07-27-11 12:36 PM
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  1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    A split is unnecessary for a platform comparison.
    Last time I checked Rim was a manufacturer not a "platform".

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-27-11 09:49 AM
  2. Economist101's Avatar
    If RIM is ever truly relying on "service" revenue it's in serious trouble. The real money is in hardware sales.
    07-27-11 09:54 AM
  3. Economist101's Avatar
    Last time I checked Rim was a manufacturer not a "platform".
    True, but since no one else sells devices running BB OS, it's a distinction without a difference, just like the fact that "iOS" is interchangeable with "Apple."
    07-27-11 09:55 AM
  4. 01itr's Avatar
    Good point. Let's look at worldwide platform sales last quarter:

    iOS: 30+ million
    Android: 30+ million
    RIM: 13.7 million

    Hmmm. So in terms of platform sales, only 1 of ever 5 devices sold between these platforms is an RIM device. Too broad you say? Okay, let's look just at phones:

    Android: 30+ million
    iOS: 20.2 million
    RIM: 13.2 million

    Still nearly just 1 of 5, despite the U.K. success. So what exactly was your point?
    Where is this data coming from? This are the figures I see from the IDC Worldwide Quarterly Mobile Phone Tracker



    Using this, RIM is just ~4.5% behind Apple when it comes to Smartphone sales. So if you want to use your way of x in x phones... It is safe to say that:

    Apple is selling ~19 out of every 100 phones sold
    RIM is selling ~14 out of every 100 phones sold

    Bringing this down to every 5 phones...

    Apple is selling 0.9 out of every 5 phones
    RIM is selling 0.7 out of every 5 phones

    Is this what you mean when you say "nearly"? If so, then Apple and RIM both sell "nearly" 1 in 5 phones

    Not that big of a difference if you ask me... Seems like people are still interested in their phones to me...
    Last edited by 01itr; 07-27-11 at 10:01 AM.
    07-27-11 09:58 AM
  5. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    True, but since no one else sells devices running BB OS, it's a distinction without a difference, just like the fact that "iOS" is interchangeable with "Apple."
    Show me how many smartphones is Google selling then?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01itr likes this.
    07-27-11 10:01 AM
  6. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    A split is unnecessary for a platform comparison.
    Actually it is necessary. You can't compare two smartphone manufacturers of smartphones with an Operating System. They're not all three the same. This is an unfair comparison. Compare Apple to RIM. Or Apple, RIM & Samsung. But you can't compare the two against firmware.
    07-27-11 10:02 AM
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Actually it is necessary. You can't compare two smartphone manufacturers of smartphones with an Operating System. They're not all three the same. This is an unfair comparison. Compare Apple to RIM. Or Apple, RIM & Samsung. But you can't compare the two against firmware.
    Make that a Free Operating System.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-27-11 10:07 AM
  8. 01itr's Avatar
    I dunno, I think he is right comparing the Operating Systems instead of the Hardware Manufacturers. It is a more accurate way of comparing consumer interest. I'm pretty sure someone would choose an Android phone over an iPhone/BB because it is running Android, not because Samsung made it.
    Rooster99 likes this.
    07-27-11 10:19 AM
  9. Economist101's Avatar
    Actually it is necessary. You can't compare two smartphone manufacturers of smartphones with an Operating System. They're not all three the same. This is an unfair comparison. Compare Apple to RIM. Or Apple, RIM & Samsung. But you can't compare the two against firmware.
    "iOS" (Apple) is an operating system. "BB OS 4/5/6" (RIM) is an operating system. "Android" (HTC, Motorola, Samsung, etc) is an operating system.

    But since you're choking on this point, we'll change it up and see if the argument changes. Here's a comparison, smartphones only, and adding in Nokia, which I failed to do last time:

    Samsung: 18-21 million devices
    Apple: 20.2 million devices
    Nokia: 16.7 million devices
    RIM: 13.2 million devices

    Looks like the same result to me, with 1 of 5 devices being RIM's.
    07-27-11 10:19 AM
  10. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    "iOS" (Apple) is an operating system. "BB OS 4/5/6" (RIM) is an operating system. "Android" (HTC, Motorola, Samsung, etc) is an operating system.

    But since you're choking on this point, we'll change it up and see if the argument changes. Here's a comparison, smartphones only, and adding in Nokia, which I failed to do last time:

    Samsung: 18-21 million devices
    Apple: 20.2 million devices
    Nokia: 16.7 million devices
    RIM: 13.2 million devices

    Looks like the same result to me, with 1 of 5 devices being RIM's.
    And what's your point? I mean seriously? Nobody here is claiming RIM isn't in trouble. I've been quite vocal with my displeasure of the platform. I don't see anyone in this thread claiming they aren't in trouble. So what exactly are you trying to prove?
    Above is a fair comparison, not two actual manufacturers and software comparison.
    07-27-11 10:24 AM
  11. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    "iOS" (Apple) is an operating system. "BB OS 4/5/6" (RIM) is an operating system. "Android" (HTC, Motorola, Samsung, etc) is an operating system.

    But since you're choking on this point, we'll change it up and see if the argument changes. Here's a comparison, smartphones only, and adding in Nokia, which I failed to do last time:

    Samsung: 18-21 million devices
    Apple: 20.2 million devices
    Nokia: 16.7 million devices
    RIM: 13.2 million devices

    Looks like the same result to me, with 1 of 5 devices being RIM's.
    Dude, where do you get your numbers from? On previous page somebody posted the official numbers as of May 5 and they're nothing like your numbers.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-27-11 10:28 AM
  12. avt123's Avatar
    I dunno, I think he is right comparing the Operating Systems instead of the Hardware Manufacturers. It is a more accurate way of comparing consumer interest. I'm pretty sure someone would choose an Android phone over an iPhone/BB because it is running Android, not because Samsung made it.
    Yes. When you compare Android with iOS, RIM and everyone else, you use Android as a whole since it is the OS. This is of course you are just specifically comparing manufacturer revenue. If you are comparing OS to OS, you do not split it up by manufacturer. Just like OS marketshare is measured.

    When they compare Windows to OSX, they don't need to split it into every single manufacturer or take into account of how many self-built PCs are out there. They compare OS to OS.
    Laura Knotek and Rooster99 like this.
    07-27-11 10:46 AM
  13. Rooster99's Avatar
    We seem to have a lot of opinionated individuals who know exactly what RIM should do in terms of company leadership.
    One would assume that these individuals with these ideas would be able to delienate exactly how they themselves would change things at RIM. This would of course entail submitting a full proposal that we could review. I wonder why none of those individuals, particularly the loudest ones, have submitted such an enlightening document.
    Oh...wait....it's because they're armchair CEOs who haven't a clue and are just off blowing steam....such a 17 year old does in his basement, anonymously hiding behind a girlfriend's name on a web forum spewing nonsense.
    Got it.
    Then again, perhaps those furiously defending the status quo for a management team facing obvious challenges could be held to the same standard?

    That is, provide a full business case or be considered a 17 year old living in basements.

    RIM has problems. Questions about the legitimacy of a non-mainstream management structure are very legitimate. I'd ask them, and I know my sh!t.

    QBN, I don't always agree with you but normally respect your posts. Look in the mirror before you post stuff like this.

    - R.
    07-27-11 10:49 AM
  14. Rooster99's Avatar
    Do you object to a request for factual actionable plans rather than fluff?

    Until such a plan is publicised these bashes and rants are simply fluff.
    As are blind defences such as "Mike & Jim did great before all the problems started!"

    - R.
    07-27-11 10:52 AM
  15. southlander's Avatar
    Good point. Let's look at worldwide platform sales last quarter:

    iOS: 30+ million
    Android: 30+ million
    RIM: 13.7 million

    Hmmm. So in terms of platform sales, only 1 of ever 5 devices sold between these platforms is an RIM device. Too broad you say? Okay, let's look just at phones:

    Android: 30+ million
    iOS: 20.2 million
    RIM: 13.2 million

    Still nearly just 1 of 5, despite the U.K. success. So what exactly was your point?
    I'll give you that RIM vs. Apple is fair. Very similar in their selling model. In fact the iOS messenger stuff is basically Apple going directly after RIM's core feature on the consumer side.

    But Android is not a fair comparison. RIM has no chance of matching Android on units sold, and nor does Apple. And Android has no chance of providing a consistent experience across most/all devices.. not in the long run.
    07-27-11 10:52 AM
  16. Rooster99's Avatar
    ... how they run it at the top is not my concern or yours really

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Actually, as someone trying to decide on a mobile platform direction for their company, I'm quite concerned about how things are run at the top.

    Something to do with ensuring our investment will be protected as this is a business decision on a business device. You know, standard business decision criteria?

    - R.
    07-27-11 10:55 AM
  17. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Then again, perhaps those furiously defending the status quo for a management team facing obvious challenges could be held to the same standard?

    That is, provide a full business case or be considered a 17 year old living in basements.

    RIM has problems. Questions about the legitimacy of a non-mainstream management structure are very legitimate. I'd ask them, and I know my sh!t.

    QBN, I don't always agree with you but normally respect your posts. Look in the mirror before you post stuff like this.

    - R.

    Rooster - I enjoy your posts and I always read then with interest.
    To note...I am not defending the status quo. I have never defended the CEOs...if I have, I'd like to know when.
    What I'm saying is simply offer an actionable alternative rather than pile on the bashing.
    I regret that you and I disagree on this one.
    07-27-11 10:55 AM
  18. Rooster99's Avatar
    Yet it worked just fine when they took the company from zero and sold 1.5 million devices in a quarter 5-6 years ago to 13 millions now, all of the sudden it's a bad idea and one has to go.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Adapt or die. It's pretty simple.

    - R.
    avt123, howarmat and psufan32 like this.
    07-27-11 10:57 AM
  19. howarmat's Avatar
    Dude, where do you get your numbers from? On previous page somebody posted the official numbers as of May 5 and they're nothing like your numbers.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Samsung May Have Surpassed Apple, Nokia in Second-Quarter Smartphone Sales - Bloomberg

    may was a little while ago, there are newer numbers available
    07-27-11 10:58 AM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Actually, as someone trying to decide on a mobile platform direction for their company, I'm quite concerned about how things are run at the top.

    Something to do with ensuring our investment will be protected as this is a business decision on a business device. You know, standard business decision criteria?

    - R.
    Do you apply the same mentality when you buy a new car, tv, toaster or motorcycle? Do you really look at the CEO performance?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-27-11 11:01 AM
  21. grover5's Avatar
    Actually, as someone trying to decide on a mobile platform direction for their company, I'm quite concerned about how things are run at the top.

    Something to do with ensuring our investment will be protected as this is a business decision on a business device. You know, standard business decision criteria?

    - R.
    Haven't you been threatening to make this particular business decision for about two years now? I'm honestly asking. I seem to remember seeing you post this argument other times over the last couple years.
    07-27-11 11:01 AM
  22. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Here is a site that shows market share of OSes on computers, smartphones, and other devices such as game consoles.

    Operating system market share
    avt123 likes this.
    07-27-11 11:01 AM
  23. sportline's Avatar
    Its too late now to change tactic. Firing people just make it worse. Let them straighten up the plan and try to be discipline with product release, updates etc. if all fail consider hire another ceo, justin bieber? Haha

    Sent from my Dell Streak using Tapatalk
    07-27-11 11:01 AM
  24. Rooster99's Avatar
    Where is this data coming from? This are the figures I see from the IDC Worldwide Quarterly Mobile Phone Tracker



    Using this, RIM is just ~4.5% behind Apple when it comes to Smartphone sales. So if you want to use your way of x in x phones... It is safe to say that:

    Apple is selling ~19 out of every 100 phones sold
    RIM is selling ~14 out of every 100 phones sold

    Bringing this down to every 5 phones...

    Apple is selling 0.9 out of every 5 phones
    RIM is selling 0.7 out of every 5 phones

    Is this what you mean when you say "nearly"? If so, then Apple and RIM both sell "nearly" 1 in 5 phones

    Not that big of a difference if you ask me... Seems like people are still interested in their phones to me...
    Actually RIM is 25.6% behind Apple (use the delta between Apple & RIM shipments divided by Apple's). And that happened from Apple's start with the iPhone 4 years ago. Yup, that would scare the cr@p out of me.

    - R.
    07-27-11 11:03 AM
  25. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Samsung May Have Surpassed Apple, Nokia in Second-Quarter Smartphone Sales - Bloomberg

    may was a little while ago, there are newer numbers available
    Those are nothing but estimations it's in the title.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-27-11 11:04 AM
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