06-17-16 05:15 PM
133 12345 ...
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  1. ADGrant's Avatar
    It is also much easier for the app developers to get squeezed and exploited if they have only two customers to sell to, instead of 4 or 10.
    It works both ways.
    App developers were never in control and they don't count. They are mere puppets in Google and Apple's strings. They get whatever Google and Apple allow them to get.
    You clearly no nothing about the economics of software development. App developers sell (or give away) to smartphone users, not Apple or Google. There are a lot of smartphone users out there and they are almost all using Android or iOS. Interestingly, even though Android has most of the market, it can actually be more profitable to develop for iOS due to less platform fragmentation and less piracy (it is very easy to steal Android apps).

    Microsoft clearly doesn't agree that App developers don't count. They are now supporting iOS and Android development from their Visual Studio IDE because they want App developers using MS tools.
    05-24-16 06:28 AM
  2. mirowpl's Avatar
    i think the piece of this everyone is missing is the change in the USA of customers having to pay for their smart phones now. No more subsidizing by the carriers. This in itself will slow down the growth. tell me how the average two income family in the USA can continue to shell out 700 bucks every two or three years for a new smart phone. heck there was an article on USA Today this weekend talking about over 60% of the USA familie dont even have enough reserves to cover a $1,000 emergency. Even with the monthly payment plans, the overall costs are too high. thus the lower end phones is where the action is and that does not help Apple. I have 2 boys in their 20's. they both are done with smart phones, snap chat, facebook etc etc. they want to disconnect. they want a good basic phone with texting and talking, as they all have other forms (ipad or such) to send emails, share photos and such. Point is this is the piece of the market that I do not believe the phone companies are listening to.
    05-24-16 07:55 AM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    It is also much easier for the app developers to get squeezed and exploited if they have only two customers to sell to, instead of 4 or 10.
    It works both ways.
    App developers were never in control and they don't count. They are mere puppets in Google and Apple's strings. They get whatever Google and Apple allow them to get.
    That may be true for game developers, but in general most apps are free. What Apple and Google have given us is a world where there are hundreds of millions of customers who can run our software on the devices that they carry around every single day. That's a lot of value, and it has nothing to do with app store revenue share.

    What would have made WP and BB10 valuable to us is if either had enabled apps that we can't already build on iOS and Android. Then that would have pushed Apple and Google to add more APIs to their SDKs and then you can then see the value of 3-4 different ecosystems. Apple and Google push each other already in their SDKs. I don't see Microsoft really doing that. They make it easier to make apps with better tools and their cross platform capability, but they don't allow us to make new apps with new capabilities that we haven't already made for iOS and Android.

    Apple, in 2008, had very few users for us. However, they let us make apps that were years ahead of what we could do on the other platforms in 2008. If Microsoft or BlackBerry were able to do that, then the number of users would be less of an issue. Developers would still flock to the platform. This is why Apple didn't have the chicken and egg problem with apps and developers.
    TGR1, DonHB, Ernest Xiang and 2 others like this.
    05-24-16 09:12 AM
  4. app_Developer's Avatar
    There are now 7billion phones in the world, more than people.
    This number was given today in the plenary talk at the International Microwave Symposium by "the father of the smartphone" Dr. Martin Cooper.

    The title of his talk was: "the Birth and Death of the Smartphone".

    The market is saturated, just like the laptop, PC and TV markets before it.
    There will no longer be double-digit exponential growth as in the past 20 years. It will be very slow growth, if any, from now on. That's what a saturated market is.
    The automotive market is saturated and has experienced low-digit growth for over 50 years.
    I agree completely, and this is why I"m less optimistic about Apple's future than some. They rode this wave with computers. They rode it again with music players. Not they've ridden it with phones. Maybe they will ride it again with electric hyperconnected cars. Maybe.

    If they don't find the next big thing, then I think this marks the beginning of a long slow decline of Apple. Of course, the decline will take much longer to play out than with BB, given the strength of their brand and the strength of their balance sheet.
    05-24-16 09:17 AM
  5. Carrtman's Avatar
    Apple still has other things to fall back on and a massive amount of money in their bank accounts they aren't going anywhere.

    Apple survived the toughest outlines in the early 2000s and came back with a bang.

    It's like Microsoft those two are so big they can survive a few flips without really blinking an eye, that's market and economic power especially in the notebook world. People can say a MBP is expensive or the SP 4 is overpriced but at the end of the day they make a lot of cash with those products BB doesn't have that.

    Sure, Apple will never be able to replace the genius known as Jobs but they had a fanbase that trusts them so Apple will continue to do well. They have been in the business since the 1970s so yeah.

    Nobody knows what the next big thing will be I think VR has a chance to become something in the future so I fully expect MS and Apple on that bandwagon
    05-24-16 09:27 AM
  6. mirowpl's Avatar
    in 1997 Apple borrowed $150 million from...........MICROSOFT.......
    bh7171 and web99 like this.
    05-24-16 02:21 PM
  7. bh7171's Avatar
    Off the top of my head (and just to name a few)...

    Capacitive touch input. While it had always been theoretically possible, Apple was the first to make it work efficiently. Even before smartphones, they made it work with the iPod's capactive dial when everybody else was still using resistance and/or pressure input. This single achievement changed the mobile industry by orders of magnitude.

    Siri was no small accomplishment.

    Multi-Touch and gestures. You think BB created those? Nope. Apple was the first to it. All other smartphone platforms merely echoed or evolved from what Apple did.

    Has Apple innovated much since the iPhone 4? Maybe not so much. But you can't make a blanket statement insinuating that Apple hasn't innovated or improved upon other products. They have. Lately not so much. But they're actively playing the game.

    There's no love lost between me and Apple. I have my own personal reasons for not supporting their products in any way, but that's all on me. I can recognize when Apple has done something well.
    They bought Siri. Apple is going to be in a very difficult position with profits decreasing a saturated US and difficulty in China and India. The iPhone, their bread and butter, is no longer better. Just more expensive

    The White Knight-BlackBerry Passport
    05-24-16 02:28 PM
  8. bh7171's Avatar
    in 1997 Apple borrowed $150 million from...........MICROSOFT.......
    Thank you. Apple could not even make payroll at that time. It had been poorly managed and run into the ground.

    The White Knight-BlackBerry Passport
    05-24-16 02:33 PM
  9. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    There are now 7billion phones in the world, more than people.
    This number was given today in the plenary talk at the International Microwave Symposium by "the father of the smartphone" Dr. Martin Cooper.

    The title of his talk was: "the Birth and Death of the Smartphone".

    The market is saturated, just like the laptop, PC and TV markets before it.
    There will no longer be double-digit exponential growth as in the past 20 years. It will be very slow growth, if any, from now on. That's what a saturated market is.
    The automotive market is saturated and has experienced low-digit growth for over 50 years.
    Where do you get your numbers from? The world population is approximately 7.125 Billion. The total number of active Smartphones is 2.1 Billion. By those numbers, at best 1/3rd of the population actively owns and uses smartphones (which is in line with what all the tech sites that look into it are reporting). How you came up with 7 billion smartphones is just wrong. Google/Android just pushed past 1.5 billion active smartphones mid-2015, and they have a huge lion's share of the total smartphone market worldwide. Get your numbers right.

    And since when is the latop, PC, and TV markets saturated? They're still a huge thriving market that sells obscene numbers every year. Not to mention the Automotive market that has seen new growth worldwide in the past 4 years.

    You're manufacturing numbers (outrageous numbers) to suit your beliefs. If I'm wrong... kindly provide data to back up your hypothesis. Because the actual numbers significantly dispute your claims.
    Last edited by DenverRalphy; 05-24-16 at 04:58 PM.
    05-24-16 02:52 PM
  10. Carjackd's Avatar
    Good article, hard to predict the next big thing, but apple keeps pushing out the same thing over and over...its getting tiresome. Someone is really gunna have to knock it out of the park and I don't expect to see Apple sit back and take it like the boys in Waterloo did
    05-24-16 02:55 PM
  11. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Thank you. Apple could not even make payroll at that time. It had been poorly managed and run into the ground.

    The White Knight-BlackBerry Passport
    Yeah no. That's a long standing myth that simply isn't true. Yes, Apple's value had dropped significantly, but they weren't broke by any means (their value was just severely diminished). They still had plenty of money.

    The whole $150 million from Microsoft to Apple was little more than a cross licensing deal between Apple and Microsoft, where Apple's perceived rate of value from the deal was $150 million. Microsoft also received benefits similar in monetary value. It basically came down to settling a nasty string of litigation between both companies where they both decided to settle. Apple just greased Microsoft a bit more if Bill Gates would make his infamous on-screen appearance to promote Apple.

    The settlement didn't bail out Apple. It just brought an ugly legal battle to a close.
    05-24-16 03:11 PM
  12. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    They bought Siri. Apple is going to be in a very difficult position with profits decreasing a saturated US and difficulty in China and India. The iPhone, their bread and butter, is no longer better. Just more expensive

    The White Knight-BlackBerry Passport
    Sure they bought Siri. But they also had to work to incorporate it into their OS. It's not as simple as simply dropping it into the OS and let it do it's work. They bought a reliable voice recognition system. But then they still had to build an infrastsructure that could intelligently parse and work with that system.

    Every time Apple has ONE quarter where they see decreased sales, everybody pounces on it. But ignores the point that the other 3 quarters still breaks their own personal records and are doing just fine. Apple has yet to see one year over year report where they dipped. One quarter maybe. But year over year is significantly more important than that one quarter.

    This same speculation has popped up once every year for the past 4 years when in one quarter they fall short (and it's typically always the same quarter). Yet come the end of the fiscal year, Apple still comes out on top.
    05-24-16 03:18 PM
  13. anon(55900)'s Avatar
    Thought this was an interesting read. Enjoy! Why Apple could turn into BlackBerry - Business Insider
    Every one's thoughts when Steve Jobs died was, there goes the heart and soul, Steve was supposed to have left many concepts for Apple to work on but, phones and OS are basically generic now. Unless something major happens to change phones, most iphone users will stay there and most android users can at least move around to the few major phone builders for some relief from shear utter boredom. One massive investor already abandoned Apple Stock but another pick some up. Apple users going back to their computers are a different bread and determined to stay I think. Ubuntu could be interesting but they never can get out of the starting gate. Their OS is very interesting to me but they simply cannot get past, hey gang,, here is a cool OS see if you can do anything with it, bye and good luck. I often thought those running it have taken advantage of the initial investor by putting out just enough to keep their jobs safe but never getting anything accomplished. Some are working on trying to get ubuntu functional on about 8 phones but probably by the time that gets done those phones will be so obsolete!
    MS in 2017 is targeting the release of a Surface Pro phone with separate keyboard in a 6 inch size, it is cute, a baby Surface Pro, aww I want to cuddle it! Me, I seriously cannot see blackberry ever becoming relevant again. Nobody knows it is still around, nobody! I love Priv but hate Android. But if there was a Passport/Android vs Priv/Android I'd go with the PP/A. If there was a Priv on BB10, I still might stay with Passport. So, can Apple go the way of Blackberry, anything is possible, Apple almost died once before when Steve was forced out. Steve saved Apple but Steve is gone forever and many stock holders hold fear that without Steve, Apple cannot last long term. In the phone area three years is not a long time, look how quickly BB feel off the gotta have list!! Then again, like the relationship that was between MS and Apple. MS needed Apple and vice versa, perhaps Google Android needs Apple to at least be forced to compete by adding the must haves that Apple pushes out like finger print scanner?!?! Which benefits the buyers, heaven forbid it every gets to the point that Android has no competition!
    05-24-16 04:34 PM
  14. DJ BigToe's Avatar
    Yes. They continue to make the same thing every year, constantly behind in hardware, refusing to change with the times. Thinking their iPhone loyalists will always stand in line to throw money at them.

    BlackBerry did the same thing.

    Posted via CB10
    bh7171, TCB on Z10 and web99 like this.
    05-24-16 05:14 PM
  15. sorinv's Avatar
    You clearly no nothing about the economics of software development. App developers sell (or give away) to smartphone users, not Apple or Google. There are a lot of smartphone users out there and they are almost all using Android or iOS. Interestingly, even though Android has most of the market, it can actually be more profitable to develop for iOS due to less platform fragmentation and less piracy (it is very easy to steal Android apps).

    Microsoft clearly doesn't agree that App developers don't count. They are now supporting iOS and Android development from their Visual Studio IDE because they want App developers using MS tools.
    This answer is parallel to what I wrote.
    No app developer can post on Google playstore without Google's approval and without Google taking a percentage set by Google not by the app developer.

    The same goes for IoS apps and Apple.

    The app developer is for Apple and Google what the Uber driver is for Uber...

    And Uber is looking into driverless cars...
    bh7171 likes this.
    05-25-16 12:30 AM
  16. Jack Chin's Avatar
    Great posts in this thread.

    Posted via CB10
    05-25-16 04:43 AM
  17. phillyd2's Avatar
    BB10 is even more dead than Windows Mobile. There will probably be no more BB10 phones or apps for the existing phones. There will probably be some security patches released for a while though.

    It's much easier for app developers to support two platforms rather than four so this outcome was probably inevitable.
    If you are dieing of an illness you don't get any healthier just because somebody else it just as sick so I'm not sure what bringing up WM has anything to do with it. Nevertheless, when the iphone started Apple was in no way the cash monster they are now. When the iphone started there were exactly ZERO apps available.

    Will iphone be as dead as BB sometime in the future? It's entirely possible but if it happens they will need to as blind deaf and dumb to the market as our Canadian friends.

    Trust me that I take zero glee at what happened. It's all a damn shame.
    05-25-16 06:28 AM
  18. ADGrant's Avatar
    If you are dieing of an illness you don't get any healthier just because somebody else it just as sick so I'm not sure what bringing up WM has anything to do with it. Nevertheless, when the iphone started Apple was in no way the cash monster they are now. When the iphone started there were exactly ZERO apps available.

    Will iphone be as dead as BB sometime in the future? It's entirely possible but if it happens they will need to as blind deaf and dumb to the market as our Canadian friends.

    Trust me that I take zero glee at what happened. It's all a damn shame.
    If Microsoft cannot get any traction for their Smart Phone OS, how is BB supposed to. MS is a much bigger organization than BB with very deep pockets and a dominant desktop platform. They have excellent dev tools and a large number of developers are familiar with those tools?

    BB has no money and never had a significant number of developers familiar with their weak dev tools.
    JeepBB likes this.
    05-25-16 06:36 AM
  19. ADGrant's Avatar
    Yes. They continue to make the same thing every year, constantly behind in hardware, refusing to change with the times. Thinking their iPhone loyalists will always stand in line to throw money at them.

    BlackBerry did the same thing.

    Posted via CB10
    When the iPhone 5s was launched a couple of years ago it was the first smartphone with an arm64 CPU and the first with a decent fingerprint reader. The other vendors are just catching up. MS doesn't even have an arm64 version of its OS yet.
    05-25-16 06:40 AM
  20. ADGrant's Avatar
    This answer is parallel to what I wrote.
    No app developer can post on Google playstore without Google's approval and without Google taking a percentage set by Google not by the app developer.

    The same goes for IoS apps and Apple.

    The app developer is for Apple and Google what the Uber driver is for Uber...

    And Uber is looking into driverless cars...
    You know that two of the leading app developers for iOS are Microsoft and Google right. Do you think they are slaves to Apple?
    05-25-16 06:46 AM
  21. NG888's Avatar
    Apple couldnt burn through the cash stock pile they have if they tried.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    05-25-16 06:47 AM
  22. phillyd2's Avatar
    If Microsoft cannot get any traction for their Smart Phone OS, how is BB supposed to. MS is a much bigger organization than BB with very deep pockets and a dominant desktop platform. They have excellent dev tools and a large number of developers are familiar with those tools?

    BB has no money and never had a significant number of developers familiar with their weak dev tools.
    Again, Apple had no money and the market did not even know they wanted anything like the iphone. It's called vision. It's called innovation. It's called listening to the market.

    It's too late by far for BB. What we are doing here is like an autopsy of what they should have done a long time ago. And then not so long ago. And then recently.
    TgeekB and Coachbulldog like this.
    05-25-16 06:56 AM
  23. anon(55900)'s Avatar
    Yes. They continue to make the same thing every year, constantly behind in hardware, refusing to change with the times. Thinking their iPhone loyalists will always stand in line to throw money at them.

    BlackBerry did the same thing.

    Posted via CB10
    I see what ur saying but I wonder if there was other stuff going on also. If the Carrier's do not support u and that is the case in BlackBerry, there are behind the door deals in all business. Beta video was hands down the superior video but wheeling and dealing made VHS the dominant video!
    05-25-16 08:05 AM
  24. S1lv1o's Avatar
    Interesting, but misguided; in the long run everything changes but no amount of AI is going to put a dent in luxury smartphones, Apple's only problem is when all those rich people upgrade. It's as laughable as Samsung's clumsy attempts at luxury by loading their phones with bloatware.

    Apple has so much money it could simply keep doing what it's doing for a very long time, and they have a firm control over their supply chain, so it will keep being profitable. AI has a good chance of going the way of google glass, that is, nowhere, unfortunately: project number 10,465 which google will kill in a couple of years.
    05-25-16 09:14 AM
  25. Carjackd's Avatar
    The one thing you have to always keep in mind is the US is the biggest free market in the world and Americans love to make super stars and super star companies. As much as they enjoy creating superstars...they get greater enjoyment bring them down.

    957, 5810, 6710, 7100, 8700, 8100, 8310, 8700, 8800, 9000, 9700, 9800, 9900, Z10, Z30, Passport, P9982, Priv
    Gallofa likes this.
    05-25-16 09:20 AM
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