07-27-11 12:36 PM
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  1. 01itr's Avatar
    Actually RIM is 25.6% behind Apple (use the delta between Apple & RIM shipments divided by Apple's). And that happened from Apple's start with the iPhone 4 years ago. Yup, that would scare the cr@p out of me.

    - R.
    I'm not sure why you are using Apple and RIMs Q1 shipments for last year... Could you explain this to me?
    07-27-11 11:08 AM
  2. Rooster99's Avatar
    ... What I'm saying is simply offer an actionable alternative rather than pile on the bashing.
    I regret that you and I disagree on this one.
    I don't disagree with you. All I'm saying is if you hold the bashers up to that standard you should hold those defending up to the same standard, and I don't see you doing that.

    - R.
    07-27-11 11:10 AM
  3. howarmat's Avatar
    Those are nothing but estimations it's in the title.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    i knew you would give up some reason not to believe it. you deny anything that you dont like or is negative towards RIM
    avt123 likes this.
    07-27-11 11:17 AM
  4. Rooster99's Avatar
    Do you apply the same mentality when you buy a new car, tv, toaster or motorcycle? Do you really look at the CEO performance?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I invest much less longer term in supporting a car, tv or toaster. I have fewer training requirements and build a much smaller eco-system around them. They integrate much less directly with other components of my business. And I'm not likely to "upgrade" any of them - replacements will be a discrete purchase.

    If I were a courier company I might approach the purchase of cars for my fleet the way I approach a mobile technology investment & commitment. But I'm not.

    Short answer is, no. But it's not necessary for the items you describe.

    Oh, and in RIM's case I looked at product performance (sucks in touch screens, which is my direction), then product direction (floundering), then company performance (lots of risk in the future), then causes of poor performance (CEO's). See the process?

    - R.
    07-27-11 11:19 AM
  5. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I don't disagree with you. All I'm saying is if you hold the bashers up to that standard you should hold those defending up to the same standard, and I don't see you doing that.

    - R.
    Cnet's article deals with cuts at the top - the CEOs. OK, then those supporting the idea should offer up the alternative leadership structure and the six/nine/twelve month goals.
    Had the Cnet article been written as a defence of the CEOs assuming the stockholders wanted them gone, I'd want to see the opposite.
    Undeniably RIM is going through a rough patch. The question is - and no one really knows - what was the point of failure? We are seeing symptoms of a failure....did it happen in fact with the CEOs? That is an assumption. Would removing them bring about instant and positive change? That point is debatable.
    07-27-11 11:21 AM
  6. Rooster99's Avatar
    Haven't you been threatening to make this particular business decision for about two years now? I'm honestly asking. I seem to remember seeing you post this argument other times over the last couple years.
    Good catch, and thanks for paying attention - I'm flattered! <g>

    Still on the fence. Don't like the iTunes approach, vastly prefer Berry notifications, and live & die by Task Management so lack of a native task app on the iPhone is a huge drawback. Given I am currently invested in the Berry and there is so much ... potential with them, I keep hoping. I can get by with my Torch, and we're still not ready to properly evaluate mobile tech in our business. We have the need & interest, we just have more pressing priorities.

    iOS5 will be delivering a lot of what the iPhone was missing for me. OS7 still keeps a lot of what I don't like about Berries, including the app memory partition. So this fall may be the time to look at this. In the interim I keep on here, learning.

    - R.
    Last edited by Rooster99; 07-27-11 at 11:41 AM.
    07-27-11 11:25 AM
  7. sportline's Avatar
    Take out the ceo and the headless chicken running in circles.
    Not now, too dangerous. Maybe next year.

    Sent from my Dell Streak using Tapatalk
    07-27-11 11:25 AM
  8. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    i knew you would give up some reason not to believe it. you deny anything that you dont like or is negative towards RIM
    Because this is the source: " Neil Mawston, a London-based analyst at Strategy Analytics, a research company based in Boston, said in an e-mailed response to questions on July 22" and the numbers include dumb phones or phones that "are not capable of installing applications"

    To sum it up, information came from an email and includes dumb phones. A +- 3 million estimation is not exactly very accurate, is it?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-27-11 11:27 AM
  9. psufan32's Avatar
    Do you apply the same mentality when you buy a new car, tv, toaster or motorcycle? Do you really look at the CEO performance?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    The CEO's performance is represented on a larger scale by the success, or the lack thereof, of the greater company. I couldn't care less if Samsung goes out of business. Their future success means nothing in terms of how my TV will perform a year from now or five years from now. The same goes for Breville and my Toaster.

    I DO care about the future of my smart phone company, the company that makes my laptop, and my car company. Would I have bought a Chrysler or GM car two years ago? **** no. Will I buy another BB until they prove that the company has a future amongst the big boys? Again, **** no. I'm counting on Audi (and, in turn, VW), being around for years to come, because I want to know that they will be able to service my car, fulfill my warranty, ensure resale value, etc. I'm also counting on Apple/Google(HTC)/Microsoft to be around for years to come and to thrive so that my phone will receive innovative updates, developers will continue to develop, and the phone will get better with time.
    Laura Knotek and Rooster99 like this.
    07-27-11 11:30 AM
  10. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The CEO's performance is represented on a larger scale by the success, or the lack thereof, of the greater company. I couldn't care less if Samsung goes out of business. Their future success means nothing in terms of how my TV will perform a year from now or five years from now. The same goes for Breville and my Toaster.

    I DO care about the future of my smart phone company, the company that makes my laptop, and my car company. Would I have bought a Chrysler or GM car two years ago? **** no. Will I buy another BB until they prove that the company has a future amongst the big boys? Again, **** no. I'm counting on Audi (and, in turn, VW), being around for years to come, because I want to know that they will be able to service my car, fulfill my warranty, ensure resale value, etc. I'm also counting on Apple/Google(HTC)/Microsoft to be around for years to come and to thrive so that my phone will receive innovative updates, developers will continue to develop, and the phone will get better with time.
    Please give me an example of an "innovative" update any smartphone has received after launch.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-27-11 11:36 AM
  11. psufan32's Avatar
    Please give me an example of an "innovative" update any smartphone has received after launch.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Innovative may not be the right word. Major update may be a better way of putting it.

    Windows Phones are going to be getting Mango soon. That is a MAJOR OS update. iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 owners will be getting iOS5, which brings with it some pretty major updates. To be fair, OS6 wasn't an "innovative" update per se, but it was at least a nice upgrade over OS5.

    The point was: I want to know, with my smartphone, that it is going to continue to be supported big time by the company, that the developer community is going to continue to grow and develop, etc. Basically, I want my phone to continue to become more useful over time because of a combination of those two factors and more.
    Laura Knotek, avt123 and howarmat like this.
    07-27-11 11:45 AM
  12. howarmat's Avatar
    hulu and netflix being added to many androids after there release is pretty nice

    Same updates would be great for PB, along with DLNA
    Laura Knotek and avt123 like this.
    07-27-11 11:47 AM
  13. olblueyez's Avatar
    Hmmmm ... I see one rather glaringly significant point: all we know of RIM's plans is what has so far been made public, that being the elimination of 2,000 positions and a spate of departures from the management ranks. We have no idea where the cuts are in the former or what RIM's plans are to address the latter -- or even the exact reasons for those, for that matter. Sitting here criticizing a corporate strategy having absolutely no idea what the whole strategy is is pretty pointless. I don't know the whole story, Qubie doesn't know the whole story, and unless you're part of RIM's senior management team, it's a pretty safe bet that you don't know the whole story, either.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Please do let us know when RIM leaks your opinion so we know what it is.

    If some of you look back the article mentioned letting them stay on to evaluate the prospect of keeping them was a good idea based on the QNX transformation. My opinion of that is it sounds like a last ditch self serving effort on their part that would be bad for RIM and us. Maybe paying them a small amount for consultation purposes until that arrangement is no longer needed but that would be all I think.

    I think the OS7 Devices and QNX are more important than keeping two CEO's who seem to be reactionary rather than proactive.

    Even though my opinion is based on my reality and I am seeing little green men from Mars.

    Since Red will not approve for what ever reason.
    Last edited by olblueyez; 07-27-11 at 12:18 PM.
    07-27-11 12:05 PM
  14. 01itr's Avatar
    Hmmmm ... I see one rather glaringly significant point: all we know of RIM's plans is what has so far been made public, that being the elimination of 2,000 positions and a spate of departures from the management ranks. We have no idea where the cuts are in the former or what RIM's plans are to address the latter -- or even the exact reasons for those, for that matter. Sitting here criticizing a corporate strategy having absolutely no idea what the whole strategy is is pretty pointless. I don't know the whole story, Qubie doesn't know the whole story, and unless you're part of RIM's senior management team, it's a pretty safe bet that you don't know the whole story, either.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    /thread

    10chars
    07-27-11 12:11 PM
  15. avt123's Avatar
    Please give me an example of an "innovative" update any smartphone has received after launch.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    So that was the only thing you were able to pull out of his response because you have nothing to say about the others? He answered your question, and now you answer his response to your question (actually no answer really, totally ignored his response to respond to the only part you can try to refute) with another question? Amazing.
    Last edited by avt123; 07-27-11 at 12:24 PM.
    07-27-11 12:18 PM
  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    So that was the only thing you were able to pull out of his response because you have nothing to say about the others? He answered your question, and now you answer his response to your question (actually no answer really, totally ignored his response to respond to the only part you can try to refute) with another question? Amazing.
    Didn't have the time, I was a bout to drive off, still don't have time, I'm typing this before the lights turn green thanks to BB ease of use and keyboard. Get of your high horse.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01itr likes this.
    07-27-11 12:27 PM
  17. avt123's Avatar
    Didn't have the time, I was a bout to drive off, still don't have time, I'm typing this before the lights turn green thanks to BB ease of use and keyboard. Get of your high horse.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Oh my god you can type at a green light! Anyone with a cellphone is capable of doing this. I'm the one on a high horse? Lol what? Dude, you are the one that just tried to make it sound like BBs are the only devices able to type successfully on at a green light. You are the one defending RIM with all your heart because someone doesn't share the same opinion as you. You are the one on a high horse. Quit being such a fanboy and take off the blinders.
    07-27-11 12:36 PM
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