07-25-16 12:20 AM
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  1. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Android is the best Mobile OS...for Android users.

    BB10 is the best Mobile OS...for BB10 users.

    Most users in these forums know what they want and need, and make their decisions based upon their respective use cases.

    Arguing that other people should do the same thing you do is what my 6 year child does.

    Posted via CB10
    How would you know ? They have not made a BlackBerry format phone running Android. There are not enough BB10 users to sustain the continued sales of those devices. The same may hold true for Android as well. It depends on how well the Rome is received.
    06-22-16 09:57 PM
  2. keithhackneysmullet's Avatar
    Your opinion of things.. Companies don't want to lose money.. and I STRONGLY DISAGREE with "Microsoft has said for a few years now they are only making phones for enthusiasts".. Companies don't have hobbies.. They don't do things for fun, They do it for profitability.. If it's not making money.. It'll get killed..

    The fact that you say Microsoft makes Phones for enthusiasts is a disaster.. They forked 7 Billion dollars on Nokia for enthusiasts?.. The Shareholders would have probably massacred them.. haha..You think they're running a comic shop or what.. They wrote off $7.6 Billion as a loss.. 7,800 Job Cuts.. That's how Microsoft miserably failed!!

    There is very little development cost for the software.. But what about the Hardware? Currently Microsoft is the leading company releasing the Phones.. All the other companies throw one windows phone here and there.. Doesn't get sold.. Gets branded a failure and thats it.. No one even hears about them.

    Windows Mobile is a dead man walking. They'll release whatever they'll release.. No one is buying..
    Satya Nadella has been saying since he became ceo that Microsoft will build phones for enthusiasts. Microsoft can afford to lose money on phones for the next 100 years Blackberry can't. Microsoft just bought linkdin for $26 billion in part to save money on taxes .We are talking economies of vastly different scale when comparing Microsoft to blackberry.

    The fact is the flag ship windows phone is being built by HP not Microsoft and no one is lining up to build a BB10 device. I will still be able to buy windows phones 10 years from now I don't believe I can say the same for Blackberry.
    TgeekB, Mecca EL and dierre like this.
    06-22-16 10:48 PM
  3. acovey's Avatar
    And so it begins.
    No it began when someone at Blackberry decided to use Android.
    Flatman likes this.
    06-22-16 11:05 PM
  4. acovey's Avatar
    I can see why a person would like a Q10, 9900, Classic and even the too wide Passport. But BB10 is just an incomplete phone operating system with no ecosystem.
    Funny my Classic came with about three pages of Apps and I only installed Gas Buddy and I have never opened about 2/3's of them and don't feel incomplete at all.
    Sairos, Bluenoser63 and Flatman like this.
    06-22-16 11:29 PM
  5. Sairos's Avatar
    Satya Nadella has been saying since he became ceo that Microsoft will build phones for enthusiasts. Microsoft can afford to lose money on phones for the next 100 years Blackberry can't. Microsoft just bought linkdin for $26 billion in part to save money on taxes .We are talking economies of vastly different scale when comparing Microsoft to blackberry.

    The fact is the flag ship windows phone is being built by HP not Microsoft and no one is lining up to build a BB10 device. I will still be able to buy windows phones 10 years from now I don't believe I can say the same for Blackberry.
    Haha I cant believe what you're saying.. Anyway here is my last counter argument and post in reply to your posts.. As a person who is interested in Business & investing, I find what you're saying to be unbelievable.

    1- NO company affords to lose money... Let alone for 100 years.. and no company loses money intentionally!

    2- No one said BlackBerry can afford to lose money for 100 years or any number of years, they intend to shut down the hardware business if its not profitable by March/17.. ( Because that's what Companies do, they don't just drown themselves into losses)

    3- Microsoft didn't buy Linkedin to save taxes (Even if they did so, that means they care about saving money.. Something you deny).. When a company acquires another company its because it serves their business interests.. Microsoft has been shifting their business to cloud services.. The following is from Satya's email to Linkedin employees on the acquisition.. Taken from Microsoft's website:

    "I have spent a lot of time learning about LinkedIn while also reflecting on how networks can truly differentiate cloud services. Over the past decade we have moved Microsoft Office from a set of productivity tools to a cloud service across any platform and device. This deal is the next step forward for Microsoft Office 365 and Dynamics as we connect them to the world’s largest and most valuable professional network"

    4- Microsoft sold the entry-level feature phone assets to a subsidiary of Foxconn for $350 million.. Does this look like a company who doesn't care about money.. Why didn't they keep it if they can afford to lose money for 100 years.. I mean 350 mil is nothing to them, right?.. but then again you said they bought Linkedin to save on taxes.. So you're arguing Microsoft is a beast who doesn't care about money yet buys companies to save money on taxes.. That's quite schizophrenic.

    5- No we're not talking economies, Because such word is used to refer to countries, not companies.. And I didn't compare BlackBerry to Microsoft in terms of anything.. I was talking about the odds of their OSs going extinct.. I've no idea why you turned the conversation to a Microsoft Vs BlackBerry contest, when it wasn't about that..

    6- No one can line up to build a BB10 device because only BlackBerry can build them.. This is not Android or Windows.

    7- I don't think you can say that you'll be able to buy windows' phones 10 years from now, unless of course you're a sorcerer and can see into the future.. You can't guarantee a company will stay alive for 10 years, let alone their OS.. I hope Nokia & BlackBerry help you remember this.. Same goes for BlackBerry, I don't know what will happen 10 years from now.. I dropped my magic ball and it got broken.. Unfortunately I Couldn't replace the glass.. Sad, I know..

    8- Microsoft does indeed build flagship phones.. Just go to their website or something.. You will find them.. You've the Microsoft Lumia 950 XL.. That's a flagship phone, 500$ or so right now..


    Have a nice day
    Last edited by Sairos; 06-23-16 at 12:10 AM.
    06-22-16 11:55 PM
  6. silversmith75's Avatar
    For me it's all about survival of the Blackberry brand and if it means they are now Android based instead of OS10, then so be it. It's better then the alternative of not making any devices at all!!!
    But that is the whole point it's not a BlackBerry anymore it's an android. It's like building a fiat and putting a Ferrari badge on it and saying it's a Ferrari... it's not its still just a fiat

    #luvmybb10os
    06-23-16 12:07 AM
  7. phillyd2's Avatar
    For me it's all about survival of the Blackberry brand and if it means they are now Android based instead of OS10, then so be it. It's better then the alternative of not making any devices at all!!!
    Sounds more like religious dogma to me. But buying a phone or any other consumer product is not a religious issue and in the free market brand loyalty is meaningless. They either make a product that the market wants or they don't. In the case of BB they didn't. And because they failed at their only mission they deserved to lose their market share.

    The market graveyard is filled with once great brands who also failed. As it should be. The reasons for thier failure can be debated forever but not one of them deserves any loyalty whatsoever.
    06-23-16 04:13 AM
  8. Slash82's Avatar
    Aren't you all tired with the entire fight between android bb10? I and many others browse the forums to learn things read and talk and in every forum especially the new devices the same fight ALWAYS! It is acceptable to like android or bb10. Noone of them is hard to learn let's be freaking honest. Blackberry announced 2 more android devices it will help the company get back on truck. Why? Because many people like pkb and android apps DEAL WITH IT you don't have to be a business man to get a blackberry so stop throwing around the "it's for work not for apps"
    We are here to learn stuff not have you around fighting for a device! If you want android get it if you don't want it than stay with your blackberry device and stop calling others name for their freaking prefence on android or bb10 it's stupid

    Posted via CB10
    I see your point and you ain't wrong.
    The thing here is that lots of people (including me), don't want OS10 to be replaced for Android.
    If it's they's coexist - everything would be fine, but there is a strong feeling that this won't happen.
    There is a reason why people like me use BlackBerry devices for so many years - and it is not because BlackBerry offers the latest hardware.
    It's mainly because of BlackBerry's OS and it's advantages.
    That's the reason why people are fighting "against" Android - don't get me wrong, there is no problem with Android itself. It's about what is running on my BlackBerry.
    Everything would be fine, when BlackBerry only uses Android to generate some money - but since there hasn't been a OS10 device for that long and no future plans for it. That's whats concerning.
    wilber1 and silversmith75 like this.
    06-23-16 06:02 AM
  9. melander's Avatar
    The undertone and underlying hate over Android is not just the OS itself. It is the great potential that Blackberry has of committing suicide by going that route. Instead of selling BB10 and continuing to make it a superior UI experience and secure, Blackberry is eating someone else's dogfood and hoping the consumers accept what comes out the other end. We're trying to provide an intervention before it gets too late. If it is already too late, then we are there to tell Blackberry "Told You So". When Chen finally admitted the market was saturated, that didn't happen overnight. It was saturated before they made that decision. "Told You So"

    BB10 did not have enough time on the market. Hindsight is 20/20. BB7 was a great step up, but no one I ever showed it to knew that Blackberry made a touchscreen OS. "Liquid Graphics" indeed.

    I get BB10, and the same thing, no one knew they had a touchscreen OS or a new OS, they see the keyboard and think it's a pre OS7 Blackberry like the one they were used to.

    Todays consumerism is full of assumptions and driven by non-techies. Show or tell an Android user about the HUB, and they ASSUME that you can download some app in Google Play that does the same thing.
    HeyCori likes this.
    06-23-16 06:09 AM
  10. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    The undertone and underlying hate over Android is not just the OS itself. It is the great potential that Blackberry has of committing suicide by going that route. Instead of selling BB10 and continuing to make it a superior UI experience and secure, Blackberry is eating someone else's dogfood and hoping the consumers accept what comes out the other end. We're trying to provide an intervention before it gets too late. If it is already too late, then we are there to tell Blackberry "Told You So". When Chen finally admitted the market was saturated, that didn't happen overnight. It was saturated before they made that decision. "Told You So"

    BB10 did not have enough time on the market. Hindsight is 20/20. BB7 was a great step up, but no one I ever showed it to knew that Blackberry made a touchscreen OS. "Liquid Graphics" indeed.

    I get BB10, and the same thing, no one knew they had a touchscreen OS or a new OS, they see the keyboard and think it's a pre OS7 Blackberry like the one they were used to.

    Todays consumerism is full of assumptions and driven by non-techies. Show or tell an Android user about the HUB, and they ASSUME that you can download some app in Google Play that does the same thing.
    How many more billions could BlackBerry afford to lose on BB10? Before they announced the move to Android, sales of BB10 devices were well below a sustainable point.

    People knew BlackBerry made a touchscreen OS... there is no way to forget the STORM. It pretty much killed their consumer business in the US.

    I do agree that more should have been done with BB10... problem is BlackBerry wasn't in a position to do those things and it was simply too late in 2013 to bring a new platform to the smartphone market. One look at Microsoft and Windows should be enough to prove that MONEY, Marketing, Advertising, Hardware Gimmicks, subsidising hardware... that just not enough. And BlackBerry can't afford to do any of those.

    Sadly in 2017, it's just too late.
    06-23-16 07:10 AM
  11. Bbnivende's Avatar
    In the final analysis few people want a PKB phone but if you want a PKB phone then you need to buy the new Rome or an extra Classic / Passport or while you have the chance.

    Posted via CB10
    06-23-16 07:24 AM
  12. melander's Avatar
    In the final analysis few people want a PKB phone but if you want a PKB phone then you need to buy the new Rome or an extra Classic / Passport or while you have the chance.

    Posted via CB10
    Is it what people want or are offered? I can't believe so many want to make mistakes when entering text on a full touchscreen. I can't believe it's ok to click a link that was not wanted because you can simply go back. Given a new Apple or Samsung flagship phone with pkb, they would probably change their tune. Those things are not going to happen though because it costs more for the manufacturer to produce good hardware, and users will eventually break their large glass equaling faster re-sales.

    Posted via CB10
    06-23-16 07:29 AM
  13. melander's Avatar
    How many more billions could BlackBerry afford to lose on BB10? Before they announced the move to Android, sales of BB10 devices were well below a sustainable point.

    People knew BlackBerry made a touchscreen OS... there is no way to forget the STORM. It pretty much killed their consumer business in the US.

    I do agree that more should have been done with BB10... problem is BlackBerry wasn't in a position to do those things and it was simply too late in 2013 to bring a new platform to the smartphone market. One look at Microsoft and Windows should be enough to prove that MONEY, Marketing, Advertising, Hardware Gimmicks, subsidising hardware... that just not enough. And BlackBerry can't afford to do any of those.

    Sadly in 2017, it's just too late.
    Yes, it is too late. But did the Priv sales sustain BlackBerry? I think it says a lot about the company when they make claims of their inhouse os versus the competition, then they join the competition.

    Posted via CB10
    ddp_in likes this.
    06-23-16 07:31 AM
  14. DrJay1's Avatar
    But an adage that has been around for a long time says, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
    06-23-16 07:47 AM
  15. BBd00d's Avatar
    Everyone has their preferences, and it's no one's business or place to argue with you on why you like a particular device or ecosystem. Many people here and everywhere else on the Internet need to focus on getting laid...because arguing opinion helps no one, and even more so, it's technology, it'll be different within hours anyway.

    I like BB10 moreso than any other OS, but I also like android almost as much for different reasons. I cannot stand iOS or Windows10 mobile, again for my own reasons, but when it comes to arguing with people about it, why bother? I admit, I'll laugh a bit when someone I know gets frustrated about having to pay for everything on iOS, or using a PC to add/remove content to their phone or tablet, but I'll only give MY OPINION if it's asked for. Saves me a lot of frustration.

    Remember, many people don't give a 'care' about how things work, they just want what works and is simple. I'm from a technology background primarily, so to get people to understand what I know is both frustrating and time consuming. I'd rather spend my time being productive and increasing my net worth, thank you very much.

    I'm going to sideline my OG Passport in favour of an IDOL 4S soon because aside from communications purposes, I always have to find workarounds to get other stuff handled via my phone. Sure the Hub is excellent, battery life is still solid, screen real estate rocks, and call clarity is a cut above everything else I've ever used, but to get ahead in my career, unfortunately I need several key apps. They are installed on my passport but they're always crashing, and when they do work, they work like ***, so thanks to Chen for not pushing a runtime update, because that's what would have helped me stay on BB10 longer.

    </rant>

    Posted via CB10
    06-23-16 08:23 AM
  16. phillyd2's Avatar
    I see your point and you ain't wrong.
    The thing here is that lots of people (including me), don't want OS10 to be replaced for Android.
    If it's they's coexist - everything would be fine, but there is a strong feeling that this won't happen.
    There is a reason why people like me use BlackBerry devices for so many years - and it is not because BlackBerry offers the latest hardware.
    It's mainly because of BlackBerry's OS and it's advantages.
    That's the reason why people are fighting "against" Android - don't get me wrong, there is no problem with Android itself. It's about what is running on my BlackBerry.
    Everything would be fine, when BlackBerry only uses Android to generate some money - but since there hasn't been a OS10 device for that long and no future plans for it. That's whats concerning.
    Nothing personal since I don't know you but So What? Its about time people here start accepting the simple fact that there was a war and our side lost. It it was not even a close fight.

    Should we have won? Was our cause just? Was our army better? None of that matters. The war is over and Apple / Droid are the victors. Some of you remind me of the Japanese fighter they found on a island years after the war who didn't know it was over.
    Bbnivende and TgeekB like this.
    06-23-16 08:48 AM
  17. melander's Avatar
    Nothing personal since I don't know you but So What? Its about time people here start accepting the simple fact that there was a war and our side lost. It it was not even a close fight.

    Should we have won? Was our cause just? Was our army better? None of that matters. The war is over and Apple / Droid are the victors. Some of you remind me of the Japanese fighter they found on a island years after the war who didn't know it was over.
    If the war you speak of is over consumer choice to use and be productive with what works best for them, why give in so easily?

    I've seen the automobile industry go totally FWD because the Japanese made them, and that's "what consumers wanted". Efficient,smaller, FWD cars, no stick with plenty of understeer and maximum distance between the accelerator and brake pedals.

    Now, with the luxury brands (Lexus, Infinity) the Japanese carmakers came back to making RWD cars and gaining more of a profit due to their high cost. Now, look and see the American Luxury brands also are coming back to the RWD platform, playing follow the leader. So what was the truth around "what consumers want"? It was marketing. As technology improves, the features and choices that consumers really want should be on the table, and BB offered choices and features that consumers wanted.
    06-23-16 10:18 AM
  18. phillyd2's Avatar
    BB offered choices and features that consumers wanted.
    This is way beyond obviously not the case as evidenced by the complete collapse of their market share. Listen, I'm not happy about it either but I'm also not hording old VHS machines either.

    The good and bad thing about the market is that it cares nothing about emotional attachments. Its a black and white equation. Either you make a product that the market wants or you don't. You can blame the lack of marketing, little advertising, stupid customers, whatever but at the end of the day the consumer did not pull out their wallet to buy their products - and that's ALL THAT MATTERS!
    Mecca EL likes this.
    06-23-16 11:57 AM
  19. jimoates014's Avatar
    I'd say that BB10 had potential to be the best OS.... but without developer support and good hardware, it was doomed. Many may want to argug about it's greatness, how much they love it and how it still gets the job done for them.

    It's clear that the market and even BlackBerry have moved on....


    It's kinda like arguing over World War II and how great German engineering was.... doesn't change the fact that they lost. (Scary what might have happened if they had a few more months)
    If they had been given a few more months, then likely Berlin would have been one of the recipients of a nuclear device.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2876
    06-23-16 12:41 PM
  20. silversmith75's Avatar
    This is way beyond obviously not the case as evidenced by the complete collapse of their market share. Listen, I'm not happy about it either but I'm also not hording old VHS machines either.

    The good and bad thing about the market is that it cares nothing about emotional attachments. Its a black and white equation. Either you make a product that the market wants or you don't. You can blame the lack of marketing, little advertising, stupid customers, whatever but at the end of the day the consumer did not pull out their wallet to buy their products - and that's ALL THAT MATTERS!
    Can buy what you don't know exists

    #luvmybb10os
    MikeX74 likes this.
    06-23-16 01:43 PM
  21. silversmith75's Avatar
    How many more billions could BlackBerry afford to lose on BB10? Before they announced the move to Android, sales of BB10 devices were well below a sustainable point.

    People knew BlackBerry made a touchscreen OS... there is no way to forget the STORM. It pretty much killed their consumer business in the US.

    I do agree that more should have been done with BB10... problem is BlackBerry wasn't in a position to do those things and it was simply too late in 2013 to bring a new platform to the smartphone market. One look at Microsoft and Windows should be enough to prove that MONEY, Marketing, Advertising, Hardware Gimmicks, subsidising hardware... that just not enough. And BlackBerry can't afford to do any of those.

    Sadly in 2017, it's just too late.
    About the same sales numbers as the priv. So now what switch to win10 mobile?

    #luvmybb10os
    06-23-16 01:45 PM
  22. JRF_1986's Avatar
    How does Win10 compare to the others?
    I'm using the Insider Release Ring, which seems to be the most stable version they release.The Fast and Slow rings are prone to having more bugs but get features first. With this, I can say that it has been very stable on my 830 and battery life is still excellent. I like that Facebook Inc has made their own app, which currently is in Beta (the Microsoft version is missing a few things), and how it has a native FB messenger app. The email app (Outlook) has my 3 main accounts linked into one inbox and works great. I would probably say that my most favorite thing about W10 is the live tiles. I had Windows Phone 8.1 and loved the interface of the tiles, but on W10 you can set them to be more transparent and have a full screen wallpaper show below them. I just really like the way it looks. As for functions, most of the apps I use on all other devices are on W10. Google apps aren't available (except Google Search) so for Youtube I have different apps. Instagram is native and finally out of Beta. W10 is still missing certain things, but overall the experience has been pleasant. The only thing I notice missing while I use my 830, is gif support. It's almost non-existent. In messenger they show up as images, in other apps they open the web browser and that really annoys me. That's basically it for my usage and the Gif thing isn't something that's really driving me away from W10.
    TgeekB likes this.
    06-23-16 02:30 PM
  23. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Can buy what you don't know exists

    #luvmybb10os
    I personally do not know anyone who would want a PKB device. The only PKB market that still exists are mainly those who purchased the Classic and Passport with a smattering of former Z owners. The whole idea here is to make a low cost device that can be sold at low volumes yet not be a money loser.

    If BlackBerry can replicate the Nexus OS upgrade history then that is the one sales feature that may stick.
    06-23-16 02:45 PM
  24. melander's Avatar
    This is way beyond obviously not the case as evidenced by the complete collapse of their market share. Listen, I'm not happy about it either but I'm also not hording old VHS machines either.

    The good and bad thing about the market is that it cares nothing about emotional attachments. Its a black and white equation. Either you make a product that the market wants or you don't. You can blame the lack of marketing, little advertising, stupid customers, whatever but at the end of the day the consumer did not pull out their wallet to buy their products - and that's ALL THAT MATTERS!
    Market leaders define what the market gets and has. That's why I stated "consumers", not market.
    And you can't equate VHS (and I suppose BetaMAX, dvd, and blue ray) to BB10 versus iOS versus Android.
    If anything BB10 was ahead of all the rest. It was a choice, just as I choose not to drive the most popular
    cars out Today, but rather the one I want with the features that I agree with.

    Unfortunately, some fail to see the reason and benefits of this and fall back on emotionally stating emotions as
    a reason that consumers prefer one platform over another, when the real reasons include - communication
    application integration, one-handed use, true-multitasking, fine-grained application access control, easy cloning
    and migration from one handset to another, without giving my data to someone's cloud . On screensize; the
    larger the screen, the better the chance of you breaking your phone and replacing it. The rate is 1/3 of
    smartphone users break their devices within the first year. Blackberries were more durable, but that does not
    sell well year over year. So if you have to replace your phone at a higher rate, how is that "better"
    06-23-16 02:51 PM
  25. papped's Avatar
    In reality there is no longer a BB10 vs Android argument.... It's no longer a competition.
    06-23-16 03:45 PM
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