08-04-16 10:47 AM
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  1. Invictus0's Avatar
    Chen doesn't understand consumer hardware and wants out so he is doing what he can by tanking the hardware division without making it look like he is doing it on purpose. He is succeeding.
    BlackBerry was out of consumer hardware by the time Chen became CEO.

    BlackBerry to retreat from consumer market, lay off 4,500 employees | The Verge

    If you're up for some reading, this article highlights the effect of this announcement in Indonesia (I wouldn't be surprised if similar happened in other markets),

    Lack of global knowledge cost BlackBerry Indonesia - The Globe and Mail

    Priv vs. Z10. Z10 sold in much higher numbers than Priv did in the Forst 6 months. Z10 was expensive. I paid 750 CAD for it at a time, in February 2013 the CAD. Was 90 cents US or higher.
    How many units did the Z10 sell in its first six months? The link I posted above doesn't paint a very good picture and if we consider how much was spent to market BB10, it's entirely possible that the Priv was more "successful".
    06-29-16 03:11 PM
  2. Sairos's Avatar
    I read the globe and mail article, and I just want to highlight one sentence:

    “BlackBerry was a world-class product, Waterloo just mismanaged it”.
    Karan Riar and ayngling like this.
    06-29-16 03:25 PM
  3. sorinv's Avatar
    I'd buy that if BlackBerry 10 had predated IOS. But not shown up 6 years later. There's only so much 'originality' that can be made of "icons arranged on a grid on a touchscreen phone" these days. There's a reason Google abandoned its BlackBerry-killer and went full in on Android once it saw the iPhone. BB10 was way too late to the party.

    Passport SE, "The BlockBerry" - Cricket Wireless
    It was original in that it had true multitasking, a built in file manager, and a powerful hub that made it truly a mobile laptop.
    I have been trying for several years to convince myself that I may replace a bb10 phone with an iphone, but even the macbook 12inch is less functional than my Passport at those three functions which are the most important for me and my use scenario in a 21st century phone.
    But, as I wrote on other occasions, I know I use my phone quite unlike 99.9% of the population.
    06-29-16 05:05 PM
  4. sorinv's Avatar
    BlackBerry was out of consumer hardware by the time Chen became CEO.

    BlackBerry to retreat from consumer market, lay off 4,500 employees | The Verge

    If you're up for some reading, this article highlights the effect of this announcement in Indonesia (I wouldn't be surprised if similar happened in other markets),

    Lack of global knowledge cost BlackBerry Indonesia - The Globe and Mail



    How many units did the Z10 sell in its first six months? The link I posted above doesn't paint a very good picture and if we consider how much was spent to market BB10, it's entirely possible that the Priv was more "successful".
    Z10 sold over 1M in the first quarter and is the highest sold BB10 phone.
    BB10 phones still sell in higher numbers than the Priv even during the last quarter, although they are at least 1.5 years old.
    06-29-16 05:08 PM
  5. sorinv's Avatar
    Wha? 6 months? The effort spanned a couple of years with zero results. They threw money at it, they offered promos, they had developer conferences. For 2 years they tried, and had zero success.
    As Chen admitted recently, he started android a month or two after he joined. At that time the decision had already been made to kill BB10. No advertising and no carrier support until Priv came out.
    So, no. They only tried until September 2013 when the company was put up for sale.
    06-29-16 05:10 PM
  6. sorinv's Avatar
    Let's not forget that Chen has spent over 1B dollars buying companies to fake an increase in software revenue. At least the 1B dollar write-off for unsold z10 phones was partially recovered in later sales, after Chen joined.
    06-29-16 05:16 PM
  7. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    true multitasking
    Oh, you're pulling my leg.
    Last edited by DrBoomBotz; 06-29-16 at 06:06 PM.
    cribble2k and JeepBB like this.
    06-29-16 05:28 PM
  8. TgeekB's Avatar
    Don't you think the Z10 sold in higher numbers because it was the first BB10 phone and all the loyalists (myself included) had been waiting for it so we ran out and bought it? Disappointment set in and it has been downhill since. I don't know, that's what I think anyway.
    cribble2k, Sairos and JeepBB like this.
    06-29-16 05:33 PM
  9. Invictus0's Avatar
    Z10 sold over 1M in the first quarter and is the highest sold BB10 phone.
    BB10 phones still sell in higher numbers than the Priv even during the last quarter, although they are at least 1.5 years old.
    Can you provide a source to those sales figures please? The article I linked to implies they could be less than that,

    The massive loss is mainly attributable to the disastrous sales performance of the company's Z10 smartphone, its first to run its new BlackBerry 10 OS. BlackBerry says it will take a "primarily non-cash, pre-tax charge against inventory and supply commitments in the second quarter of approximately $930 million to $960 million" due mainly to the Z10. In the second quarter, the company shipped just 3.7 million smartphones, most of which were running BlackBerry 7, the company's older operating system. The company was shy in revealing exactly how many BlackBerry 10 devices it sold last quarter.
    BlackBerry to retreat from consumer market, lay off 4,500 employees | The Verge
    06-29-16 05:45 PM
  10. Sairos's Avatar
    Don't you think the Z10 sold in higher numbers because it was the first BB10 phone and all the loyalists (myself included) had been waiting for it so we ran out and bought it? Disappointment set in and it has been downhill since. I don't know, that's what I think anyway.
    Yeah it was pretty much like that.. Lots of people were still willing to stick with BlackBerry back then..
    06-29-16 05:51 PM
  11. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    As Chen admitted recently, he started android a month or two after he joined. At that time the decision had already been made to kill BB10. No advertising and no carrier support until Priv came out.
    So, no. They only tried until September 2013 when the company was put up for sale.
    Apparently you've lost track of how much time and resources had already been expended on BB10 by the time Chen even arrived.

    When Chen arrived, BB10 had already been released for nearly a year, and that's not even taking into account the entire year before the first BB10 phone was released but had developer promotions at the advent of the Playbook's release. Chen gave more than a year after that for it to prove itself. Including the abysmal plans for promotion. He gave every opportunity. His plans for alternative directions ran parallel, and not in direct opposition.

    By the time Chen arrived, BB10 had already had every opportunity to prove itself, and failed (and even then Chen let the overall plan continue for another year). Ecosystem development included. Don't try to dump the failure on Chen. Chen came in to clean up the miserable mess left by his predecessors who screwed the pooch with BB10. Of which he's doing a fine job. Perhaps not in the eyes of those who only wish to judge BBRY's success by their own personal desires to purchase BB devices. But as a whole, BBRY as a company is doing a lot better now.

    But hey. Let's still blame Chen for the BB10 failure, despite it having failed before he even came into the equation.
    Last edited by DenverRalphy; 06-29-16 at 06:54 PM.
    JeepBB likes this.
    06-29-16 06:23 PM
  12. silversmith75's Avatar
    Apparently you've lost track of how much time and resources had already been expended on BB10 by the time Chen even arrived.

    When Chen arrived, BB10 had already been released for nearly a year. Chen gave more than a year after that for it to prove itself. Including the abysmal plans for promotion. He gave every opportunity. His plans for alternative directions ran parallel, and not in direct opposition.

    By the time Chen arrived, BB10 had already had every opportunity to prove itself, and failed (and even then Chen let the overall plan continue for another year). Ecosystem development included. Don't try to dump the failure on Chen. Chen came in to clean up the miserable mess left by his predecessors who screwed the pooch with BB10. Of which he's doing a fine job. Perhaps not in the eyes of those who only wish to judge BBRY's success by their own personal desires to purchase BB devices. But as a whole, BBRY as a company is doing a lot better now.

    But hey. Let's still blame Chen for the BB10 failure, despite it having failed before he even came into the equation.
    He sure did. Released no upgrade path for the millions that did by bb10. Released crap phones other than passport. So it left people to either suffer through or head to the hills.

    #luvmybb10os
    06-29-16 06:51 PM
  13. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    He sure did. Released no upgrade path for the millions that did by bb10. Released crap phones other than passport. So it left people to either suffer through or head to the hills.

    #luvmybb10os
    You're delusional, BB10 phones were released and they were not bought, end of story.

    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    06-29-16 06:54 PM
  14. Timothius01's Avatar
    Anticipating that many of you would be unable to restrain yourselves from reciting why BlackBerry was justified in abandoning BB10, I said in my original post, "I don't need to hear a chorus of why Chen did this, that, and the other. The same decisions could have been made while demonstrating that BlackBerry truly appreciates those who believed in, and stuck with, the company during its bleakest times."

    My issue is not with the decisions BlackBerry made in an effort to survive. My issue is with the squandering of customer goodwill. I don't care what product or service one is selling, I still believe a business's greatest asset is the customers that patronize it. It can only inure to a company's benefit when it makes its customers feel appreciated, and it can only work to its detriment when its customers feel unappreciated and disrespected.

    From my perspective as a business owner myself, it seems that BlackBerry's failure to show any meaningful care or concern for its BB10 base has been so extreme that the disaffection it has engendered seems far from incidental. It seems intentional. But that begs the question, "Why?" What does BlackBerry stand to gain from turning off its own base--its most devoted customers? Hence my original question: "Is Chen's neglect of the BB10 base a deliberate attempt to force them to adopt Android?"

    #I<3BB10
    06-29-16 08:02 PM
  15. conite's Avatar
    From my perspective as a business owner myself, it seems that BlackBerry's failure to show any meaningful care or concern for its BB10 base has been so extreme that the disaffection it has engendered seems far from incidental. It seems intentional. But that begs the question, "Why?" What does BlackBerry stand to gain from turning off its own base--its most devoted customers? Hence my original question: "Is Chen's neglect of the BB10 base a deliberate attempt to force them to adopt Android?"

    #I<3BB10
    I fail to see this supposed neglect.

    Devices sold in early 2013 are still getting the most recent OS updates, and will continue to see security patches for at least another year.

    The devices still function as advertised, and technical and warranty support continue as normal.
    JeepBB and ayngling like this.
    06-29-16 08:13 PM
  16. jope28's Avatar
    I fail to see this supposed neglect.

    Devices sold in early 2013 are still getting the most recent OS updates, and will continue to see security patches for at least another year.

    The devices still function as advertised, and technical and warranty support continue as normal.
    Agreed.
    My Q10 is 3 years old and is still doing its thing like a champ.
    (except for a screen burn-in issue, but that's from use and abuse usage lol)

     Passport/SQW100-3 .2876 CB10 
    06-29-16 08:32 PM
  17. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    I fail to see this supposed neglect.

    Devices sold in early 2013 are still getting the most recent OS updates, and will continue to see security patches for at least another year.

    The devices still function as advertised, and technical and warranty support continue as normal.
    The neglect is actually the OPs. He feels in someway scorned even though BB10 devices are functioning as they were.

    Posted via CB10
    06-29-16 09:04 PM
  18. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Z10 and Bb10 were original, creative, an entire ecosystem which would have evolved and sold better if the BlackBerry board had been behind it longer than just 6 months.
    If they'd stood behind it full-force for very much longer, the whole company wouldn't exist today. They were burning through cash at an incredible rate (they had about 7,000 more employees then their current count of about 4,500 today, for example), and not only did they have to write down the value of their inventory by $1B after only 6 months, they also had to write down another $4.4B of company value a few months later due to the drain caused by BB10.

    If Fairfax had not stepped in and loaned BB $1.25B (which they still have to pay back), BB would have likely been bankrupt even with all the cuts they made. Had they not made those cuts, they'd have ran out of money before spring of 2014 and the Classic, Leap, and Passport would have never seen the light of day.

    Is that how they'd have been better off? I really doubt it.
    JeepBB, Jerry A and cribble2k like this.
    06-29-16 09:15 PM
  19. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Many BB10 lovers, including me, are clinging tenaciously to their BB10 devices despite the lack of apps and the lack of meaningful attention from Chen or BlackBerry.
    What kind of meaningful attention are you seeking?
    cribble2k likes this.
    06-29-16 09:24 PM
  20. Sairos's Avatar
    When the Priv was released, I thought well.. Here is a dilemma for BlackBerry users.. Now they'll have some sort of identity crisis.. but I never thought the divide would be that huge.. Its like a bloody religious war!

    BB10 was doomed years ago due to the lack of Apps.. No matter how much money they throw on BB10, it won't get developers to do anything for it.. You've to have a huge base of users for your OS to be appealing enough in the eye of any developer.. Going with Android was the right choice to salvage what's left..

    Being a fan of a company is about wanting the best for it.. The only way to sell phones is Android.. And its the only way for BlackBerry to still support BB10 by any means, Security or any other way.. If you dream of seeing BB10 survive or even a BB10 device.. You should support the company's efforts with Android.. Because that's where the $ is..

    Lets wrap this up please and enough BB10 Vs Android BS.. They're all BlackBerry Devices in the end.
    Karan Riar likes this.
    06-29-16 10:34 PM
  21. jope28's Avatar
    When the Priv was released, I thought well.. Here is a dilemma for BlackBerry users.. Now they'll have some sort of identity crisis.. but I never thought the divide would be that huge.. Its like a bloody religious war!

    BB10 was doomed years ago due to the lack of Apps.. No matter how much money they throw on BB10, it won't get developers to do anything for it.. You've to have a huge base of users for your OS to be appealing enough in the eye of any developer.. Going with Android was the right choice to salvage what's left..

    Being a fan of a company is about wanting the best for it.. The only way to sell phones is Android.. And its the only way for BlackBerry to still support BB10 by any means, Security or any other way.. If you dream of seeing BB10 survive or even a BB10 device.. You should support the company's efforts with Android.. Because that's where the $ is..

    Lets wrap this up please and enough BB10 Vs Android BS.. They're all BlackBerry Devices in the end.
    Well, I love me some blackberry juice, but have no desire for an Android phone (a tablet is enough Android for my blood).

    We can root and cheer for the Priv because it's good for the company while using BB10 and not even considering BlackBerry Android for ourselves.

    I recommend the discounted Privs to anyone that is in the market for an Android phone. It's a good buy at the moment for the $300 it's going for.

    For myself though, I wouldn't consider a BlackBerry Android since I'd hope to remove the Google stuff from an Android phone I'd own.
    If I went Android, it would have to be a device that I could root like my Android tablet and install AdAway or modify the Host file.

    Am hoping the Android stuff does well for BlackBerry financially, but BB10 will hopefully hold me over for a while longer since it meets my needs even with its app situation.

     Passport/SQW100-3 .2876 CB10 
    Sairos likes this.
    06-29-16 11:02 PM
  22. Sairos's Avatar
    We can root and cheer for the Priv because it's good for the company while using BB10 and not even considering BlackBerry Android for ourselves.
    Exactly, you go for BB10 while rooting for the company's efforts with Android.. That's what we want to see from everyone here.. There is the Passport & the Classic.. and they'll be there for years to come even if they don't make them anymore.. Plenty of stock to last for ages.. There is the Priv for people who need the apps.. The most optimistic person didn't expect BlackBerry to still be in Business until 2016.. Hell we're still in Business and releasing two more devices, which is fantastic for everyone..

    Arguing won't do us any good, it won't get developers to support BB10 with apps.. It won't take us back in time.. If the Tech world out there gives a damn about BlackBerry, they would've been laughing at us for constantly arguing about the two OSs.. "Fans of BlackBerry having a civil war".

    Enough arguing and lets move on.. We shouldn't entertain any threads about BB10 Vs Android..

    Whether you're BB10 or Android, You're BlackBerry..
    06-29-16 11:23 PM
  23. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    What kind of meaningful attention are you seeking?
    Medical attention? Specifically Psychiatric.
    06-30-16 05:29 AM
  24. ToniCipriani's Avatar

    I recommend the discounted Privs to anyone that is in the market for an Android phone. It's a good buy at the moment for the $300 it's going for.
    As a Priv owner I actually hoped you didn't, at least not until they sorted out the update fiasco with AT&T. Having the phone with Lollipop actually gives off a negative experience, not to mention it's not really helping their bottomline if they wrote off that inventory already.
    06-30-16 05:36 AM
  25. xiaobaizz's Avatar
    I would like to file a petition to ask John Chen to step down as BlackBerry CEO. Anyone in?


    Posted via CB10
    06-30-16 07:23 AM
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