[devGOD]

"You'd think working for a big tech company would have its gadget-related perks and in Dell's case that's very much true. The big PC vendor has demonstrated its commitment to building up its own smartphone services by offering to trade employees' old and busted BlackBerry devices for the shiny new hotness that is the Venue Pro. If everyone takes up Round Rock on its offer, there'll be 25,000 RIM smartphones looking for new homes soon, along with a sprightly start to Windows Phone 7's time in the limelight. The Wall Street Journal reports this'll cut Dell's mobile communications bill by a quarter, thanks to no longer having to support BlackBerry servers, while also noting that Android variants will be made available in the future as well. Where there's Lightning, there's gotta be Thunder, right?"

Dell offering free Venue Pros to employees in exchange for their BlackBerrys -- Engadget

This could be a problem if other companies start to follow. According to a commenter Home Depot is also going Windows Phone 7. Keep in mind most corporations have MS Servers and Exchange servers already in place, removing BES would do nothing but save money.

[Stides]

I agree that this is a big problem. If companies can save money in this economy my ditching blackberry that is bad news for RIM. RIM has their hands full in the consumer space competing with android and iOS. It looks like they may have to battle it out on the business front as well with WP7. You can't discount android's inroads in business as well.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[_StephenBB81]

With BES expresss the Cost of Running blackberry's isn't as high as it once was

and the cost of buying all new hardware probably out weighs the cost of running both services. I do agree RIM is in for a fight with MS when it comes to the Business front, I've said it in other threads, I don't think RIM needs to worry about Apple or Android on the business front, but WinMo 7 is going to be a real competitor just having full mobile office and OneNote/Sharepoint integration is going to make WinMo a device of choice in many businesses,

but mass adoption by a NON hardware manufacturer is something I see as a small possibility

[infamyx]

With BES expresss the Cost of Running blackberry's isn't as high as it once was

and the cost of buying all new hardware probably out weighs the cost of running both services. I do agree RIM is in for a fight with MS when it comes to the Business front, I've said it in other threads, I don't think RIM needs to worry about Apple or Android on the business front, but WinMo 7 is going to be a real competitor just having full mobile office and OneNote/Sharepoint integration is going to make WinMo a device of choice in many businesses,

but mass adoption by a NON hardware manufacturer is something I see as a small possibility

WP7 has more going for it enterprise wise than any other OS atm but thats not why it will be successful (only partly)

As for the bolded part, its already happening but its not something thats exclusive to WP7 since its not even on the market here yet. Enterprises are killing off BES servers (which in turn means no longer spending on CALs) and selling off old BlackBerry devices and telling their employees "Bring your own phone". And on companies that are running BlackBerry and BES, there are users who DONT WANT IT, they'd rather have their own personal phone which is usually an iPhone/Android.

RIMs solution which was top of the heap just 4 years ago just isnt needed as much when you can similarly lock a device down and get access to corporate email and deploy your own applications, which is the majority of enterprise devices now.

BES is going to end up just becoming super specialized due to most companies that will need it will be due to government imposed restrictions on communications

[_StephenBB81]

WP7 has more going for it enterprise wise than any other OS atm but thats not why it will be successful (only partly)

As for the bolded part, its already happening but its not something thats exclusive to WP7 since its not even on the market here yet. Enterprises are killing off BES servers (which in turn means no longer spending on CALs) and selling off old BlackBerry devices and telling their employees "Bring your own phone". And on companies that are running BlackBerry and BES, there are users who DONT WANT IT, they'd rather have their own personal phone which is usually an iPhone/Android.

RIMs solution which was top of the heap just 4 years ago just isnt needed as much when you can similarly lock a device down and get access to corporate email and deploy your own applications, which is the majority of enterprise devices now.

BES is going to end up just becoming super specialized due to most companies that will need it will be due to government imposed restrictions on communications

The Bring your own phone argument is a completely different Argument, I agree that is happening, but the company's that issue phones to employees are far less likely to say return all your blackberry's we are issuing everyone phone XYZ, they are more likey to offer dual functionality and phase in other phones as Blackberry's die or new contracts are negotiated.

[_StephenBB81]

I actually wanted to Comment on BES being super specialized,

I do agree! it has huge potential to be, IF RIM would actually look at BES as a potential tool, and Enter the software market, make BES a CRM with the Blackberry's there are SOO many CRM folutions (intentional miss spelling as they are NOT solutions) RIM could use BES as a CRM tool that integrates with your email client, server side, and can give reason for BES over BIS for company's

ALSO BES would make an Excellent tool for Medical data transmission within hospitals and remote medical areas, BUT they need to build medical applications for Smartphones and Playbooks, and create a way that a hardware manufacturer can send data via BES using a RIM hardware/software board installed into say an MRI unit.

There are many avenues that RIM should be exploring, they need to realize they have / had a great name in business, and before they start losing it (more) they need to look at money making ways that Apple, and Android can not enter so they can just fight the Microsoft battle

[The_Engine]

With BES expresss the Cost of Running blackberry's isn't as high as it once was

and the cost of buying all new hardware probably out weighs the cost of running both services. I do agree RIM is in for a fight with MS when it comes to the Business front, I've said it in other threads, I don't think RIM needs to worry about Apple or Android on the business front, but WinMo 7 is going to be a real competitor just having full mobile office and OneNote/Sharepoint integration is going to make WinMo a device of choice in many businesses,

but mass adoption by a NON hardware manufacturer is something I see as a small possibility

Just want to point out that BES Express is limited to a small # of users. Hardly classify that "Enterprise". So BES is still expensive for a larger corporation, that already has an Exchange environment. WP7 is basically looking to offer a much more feature rich mobile solution with limited add'l cost. The price of that Hardware (new WP7 devices) will be insignificant to that of BES licensing, the Hardware for BES that could be re-purposed and the resale of BB's.

I am still not sold that WP7 will take root, but BES 7 and QNX based BB's have to offer much more complete MS Office integration, otherwise BB really will be in trouble. And now MS can choke them out by just holding back integration tools for Office products. If they want to get serious they can easily make themselves the only mobile platform that integrates with Office. At the least they can make it so no one else can come near the features they provide.

[CanuckBB]

Just want to point out that BES Express is limited to a small # of users.

2,000 per BESX server is 'small'??????

[_StephenBB81]

2,000 per BESX server is 'small'??????

Technically yes

as in a SMALL company to the government to bid on contracts is <500 employee's
a Medium Company is <10,000 Employees

[The_Engine]

2,000 per BESX server is 'small'??????

Ummmm... I thought BESX was like for 20 users. 2000 is small for a large corporation. But it is still pretty good.

[JRSCCivic98]

de, why submit to the limits imposed by the BESX choice when you can have the full options of Enterprise integration by going with ActiveSync instead. Dollar for dollar, ActiveSync and Exchange is much more economical then BES or even BESX, especially for a large company (i.e. with lots of employees, 500+ easy).

I think the mistake that RIM is making is that they've just in the past couple of years realized that their handheld OS needs more help and they're trying to make those changes, but on top of that, people are also tried of the backend model at work. RIM's come to fame line has always been that it can do Push with good battery life... but for much more cost. Well, other companies have implemented Push up until now at the cost of battery life... but the thing is, with the advancement of battery technology in today's world, that isn't as much of an issue anymore and soon will go away as well. That will leave RIM 2 features poor in my opinion. So, even if their BBOS makes a complete turnaround, I hope they also have a NOC revamp happening at the same time, because besides the user experience on the handheld right now, they also have backend issues such as imposed download and email limits. You can't expect a person to function in 2011 with the imposed email limits of 1994.

[porando]

My company ( ~ 2000 people but most of the BB users are hi tech and mature professionals) about a year ago transferred BB ownership to employees - still pay bills but we on the device. Result - 75 % are out of BB - migrated to iPhone and Android devices - and top executives were first to do it.... I guess in the next year or so when more will be due for upgrade - 90% will be out if RIM won't come up with (I am one of them waiting but seriously considering departure if RIM won't come with a competitive device ). I tend to believe that it is a trend - BB is loosing it and loosing it faster than they think. It says that there was no single person ordering Torch.(!!??) They have 9000's which they would givew away for free if anybody wanted it...no takers. The only arguments for BBs I am hearing are - "I am used to it", "Works for me so why change". "No reason to spend money for upgrade".
Had a discussion the other day at work and it was interesting that people don't value the security as much anymore - Gov is "monitoring" BB as much as the other devices. People who moved to other devices are very happy or happy..some consider switching to different system (i.s from iPhone to Droid) but no single person regrets or thinking to go back to BB and some actually feel that because they don't have emails pushed (supposed to be key BB advantage) - now they have more control (and more life) when they want to check emails.. interesting opinion but makes some sense.

[valorian]

It really doers not surprise me that Dell is doing this. And I don't think it's a WM vs. BlackBerry issue. It's more about Dell wanting their employees to be walking around with Dell products, not RIM products.

Same as when I worked for Motorola. You never saw anyone using BlackBerrys, they all used Motorola phones.

[devGOD]

It really doers not surprise me that Dell is doing this. And I don't think it's a WM vs. BlackBerry issue. It's more about Dell wanting their employees to be walking around with Dell products, not RIM products.

Same as when I worked for Motorola. You never saw anyone using BlackBerrys, they all used Motorola phones.

I thought about that too, but Home Depot is also going the WP7 route too. Yes for Dell they're in competition with RIM to sell handsets, but overall the message that both Dell and Home Depot are sending will be clear to other corporation. Hey you can save money by switching. And I'm pretty sure MS will be more than happy to give discounts on handsets and server integration software. For once this is not about which phone is better, its about RIM having real competition because Microsoft is back in the mobile market.

[uli2000]

Dell: "We're Kicking [BlackBerry] Out

Kicking a boot into RIM's side, Dell's announced all 25,000 employees will be given Dell Venue Pros running WP7 in exchange for their BlackBerrys, but they're also offering a new service to their clients for help switching from BlackBerry.

Dell's Chief Financial Officer Brian Gladden said of the change that "clearly in this decision we are competing with RIM, because we're kicking them out." Switching from BlackBerry will save Dell 25 per cent of phone costs (as they won't have to pay the monthly BlackBerry fees), and they're even looking to recoup some of the costs by "creating a site on eBay where we can actually sell these BlackBery devices."

Looks like they arn't giving them a choice, it's gonna happen.

[CASH]

I sent this article (from WSJ) to CB yesterday night. Guess they thought it wasn't news worthy for the blog. Ahh, the bias (propaganda perhaps?) of CB.

[papped]

Would not be surprised if MS basically handed over a fat incentive to do this in order to push public opinion that WP7 is an enterprise replacement.

Considering they have a $500million budget for advertising it, very likely... What was likely left out of the article was that the phones were free because MS flipped the bill.

[JRSCCivic98]

I thought about that too, but Home Depot is also going the WP7 route too. Yes for Dell they're in competition with RIM to sell handsets, but overall the message that both Dell and Home Depot are sending will be clear to other corporation. Hey you can save money by switching. And I'm pretty sure MS will be more than happy to give discounts on handsets and server integration software. For once this is not about which phone is better, its about RIM having real competition because Microsoft is back in the mobile market.

That's just it. There is NO server integration software. It's all built into the existing server products that MS has on market. It's also all pretty much preenabled and preconfigured out the box during the installs. So, integration is a non-issue. So is licensing... the costs are already incurred when you buy the server software and license it per user for nomal domain operations, so there's no additional costs when tieing in an MS smartphone into it.

[JoelTruckerDude]

My company ( ~ 2000 people but most of the BB users are hi tech and mature professionals) about a year ago transferred BB ownership to employees - still pay bills but we on the device. Result - 75 % are out of BB - migrated to iPhone and Android devices - and top executives were first to do it.... I guess in the next year or so when more will be due for upgrade - 90% will be out if RIM won't come up with (I am one of them waiting but seriously considering departure if RIM won't come with a competitive device ). I tend to believe that it is a trend - BB is loosing it and loosing it faster than they think. It says that there was no single person ordering Torch.(!!??) They have 9000's which they would givew away for free if anybody wanted it...no takers. The only arguments for BBs I am hearing are - "I am used to it", "Works for me so why change". "No reason to spend money for upgrade".
Had a discussion the other day at work and it was interesting that people don't value the security as much anymore - Gov is "monitoring" BB as much as the other devices. People who moved to other devices are very happy or happy..some consider switching to different system (i.s from iPhone to Droid) but no single person regrets or thinking to go back to BB and some actually feel that because they don't have emails pushed (supposed to be key BB advantage) - now they have more control (and more life) when they want to check emails.. interesting opinion but makes some sense.

Lol, they said the same thing when Windows 95 released to upgrade Windows CE.

[JRSCCivic98]

Lol, they said the same thing when Windows 95 released to upgrade Windows CE.

Windows 95 was NEVER the replacement or upgrade to Windows CE.

[Reed McLay]

TORONTO (Dow Jones)--BlackBerry maker Research In Motion Ltd. (RIMM) said it's "highly unlikely" that Dell Inc. (DELL) will save any money by switching to the Dell Venue Pro from the BlackBerry.

"We find it highly unlikely that they will actually save any money with this move and far more likely they were looking for a little free publicity," RIM's Senior Vice President of Corporate Marketing Mark Guibert said in an emailed statement.
...
In his statement, RIM's Guibert said Dell likely won't save any money when the hard and soft costs of purchasing, deploying and supporting new devices and new software are factored in. As well, he said BlackBerrys are far more efficient with respect to data usage, meaning the monthly service charges that Dell employees pay for smartphone usage will likely increase after the shifts to the Venue Pro.

In addition, Guibert said companies concerned about software costs can download BlackBerry Enterprise Server Express for free. The product already supports Microsoft Exchange, and on Friday, RIM introduced a version for IBM Lotus Domino.

Dell declined to comment for this story.

...

UPDATE: RIM Says Dell Move Away From BlackBerry May Be For Publicity - WSJ.com

Windows 3.1 was the version 95 replaced.

[JRSCCivic98]

^^^ lol, so RIM's saying that Dell's currently not paying anything for their BES server software or licenses? Because that would be the only way they wouldn't be saving ANY money by dropping RIM.

[JoelTruckerDude]

Windows 95 was NEVER the replacement or upgrade to Windows CE.

I know this, I meant the mentality of "if it ain't broke don't fix" getting people to move forward to newer and better software, technology, etc.

Sorry for not clarifying better.

[JoelTruckerDude]

Windows 3.1 was the version 95 replaced.

Lol, maybe that's why when typing CE I thought it didn't look right.

[syb0rg]

also on eWeek.com

Dell Replacing BlackBerry Smartphones with Dell Handsets - Mobile and Wireless - News & Reviews

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com