1. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    I understand what you are saying but the cost of doing business (research, design, engineering) in Canada is much higher than China. Then there are additional costs of programming drivers for bb10.

    Posted via CB10
    isnt everything designed by engineers in North America and build in China anyway?

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    03-01-16 11:15 AM
  2. Djlatino's Avatar
    I stopped reading at $500.
    Blacklatino likes this.
    03-01-16 12:23 PM
  3. Blacklatino's Avatar
    The BlackBerry CAN come back if they really wanted to. All they need to do is listen to their customers and actually compare their phones with the current market to get an idea of where they stand.

    I see BlackBerry as I see Nintendo; both have large loyal customers but both companies refuse to listen to their customers and produce the beast that would change the game.

    Posted via CB10

    IMO, if BlackBerry "could" have come back, they would have done so......with the launch of BB10. As far as a beast, if the Z30 had been updated........oh well, this sway-backed horse(the "Z30 Update" Theory) has been ridden too much and needs to be put down. As far as listening to it's customers comment- true. Problem is, the only people saying/listening (now) are current/former customers.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    03-01-16 01:41 PM
  4. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Issuers aren't going to allow payment solutions with no passcode. Users (and we've tested this a lot) generally won't use payment solutions that require you to enter passcodes. They'll use this 2-3 times and then you won't see another tap transaction on the account ever.

    Tap transaction with fingerprint is very fast and convenient. Users use it much more consistently. The sum total of fraud from that method is provably lower than EMV or swipe.

    So while perhaps not ideal, I don't understand how it is a bad idea? What would be a better idea for payments?
    [sorry for the OT]
    Your arguments make full sense. And it explains why there's such a trend with that while it is known for ages this is both a bad idea (non modifiable credentials) and not that efficient security wise [in high secure areas it's always a second ID factor].

    There's no ideal solution and the point is not about "fraud", not even really the device on its own.
    P.S: A 4 digits PIN tap is not a problem for me, is it , really ? Does it worse such a threat ?

    It's the idea that this fingerprint scanner is the graal of security, which, obviously it isn't.
    When it will get the #1 ID process, we will enter the same disaster than when CC numbers were bulk hosted by lazy (or technically unpaired) web sites and shops. Problem is : even if your CC number and info are stolen, you can change it.
    You simply can't with your fingerprint. That's my concern.
    Just imagine what [put any hostile person here] can do with it if your entire digital life ID is based on it.

    I know I fight the windmill here (I'm the Dom Quichotte !) and unfortunately, there will be no miracle; users decide what products/technology they want to embrace; short-sighted, lazy, or not ...
    03-01-16 01:57 PM
  5. z10Jobe's Avatar
    isnt everything designed by engineers in North America and build in China anyway?

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Not necessarily.

    One plus one, Huawei (nexus), lenovo, etc are Chinese companys. Their engineers get paid less than North American engineers.

    Also, historically, most BlackBerry phones were made in North America - Mexico for the most part, although I believe that the Leap and Classic are now made in China.

    Posted via CB10
    03-01-16 02:40 PM
  6. app_Developer's Avatar
    [sorry for the OT]

    There's no ideal solution and the point is not about "fraud", not even really the device on its own.
    ...
    Worth discussing in a different thread since this is OT. I would argue the whole point of security in a mobile payment device is to reduce fraud. Apple and Samsung have done more to reduce payment fraud than any other solution that exists in real life.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    03-01-16 03:06 PM
  7. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Worth discussing in a different thread since this is OT. I would argue the whole point of security in a mobile payment device is to reduce fraud. Apple and Samsung have done more to reduce payment fraud than any other solution that exists in real life.
    Still OT:

    Making Security convenient.... Lot's of people didn't (and still don't) use any form of lock on their smartphones (even among BlackBerry users - there was a poll here that almost a 1/3 of users did nothing). But I know of a number that do use the fingerprint readers on their iPhones now. No more effort than pushing a power button.

    Offers the most secure solution... NO. But for many it's far better than nothing. Not at least offering the option on the PRIV was a mistake. It was designed for consumers, and you can warn users of it limitation.... and let them choose. Not offering it, takes that choice away.

    Back on Topic:

    BlackBerry has NEVER been a company that taught consumers deserved to make choices....
    03-01-16 03:33 PM
  8. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    IMO, if BlackBerry "could" have come back, they would have done so......with the launch of BB10. As far as a beast, if the Z30 had been updated........oh well, this sway-backed horse(the "Z30 Update" Theory) has been ridden too much and needs to be put down. As far as listening to it's customers comment- true. Problem is, the only people saying/listening (now) are current/former customers.
    [disclaimer] This would seem more relevant if I had also quoted the person you were replying to, but I'm using Tapatalk via mobile phone and too lazy to find the multi-quoute option.

    I don't doubt for a moment that BlackBerry wanted to make a comeback. Nor do I doubt that they "could" have had they taken the proper steps to do so.

    The underlying problem was that BlackBerry was successful in a time when they had very little, if any, competition. They built a huge empire around it.

    Unfortunately, when competition did step up, the RIM/BlackBerry corporation was infected with a lackadaisical work environment because they'd never had to work under pressure to grind out products in a timely manner. Once the competition started releasing upgradea in 1/5th the time RIM/BlackBerry could, BlackBerry sat back on their laurels.

    Then by the time to RIM decided that they needed to get on the ball and start cranking out updated products and services, their entire corporation was infected with a lackadaisical work ethic. The term "soon" was synonymous with "no sooner than 2 years from now". And that attitude wasn't just at the base level. It infected even the executive level. RIM/BlackBerry was full of employees who got paid well for a gravy work schedule. Unfortunately, that will always fail in the face of competition that busts tail to produce as quickly as possible.

    When Chen came in, his first order of business was "produce or get out". And it's working. Maybe not to the pleasure of the smartphone fan base that aren't getting the products they want. But that's because what the consumer fan base wants had been squandered to what very well may be irrecoverable, and it's not Chen's job to do that. His only job is to make the company profitable, not to please the average consumer.
    03-01-16 06:34 PM
  9. IEatBlackBerries's Avatar
    Damn! Give it a rest with BB10. It's DEAD. D E A D. They're not going to produce another BB10 device when it isn't profitable.

    Accept it.
    tufcustomer likes this.
    03-01-16 07:43 PM
  10. BerrySoul's Avatar
    I want a BB10 Passport II SE!!!!!!!!!. You listen Chen???????!!!!!. No android crap.

      
    03-01-16 09:48 PM
  11. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    I want a BB10 Passport II SE!!!!!!!!!. You listen Chen???????!!!!!. No android crap.

      
    Why not talk with us instead of at us?
    03-01-16 09:57 PM
  12. sid89's Avatar
    By producing expensive priv on android and not getting enough sales and confusing people that BlackBerry is dead by saying BlackBerry is going droid and yet at MWC no sight of new announcements followed by what's app declaring end to support bb10 you have made a utterly stupid move chen!!

    At least Thor period saw many activities at blackberry and was at the attention of the media and also his period saw dedicated launches and developers meet. Look now!! No developers to support bb10 and no official launches atleast!! It's all happening in the dark as if you want to kill BlackBerry 10 and it's handset division deliberately.

    All that I would request is please don't kill bb10!! If resources is lacking don't launch any new phones but at least lend us all the support that the blackberry 10 user requires by giving updates and most importantly support developers and lend them superb support so that whatever the size of blackberry 10 users are present will definitely be supportive towards BlackBerry and wouldn't jump ships.

    Finally, chen should ensure that in the public he should never make any statements like he will be shutting down the hardware div, stop the support, or anything that would antagonise blackberry 10 future. If he makes these approaches naturally developers, what's app etc would go on making ruining statements against bb10 and ultimately bb10 would end up with no prospective buyers and make ardent followers of blackberry part ways to some other OS.

    Please for BlackBerry sake please don't kill BB10!!!


    Posted via CB10
    03-01-16 10:41 PM
  13. z10Jobe's Avatar
    Damn! Give it a rest with BB10. It's DEAD. D E A D. They're not going to produce another BB10 device when it isn't profitable.

    Accept it.
    Yes sir.... but that doesn't explain why you are posting on a dead platform sir... that is just dang weird if you don't mind me saying so Mr. Sir. Please don't eat my phone sir. Thank you for enlightening me sir...

    Posted via CB10
    Blacklatino and BerrySoul like this.
    03-01-16 11:02 PM
  14. bhoqeem's Avatar
    Yes sir.... but that doesn't explain why you are posting on a dead platform sir... that is just dang weird if you don't mind me saying so Mr. Sir. Please don't eat my phone sir. Thank you for enlightening me sir...

    Posted via CB10
    03-01-16 11:07 PM
  15. Blacklatino's Avatar
    [disclaimer] This would seem more relevant if I had also quoted the person you were replying to, but I'm using Tapatalk via mobile phone and too lazy to find the multi-quoute option.

    I don't doubt for a moment that BlackBerry wanted to make a comeback. Nor do I doubt that they "could" have had they taken the proper steps to do so.

    The underlying problem was that BlackBerry was successful in a time when they had very little, if any, competition. They built a huge empire around it.

    Unfortunately, when competition did step up, the RIM/BlackBerry corporation was infected with a lackadaisical work environment because they'd never had to work under pressure to grind out products in a timely manner. Once the competition started releasing upgradea in 1/5th the time RIM/BlackBerry could, BlackBerry sat back on their laurels.

    Then by the time to RIM decided that they needed to get on the ball and start cranking out updated products and services, their entire corporation was infected with a lackadaisical work ethic. The term "soon" was synonymous with "no sooner than 2 years from now". And that attitude wasn't just at the base level. It infected even the executive level. RIM/BlackBerry was full of employees who got paid well for a gravy work schedule. Unfortunately, that will always fail in the face of competition that busts tail to produce as quickly as possible.

    When Chen came in, his first order of business was "produce or get out". And it's working. Maybe not to the pleasure of the smartphone fan base that aren't getting the products they want. But that's because what the consumer fan base wants had been squandered to what very well may be irrecoverable, and it's not Chen's job to do that. His only job is to make the company profitable, not to please the average consumer.
    Agreed.
    I've been here for the full ride -when BlackBerries were very popular in '07 and the eventual downslide. So, while some or most want to hold out hope that BlackBerry will release another BB10, I don't see it happening. So, no argument here. Also, (IMO) that's not hate. For me, it's more than that. While I'm not at all happy with how BlackBerry got to this point(again, know the history), if the Android-BlackBerry project doesn't work, I don't see how BlackBerry could - financially go back and pick up where they left off with BB10.

    @OP, the person I quoted gave a lot more information than I in my initial post. I'm just adding my input to it. Also, nothing wrong with wanting a new BlackBerry. I do. But, I'm not willing to pay what they want for the Priv on at&t. Once the Marshmallow OS is released for update, I'll consider it again.

    Glass half-full people: Quit complaining and just refill the glass. /SM-G928A 😎
    03-02-16 12:14 AM
  16. ravencore's Avatar
    Damn! Give it a rest with BB10. It's DEAD. D E A D. They're not going to produce another BB10 device when it isn't profitable.

    Accept it.
    First, Why exactly do any BB10 fans need to "accept" something just because you think it's the truth?
    People have a right to think for themselves.

    Second, the OS wasn't profitable because they BlackBerry did everything wrong not because it couldn't have been profitable.
    That is why the Apple newton largely failed under the dying Apple in the 90's.. It was an innovative product for the time, perhaps much more then the iphone.. and yet they DID everything wrong which made it flop. Likewise Apple, once they fixed the corporate culture, had insane success with even mediocre products.

    So yeah I would rather BlackBerry fix their culture and then make the great product they are meant to... instead of just putting up a surrender flag and squandering resources in the wrong direction.

    Last, a product is not dead as long as it is still useful to me. And i'm not required to adopt the android priv just because you say so .. when I know from first hand experience that android sucks on so many levels.
    Last edited by ravencore; 03-02-16 at 06:56 AM.
    03-02-16 06:45 AM
  17. ravencore's Avatar
    Also, (IMO) that's not hate. For me, it's more than that. While I'm not at all happy with how BlackBerry got to this point(again, know the history), if the Android-BlackBerry project doesn't work, I don't see how BlackBerry could - financially go back and pick up where they left off with BB10.
    I hear you but I think you should look beyond just RIM history to see the full truth. There is no denying BlackBerry is currently a dying company - there is also no denying getting a company out of dying mode and back to growth is a huge feat.
    But, it can (and should) be done.
    I think Apple is probably the best case study. When for example the Macintosh was being developed, almost 90% of the company had become dead-weight.
    Only the mac devision was doing anything innovative. And apple continued to die throughout he 90s because they didn't kill of the dead-weight and didn't get behind the innovators. It wasn't until they allowed Steve Jobs to come back and restore the innovative spirit that things turned around.

    BlackBerry would be better to sell out the remaining priv and bb10 inventory, lay off 90% of the dead-weight to take the financial stress off the company and give them needed time and breathing space.. create a new innovative core team (like the mac devision) that understands the big picture and adopts a new corporate culture and only then launch a new amazing product that they throw everything financially behind.
    03-02-16 07:12 AM
  18. ravencore's Avatar
    [disclaimer] But that's because what the consumer fan base wants had been squandered to what very well may be irrecoverable, and it's not Chen's job to do that. His only job is to make the company profitable, not to please the average consumer.
    I agreed with everything you said until that point .
    The CEOs job is to make the company make a dent in the universe, and deliver a product that the customers didn't even know they wanted, while being profitable.
    And if Chen can't do it he should get out of the drivers seat.
    03-02-16 07:34 AM
  19. cbeeches's Avatar
    Priv. Overpriced and underwhelming for me. If Blackberry wants to compete in Android space lower price is the ticket.
    Hell, the Priv costs more than the popular iPhone 6 and 6S. Ridiculous.
    Jim
    Z30
    03-02-16 08:32 AM
  20. idssteve's Avatar
    If it's going to be overpriced, it should at least provide "bragging rights" specs.
    03-02-16 10:35 AM
  21. Ronindan's Avatar
    I hear you but I think you should look beyond just RIM history to see the full truth. There is no denying BlackBerry is currently a dying company - there is also no denying getting a company out of dying mode and back to growth is a huge feat.
    But, it can (and should) be done.
    I think Apple is probably the best case study. When for example the Macintosh was being developed, almost 90% of the company had become dead-weight.
    Only the mac devision was doing anything innovative. And apple continued to die throughout he 90s because they didn't kill of the dead-weight and didn't get behind the innovators. It wasn't until they allowed Steve Jobs to come back and restore the innovative spirit that things turned around.

    BlackBerry would be better to sell out the remaining priv and bb10 inventory, lay off 90% of the dead-weight to take the financial stress off the company and give them needed time and breathing space.. create a new innovative core team (like the mac devision) that understands the big picture and adopts a new corporate culture and only then launch a new amazing product that they throw everything financially behind.
    Using Apple as a possible "comeback from the grave" example is not applicable to Blackberry. Apple even today is positioned to be the clear alternative to Windows. Unix on pcs never took off which gave Apple the breathing room to get back on its feet.

    Blackberry is not in the same position in the smartphone space. it is trying to remain relevant in the smartphone space. BB10 is not the clear alternative to IOS and Android. Since there is also windows phone, os, taizen, sailfish etc.... vying for that title and market position as well.
    03-02-16 10:35 AM
  22. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I agreed with everything you said until that point .
    The CEOs job is to make the company make a dent in the universe, and deliver a product that the customers didn't even know they wanted, while being profitable.
    And if Chen can't do it he should get out of the drivers seat.
    I think that's what he is working on.... most of us just aren't the customer he is after.


    That Prem Watsa and the rest of the Board have left Chen alone... is a good indication that they don't see another path for BlackBerry.
    03-02-16 11:09 AM
  23. AbhiDarbey's Avatar
    Dear BlackBerry...please listen to your loyal customers-img_20160302_215647.png

    One Plus, 2 years 3 dirt cheap phones. (one plus one, one plus 2, one plus x)

    Still up in revenue ($300) and profit.

    So if one plus can produce a very good cheap sub $400 smartphone....its is pretty easy for BlackBerry to produce a $500-$550 smartphone (considering higher cost of employees in north america).

    Posted via CB10
    03-02-16 11:36 AM
  24. AbhiDarbey's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

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    One Plus, 2 years 3 dirt cheap phones. (one plus one, one plus 2, one plus x)

    Still up in revenue ($300) and profit.

    So if one plus can produce a very good cheap sub $400 smartphone....its is pretty easy for BlackBerry to produce a $500-$550 smartphone (considering higher cost of employees in north america).

    Posted via CB10
    Edit....revenue $300 million

    Posted via CB10
    03-02-16 11:38 AM
  25. ravencore's Avatar
    I think that's what he is working on.... most of us just aren't the customer he is after.


    That Prem Watsa and the rest of the Board have left Chen alone... is a good indication that they don't see another path for BlackBerry.
    You might be right but I personally think that (1) Boards are perpetually short sighted - they will go for short term profit even if it means long term destruction for the company, when the opposite path is usually better for both shareholders and customers alike as far as long term profitability goes.
    and
    (2) I generally think companies that embrace enterprise only models, like BlackBerry is currently doing, is a slow path to obscurity. Enterprise seems like easy money, but without a consumer push the enterprise customers will eventually dry up too.
    IBM was unstoppable when they had a consumer focus but now hardly a blimp on the social radar - they also went for the easy enterprise business.
    I see Microsoft making the same mistake now too.
    03-02-16 11:47 AM
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