[sportline]

agree with above.
rim wasted 2011 releasing rehashed bold and torch, curves etc. and the playbook.
don't know if there's anything interesting in any of the new 7 handsets.
the touchscreen storm #4 will have to fight iphone 5 and galaxy s2.
and then everything comes too late, september, october, then 2012. losing momentum.

[_StephenBB81]

@dandbj13

I am going to have to be my usual disagreeable self here

With RIM's Blackberry Playbook achieving FIPS within 4 months of release says RIM is STILL very focused on Business and Enterprise first. you don't build a consumer device around FIPS requirements. YES they are an evolving company, but any company that doesn't evolve is doomed to die a much faster death.
The Blackberry Bridge is very much a Business oriented tool for linking Smartphones + Tablets under 1 security infrastructure, to the consumer it doesn't seem innovative, to the IT manager having to manage devices this alleviates work, thus helping RIM with the challenges it faces today with IT departments getting pressure for more "fun" devices.

I would VERY much like an expansion on the idea that RIM has "lost" what have they "lost" market monopoly on business? well truthfully they never had that, they've always had Windows Mobile in the way of that.
Marketshare? well to be fair the Market they were in, and the Market they are not told they are in are very different, The Term Smartphone encompasses so much, RIM's true mistake was stumbling and trying to play the Mediaphone game with the Storm before understanding what the Mediaphone game was, RIM still very much dominates the business market though to a lesser degree than in the past, but that hasn't stopped them from growing each quarter.


RIM's lack of talent is not its inability to MAKE products the consumer wants, they lack the ability to Market products the consumer wants, not all consumers are created equal and RIM does make a product that appeals to many, but they don't know how to show people what they have or what they can do, and if consumers read the internet they would think ALL a blackberry can do is send emails and make phone calls.

as for the last paragraph I can't begin to say how much I disagree with the entire thing.

[dandbj13]

@dandbj13

I am going to have to be my usual disagreeable self here

No problem. I would have it any other way. In truth, I don't find you disagreeable. In the interest of not belaboring the issues, I will let our posts stand as is. We have both laid out our views. The readers can decide for themselves which ideas seem most reasonable.

I will say that you make a valid point about FIPS. But, I see that more as RIM not being sure who they want to be or what the PB is supposed to be for. There was a time when business focused devices could not have cameras because of security implications. Now, RIM wants to add video editing. This has nothing to do with business. This has to do with being confused about who you are, IMO.

Again, I will fight the urge to make a full rebuttal and acknowledge that you have a valid opinion, if not one I embrace. Thanks for a well reasoned response.

[_StephenBB81]

RE: FIPS + video editing

RIM offers Cameraless Playbooks and Blackberrys still.
But the video editing is part of the evolution I mentioned, Apple builds for the Consumer experience Apple believes in first, and then puts everything else in after the fact. RIM builds with Enterprise management first, and Adds user experience after.
The Apple model will sell more, the RIM model will be more secure.
Neither model is ideal, Apple is chasing FIPS while RIM chases Media.

Lucky RIM can buy Media, much more difficult to buy FIPS

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[qbnkelt]

The strategic acquisitions that let to FIPS certification are clear evidence that they know exactly who they still strive to be. No loss of focus on that.
Their expansion into the consumer market was flawed but recent acquisitions lead toward an equally studied approach to the consumer market.
RIM is aware they have two fronts and are stiving to meet the needs of both. FIPS certification is no easy achievement, yet they have it with their first tablet. Apple has been working on it for years for iOS. Android is nowhere close.

Also please note that there are still instances where phones with cameras are not allowed. That's the reason I have a 9650 with no camera as my work device. RIM's understanding of the secure environment is unparalleled. And they continue to produce for it.

[Economist101]

Lucky RIM can buy Media, much more difficult to buy FIPS

If RIM can "buy" media, and "media" is what the consumer wants, why not buy it? I mean, if it's as easy as this line suggests, why haven't they done it?

[lnichols]

RIM's offerings are bashed constantly by the haters and so called tech blogs and in the process compared to the "devinely inspired" iDevices. If RIM keeps going only business then this will continue to happen. Yet when they make moves to address so-called deficiencies that consumers demand when compare to the iDevices, like this video editing, then they are bashed for it too with people saying they don't have an identity or are trying to Applize.

Again Apple and Android were built for consumers and they are trying to get them to business/government. RIM builds for business/government and is trying to move to consumers. There is no product that provides the best of the full spectrum. Playbook and QNX handhelds have the most potential to cover the entire consumer/business/government spectrum with a single device because the OS is capable of doing everything iOS and Android can (and even more), and they have the certifications for the OS to be used in security conscience environments. The Playbook is laying the groundwork, R&D, etc for the QNX handhelds. If they release a QNX phone using the Tablet OS and same crypto kernel and an ARM v7 processor, based on my interpretation of the NIST security policy, it is FIPS approved at release! Cover their base firs and expand.

Imagine someone being issued a QNX phone, or buying their own QNX phone, that can do everything their Blackberry did, and has superior Web browser, and they can watch movies, listen to music, have plenty of apps, and play their damn Angry Birds. Compelling story. They are getting all the pieces in place now so that the QNX phones will be able to hit the ground running, unfortunately it meant the Playbook has to crawl, then walk, then run.

[chiefbroski]

all in all it's a nice a acquisition, why because it is not a standalone product, it is something which already works on the playbook via browser, as is now you may capture video on the playbook and edit using their product, what they are going to do bring it to the playbook as a native app in no time using webworks SDK and make the controls tablet friendly. Playbook got the flake for not the OS being buggy but having very limited functionality and RIM is trying to bridge that gap.

Yeah. The first iphone had the same problem with the limited functionality but still decent OS. In time RIM will develop the QNX OS into something great.

[anon(4018671)]

If RIM can "buy" media, and "media" is what the consumer wants, why not buy it? I mean, if it's as easy as this line suggests, why haven't they done it?

They just did...

[_StephenBB81]

If RIM can "buy" media, and "media" is what the consumer wants, why not buy it? I mean, if it's as easy as this line suggests, why haven't they done it?

RIM is in the process of putting those bits together.
Clearly it isn't as simple as process as just buying a solution since there is no single solution, but they are able to buy the bits, they just need to realize the bits they are missing which imo they have yet to fully grasp

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Jake Storm]

I don't know why people try to class phones as either "business" or "consumer" focused phones. Why can't they be both?
Why wouldn't a "consumer" want a "business" phone with great email and security.
I certainly do want security with all the malware/viruses out there and now with NFC technology I wan't to be sure that my phone isn't susceptible to drive-by hacking etc.
I think RIM is on the right track by offering secure "business" phones first and adding "consumer" features. The best of both worlds!
People should be more concerned about security. But, usually don't give it a second thought until they become a victim and then cry that nobody warned them.

[qbnkelt]

So true. Can't think of how many times I've read on this forum someone say they don't care about security. That the consumer doesn't care about security.
That's a rather head in the sand stand to take....I do care about it more than I care about being able to play Angry Birds or being able to watch a movie.
Go figure.

[lnichols]

Yep security doesn't matter until it matters. I'd rather have something built from the ground up with security in mind then as a bandaid solution after faults have been found. With all these new things like smartphones locating, unlocking and remote starting vehicles, home automation and integration with a security system to remotely arm/disarm, phones as payments with NFC, etc., etc., you would think people would see the bigger picture about security and smartphones. I guess it will take some cars getting stolen, houses robbed, and some NFC payments hacked to make people aware. Anyway it is obvious that the TabletOS is more powerful than any other mobile OS out there, and the most secure, so I'll stick with RIM and get security and ability to have apps/media/web/etc. If I have to wait a little longer for apps to be available then so be it.

[01itr]

Yep security doesn't matter until it matters.

Sadly this is so true

However, I think we will start seeing a stronger focus on these issues, especially with the most recent negative press Apple has been getting with their security issues:

iPhone hacked with zero-day font vulnerability | ZDNet

Apple MacBook Batteries Vulnerable to Malware, Destruction | PCWorld

Hackers’ Apple breach draws attention to security issues again - The Globe and Mail

"Apple could be a target, too" says hacker group Anonymous - International Business Times

[Rickroller]

I certainly do want security with all the malware/viruses out there and now with NFC technology I wan't to be sure that my phone isn't susceptible to drive-by hacking etc.

Lolwut? You need to remove the tinfoil hat dude. Wtf is someone going to steal from your cellphone? Your contact list? Passwords? Give me a break..

Here's what you need to do. Hire a security company that can leave your house a few hours before you do. Have them sweep your vehicle for bugs and inspect the neighbourhood for any suspicious "flower delivery" vans which might be harbouring some unsavoury characters just waiting to steal your $125 in your savings account. Or better yet..just hire Kevin Costner to be your bodyguard..I hear he's looking for work..

[Rickroller]

Sadly this is so true

However, I think we will start seeing a stronger focus on these issues, especially with the most recent negative press Apple has been getting with their security issues:

iPhone hacked with zero-day font vulnerability | ZDNet

Apple MacBook Batteries Vulnerable to Malware, Destruction | PCWorld

Hackers’ Apple breach draws attention to security issues again - The Globe and Mail

"Apple could be a target, too" says hacker group Anonymous - International Business Times

And with all these obvious security issues..how many real life incidents have you heard about? Please post real life news stories about cellphone hackers stealing money from someone due to these security flaws. Someone? Anyone? Bueller?

[01itr]

And with all these obvious security issues..how many real life incidents have you heard about? Please post real life news stories about cellphone hackers stealing money from someone due to these security flaws. Someone? Anyone? Bueller?

I'm not too sure if you are trolling... but I will continue anyways.

Firstly, your logic is absolutely ********. Following the same logic: since there haven't been any successful terrorist threats to our utility facilities (ie nuclear plants), we shouldn't even worry about that. Even though the FBI/CIA say that it is possible they are being targeted... but there hasn't been any real life stories about it, so it's irrelevant!!! (Department of Homeland Security terror report warns of 'significant insider threat' to U.S. utility facilities | Mail Online) Haha life is all fun and games amirite?

Secondly, Don't bank on your phone.

I'll take some excerpts out since I know you will be too bothered to read the whole article:

A new strain of Zeus, dubbed "Zitmo" (it stands for "Zeus in the mobile") has begun to exploit a huge hole in personal banking security: the smartphone in your pocket.

In the past fortnight, this malicious new version of Zeus, which attacks phones using the Android operating system, has sparked intense concern among security companies.

Are Apple iPhones safer than Android? MWR InfoSecurity says Apple's famed security from viruses doesn't quite translate to mobile devices. "Both platforms have problems," says the company.

At Trusteer, Boodaei forecasts that "within 12 to 24 months, more than one in 20 of all Android phones and iPads/iPhones could become infected by mobile malware

In FBI raids last year, co-ordinated with the British police and assisted by Dell SecureWorks, 90 gang members suspected of using Zeus to hack into computers and steal $70m were arrested, but the designer and developer of Zeus remains elusive.

BlackBerry phones are considered safer to use, as their maker, RIM, "keeps details of the platform a secret, which makes it much harder for attackers to write malware".

Before you start whining that I didn't give you a news article specifically saying "iPhones were hacked and money was stolen", see point 1.

I really do hope you were just trolling...

[Rickroller]

My logic is ********? And you're comparing terrorism to cellphone hacking? Lol..

And did you miss the whole point of your article..which states they were using the software to hack computers and not cellphones? Thanks for re-itterating my point..cellphone hacking is hardly a top priority of thieves (or terrorists in your opinion )

[Crucial_Xtreme]

And with all these obvious security issues..how many real life incidents have you heard about? Please post real life news stories about cellphone hackers stealing money from someone due to these security flaws. Someone? Anyone? Bueller?

Rick I totally see your point and agree with some of it. The average user doesn't have much to worry about, or steal. But as with loading beta firmware, something the average person doesn't do, people that frequent device specific forums don't necessarily fall into said category.

I think all people should worry about mobile banking. With the implementation of NFC tech, that's something everyone should start looking at as well. To be safe. Same with remote starting vehicles.

There are many that require the security features that BES brings to a company, the government is altogether a different story.

But the main security risk people face, is losing their phone entirely. Not so much hackers. But everyone has a valid that shouldn't be dismissed because of what ever reason.

[01itr]

My logic is ********? And you're comparing terrorism to cellphone hacking? Lol..

And did you miss the whole point of your article..which states they were using the software to hack computers and not cellphones? Thanks for re-itterating my point..cellphone hacking is hardly a top priority of thieves (or terrorists in your opinion )

I know its hard for you Apple kids to understand anything unless it's spoonfed to you, so I will try my best to get my point across.

1) I'm comparing your logic of "Oh well it's never happened so we shouldn't be worried about it" to another scenario. I didn't think that was hard to understand... clearly I overestimated your intelligence

2) I knew you wouldn't read the article, but I don't think you even read the quotes that I took from it... I will make them nice and big so you can see them okay?

A new strain of Zeus, dubbed "Zitmo" (it stands for "Zeus in the mobile") has begun to exploit a huge hole in personal banking security: the smartphone in your pocket.

In the past fortnight, this malicious new version of Zeus, which attacks phones using the Android operating system, has sparked intense concern among security companies.

I sincerely hope this has helped you understand my point. Please actually read this post before you respond. Thanks

[sportline]

well the playbook is so secure it can't have native email client. its native email goes thru a bluetooth connection to a bb handset. no other tablet got this feature and exclusivity.
and the bb handsets get truncated emails.

unfortunately the market responds and say no, that is not what we want - . security excuses won't make any cut today, maybe in 2006 - give us full functionality!
rim says, ok, we'll buy a video editing company, and fire 2000 people. as earlyas next week. sounds like a good plan? you happy?

[Rickroller]

I know its hard for you Apple kids to understand anything unless it's spoonfed to you, so I will try my best to get my point across.

1) I'm comparing your logic of "Oh well it's never happened so we shouldn't be worried about it" to another scenario. I didn't think that was hard to understand... clearly I overestimated your intelligence

2) I knew you wouldn't read the article, but I don't think you even read the quotes that I took from it... I will make them nice and big so you can see them okay?





I sincerely hope this has helped you understand my point. Please actually read this post before you respond. Thanks

I know you think this article is proving some kind of point for you..but it really isn't. Again..the article failed to mention any ACTUAL cellphone hacking incidents..only that it was a concern. What the article DID point out..was that this gang of 90 was targeting computers.

Now..while I'm sure you have some type of high profile government job (perhaps in espionage) or do some type of serious money transfers utilizing the latest and greatest in cellphone technology (I mean..you obviously have a BB..and we all know they ONLY have the latest and greatest in tech)..thus YOUR need for security..but the average user has no idea what's safe and what isn't. More people have to worry about leaving their debit/credit card behind in some bank machine before worrying about their cellphone.

But I'm glad you need that security..it makes me sleep well at night knowing your safe

[01itr]

I know you think this article is proving some kind of point for you..but it really isn't. Again..the article failed to mention any ACTUAL cellphone hacking incidents..only that it was a concern. What the article DID point out..was that this gang of 90 was targeting computers.

The article stated that people have stolen $70 million by using this Zeus virus, and that they were beginning to target smartphones, with the viruses already being spotted on some Android devices.

Now..while I'm sure you have some type of high profile government job (perhaps in espionage) or do some type of serious money transfers utilizing the latest and greatest in cellphone technology (I mean..you obviously have a BB..and we all know they ONLY have the latest and greatest in tech)

I have an iPhone4 and I'm a coop student at a small data company.

but the average user has no idea what's safe and what isn't

This will change soon. FBI Warns of Rises in Cell Phone Hacking | KEZI (By the way, that article also has "real life" stories of people getting malware on their phones, which has stolen information)

More people have to worry about leaving their debit/credit card behind in some bank machine before worrying about their cellphone.

Someone could do a lot more damage if they had mobile banking information than if they had someone's Credit Card / Debit Card. It takes 2 seconds to send a payment through my mobile bank, which does not require me to authenticate who I am, other than initially signing in. Trying to do the same thing with a Credit Card / Debit Card would be much harder.

[katiepea]

losing your phone is definitely the highest security risk out there, android has some nice facial unlock, and remote wipe features. i'm pretty sure BB has remote wipe now too? is it built into the OS or something you have to install? it's been about a year since i used BB

[lnichols]

losing your phone is definitely the highest security risk out there, android has some nice facial unlock, and remote wipe features. i'm pretty sure BB has remote wipe now too? is it built into the OS or something you have to install? it's been about a year since i used BB

Yes. Install. Shocking