07-27-11 12:36 PM
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  1. olblueyez's Avatar
    Yes. isn't it?

    What *exactly* is your peeve? That I dare to say that if there are going to be criticisms those who criticise in the most strident fashion should offer up solutions? That expectation is at the root of progressive thiking towards a goal rather than simply bemoaning to the skies.
    I expressed no opinion on etiquette. I expressed an opinion on the lack of substance in so many of RIM leadership bashing posts.
    My challenge is simple - bash away but produce an alternative with merit. Otherwise it lacks credibility.
    I did offer a solution with merit but you have failed to write one word about it and you still harp and moan "at the skies" about the way people present ideas.

    I am not the one with a Peeve, and you have made it obvious that Peeved better describes you.

    I am not going to argue with you about circular nonsense any longer. You have failed to make one valid point this morning.
    Last edited by olblueyez; 07-27-11 at 07:27 AM.
    07-27-11 07:23 AM
  2. qbnkelt's Avatar
    As a professional I understand enough of business practices to understand that sometimes cuts happen. As someone who has to pay bills I am saddened that 2000 people lost their jobs in a terrible economy.
    Since I do not have insight into their plans I cannot state that they have changed nothing else. If someone produces a document with RIM's strategic planning that shows that this was their only way to deal with their current troubles I'd like to see it.
    07-27-11 07:25 AM
  3. olblueyez's Avatar
    As a professional I understand enough of business practices to understand that sometimes cuts happen. As someone who has to pay bills I am saddened that 2000 people lost their jobs in a terrible economy.
    Since I do not have insight into their plans I cannot state that they have changed nothing else. If someone produces a document with RIM's strategic planning that shows that this was their only way to deal with their current troubles I'd like to see it.
    Someone please find an idea in that tangled mess of absolutes in an ever changing world.

    Think maybe Google/Android & Eric + Open Source + Chrome Browser + Chrome OS + RIM/QNX might equal serious competition for Apple and Microsoft?

    Don't forget that People will turn to Open Source as an alternative to the uber expensive Apple and Microsoft.

    Is it not true that what RIM needs is lots of brilliant programmers like they have over at Google?

    Is it possible for us to connect the dots to form ideas?
    Last edited by olblueyez; 07-27-11 at 11:58 AM.
    07-27-11 07:31 AM
  4. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I did offer a solution with merit but you have failed to write one word about it and you still harp and moan "at the skies" about the way people present ideas.

    I am not the one with a Peeve, and you have made it obvious that Peeved better describes you.
    Actionable ideas. Plucking Schmidt from Google and putting him on RIM is hardly actionable.
    Of course I'm making it obvious that I am peeved at the nature of the criticisms. It's what I said to begin with.

    My peeve is exactly as I've said all along. People with no factual knowledge about RIM's plans criticising and bashing the company strategy with no actionable solutions to offer themselves. Of course there isn't an answer that will be given on a web forum. It is simply bashing. Lacks credence.
    07-27-11 07:32 AM
  5. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Someone please find an idea in that tangled mess of absolutes in an ever changing world.
    Do you object to a request for factual actionable plans rather than fluff?

    Until such a plan is publicised these bashes and rants are simply fluff.
    07-27-11 07:35 AM
  6. olblueyez's Avatar
    Actionable ideas. Plucking Schmidt from Google and putting him on RIM is hardly actionable.
    Of course I'm making it obvious that I am peeved at the nature of the criticisms. It's what I said to begin with.

    My peeve is exactly as I've said all along. People with no factual knowledge about RIM's plans criticising and bashing the company strategy with no actionable solutions to offer themselves. Of course there isn't an answer that will be given on a web forum. It is simply bashing. Lacks credence.
    So everyone who is not a RIM employee should pack it in and ditch exchanging ideas on Crackberry?

    Hey Lady, are you sure this is the place for you?

    Maybe this is a social thing for you.

    Did it ever occur to you those guys might read some of this and get a bulb over their heads?

    Sometimes "bashing" as you call it can be used for waking up the masses who let our leaders run amuck.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolt
    Last edited by olblueyez; 07-27-11 at 07:48 AM.
    07-27-11 07:43 AM
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    So everyone who is not a RIM employee should pack it in and ditch exchanging ideas on Crackberry?

    Hey Lady, are you sure this is the place for you?

    Maybe this is a social thing for you.

    Did it ever occur to you those guys might read some of this and get a bulb over their heads?

    Sometimes "bashing" as you call it can be used for waking up the masses who let our leaders run amuck.

    Revolt | Define Revolt at Dictionary.com
    Yeah, let's ruin a blackberry enthusiast forum in a hope Rim may or may not read your bashing. When i bought my first blackberry and when i fell in love with its ease and speed of use I had no idea who Mike or Jim or Rim was, how they run it at the top is not my concern or yours really

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by belfastdispatcher; 07-27-11 at 08:03 AM.
    07-27-11 07:58 AM
  8. psufan32's Avatar
    Because those two CEOs have put everything they had into creating RIM, all their money and time, took massive risks and created something amazing that changed the world.

    Profits drop by 10% and now you want them to go? Seriously?

    With manufacturing plants in Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Hungary and Malaysia and BES and BIS to support in so many countries, and governments to support in so many countries (Apple and Android don't have that worry yet)there's only so much one person do.

    Look at the big picture people.
    Where did RIM come in on the latest Fortune 500? 490ish?

    Now, how many of those companies larger than they are have 2 CEOs and 2 COOs? I can't say with certainty, but I'd wager that the answer is zero.

    It isn't a matter of, "There is only so much that one person can do." Duh. That's why a company such as RIM has thousands and thousands of employees.

    The issue is that the management structure at the top of RIM is a cluster****. Too many chiefs trying to lead the pack.
    Rooster99 likes this.
    07-27-11 08:00 AM
  9. qbnkelt's Avatar
    So everyone who is not a RIM employee should pack it in and ditch exchanging ideas on Crackberry?
    Not at all. I'm interesting in seeing the substantive ideas.


    Hey Lady, are you sure this is the place for you?
    to paraphrase Kevin, CB founder, this is a place where we gather and discuss and are united for our love of Blackberry. Yup...I'm fairly certain I'm in the right place. Otherwise I'd be in Android Central or an Apple site.

    Maybe this is a social thing for you.
    It absolutely is part of its allure. I have several new BBM contacts as a result of this site.



    Did it ever occur to you those guys might read some of this and get a bulb over their heads?
    hate to break this to you but it is well known that there are RIM folks on this forum. you can search. However, taking the CEOs to the guillotine is not something that will be entertained in the RIM boardroom.

    Sometimes "bashing" as you call it can be used for waking up the masses who let our leaders run amuck.

    Revolt | Define Revolt at Dictionary.com
    I believe the masses are awake. Isn't it your point that the RIM leadership is the one that is asleep at the helm? So should the masses go in and remove the CEOs? That's likely not going to happen. The masses would not be allowed in.

    Again, RIM's plans are unknown to us. Or do you have inside information?
    07-27-11 08:04 AM
  10. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Where did RIM come in on the latest Fortune 500? 490ish?

    Now, how many of those companies larger than they are have 2 CEOs and 2 COOs? I can't say with certainty, but I'd wager that the answer is zero.

    It isn't a matter of, "There is only so much that one person can do." Duh. That's why a company such as RIM has thousands and thousands of employees.

    The issue is that the management structure at the top of RIM is a cluster****. Too many chiefs trying to lead the pack.
    Yet it worked just fine when they took the company from zero and sold 1.5 million devices in a quarter 5-6 years ago to 13 millions now, all of the sudden it's a bad idea and one has to go.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-27-11 08:15 AM
  11. olblueyez's Avatar
    Not at all. I'm interesting in seeing the substantive ideas.
    Yet you offer none yourself and as an excuse you say "I know nothing about RIM, blah blah blah". Sounds like the kind of management style that ruins companies all the time, where ideas must be based on facts all the time. The word "brainstorm" mean anything to you? You think every great idea or invention came from a boardroom full of over bearing, out of touch, controlling, micromanaging, numb-nuts with a fortune in their pockets?


    to paraphrase Kevin, CB founder, this is a place where we gather and discuss and are united for our love of Blackberry. Yup...I'm fairly certain I'm in the right place. Otherwise I'd be in Android Central or an Apple site.
    Have you read any of my other posts or have you assertained my opinion of RIM based on what I think about the two guys running the place? What was it you said about "Factual"?



    It absolutely is part of its allure. I have several new BBM contacts as a result of this site.



    hate to break this to you but it is well known that there are RIM folks on this forum. you can search. However, taking the CEOs to the guillotine is not something that will be entertained in the RIM boardroom.
    I can only assume you make this statement with the knowledge that Lazaridis and Balsillie are in fact incapable of opening a browser and typing in www.crackberry.com. Are you that far gone?

    I believe the masses are awake. Isn't it your point that the RIM leadership is the one that is asleep at the helm? So should the masses go in and remove the CEOs? That's likely not going to happen. The masses would not be allowed in.
    Another gap in logic, the masses are the customers. You really are talking yourself into a corner.

    Again, RIM's plans are unknown to us. Or do you have inside information?
    www.crackberry.com
    Google
    07-27-11 08:25 AM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    As much as I'd like to believe it's true, I doubt Mike ever logs in to crackberry.com, not only because we represent a small minority of the blackberry user base but probably because Rim has a media monitoring department or a media monitoring company hired. I do courier work for such a company.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-27-11 08:36 AM
  13. psufan32's Avatar
    Yet it worked just fine when they took the company from zero and sold 1.5 million devices in a quarter 5-6 years ago to 13 millions now, all of the sudden it's a bad idea and one has to go.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    So, you are twisting your argument now.

    The counter to your new argument could be as follows:

    Blackberry has largely been a one trick pony. They had an idea, and hit it big with that idea. They've struggled, however, to move RIM forward since then. Yes, sales have increased as the cell phone and smart phone markets have increased. There will come a point in the very near future, however, when RIM's growth is going to plateau and then recede... if they continue with the one trick pony show.

    Apple, Google, and Microsoft have all moved beyond simply trying to develop a modern phone and are now focused on bringing it all together to deliver an integrated, streamlined mobile and cloud computing reality to consumers. Meanwhile, the co-CEO/co-COO structure in place at RIM is still struggling to deliver 2009 and 2010 level phones.
    Rooster99 likes this.
    07-27-11 08:40 AM
  14. sleepngbear's Avatar
    I did offer a solution with merit but you have failed to write one word about it and you still harp and moan "at the skies" about the way people present ideas.

    I am not the one with a Peeve, and you have made it obvious that Peeved better describes you.

    I am not going to argue with you about circular nonsense any longer. You have failed to make one valid point this morning.
    Hmmmm ... I see one rather glaringly significant point: all we know of RIM's plans is what has so far been made public, that being the elimination of 2,000 positions and a spate of departures from the management ranks. We have no idea where the cuts are in the former or what RIM's plans are to address the latter -- or even the exact reasons for those, for that matter. Sitting here criticizing a corporate strategy having absolutely no idea what the whole strategy is is pretty pointless. I don't know the whole story, Qubie doesn't know the whole story, and unless you're part of RIM's senior management team, it's a pretty safe bet that you don't know the whole story, either.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01itr likes this.
    07-27-11 08:46 AM
  15. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Yet you offer none yourself and as an excuse you say "I know nothing about RIM, blah blah blah". Sounds like the kind of management style that ruins companies all the time, where ideas must be based on facts all the time. The word "brainstorm" mean anything to you? You think every great idea or invention came from a boardroom full of over bearing, out of touch, controlling, micromanaging, numb-nuts with a fortune in their pockets?
    I don't have to. The burden of proof is on the accuser. In this instance the burden of proving a better plan is on those who have brought out the perceived inefficiencies in RIM leadership.
    Ideas must be presented within a factual framework giving specific laws. Whether you're talking about designing software or a dropping apple there are larger laws at stake. You can't design software without understanding the structure of the OS. You can't change a law without an understanding of the repercussions of that change. You must understand Nature if you are to change it.
    Undisciplined brainstorming in a boardroom without structure is not executable brainstorming and therfore is nothing more than intellectual masturbast1on. An individual personal goal with nothing to add to the project or program.
    Every invention has had to take into account the context where it is to work. I don't believe there is any such understanding of RIM's long term plans on this thread...is there?

    read any of my other posts or have you assertained my opinion of RIM based on what I think about the two guys running the place? What was it you said about "Factual"?
    I have read your posts in other threads and I have no objection to any of them nor to you personally. I don't know you from Adam.

    assume you make this statement with the knowledge that Lazaridis and Balsillie are in fact incapable of opening a browser and typing in www.crackberry.com. Are you that far gone?
    I make that statement because a few months ago it was announced that there are in fact RIM forum members.

    About the masses....do you see a mob with pitchforks coming into a RIM boardroom a la French Revolution to take out the CEOs much as the French mob ended the monarchy in France?

    Not bloody likely.
    Last edited by Qbnkelt; 07-27-11 at 08:53 AM.
    07-27-11 08:50 AM
  16. psufan32's Avatar
    Qbnkelt,

    This is a message board, not a business school case study.

    And, just because a poster is not offering alternatives to the status quo does not in turn make their critiques of RIM false, or less true.
    Rooster99 likes this.
    07-27-11 09:04 AM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    So, you are twisting your argument now.

    The counter to your new argument could be as follows:

    Blackberry has largely been a one trick pony. They had an idea, and hit it big with that idea. They've struggled, however, to move RIM forward since then. Yes, sales have increased as the cell phone and smart phone markets have increased. There will come a point in the very near future, however, when RIM's growth is going to plateau and then recede... if they continue with the one trick pony show.

    Apple, Google, and Microsoft have all moved beyond simply trying to develop a modern phone and are now focused on bringing it all together to deliver an integrated, streamlined mobile and cloud computing reality to consumers. Meanwhile, the co-CEO/co-COO structure in place at RIM is still struggling to deliver 2009 and 2010 level phones.
    Yet in UK the "2009" blackberry is the best selling mobile phone, markets are not universal around the world, clearly Rim is giving people what they want in UK and not Google's or Apples's "integrated, streamlined mobile and cloud computing reality to consumers"

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01itr likes this.
    07-27-11 09:13 AM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Bottom line is how much do you care about your car manufacture's management structure? Or you TV, Washing machine, computer, toaster etc?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-27-11 09:15 AM
  19. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Qbnkelt,

    This is a message board, not a business school case study.

    And, just because a poster is not offering alternatives to the status quo does not in turn make their critiques of RIM false, or less true.
    You got me on both counts.
    I'm used to dealing in situations where facts are addressed within the framework of an actionable goal.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-27-11 09:15 AM
  20. 01itr's Avatar
    Yet in UK the "2009" blackberry is the best selling mobile phone, markets are not universal around the world, clearly Rim is giving people what they want in UK and not Google's or Apples's "integrated, streamlined mobile and cloud computing reality to consumers"
    I know this may be stereotypical, but it seems that on these forums most of the American users tend to forget that there are other countries outside of theirs that actually matter. /flamesuitup
    07-27-11 09:16 AM
  21. Economist101's Avatar
    Yet it worked just fine when they took the company from zero and sold 1.5 million devices in a quarter 5-6 years ago to 13 millions now, all of the sudden it's a bad idea and one has to go.
    Newsflash: you can get away with things when your results are continually improving. On the way down? Not so much.

    As much as I'd like to believe it's true, I doubt Mike ever logs in to crackberry.com, not only because we represent a small minority of the blackberry user base but probably because Rim has a media monitoring department or a media monitoring company hired. I do courier work for such a company.
    I'm sure you're right. I mean, there aren't any bodyguards here to look after him.

    I don't necessarily believe that RIM's executive management should be replaced, but you can't deny the act that the co-CEOs have steered the ship right into this stem it's currently in, since there's no reason that a company that still makes a nine-figure profit should be going a full year between phone releases. None. I understand that they went back to the drawing board and decided on a hardware upgrade late in development, but as all the decisions were Mike and Jim's they really don't get credit for taking so long to realize their plan wasn't working.
    Last edited by Economist101; 07-27-11 at 09:25 AM. Reason: typo
    07-27-11 09:17 AM
  22. Economist101's Avatar
    I know this may be stereotypical, but it seems that on these forums most of the American users tend to forget that there are other countries outside of theirs that actually matter. /flamesuitup
    Good point. Let's look at worldwide platform sales last quarter:

    iOS: 30+ million
    Android: 30+ million
    RIM: 13.7 million

    Hmmm. So in terms of platform sales, only 1 of ever 5 devices sold between these platforms is an RIM device. Too broad you say? Okay, let's look just at phones:

    Android: 30+ million
    iOS: 20.2 million
    RIM: 13.2 million

    Still nearly just 1 of 5, despite the U.K. success. So what exactly was your point?
    07-27-11 09:24 AM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Good point. Let's look at worldwide platform sales last quarter:

    iOS: 30+ million
    Android: 30+ million
    RIM: 13.7 million

    Hmmm. So in terms of platform sales, only 1 of ever 5 devices sold between these platforms is an RIM device. Too broad you say? Okay, let's look just at phones:

    Android: 30+ million
    iOS: 20.2 million
    RIM: 13.2 million

    Still nearly just 1 of 5, despite the U.K. success. So what exactly was your point?
    And after you split Android between manufacturers?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-27-11 09:35 AM
  24. Economist101's Avatar
    And after you split Android between manufacturers?
    A split is unnecessary for a platform comparison.
    07-27-11 09:41 AM
  25. sportline's Avatar
    Lets see how 2012 go with new phones on qnx. competition does not come from handsets, but also from services. Someone may sell something similar to BES or BIS. Apple already tried I message..and cloud..what next? Maybe from microsoft, some enterprise solution?

    Sent from my Dell Streak using Tapatalk
    07-27-11 09:43 AM
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