12-17-16 01:14 PM
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  1. eshropshire's Avatar
    Thank you for this!
    This is exactly what I meant - I will swollow that 'dead' pill if they would speak clear words.
    But how they handle OS10 users is too arrogant and just wrong!

    But they clearly keep selling OS10 devices to consumers and clearly shouting that they offer full commitment and telling us we don't listen.


    Posted via CB10
    I fully agree with you. The statements in this document are very poor marketing speak at best. Today we are in mid December 2.5 months after BlackBerry announced they were no getting out of creating their own phones. This strategy had to have been planned for months before the announcement, yet in that time only one OEM has come forward to license the BlackBerry name, and that company is in Indonesia.

    Not one OEM has come forward to announce they are licensing BlackBerry Android or BB10. You don't need to have a product ready for market to announce a licensing deal. Companies make announcements all the time when licensing deals are signed. I have personally been involved with many such deals over the years.
    Slash82 likes this.
    12-15-16 06:48 PM
  2. Nikola Stojic's Avatar
    The fact is, BlackBerry delivered what they promised for BB10. You are upset they are unwilling to do more for an OS that did not succeed. Fine.

    BlackBerry is not going to unlock their bootloader. Plus a BlackBerry device is hardware coded to only accept software signed by BlackBerry. They won't unravel all that so you can play with it.
    HP had debacle with their tablet. They've allowed people to unlock it. Plain and simple. I really wonder about that hardware coding and what extent really is.
    What we as PlayBook users got: Nothing *crickets in background
    What HP users got: Operating system
    webOS 3.0 to 3.0.5
    Android 2.3 to 7.0 (unofficial)
    Ubuntu (unofficial)
    BlackBerry wanted to be both consumer and enterprise company but with the mind on just enterprise. That didn't worked out.

    Above is something we won't ever have because: BlackBerry reasoning.
    Slash82 likes this.
    12-15-16 07:26 PM
  3. fatclue_98's Avatar
    HP had debacle with their tablet. They've allowed people to unlock it. Plain and simple. I really wonder about that hardware coding and what extent really is.
    What we as PlayBook users got: Nothing *crickets in background
    What HP users got: Operating system
    webOS 3.0 to 3.0.5
    Android 2.3 to 7.0 (unofficial)
    Ubuntu (unofficial)
    BlackBerry wanted to be both consumer and enterprise company but with the mind on just enterprise. That didn't worked out.
    You're using a horrible example. Since webOS is Linux-based it's by nature already "open-sourced". The core of webOS is Mojo, which is NOT open. webOS 2.0 uses the Enyo framework which is, wait for it, NOT open either. Have a peek at WebOS Ports and take a look at what's going on. The first thing you'll find is that without Enyo, LuneOS is barely an Alpha project.

    I too use my PlayBook every now and then. It still does the same things it did the day I bought it. Frankly, I have no idea what you think you're entitled to. Maybe that's the problem, your generation thinks the world owes them something.

    Posted via CB10 From My Passport SE aka The Last Emperor
    stlabrat likes this.
    12-15-16 07:40 PM
  4. Nikola Stojic's Avatar
    You're using a horrible example. Since webOS is Linux-based it's by nature already "open-sourced". The core of webOS is Mojo, which is NOT open. webOS 2.0 uses the Enyo framework which is, wait for it, NOT open either. Have a peek at WebOS Ports and take a look at what's going on. The first thing you'll find is that without Enyo, LuneOS is barely an Alpha project.

    I too use my PlayBook every now and then. It still does the same things it did the day I bought it. Frankly, I have no idea what you think you're entitled to. Maybe that's the problem, your generation thinks the world owes them something.

    Posted via CB10 From My Passport SE aka The Last Emperor
    My generation? Yeah right, sure. HP allowed you to salvage tablet and in the same time the device became next HTC HD2. We're talking about usability here and options to extend it. They dropped the ball after 49 days.
    Also no one here talked about open sourcing PlayBook OS. (OS10 why not PB OS 2) Just open the hardware for something else if you don't want to open source. Plain and Simple.
    12-15-16 07:50 PM
  5. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    You're using a horrible example. Since webOS is Linux-based it's by nature already "open-sourced". The core of webOS is Mojo, which is NOT open. webOS 2.0 uses the Enyo framework which is, wait for it, NOT open either. Have a peek at WebOS Ports and take a look at what's going on. The first thing you'll find is that without Enyo, LuneOS is barely an Alpha project.

    I too use my PlayBook every now and then. It still does the same things it did the day I bought it. Frankly, I have no idea what you think you're entitled to. Maybe that's the problem, your generation thinks the world owes them something.

    Posted via CB10 From My Passport SE aka The Last Emperor
    Complete tangent, but Mojo is proprietary, Enyo is open source, and LuneOS does run Enyo apps.
    12-15-16 08:01 PM
  6. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Complete tangent, but Mojo is proprietary, Enyo is open source, and LuneOS does run Enyo apps.
    My bad, I was thinking of Luna which is part of the Mojo API.
    12-15-16 08:15 PM
  7. fatclue_98's Avatar
    My generation? Yeah right, sure. HP allowed you to salvage tablet and in the same time the device became next HTC HD2. We're talking about usability here and options to extend it. They dropped the ball after 49 days.
    Also no one here talked about open sourcing PlayBook OS. (OS10 why not PB OS 2) Just open the hardware for something else if you don't want to open source. Plain and Simple.
    See post #96. Spoiler Alert: it's your own post advocating open source for the PlayBook. Oops.
    12-15-16 08:19 PM
  8. shorski's Avatar
    After PlayBook fiasco, as one of the owners of the device, I think that they own big time to correct, actually to prevent repeating same error with BB10. BlackBerry treats its customers like they are idiots. I'm not going to support company that a) Doesn't support its own device b) Lies about support c) Doesn't want to open source and allow us to use our devices with something else. We bought the hardware, we have the right to load the software we choose, as long as it is compatible with hardware components.
    a) Because they don't do new features, you decide to say "no support". Good just very good. If I tell you, I will support you with your school fees, does that mean I have to buy you a school bag too? You are also not paying attention.
    b) we just got 2 updates within 2 weeks, so what lie are you talking about.
    c) seriously? They never begged you to buy their product. Because others may open source their hardware doesn't mean they have to do the same. They are a security company for heaven's sake, anything that will jeopardise security is obviously prohibited. If you ain't okay with that, move along, get on a platform that let's you play "Tom and Jerry" with your device.
    fatclue_98 and TheAuthority like this.
    12-15-16 09:54 PM
  9. eshropshire's Avatar
    I fully agree with you. The statements in this document are very poor marketing speak at best. Today we are in mid December 2.5 months after BlackBerry announced they were no getting out of creating their own phones. This strategy had to have been planned for months before the announcement, yet in that time only one OEM has come forward to license the BlackBerry name, and that company is in Indonesia.

    Not one OEM has come forward to announce they are licensing BlackBerry Android or BB10. You don't need to have a product ready for market to announce a licensing deal. Companies make announcements all the time when licensing deals are signed. I have personally been involved with many such deals over the years.
    I guess I spoke too soon. Blackberry has signed an exclusive OEM deal for most of the world with TCL.
    12-15-16 10:33 PM
  10. Slash82's Avatar
    BlackBerry has been clear on their website. Too many diehards fans are looking for a sliver of hope that isn't there. Company is willing to sell OS10 devices to anyone that has cash. Company is willing to allow someone to build new BB10 devices if they so wish to license BB10. That future company would have to pay for all the new development costs not BlackBerry. Seems pretty simple to me. I've bought, paid for and never sold, every model of BB10 phone and the PRIV. The company delivered what I paid for. What else do they owe me according to you?
    Thanks for your reply!
    BlackBerry is setting those silver lining themselves with all those tweets about how much they care - and that isn't right.

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-16 01:50 AM
  11. Slash82's Avatar
    I guess I spoke too soon. Blackberry has signed an exclusive OEM deal for most of the world with TCL.
    True, but that also excludes OS10:

    ""At TCL Communication, we are committed to creating the best portfolio solutions, while ensuring the quality support to consumers and enterprise users who trust the integrity of the BlackBerry device and the brand's security leadership, coupled with the Android platform," said Nicolas Zibell, CEO of TCL Communication."

    Even Zibell is more clear as Chen.

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-16 01:55 AM
  12. Slash82's Avatar
    "that people" is their target audience ... who they now consider enterprise clients.

    For those enterprise people, you can use BlackBerry 10 outside the workspace too... and they gave a few examples.

    It doesn't mean "people out the workplace using BlackBerry 10". Interpret it whatever way you want, but that is how I read it and I believe what BlackBerry meant.
    Thanks for your reply!
    Maybe that or to consumers - no clear words to that.
    That's what they posted just a few minutes ago and to me this clearly looks like 'for consumers':



    The comment BlackBerry is holding back / "censoring"-img_20161216_084657_edit.png

    Posted via CB10
    Attached Thumbnails The comment BlackBerry is holding back / "censoring"-img_20161216_084657.png  
    12-16-16 02:12 AM
  13. Nikola Stojic's Avatar
    See post #96. Spoiler Alert: it's your own post advocating open source for the PlayBook. Oops.
    Point number 3 was on open sourcing OS 10. Still if you can't open source something fully, you can always allow it to be loaded with something else.

    I'm sorry but if you are going for consumer style company, when you give up on something atleast leave a way for others to improve device. HP wasn't in denial with their tablet. They didn't announce and later on retracted announcement on OS 10 coming to PlayBook. Some users bought the PlayBook because of that promise. HP just left and cut the price, selling tablet massively with discount.

    Facts are there, HP users are even running 7.0.1 on their devices while we are stuck with OS that makes tablet only useful as eBook reader. (If I wanted eBook reader in first place I would have bought Kindle)

    If I'm running company and something is dragging on I know what I have to do. I'm not going to be in denial, and if it's better to pull out early, than to face a lot of the problems later on due to inactivity, I'll certainly do it. Plus any reasonable shareholder would except to ditch something as soon as possible if it isn't making money. Dragging on is just a useless for both users and shareholders and just gives false hope.
    Last edited by Nikola Stojic; 12-16-16 at 04:40 AM.
    12-16-16 04:30 AM
  14. Aju's Avatar
    Thanks for your reply!
    Maybe that or to consumers - no clear words to that.
    That's what they posted just a few minutes ago and to me this clearly looks like 'for consumers':



    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20161216_084657_edit.png 
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    Posted via CB10
    How dare you? Only enterprise people goes on vacation...are u so much of a kid to understand when BlackBerry is so much open and clear in explaining?

    Q10SQN100-3/10.3.3.2049
    Slash82 likes this.
    12-16-16 07:00 AM
  15. john_v's Avatar
    OP, I'm not sure what you're going on about.


    Let it go.
    Slash82 likes this.
    12-16-16 07:33 AM
  16. Slash82's Avatar
    How dare you? Only enterprise people goes on vacation...are u so much of a kid to understand when BlackBerry is so much open and clear in explaining?

    Q10SQN100-3/10.3.3.2049
    Sorry, my fault!

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-16 07:37 AM
  17. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    To the OP about the "censoring" thing, be patient, they take a while to approve comments on the blog. Yes, I know, that blog is supposed to be a direct voice from Blackberry, but if you look closely, is not that active and updated. They even announced 10.3.3 far after it was released.

    It's sad how they manage the communication with their users. But hey, it is what it is....
    12-16-16 07:42 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Point number 3 was on open sourcing OS 10. Still if you can't open source something fully, you can always allow it to be loaded with something else.

    I'm sorry but if you are going for consumer style company, when you give up on something atleast leave a way for others to improve device. HP wasn't in denial with their tablet. They didn't announce and later on retracted announcement on OS 10 coming to PlayBook. Some users bought the PlayBook because of that promise. HP just left and cut the price, selling tablet massively with discount.

    Facts are there, HP users are even running 7.0.1 on their devices while we are stuck with OS that makes tablet only useful as eBook reader. (If I wanted eBook reader in first place I would have bought Kindle)

    If I'm running company and something is dragging on I know what I have to do. I'm not going to be in denial, and if it's better to pull out early, than to face a lot of the problems later on due to inactivity, I'll certainly do it. Plus any reasonable shareholder would except to ditch something as soon as possible if it isn't making money. Dragging on is just a useless for both users and shareholders and just gives false hope.
    But again, this whole line of discussion is completely moot, as you need the BlackBerry signing keys to install anything on a BB10 device.
    12-16-16 08:06 AM
  19. itsyaboy's Avatar
    I am not sure whether it got mentioned, since I wasn't really keen on reading five pages of hurt feelings.. but the OP's comment has been online on the BlackBerry Blogs for three days already. I guess he failed to notice the small notification you always get that comments need to be approved before they are shown. In my experience, they will always approve comments, even the critical ones.

    Even if OP's comment felt like reading a little child's tantrum, did they approve and post it..
    john_v likes this.
    12-16-16 08:08 AM
  20. stlabrat's Avatar
    My generation? Yeah right, sure. HP allowed you to salvage tablet and in the same time the device became next HTC HD2. We're talking about usability here and options to extend it. They dropped the ball after 49 days.
    Also no one here talked about open sourcing PlayBook OS. (OS10 why not PB OS 2) Just open the hardware for something else if you don't want to open source. Plain and Simple.
    Hardware: I am sure you can open the playbook and use individual parts for your liking: LCD connect to something else, take out the camera, video card and hook up to make a personal door monitoring stuff... The unique of BB is always hardware software coupled, since you don't like the old software and want open hardware.. go play with it to your heart desire, just forget to up-rooting, take it apart, make a XP or strip down version of driod by modify it... (forget the BB10 OS...). It not designed to be rooted (that is why it is better). One warning: the memory is limited (that is possibly why it not going to get the update BB10), you got stuck - possibly not any of new OS you want to loaded to the unit, unless you beef up the RAM, that is a tall order (for me at least) to do it externally without impact on performance - speed. But either way, live with it as it is, or go "open" hardware up, really open it up and have fun of it.- you might learn a lot on the way. (ready to clean up a large table and spilled guts out). IMHO. (don't do it is my advice... you can still stream movie via HDMI, video chat via wifi as video phone... great feature not promoted heavily for what ever the reason... someone prefer to pay Alicia Key instead - she actually use iphone while collect BB money! .... still hurt in my heart).
    It used TI processor, so you are warned to what you can even it rooted - remind me again what you want it do? http://www.techinsights.com/teardown...book-teardown/
    12-16-16 08:12 AM
  21. Nikola Stojic's Avatar
    But again, this whole line of discussion is completely moot, as you need the BlackBerry signing keys to install anything on a BB10 device.
    That's true. But, if you had for example an autoloader that would be downloaded for specific device when requested with specific ID, it would make it easy to wipe the device, removing the signing keys restriction. I mean, the hardware parts are the ones that you can find in other devices, so there isn't anything strange about it. For example STL-1 variant of Z10 has the FM radio capability, but isn't enabled by the software. (MSM8960 chip) (About drivers: I believe that they exist for the Android, the only explanation would be that they didn't want to write the drivers for one device which would make it different from other variants of same device, and make unnecessary work and pain to market.
    12-16-16 08:31 AM
  22. conite's Avatar
    That's true. But, if you had for example an autoloader that would be downloaded for specific device when requested with specific ID, it would make it easy to wipe the device, removing the signing keys restriction. I mean, the hardware parts are the ones that you can find in other devices, so there isn't anything strange about it. For example STL-1 variant of Z10 has the FM radio capability, but isn't enabled by the software. (MSM8960 chip) (About drivers: I believe that they exist for the Android, the only explanation would be that they didn't want to write the drivers for one device which would make it different from other variants of same device, and make unnecessary work and pain to market.
    The signing key requirement is hard coded.
    stlabrat likes this.
    12-16-16 08:33 AM
  23. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    The signing key requirement is hard coded.
    Everything is easy until you know how.
    12-16-16 08:37 AM
  24. JohnKCG's Avatar
    That's true. But, if you had for example an autoloader that would be downloaded for specific device when requested with specific ID, it would make it easy to wipe the device, removing the signing keys restriction. I mean, the hardware parts are the ones that you can find in other devices, so there isn't anything strange about it. For example STL-1 variant of Z10 has the FM radio capability, but isn't enabled by the software. (MSM8960 chip) (About drivers: I believe that they exist for the Android, the only explanation would be that they didn't want to write the drivers for one device which would make it different from other variants of same device, and make unnecessary work and pain to market.
    Add to that that all the Z10 variants and all the Q10 variants had a chip capable of USB OTG, even the old Nokia Lumia's had one capable of USB OTG, I even had a thread in Windows Central about how the Lumia 1520 didn't had USB OTG and they told me the chip was privated of that capability, so I expect the same was done to the aforementioned BlackBerry Devices, even if the radio and miracast files appear on My old STL100-1 in app manager, @Thurask even answered me about those files listing on My Z10 and not being able of erasing them, very sad because it would be very cool to have that feature on My Black devices, curious thing is, they didn't even put it on the porshe Design devices that came later, I expected them to add USB OTG on Porshe Design P9982 and P9983 as "new features"

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-16 10:40 AM
  25. Nikola Stojic's Avatar
    Add to that that all the Z10 variants and all the Q10 variants had a chip capable of USB OTG, even the old Nokia Lumia's had one capable of USB OTG, I even had a thread in Windows Central about how the Lumia 1520 didn't had USB OTG and they told me the chip was privated of that capability, so I expect the same was done to the aforementioned BlackBerry Devices, even if the radio and miracast files appear on My old STL100-1 in app manager, @Thurask even answered me about those files listing on My Z10 and not being able of erasing them, very sad because it would be very cool to have that feature on My Black devices, curious thing is, they didn't even put it on the porshe Design devices that came later, I expected them to add USB OTG on Porshe Design P9982 and P9983 as "new features"

    Posted via CB10
    Funny thing is that PlayBook also has support for USB OTG, but oh well what do we know, it runs glorious software OS. (So glorious that its Bluetooth doesn't connect to non-BlackBerry devices)
    12-16-16 10:51 AM
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