage of more RAM, what are you basing this on?

32bit Desktop OS can only address 4GB of ram. There are limits.

The Dark Side of BlackBerry OS and Why it Had to Go - N4BB

[belfastdispatcher]

32bit Desktop OS can only address 4GB of ram. There are limits.

The Dark Side of BlackBerry OS and Why it Had to Go - N4BB

This paragraph says it all, nothing to do with the OS, it's lack of hardware:

"You see, BlackBerry OS runs its apps and OS from only 768 Mb of system memory and has no other RAM for the applications to run in, as on other smartphone platforms or computers. They run where they are installed. This can be beneficial for security reasons. Plus, you can run as many apps simultaneously as you have installed. Every app will just pop open, no matter how many apps are running. The device memory, on the other hand, is where you keep your files and other documents you�ve saved to your BlackBerry. This is in the gigabyte range on BlackBerry 7 phones, and isn�t something that affects the performance at all."

[extisis]

I'm not sure if I can make any sense out of that.

that's quite alright, it's for progressive thinkers.

[hanexs]

that's quite alright, it's for progressive thinkers.

Its quite laughable that you are portraying BB10 as the progressive and modern operating system. The entire world has considered it, and seems to disagree.

The people who skipped BB10, include people who moved on or soon will be moving on to Android, IOS and Windows phones. They moved on for better cameras, more apps, faster hardware, accessory support, better enterprise features (yes I said it), and an many other things that a popular ecosystem provide, meanwhile you sit around and snarl that you don't need all that, just like I did when BBOS was tanking. It seems to me that very little in the BB community has changed, even with a new OS.

I have been a BB user for nearly a decade and have suffered through the same delusion you appear to be going through, which is fine. But for you to be so condescending to someone because he is saying that BB made some bad decisions, doesn't have the apps he needs, and that their new devices continue to not keep up with competition is hilarious and frankly gives me deja-vu.

[extisis]

Its quite laughable that you are portraying BB10 as the progressive and modern operating system. The entire world has considered it, and seems to disagree with that.

The people who skipped BB10, include people who moved on to Android, IOS and Windows phones, for better cameras, more apps, faster hardware, more accessory support, better enterprise features (yes I said it), and an all around improved ecosystem, while you sit around and snarl that you don't need all that, just like we did when BBOS was tanking. It seems to me that very little in the BB community has changed, even with a new OS.

I have been a BB user for nearly a decade and have suffered through the same delusion you appear to be going through, which is fine. But for you to be so condescending to someone because he is saying that BB made some bad decisions, and that their new devices continue to not keep up with competition is hilarious.

glad to have gave you the gift of laughter but you missed the last thing i said on the topic. i didn't necessarily say that BB10 was the only option for BBOS users. I said "the rest of us are moving on" a statement which went past the head of your colleague @belfastdispatcher. they could move onto anything they want, android, iOS, a FLIP phone. but BBOS is over. that's what everyone else is trying to get at. i wasn't condescending at all. you wanna badmouth BB10 that's great, i'm loving it and am more productive with it than i was on BBOS. go figure. as i always say, to each his own.

and if you don't think BB10 is progressive (obviously it's modern) then you're delusional.

[hanexs]

glad to have gave you the gift of laughter but you missed the last thing i said on the topic. i didn't necessarily say that BB10 was the only option for BBOS users. I said "the rest of us are moving on" a statement which went past the head of your colleague @belfastdispatcher. they could move onto anything they want, android, iOS, a FLIP phone. but BBOS is over. that's what everyone else is trying to get at. i wasn't condescending at all. you wanna badmouth BB10 that's great, i'm loving it and am more productive with it than i was on BBOS. go figure. as i always say, to each his own.

and if you don't think BB10 is progressive (obviously it's modern) then you're delusional.

What @belfastdispatcher was saying that BB10 still doesn't have some of the features he valued from BBOS and you discounted that. BB10 cannot ever hope to compete with IOS or Android if it can't even meet the minimum requirements of a BBOS user.

[belfastdispatcher]

glad to have gave you the gift of laughter but you missed the last thing i said on the topic. i didn't necessarily say that BB10 was the only option for BBOS users. I said "the rest of us are moving on" a statement which went past the head of your colleague @belfastdispatcher. they could move onto anything they want, android, iOS, a FLIP phone. but BBOS is over. that's what everyone else is trying to get at. i wasn't condescending at all. you wanna badmouth BB10 that's great, i'm loving it and am more productive with it than i was on BBOS. go figure. as i always say, to each his own.

and if you don't think BB10 is progressive (obviously it's modern) then you're delusional.

What went past your head is this whole thread is based on the past not the future, as in what could've/should've been done back in 2010 or so.

BBOS is over and it appears BB10 is also over, at least for consumers. How many quarters do you think they go on with only selling a million BB10 devices?

[extisis]

What went past your head is this whole thread is based on the past not the future, as in what could've/should've been done back in 2010 or so.

BBOS is over and it appears BB10 is also over, at least for consumers. How many quarters do you think they go on with only selling a million BB10 devices?

i don't really care what direction a thread goes into to say what i have to say. title says did we need a new OS and my argument stands as yes. BBOS has been over, ever since that last phone was released or whenever the last update to 7.1 was. now, to satisfy your need to stay in the based premise of what could have been done in the past- any and every theory has been blurted out as to how BBOS could have survived in the new generation of mobile devices. nothing is really viable and only better presents that BB10 as the better route. BB10 could be over for you as a consumer but I'm still getting updates and will soon have 10.2.1 then 10.3 when it's out. It's really nice to receive updates to a dead device, i must say i don't know how many quarters they'll last, but i'll enjoy it while i can .

[extisis]

What @belfastdispatcher was saying that BB10 still doesn't have some of the features he valued from BBOS and you discounted that. BB10 cannot ever hope to compete with IOS or Android if it can't even meet the minimum requirements of a BBOS user.

just one opinion of many.

[flyingsolid]

There was no need to replace the OS. It was a boneheaded decision by Lazaridis & Co. that ruined BlackBerry.
[...]

I am just passing by and want to thank you for posting.

[johnnyuk]

Maybe they needed to change the OS but they should've done without their customers noticing anything except performance improvements.

So BB10, or BBOS8 as you would probably prefer it to have been called, should have been rewritten internally from scratch for performance but still look exactly like creaking old bolted-together-from-the-last-decade's-spare-parts-bin BBOS7? In 2013?

Man, you have a lust for BBOS that verges on a fetish.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

[johnnyuk]

Anything can benefit from more RAM. I don't believe BBOS couldn't take advantage of more RAM

It can't if it hasn't been designed to and both the hardware and software have to be designed to. I'm afraid once again your lack of knowledge of how computers work is making you 'not believe things' again.

A computer motherboard for example is only designed to address (work with) a particular maximum amount of physical RAM. Say for example it's 4GB. Now you can take out the RAM that's in and put 8GB if you want but the motherboard won't see the extra RAM. In fact you will be lucky if it boots at all. The same principle applies with mobile phone hardware design, they are just small computers after all.

The Operating System also has to be designed to be able to address a particular maximum amount of physical RAM. Just as with hardware if you exceed that limit by adding more physical RAM the OS will either ignore it or throw a total wobbler.

In the case of the ancient kernel in BBOS there is a physical addressable RAM limitation along with all kinds of crazy quirks like having to have separate app storage memory that also can only be of a limited amount and an app's files being limited to below a certain size each unless you store the data for an app, such as graphics and audio, on the Media Card instead (a more recent BBOS kludge for an age old inherent problem).

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

[johnnyuk]

Obviously you didn't bother reading the post I was replying to otherwise you wouldn't be repeating the same thing again.

You were talking about BBOS apps never crashing (for you). I was pointing out that they most certainly did for everyone else and sometimes take down all other running apps and the OS with it.

Here's one for you, ever get a "JVM" or "App Error xxx" on a BBOS phone? Where a module of the OS has decided to spontaneously corrupt itself rendering your phone useless until your reinstall the OS? No? Didn't see as many BBOS phones and all their problems as me then. That would happen once a week to someone where I work.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

[johnnyuk]

Sure it's excellent and seamless now but still a long way from BBOS, Social Feeds was amazing for example and BBOS didn't need separate setups for Hub and app for social networks. Notice how you reed notifications in the Hub but they don't actually sync with the app to mark them as read?

Still a long way from BBOS integration of apps my friend. Why do you think many if us loved it so much?

Look, you've tried to change the subject of what you were talking about again! You were saying it was the fault of QNX that PlayBook apps didn't share data through invokation. You weren't talking about BBOS at all. (sigh).

Do you really think that it's impossible to code the Social Feeds app for BB10? I hope you don't or there's no hope. I actually think the idea should have been incorporated in to BBM so that it became the new Social Hub with FB, Twitter, LinkedIn and Channels updates visible inside the BBM app the way Channels are now.

In the Hub they've tried to keep all Accounts for it, mail and social, in one place which is a good idea. What apps do outside of that is up to them. As BlackBerry write the FB app they could make it use the Hub account if you've got one setup to keep things synchronised, but they don't seem to be giving FB much dev time, there are bigger fish to fry. Maybe one day there will be APIs for developers so that other apps can make use of Hub accounts to keep things synchronised, with permissions granted by the user.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

[CrackberryQ]

Do new cars need injection? Shouldn't have they stuck with carburetors !

Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

For the last year or so it has been those BBOS Luddites that kept BlackBerry alive by continuing to buy legacy devices. Without them BB would be now dead.

BlackBerry are losing Billions every quarter. I don't think it would make much difference if half those BBOS sales hadn't been there such is the low margin they get from the devices and the fact that carriers are charging less and less for BIS and BES after negotiating for less and less service revenue to BlackBerry due to their weak position.

But God bless those Luddites with incredibly poor taste in phones for their contribution.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

[johnnyuk]

This paragraph says it all, nothing to do with the OS, it's lack of hardware:

"You see, BlackBerry OS runs its apps and OS from only 768 Mb of system memory and has no other RAM for the applications to run in, as on other smartphone platforms or computers. They run where they are installed. This can be beneficial for security reasons. Plus, you can run as many apps simultaneously as you have installed. Every app will just pop open, no matter how many apps are running. The device memory, on the other hand, is where you keep your files and other documents you�ve saved to your BlackBerry. This is in the gigabyte range on BlackBerry 7 phones, and isn�t something that affects the performance at all."

You see, from your layman's perspective I'm afraid you've misunderstood that first sentence about as much as it's possible to.

The fact that BlackBerry OS runs itself and apps from a limited pool of 768MB of RAM is not because BlackBerry didn't bother to put more RAM in the phone. 768MB is the limit of the addressable RAM that is designed in to the OS, the SOFTWARE running on the phone.

BlackBerry could put a TeraByte of RAM for the OS and Apps in a (big!) BBOS7 phone but the limit would still be 768MB.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

[belfastdispatcher]

You see, from your layman's perspective I'm afraid you've misunderstood that first sentence about as much as it's possible to.

The fact that BlackBerry OS runs itself and apps from a limited pool of 768MB of RAM is not because BlackBerry didn't bother to put more RAM in the phone. 768MB is the limit of the addressable RAM that is designed in to the OS, the SOFTWARE running on the phone.

BlackBerry could put a TerraByte of RAM for the OS and Apps in a (big!) BBOS7 phone but the limit would still be 768MB.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

Proof? Or is this just your opinion?

[Dave Bourque]

I just read about supporting BB7 indefintely, and it makes me wonder, why did BB need to change OS's at all? I mean, there are a lot of things I like about bb10, but when I look at my 9900, I don't really see why they couldnt have modified the OS instead of creating a whole new one and burning a whole 2-3 years doing so.

For those of you that know a bit more of what would be involved, would it have been easier to:

introduce the peek and flow concepts to BBOS,
make BBOS crash less
and upgrade the ram and cpu to work at an acceptable speed?

I love BB10, but when I loook at my 9900, I think all it needed was a LOT more speed (ram and cpu), some more stability, a non crappy camera, and a lot more apps. How hard would it have been for them to do this instead of building a whole new os?

Or did they really just hit a wall with the OS and they couldnt improve it anymore? It seems unfortunate for BB to have two OS's to support.

Clearly you haven't used BB10...

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1925