[Coraya]

"Hey you have the new Classic!"

"Yup, sure do, love it. You a Crackberrian?"

"Yes sir I am! Got myself a Passport a few months ago"

Phone comparison begins.

"Hmmm wish I could use my keyboard as a trackpad...."

This is a stupid scenario, but I could see comparisons, in person, happening. Classic owners won't appreciate that Blackberry left the classic out of the touch sensitive keyboard department.

There is an argument though. Why have two trackpads on one device? The classic would have to be rid of the mini trackpad to accommodate the usefulness of the touch sensitive keyboard.

There are plenty of ideas I'm sure they've run through. One would hope.

Truly wish that Laz and balls picked up their game when they noticed that the market was getting more fierce a few years ago. Don't get me wrong, the 9900 was a great device. Thing is that it should not have been released 3 years ago. It should have been released 6 years ago. I don't think blackberry would be in the super tight spot that they're in right now.

Posted via CB Q10 or 9000

[Apollo_IV]

It is a better phone, sorry. It looks spectacular compared to that awkward Q10 and I'm sure this time it won't double type.

Deal with it.

[--TommesJay--]

People are saying that the classic is going to be the best selling phone upcoming with BlackBerry, like it's bread and butter. It may very well be but this is more of a PR thing and has nothing to do with it being a better phone or that it sports a belt.

The Q10 and the classic have essentially the same specs except one has a belt. The classic may have a larger display but with the same resolution pushing the ppi below the 300 mark. 300ppi may be somewhat of an arbitrary boundary marker defined by apple but like it or not it is the bar we measure by and if it's lower people don't like it.

What the real difference is when the Q10 was released and when the classic will be released BlackBerry has changed a lot. With the Q10 it was a too little too late... and then delayed then really too late. But now bb10 has matured and refined a lot more. BlackBerry is also no longer looked upon as a dying company but instead it is regaining it's ground on innovation and business. They are the same phone essentially and both will run 10.3.1 but the classic is essentially the phone launched under the now promising direction of BlackBerry rather than the dying one it was when the Q10 was released. And this is what will make the phone sell better.

It's too bad for the Q10 because it is a solid phone but because of when they were launch the Z10/Q10 era of phones were always doomed to relative failure until the company could get back on their feet. The classic is a rebranded Q10 with a belt thrown on but no one will ever admit it is the Q10's successor nor will there ever be a successor because the Q10 is associated with the old company that couldn't make it. Now the classic is the new company full of promise and innovation.

Of course it is all a PR thing and none if it really makes these phones better than the other but how we view something can be most of the battle and business users are no less ignorant or vain. I for one love my Q10 and will not be changing. Remember the Seinfeld episode with the beltless raincoat called the executive and somehow the missing belt made it better. well that's the Q10 to me, a beltless classic.

Posted via CB10

I don't really get the point of your post OP. I mean what's the issue? Is it that the phone you use (Q10) doesn't get enough credit and you find that unfair? Rumor has it enterprise customers didn't upgrade their fleet due to pricing and the belt missing on the Q10. Which is why they built a larger Q10 that has one at a lower price. It's giving your customers what they want. I don't see any PR whatsoever in this.

And btw AFAIK the Classic is getting the slightly more powerful Z30 SoC, not that of the Q10/Z10.

Posted via CB10

[--TommesJay--]

The keyboard is basically dead and 400k Passport sales won't change that.

It isn't the keyboard that's dead, it's screens too small because of keyboards that are dead. As long as the display is big enough, the keyboard is no downside.

Posted via CB10

[--TommesJay--]

What's the monetary incentive to switch away from the 9900 and BES5 to the Classic and BES12?
Well, there is none.

The incentive is that BES12 is a substantial upgrade that's backwards compatible. You can upgrade to BES12 and still use BES5 phones initially. Then when fleet renewal is due, you can choose from a wide range of devices, including a relatively cheap Classic that's basically the device people already know on steroids. Some will take it, others may go for Galaxy Minis, iPhones or whatever phone they want. If Classics are dirty cheap in bulk and offer some extra features with BES12 on top though.....I don't know. Doesn't sound too bad of a deal.


Posted via CB10

[--TommesJay--]

BYOD has cost BlackBerry a fortune and will continue to do so.

Since BES12 is basically a BYOD compatible system itself, I'm curious to know why.

Posted via CB10

[stevenjamesclark]

Z10 almost destroyed BlackBerry. Q10 saved it. I love the Q. But for Legacy users it can be difficult to use so the Classic makes sense.

Posted via CB10

[Mayor McCheese]

Spoiled QWERTY fans... all of you. us full touch are getting the shaaaaaaaft.

Posted via CB10

[luigieagle]

Sorry dude but it doesn't really matter what you want. You're in the minority. The q10 almost killed BlackBerry

Posted via CB10

I think the one who almost killed the company was the Storm. When Q10 came out Blackberry was already bleeding and in my personal opinion i think Q10 is a great phone. I got the iphone 6 and couldn't quit the Q10. I got both now because my Q10 is awesome!!!!

[Dave Bourque]

Spoiled QWERTY fans... all of you. us full touch are getting the shaaaaaaaft.

Posted via CB10

Qwerty fans didn't get much since Q10 release. It was their turn to get something good.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

It isn't the keyboard that's dead, it's screens too small because of keyboards that are dead. As long as the display is big enough, the keyboard is no downside.

Posted via CB10

Can you prove that, or is that yet another point you invented, to sugarcoat BlackBerry's strategy?

Apart from that: How big would a device have to be, when it has the display size of a Note 4, and a keyboard?

Why haven't we seen tablets with keyboards, in the candybar form factor?
And I don't mean hybrids like the Sony Vaio (which are funny products, but sadly flopped).

Physical keyboards on phones have been made obsolete, through the on demand virtual keyboard.
The whole history of keyboard phones, be it sliders or candybar designs, prove that.

But you'll never accept it, as it would mean that you have to accept that BlackBerry's strategy is a bad one.
Therefore, come back to me when BlackBerry sold so many Passports and Classics, that the keyboard niche exceeds or attains the 1% marketshare (I mean, even then nothing would have changed, and the strategy is still bad, but Keyboard phones at least passed the stage of having 0. something % of the market).

Until keyboard phones make a comeback and have a sizeable amount of the market again, what I say is true, because only then, has it been falsified.
And we both know that won't happen... So why even argue against reality?

Don't expect an answer if you reply, I am so done arguing the obvious with fanboys.

If Classics are dirty cheap in bulk and offer some extra features with BES12 on top though.....I don't know. Doesn't sound too bad of a deal.

Posted via CB10

Call me when it happened.

Qwerty fans didn't get much since Q10 release. It was their turn to get something good.

Posted via CB10

Because focusing on less than 0.5% of the market makes so much sense when you don't sell for 5 times the price of your competition.

Oh wait, it doesn't make sense :O
But yes, you are correct. It should have indeed finally happened.
The Q5 and Q10 weren't exactly glorious.
The Passport seems pretty awesome on the other hand.

Posted via CB10

[--TommesJay--]

Can you prove that, or is that yet another point you invented, to sugarcoat BlackBerry's strategy?

Gutfeeling based on hearsay. Whenever I heard people dismissing a keyboard phone it was "I couldn't give up on that screen real estate" or "yeah but the display is so small" or "oh how I loved my [insert landscape slider here], I wish someone would make one again". Barely did I hear "typing on glass is better". To me that gutfeeling doesn't mean to say it's only screen size for everybody, but clearly it isn't the keyboard itself that puts so many people off. I picked up the Passport the other day for the first time and the first thing you think when you do it "wow what a big a$$ screen!" although it has a keyboard. The screen, due to its width and aspect ratio, looks subjectively bigger than any other, even bigger than that of any phone with up to 5.2".

Posted via CB10

[--TommesJay--]

Can you prove that, or is that yet another point you invented, to sugarcoat BlackBerry's strategy?

Apart from that: How big would a device have to be, when it has the display size of a Note 4, and a keyboard?

Why haven't we seen tablets with keyboards, in the candybar form factor?
And I don't mean hybrids like the Sony Vaio (which are funny products, but sadly flopped).

Physical keyboards on phones have been made obsolete, through the on demand virtual keyboard.
The whole history of keyboard phones, be it sliders or candybar designs, prove that.

But you'll never accept it, as it would mean that you have to accept that BlackBerry's strategy is a bad one.
Therefore, come back to me when BlackBerry sold so many Passports and Classics, that the keyboard niche exceeds or attains the 1% marketshare (I mean, even then nothing would have changed, and the strategy is still bad, but Keyboard phones at least passed the stage of having 0. something % of the market).

Until keyboard phones make a comeback and have a sizeable amount of the market again, what I say is true, because only then, has it been falsified.
And we both know that won't happen... So why even argue against reality?

Don't expect an answer if you reply, I am so done arguing the obvious with fanboys.



Call me when it happened.



Because focusing on less than 0.5% of the market makes so much sense when you don't sell for 5 times the price of your competition.

Oh wait, it doesn't make sense :O
But yes, you are correct. It should have indeed finally happened.
The Q5 and Q10 weren't exactly glorious.
The Passport seems pretty awesome on the other hand.

Posted via CB10

I won't go through this argument again because the most of what you say is, sorry, shortsighted BS ignoring too many factors and we're just moving around in a circle here. Sorry but it had to be said. Let's give up. 0.5% blah blah blah, no matter how many times you write it, it won't give your argumentation any more substance.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

I won't go through this argument again because the most of what you say is, sorry, shortsighted BS ignoring too many factors and we're just moving around in a circle here. Sorry but it had to be said. Let's give up. 0.5% blah blah blah, no matter how many times you write it, it won't give your argumentation any more substance.

Posted via CB10

Says the guy who apparently doesn't have the slightest clue how prices evolve in a saturated and highly competitive market...
(hint: a race to the bottom is usually inevitable, for every non luxury/lifestyle positioned manufacturer/brand)

Or the guy who didn't learn anything about the past and what happened with keyboard phones (or portable CD players, video tape recorders etc).

Or maybe the guy who hasn't brought up any substantial argument in favour of the keyboard focused strategy, apart from... Well, now that I think about it, you never stated any argument apart from me being wrong. Which you couldn't prove though, so it gets pretty comical at that point.

When keyboard phones regain a sizable amount of the market, call me.
Until then, everything I have said about them is correct.

Btw, I think that you have no idea how much I will ridicule you when most of the things I said, will occur.
(the probabilities are on my side, I just have to let time do the rest)

Posted via CB10

[--TommesJay--]

When keyboard phones regain a sizable amount of the market, call me.

Yup and here we go again: you missing the point. My argument was never about 'keyboard phones regaining a sizable amount of the market', that was always just YOUR point. MY point tho was 'being profitable in the short term and whether the Passport and Classic in particular can accomplish this or not'. You were the one persisting on spinning all this into 'keyboards phones in general as a way to make BlackBerry a big device OEM in the mid to long term'. Are we done now?

Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

Why would anyone buy a BlackBerry ? Is it BB 10 and the hub or do they want a physical keyboard phone with a bigger screen and a modern OS. The answer is both. The market for a premium physical keyboard phone is very small but at least BlackBerry owns that market. The bottom line is that BlackBerry must offer all touch devices while still offering physical keyboard models. Eventually, if BlackBerry is successful, all touch models will be the bigger sellers.

[Coraya]

Yup and here we go again: you missing the point. My argument was never about 'keyboard phones regaining a sizable amount of the market', that was always just YOUR point. MY point tho was 'being profitable in the short term and whether the Passport and Classic in particular can accomplish this or not'. You were the one persisting on spinning all this into 'keyboards phones in general as a way to make BlackBerry a big device OEM in the mid to long term'. Are we done now?

Posted via CB10

Love the Crackberry passion in here lol.

Posted via CB Q10 or 9000

[--TommesJay--]

@MarsupilamiX

Btw, looks like the global smartphone market is going have a volume of 1,200-1,300M devices this year. Growth is still there (at around 25% currently). But just picking that 1,250M devices 'today' and thinking of Chen's claim to be profitable at 10M devices a year, yeah, you hear it, that's around 0.8% of the market....TODAY. This time next year, assuming market growth of a conservative 15%, it'll be down to 0.7%. Yup the numbers you use to comically ridicule BlackBerry's short term strategy for keyboard phones ALONE (*cough* *cough* Z3 *cough* Z30 successor *cough*) are already ENOUGH to make the phone division profitable and therefore support my arguments. Which, btw, were never that "keyboard phones are an awesome strategy" but rather "seems to make sense and isn't bad (opposed to what you claim constantly)".

So give me a call when.....wait... there's literally nothing that can happen to prove me wrong apparently. Other than BlackBerry indeed becoming a company flooding the market with expensive-to-make all touch devices nobody wants at insanely low price points of course. At which point the company will go bankrupt or get bought out for parts within 6-12 months.


Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

@MarsupilamiX

Btw, looks like the global smartphone market is going have a volume of 1,200-1,300M devices this year. Growth is still there (at around 25% currently). But just picking that 1,250M devices 'today' and thinking of Chen's claim to be profitable at 10M devices a year, yeah, you hear it, that's around 0.8% of the market....TODAY. This time next year, assuming market growth of a conservative 15%, it'll be down to 0.7%. Yup the numbers you use to comically ridicule BlackBerry's short term strategy for keyboard phones ALONE (*cough* *cough* Z3 *cough* Z30 successor *cough*) are already ENOUGH to make the phone division profitable and therefore support my arguments. Which, btw, were never that "keyboard phones are an awesome strategy" but rather "seems to make sense and isn't bad (opposed to what you claim constantly)".

So give me a call when.....wait... there's literally nothing that can happen to prove me wrong apparently. Other than BlackBerry indeed becoming a company flooding the market with expensive-to-make all touch devices nobody wants at insanely low price points of course. At which point the company will go bankrupt or get bought out for parts within 6-12 months.


Posted via CB10

BlackBerry is mainly concentrated in Canada, USA, UK, Nigeria, Indonesia . They sell in South Africa and Dubai but the numbers are not large. The USA, Canada, and UK are mature markets and not growing, mainly replacing. The main market for BlackBerry is replacing other BlackBerry's currently in use plus some converts from Android ( small numbers). I think 10 mill is doable but not by much.

[Bbnivende]

They used to post their market shares in the financial statements. Try this proxy. If you search Google Trends for BlackBerry for a recent period it will tell you the relative interest in individual countries around the world. Apple is not popular in every market either. BlackBerry is quite concentrated. Their best hope is in markets they have a decent base. There are lots of articles on the Internet citing the strength of BlackBerry in Indonesia and Nigeria. If BlackBerry wants to make an increase in device sales they need to manufacture in China, India and Indonesia.

[Mayor McCheese]

Qwerty fans didn't get much since Q10 release. It was their turn to get something good.

Posted via CB10

Yes but they only got every single blackberry phone except the z10 and z30 and ****ty storm. On the 10 platform alone it's now 4 qwerty's to 2 all touch... lol I just love my 30 and want a nice upgrade ahahha.

Posted via CB10

[ZeroBarrier]

Yes but they only got every single blackberry phone except the z10 and z30 and ****ty storm. On the 10 platform alone it's now 4 qwerty's to 2 all touch... lol I just love my 30 and want a nice upgrade ahahha.

Posted via CB10

QWERTY: Q10, Q5, Passport, P'9983

Full touch: Z10, Z30, Z3, P'9982

Seems to me that both QWERTY and full touch are only now on par. The release of the Classic will give the QWERTY devices only a 1 device lead.

Not to mention your Z30 is barely a year old now. What are your complaints if any about your year old Z30?

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

QWERTY: Q10, Q5, Passport, P'9983

Full touch: Z10, Z30, Z3, P'9982

Seems to me that both QWERTY and full touch are only now on par. The release of the Classic will give the QWERTY devices only a 1 device lead.

Not to mention your Z30 is barely a year old now. What are your complaints if any about your year old Z30?

Posted via CB10

Leave the Porsche phones out of it, as they aren't getting sold under the BlackBerry brand.

Then leave the Z3 out of it as well, since it's not available in 3/4 of the world and is an entry level phone nobody in "developed" nations would buy anyhow.

Oh, and add the Classic to the keyboard portfolio.
You just got the 2:4 split, and yes, I am totally serious here.
For most potential buyers, the situation is exactly like I described.

Posted via CB10

[ZeroBarrier]

Leave the Porsche phones out of it, as they aren't getting sold under the BlackBerry brand.

Then leave the Z3 out of it as well, since it's not available in 3/4 of the world and is an entry level phone nobody in "developed" nations would buy anyhow.

Oh, and add the Classic to the keyboard portfolio.
You just got the 2:4 split, and yes, I am totally serious here.
For most potential buyers, the situation is exactly like I described.

Posted via CB10

So you want to twist facts? Thanks, but no thanks.

As of today, they're are four BB10 QWERTY devices and four BB10 full touch devices.

Facts are facts. Deal with it.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

So you want to twist facts? Thanks, but no thanks.

As of today, they're are four BB10 QWERTY devices and four BB10 full touch devices.

Facts are facts. Deal with it.

Posted via CB10

No, it's not twisting facts.
Never have I said that the devices you talk about don't exist.

I describe the real world scenario, when th Classic will have launched.
What I describe is the choice the vaaaaaaast majority of potential BlackBerry buyers will face.

You on the other hand describe a theoretical scenario that basically has no meaning in the real world.

Posted via CB10