1. mrfreetruth's Avatar
    CNET Article - August 22, 2012 -- 10:15 PDT
    ZDnet Article - August 22, 2012 -- 10:52 PDT

    That means that the latest article says that BES10 will not need 2 servers.



    btw all of this confusion is not RIM's fault. It's BGR's.
    1. BGR rehashes old info with new slanted spin claiming the end of BES
    2. RIM denies report.
    3. People questions RIM's denial
    4. RIM releases statment saying BES10 will be out Jan 2013 & will support all BB Phones.
    5. BGR claims RIM is lying & that BES10 will require 2 servers. 1 running BES10 & 1 running BES5.x
    6. ZDnet contacts RIM, who confirm BB10 will not require 2 servers.
    7. BGR Continues to claim that RIM is lying
    The bashers on this thread continue to post misinformatoin on purpose as that is their goal as well as BGR. Why crackberry allows these obvious bashers to hijack crackberry is troubling.
    08-22-12 08:24 PM
  2. cynicalreader's Avatar
    The bashers on this thread continue to post misinformatoin on purpose as that is their goal as well as BGR. Why crackberry allows these obvious bashers to hijack crackberry is troubling.
    Just for clarity's sake, which do you believe to be the misinformation -
    That BES10 by itself will support all current and future BB10 devices or
    You will need BES 5 to support the current devices and BES10 to support future BB10
    08-22-12 08:30 PM
  3. ccbs's Avatar
    At this point RIM should come out and clarify the upgrade path for BES users and the pricing structure. Cost basis needs to be well understood before any migration can be planned.
    08-22-12 08:46 PM
  4. morlock_man's Avatar
    Is this seriously being questioned?

    BES 10 will offer support for Android and iOS devices as well, why wouldn't they offer support for their own legacy platform?

    Way blown out of proportion. BGR are being ad-wh0res just trying to stir up controversy and generate traffic revenue.
    08-22-12 09:00 PM
  5. JasW's Avatar
    The bashers on this thread continue to post misinformatoin on purpose as that is their goal as well as BGR. Why crackberry allows these obvious bashers to hijack crackberry is troubling.
    I think a better question is why is it the newbies on CB who always go into high dudgeon mode whenever someone says anything the least bit critical of RIM. Frankly, I find these kinds of comments about "bashers" and "iBGR" inane and even childish. If you know someone is wrong on the facts, point out the correct facts; if you disagree with their opinion, try and rationally explain your disagreement. Just don't take up space whining and spinning absurd conspiracy theories about people's goals, agendas, or ulterior motives.

    No one knows what exactly is going on, so there is no way to tell what is and is not misinformation at this point. The only thing that's clear is that RIM needs to clear this up pronto. There are far too many IT department heads out there who have already all but given up on RIM.
    Blacklatino likes this.
    08-22-12 09:13 PM
  6. trsbbs's Avatar
    Is this seriously being questioned?

    BES 10 will offer support for Android and iOS devices as well, why wouldn't they offer support for their own legacy platform?

    Way blown out of proportion. BGR are being ad-wh0res just trying to stir up controversy and generate traffic revenue.

    Not on the same server. That is the issue. That they have never got QNX to run well with the legacy backend.

    Thus new backend for BB10 and it is able to work along with the legacy enterprise system for older RIM products.

    They should of coughed up this hairball months ago. They have known this for sometime now.

    But the upgrade path now sounds more honest and workable.

    Tim

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9850
    08-22-12 09:15 PM
  7. GTiLeo's Avatar
    BES10 would not onl;y be goof for BB10 but it would be a pretty good BYOD serice also, with BES securities on other platforms. there is a possibility that RIM is trying to make a bit of extra money tryign to sell a different server along with their existion one but i na way it works itself out and can network any iOS or android along with BB10 devices that the companies employees might be using.

    the way i see it is its still a benefit to the enterprise either way you look at it. the onyl thing you might have to ask is will companies want to drop their current BOYD servers to incorperate BES 10
    08-22-12 09:15 PM
  8. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    MEh, carve a little space out on the SAN, create another VM server. Our current BES uses less than 100GB.

    ANd for companies that have not yet allowed BYOD and don't have an investment in MDM yet outside of BES, the BES 10 solution sounds pretty good and it's backed by the best name in security... Even adding another server if needed is not much different than adding one to run your other choice of MDM.
    pcguy514 likes this.
    08-22-12 09:24 PM
  9. Frank Castle's Avatar
    This is why you don't drink at Blackberry World

    Didn't RIM have countless sessions to discuss Fusion? We already have a DEV Fusion with BDS / UDS installed for a couple months now and while it's still needs work, it's better than the bulk of other MDM's on the market. (and way cheaper)

    The thing is BES 5 is the gold standard all other MDM's are compared to, it's so robust Gartner doesn't even vet it against the new MDM's as it would show how limited they are. The space is frankly immature (BES is 10+ years old) and everything single vendor, including RIM are limited by the API hooks Apple and Android provide. The only chance of every getting that level of control again would be with BB10.

    We've been running Good for 2 years, it's painful. The CAL cost is criminal, the NOC has frequent outages, the UI is basic, major features are missing (some Apple's issue), users with large mailboxes require a App delete and reinstall / activate about once a month. Added functionality now requires a seperate server and not just another CAL but a CAL per APP you want to secure?! You're looking at $200+ per user/device. Do the scale on that for 500+ users.

    RIM has taken a beating, no doubt. BYOD threw them for a loop. Two things hold hope for RIM.

    1. Not every company is keen on BYOD, some frankly will never allow it.
    2. BYOD has issues of it's own.

    As noted we initially brought in Good due to demand and BYOD as we like the container approach. Users however HATE it. They want our data in all these little Apps to use as they wish. I wish I could send the hate mail we get, we've had a number beg for a Blackberry back and now that we refreshed all devices to the 9900 series there are ZERO complaints about Blackberry. Good is secure, I'll give them that. Good's been tossed around by every company the last 10 years. We had the G100 years ago and the Good server seems to be the same code from back then just hacked together with new features. Someone posted about RIM's enterprise data need and while that is true it's also not the whole story.

    1. Install Blackberry Server Express and users can use any data plan they wish, yes it's another server but we threw everything into VM years ago so one more server is nothing. There is no server or CAL cost so your cost to provide this is minimal.

    2. Verizon DOES require an enterprise data plan when using Good on Android. This alone has pretty much stopped Android adoption dead at our company. Good and Verizon have been "working on it" for over a year now. Their no dummies though, it's a revenue stream. The kicker is this is sticking it to our BYOD Android users as their actually seeing a data plan increase if they want to use their device. We don't stipend as we provide a fully paid Blackberry (with any features they require) so their want is not our need.

    Fusion is a stop gate, what BGR and others are picking up on is the next verison of BES (NG) which will likely launch at next Blackberry World (if there is one). This will mesh all the new components into one BES (to rule them all). It would be nice to include BES 5.0.X support but our BES will be humming along until the last user moves to something else or we pull the plug. What you will be able to do is use the management console to control all your environments from one console so no need for a BAS for each. This will be a HUGE benefit for support staff as currently they need to manage devices from BES, BESX, Good etc.

    Side note - I've been trending RIM / Good metrics internally for the past year and while our RIM base is growing smaller it's not as much as management thought and some months we actually add more BB users than Good. We'll see how iPhone 5 impacts this but the big thing are people are locked into 2 year contracts and most only get a device at that point, RIM needs a competitve device.

    Unsure if I'm a old fuddy duddy but I have access to a host of device (9930, iPhone 4S, Samsung SIII, Windows 7.5 etc.) and Blackberry is my daily driver. I'm most productive on a Blackberry, it also have the deepest exchange intergration, has a VPN tunnel into the network not to mention it is a solid PHONE. All the other devices are really App devices at this point.
    08-22-12 10:29 PM
  10. diegonei's Avatar
    ? I would think it matters a lot whether you have to buy and maintain one versus two pieces of software, irrespective of whether it can run on one physical box.
    Well, like I said, I hate to agree with BGR on the general idea that you'll need two servers, but it's still a lot of hooey, since that does not mean extra costs or extra hardware (BES 5 clients will be able to get Mobile Fusion free, so said the good Sith) - just install Mobile Fusion on the same server you already run your BES system.

    If you already have BES running, getting Mobile Fusion would be the logical next step: You'd have all your Berries covered, and would be able to properly manage any BYOD that comes around.
    08-22-12 10:58 PM
  11. higherdestiny's Avatar
    As people have already pointed out.

    The new version of BES is called Mobile Fusion.

    BES 4 -> BES 5 -> Mobile Fusion.

    Because Mobile Fusion is in it's infancy, it currently has limited support and functionality including the current lack of support for legacy devices.

    Rumour is that RIM are working hard to incorporate all these aspects into a single version of Mobile Fusion.

    Currently Mobile Fusion Studio must run on a separate server to BDS and UDS. Rumours are that these will all merge.

    BDS currently supports BB10 and PlayBook. Rumours again are that BDS will be transformed into "BES10" which supports BB10 plus legacy devices.

    Already the wheels are in motion. BES can plug into Mobile Fusion studio. It's common sense that they'll breed BES and BDS together into one beast.

    You'll find the successor to BES will be a beefed up version of Mobile Fusion that incorporates BES functionality within and doesn't require any addition server hardware beyond the existing BES5 requirements.

    Don't stress people. RIM is working hard and they are thinking smart. BES will live on - bigger, better and more equipped.
    08-23-12 12:03 AM
  12. cynicalreader's Avatar
    Don't stress people. RIM is working hard and they are thinking smart. BES will live on - bigger, better and more equipped.
    The concern was simply that any company that intends to keep some legacy devices and get into the new ones will have to (it now appears) maintain its old BES 5 infrastructure and also buy and maintain BES10. From a hardware perspective, depending on the current HW, new SW might run on existing HW. From a software perspective, it's just more cost, management and maintenance. Would have been simpler and cheaper to have one do-it-all BES.
    08-23-12 06:04 AM
  13. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    The concern was simply that any company that intends to keep some legacy devices and get into the new ones will have to (it now appears) maintain its old BES 5 infrastructure and also buy and maintain BES10. From a hardware perspective, depending on the current HW, new SW might run on existing HW. From a software perspective, it's just more cost, management and maintenance. Would have been simpler and cheaper to have one do-it-all BES.

    If you end up going the BES5/MF route, it will likely be a simple in place upgrade to BES10. BES10 will be BDS/BES combined. Not entirely sure why this wasnt done in the first place, but that is what it is. Likely RIM will do what they did for BES 4 > 5 and offer as a free upgrade.
    Last edited by Sith_Apprentice; 08-23-12 at 06:27 AM.
    08-23-12 06:23 AM
  14. JasW's Avatar
    If you end up going the BES5/MF route, it will likely be a simple in place upgrade to BES10. BES10 will be BDS/BES combined. Not entirely sure why this wasnt done in the first place, but that is what it is. Likely RIM will do what they did for BES 4 > 5 and offer as a free upgrade.
    It might be better if someone from RIM came out and declared as much without equivocation. As it is, the BGR article, the CNET "source at RIM" response article, and subsequent and seemingly contradictory updates to that response yesterday have only muddied the waters further.

    If it truly is just an upgrade to BES 5, then it would seem a no-brainer for most CIOs/IT heads. But you still have to convince them to upgrade, and if they already have Good supporting non-BB devices and there is no demand for BB10 devices, what's their motivation even assuming it is a free upgrade? And forget it if it actually turns out to be an additional server, either software or hardware. At best, most IT heads will take a wait and see approach -- and RIM probably can't afford that waiting time.
    westcoastit likes this.
    08-23-12 06:37 AM
  15. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    It might be better if someone from RIM came out and declared as much without equivocation. As it is, the BGR article, the CNET "source at RIM" response article, and subsequent and seemingly contradictory updates to that response yesterday have only muddied the waters further.

    If it truly is just an upgrade to BES 5, then it would seem a no-brainer for most CIOs/IT heads. But you still have to convince them to upgrade, and if they already have Good supporting non-BB devices and there is no demand for BB10 devices, what's their motivation even assuming it is a free upgrade? And forget it if it actually turns out to be an additional server, either software or hardware. At best, most IT heads will take a wait and see approach -- and RIM probably can't afford that waiting time.
    You are very correct that RIM needs to address this. As is they are just getting BDS to support wireless activations. I believe that is likely the last step in the stand alone server, as it now has most of the same functionality as BES. As it is a web console (BDS and BES both are) there is no real reason that it cannot be used for both, and I believe we will see them quickly being merged. The major updates will be behind the scenes as redundant services etc will be removed.

    I have long told RIM to be proactive in these things, when they have a beta product available announce that it is in testing (even if in closed beta). Their enterprise/government customers are kept in the know, but allowing consumers to stay in the dark can always come back and bite them.
    08-23-12 06:41 AM
  16. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    It might be better if someone from RIM came out and declared as much without equivocation. As it is, the BGR article, the CNET "source at RIM" response article, and subsequent and seemingly contradictory updates to that response yesterday have only muddied the waters further.

    If it truly is just an upgrade to BES 5, then it would seem a no-brainer for most CIOs/IT heads. But you still have to convince them to upgrade, and if they already have Good supporting non-BB devices and there is no demand for BB10 devices, what's their motivation even assuming it is a free upgrade? And forget it if it actually turns out to be an additional server, either software or hardware. At best, most IT heads will take a wait and see approach -- and RIM probably can't afford that waiting time.

    Their motivation to install BES10, which most certainly will be a Free upgrade from BES5 as Mobile Fusion was given free as well, MDM software can be given free because it generates CAL's BES10 especially since it will generate the CAL's that are currently going to other providers.
    If you listen to a few of the admins here that talk about using Good Technology they all say how much more expensive per CAL the device is to Run, that is a motivation for CIO's and IT heads to make the upgrade,
    Though in my mind anyone managing 500+ devices would keep their legacy BES5 server going and launch BES10 as it's own server then spend the next 6 months migrating batches of BB's over to reduce any risk of down time,
    The wait and see approach will be for sure! But any company that is managing large amounts of devices, the RIM major targets, will have test infrastructure in place like when Exchange gets an update you see Enterpise users taking a wait and see approach, except they also started testing it with a Beta release and they move users to the system to test while maintaining legacy until they've proven that the new software is ready.

    MY fear with BES10 currently is people like @Frank Castle up there aren't mentioning any beta testing with it, just talking BES/MF, and that Frank had said HE would expect BES10 at BlackBerry World.. which would come after BB10 launched. RIM is cutting the time BES Admins have to properly test and deploy BES10, that could hurt when public adoption actually happens
    08-23-12 06:54 AM
  17. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Their motivation to install BES10, which most certainly will be a Free upgrade from BES5 as Mobile Fusion was given free as well, MDM software can be given free because it generates CAL's BES10 especially since it will generate the CAL's that are currently going to other providers.
    If you listen to a few of the admins here that talk about using Good Technology they all say how much more expensive per CAL the device is to Run, that is a motivation for CIO's and IT heads to make the upgrade,
    Though in my mind anyone managing 500+ devices would keep their legacy BES5 server going and launch BES10 as it's own server then spend the next 6 months migrating batches of BB's over to reduce any risk of down time,
    The wait and see approach will be for sure! But any company that is managing large amounts of devices, the RIM major targets, will have test infrastructure in place like when Exchange gets an update you see Enterpise users taking a wait and see approach, except they also started testing it with a Beta release and they move users to the system to test while maintaining legacy until they've proven that the new software is ready.

    MY fear with BES10 currently is people like @Frank Castle up there aren't mentioning any beta testing with it, just talking BES/MF, and that Frank had said HE would expect BES10 at BlackBerry World.. which would come after BB10 launched. RIM is cutting the time BES Admins have to properly test and deploy BES10, that could hurt when public adoption actually happens
    RIMs beta program is kept very secret, and most people never know that there are many many companies involved in testing for months before a product is released. BES 5 was tested for half a year before it made it to production, and BES 10 will likely see its beta test start soon.

    Enterprise customers are RIMs main test audience, and they are the ones that find most of the bugs, check out the security etc. AFTER release is when government agencies start their own approval process, which is why they tend to lag behind.
    08-23-12 06:57 AM
  18. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    If you end up going the BES5/MF route, it will likely be a simple in place upgrade to BES10. BES10 will be BDS/BES combined. Not entirely sure why this wasnt done in the first place, but that is what it is. Likely RIM will do what they did for BES 4 > 5 and offer as a free upgrade.
    I think they didn't do it in the first place because Mobile Fusion was a purchased MDM product that they went to work on, it was faster to get it to market and get some playbook management by releasing it as a stand alone while they went to work on BES10, to integrate, Mobile fusion is a patch product like sticking gum in a dam crack to slow a leak waiting for the concrete mixer to show.
    08-23-12 07:47 AM
  19. manofice1's Avatar
    This is why you don't drink at Blackberry World

    Didn't RIM have countless sessions to discuss Fusion? We already have a DEV Fusion with BDS / UDS installed for a couple months now and while it's still needs work, it's better than the bulk of other MDM's on the market. (and way cheaper)

    The thing is BES 5 is the gold standard all other MDM's are compared to, it's so robust Gartner doesn't even vet it against the new MDM's as it would show how limited they are. The space is frankly immature (BES is 10+ years old) and everything single vendor, including RIM are limited by the API hooks Apple and Android provide. The only chance of every getting that level of control again would be with BB10.

    We've been running Good for 2 years, it's painful. The CAL cost is criminal, the NOC has frequent outages, the UI is basic, major features are missing (some Apple's issue), users with large mailboxes require a App delete and reinstall / activate about once a month. Added functionality now requires a seperate server and not just another CAL but a CAL per APP you want to secure?! You're looking at $200+ per user/device. Do the scale on that for 500+ users.

    RIM has taken a beating, no doubt. BYOD threw them for a loop. Two things hold hope for RIM.

    1. Not every company is keen on BYOD, some frankly will never allow it.
    2. BYOD has issues of it's own.

    As noted we initially brought in Good due to demand and BYOD as we like the container approach. Users however HATE it. They want our data in all these little Apps to use as they wish. I wish I could send the hate mail we get, we've had a number beg for a Blackberry back and now that we refreshed all devices to the 9900 series there are ZERO complaints about Blackberry. Good is secure, I'll give them that. Good's been tossed around by every company the last 10 years. We had the G100 years ago and the Good server seems to be the same code from back then just hacked together with new features. Someone posted about RIM's enterprise data need and while that is true it's also not the whole story.

    1. Install Blackberry Server Express and users can use any data plan they wish, yes it's another server but we threw everything into VM years ago so one more server is nothing. There is no server or CAL cost so your cost to provide this is minimal.

    2. Verizon DOES require an enterprise data plan when using Good on Android. This alone has pretty much stopped Android adoption dead at our company. Good and Verizon have been "working on it" for over a year now. Their no dummies though, it's a revenue stream. The kicker is this is sticking it to our BYOD Android users as their actually seeing a data plan increase if they want to use their device. We don't stipend as we provide a fully paid Blackberry (with any features they require) so their want is not our need.

    Fusion is a stop gate, what BGR and others are picking up on is the next verison of BES (NG) which will likely launch at next Blackberry World (if there is one). This will mesh all the new components into one BES (to rule them all). It would be nice to include BES 5.0.X support but our BES will be humming along until the last user moves to something else or we pull the plug. What you will be able to do is use the management console to control all your environments from one console so no need for a BAS for each. This will be a HUGE benefit for support staff as currently they need to manage devices from BES, BESX, Good etc.

    Side note - I've been trending RIM / Good metrics internally for the past year and while our RIM base is growing smaller it's not as much as management thought and some months we actually add more BB users than Good. We'll see how iPhone 5 impacts this but the big thing are people are locked into 2 year contracts and most only get a device at that point, RIM needs a competitve device.

    Unsure if I'm a old fuddy duddy but I have access to a host of device (9930, iPhone 4S, Samsung SIII, Windows 7.5 etc.) and Blackberry is my daily driver. I'm most productive on a Blackberry, it also have the deepest exchange intergration, has a VPN tunnel into the network not to mention it is a solid PHONE. All the other devices are really App devices at this point.
    Sup jeff! good post, send me a email sometime!
    08-23-12 07:57 AM
  20. shri.mehta's Avatar
    "@BGR: RIM confirms BES 10 will not support existing BlackBerry phones without BES 5 BES 10: BlackBerry 7 support not included, must run BES 5 as well by @boygenius"


    Posted from Crackberry.com App for Android
    08-23-12 07:59 AM
  21. PowderJockey's Avatar
    08-23-12 08:08 AM
  22. gregorylkelly's Avatar
    Can't RIM offer current BES customers Mobile Fusion for free to allow them to support BB10 phones as well as BB7 phones? This to me seems like an obvious solution to this problem, but I must be missing something here that would make this harder than it seems...
    08-23-12 09:59 AM
  23. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Can't RIM offer current BES customers Mobile Fusion for free to allow them to support BB10 phones as well as BB7 phones? This to me seems like an obvious solution to this problem, but I must be missing something here that would make this harder than it seems...

    Mobile Fusion is free to anyone. the CALs cost, but its no different than buying a BES CAL. I wish they would listen to suggestions and allow BES CALs to transfer over to BDS.
    OniBerry and diegonei like this.
    08-23-12 10:00 AM
  24. njblackberry's Avatar
    Clear as mud. RIM is not getting the message out clearly. Business customers hate uncertainty. Markets hate uncertainty.
    Sith_Apprentice and OniBerry like this.
    08-23-12 10:06 AM
  25. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    I imagine RIM will make their usual press release, but they need to do more. They need a uniform message to go out through all of their reps to all of the businesses and agencies.
    08-23-12 10:12 AM
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