08-04-16 10:47 AM
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  1. Sairos's Avatar
    I think we give BlackBerry's board of directors too much credit when we say they tried and failed with BB10. They didn't try hard enough. It's only been three years since the release of BB10 devices and they are giving up on it already. Android was launched in 2008 and it took it sometime too for its numbers to increase. Think what would have happened if Google had given up too in its second year



    Attachment 403016

    BlackBerry BB10 forever
    I think the only way for BB10 to work, would've been its release around 2010/2011.. They made their move too late..

    The Current board is to be blamed for failing to make the Priv sell.. However Google's android was launched at a time where all people were scattered around different OSs, Like Nokia's Symbian.. BBOS.. iOS.. So it made sense for google to keep sticking with Android in order to gain users.

    Bb10 came out when the world was already unified around 2 dominant OSs.. Android & iOS.. So the status quo was impossible to defeat.. It was simply too late, BB10 should've been launched earlier.
    06-28-16 01:55 PM
  2. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    I think we give BlackBerry's board of directors too much credit when we say they tried and failed with BB10. They didn't try hard enough.
    Sure, whatever.
    What's your point?
    06-28-16 01:56 PM
  3. Jerry A's Avatar
    I think we give BlackBerry's board of directors too much credit when we say they tried and failed with BB10. They didn't try hard enough. It's only been three years since the release of BB10 devices and they are giving up on it already. Android was launched in 2008 and it took it sometime too for its numbers to increase. Think what would have happened if Google had given up too in its second year



    Attachment 403016

    BlackBerry BB10 forever
    Please tell me how you account for the fact that the smartphone market was young and open for innovation and adoption in 2008 (Android's release) compared to 2013 (BB10 release) at which time it had matured and formed the natural market dynamics around the Apple and Android ecosystems.

    Could you further expound on how other companies faltered in that timeframe (Palm, Microsoft, Nokia) and yet this shouldn't be viewed as a leading indicator for BB10.

    Explain BB10's poor initial quarter pickup compared to any other launched smartphone platform (major ones only please - no need to pick on FirefoxOS).

    (Layman's Analogy)
    Look, I like apples AND oranges. I even put them in the same fruit bowl. But I don't pretend they're the same thing.
    Sairos, sentimentGX4 and cribble2k like this.
    06-28-16 02:04 PM
  4. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I think we give BlackBerry's board of directors too much credit when we say they tried and failed with BB10. They didn't try hard enough. It's only been three years since the release of BB10 devices and they are giving up on it already. Android was launched in 2008 and it took it sometime too for its numbers to increase. Think what would have happened if Google had given up too in its second year

    Attachment 403016

    BlackBerry BB10 forever
    Sorry but Android sale might have started small, but they grew (doubled most those early years) each year. BB10 sales pretty much fell every quarter after that first full quarter. Support from developers and other companies either never came or it started to fade away... Heck even their number one fan hung up the cap after six months....

    I'm not sure what some here expected of BB10, once it was clear that people were not buying BB10 devices in large enough volume to even allow it to surpass the fading BBOS userbase. At best they might have stabilized sales between 1 - 2 million devcies a year... far short of the money required to keep the handset division operational with the cost associated with BB10 hardware and software.
    TgeekB, Sairos and cribble2k like this.
    06-28-16 02:05 PM
  5. sorinv's Avatar
    Some people fail to understand that BlackBerry runs a business, not a charity.
    They certainly do not appear to do so since Chen came.
    He has done his very best to put his foot in every phone launch and reduce revenues and spend cash quarter upon quarter.
    Very soon his mission will be accomplished.
    Even Obama has abandoned his BlackBerry for an android Samsung (not Priv!).
    Soon all government business will be gone and so will the software business.
    06-28-16 02:33 PM
  6. sorinv's Avatar
    Please tell me how you account for the fact that the smartphone market was young and open for innovation and adoption in 2008 (Android's release) compared to 2013 (BB10 release) at which time it had matured and formed the natural market dynamics around the Apple and Android ecosystems.

    Could you further expound on how other companies faltered in that timeframe (Palm, Microsoft, Nokia) and yet this shouldn't be viewed as a leading indicator for BB10.

    Explain BB10's poor initial quarter pickup compared to any other launched smartphone platform (major ones only please - no need to pick on FirefoxOS).

    (Layman's Analogy)
    Look, I like apples AND oranges. I even put them in the same fruit bowl. But I don't pretend they're the same thing.
    Well, the launch of BB10 was 10 times more successful than the launch of the android Priv.
    06-28-16 02:36 PM
  7. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Many BB10 lovers, including me, are clinging tenaciously to their BB10 devices despite the lack of apps and the lack of meaningful attention from Chen or BlackBerry. But, from the way BlackBerry teased BB10 users when it first revealed what would turn out to be the Android-running Priv to the recent attention that IOS and Android BBM video has gotten with BB10 being left out, it seems that BlackBerry doing absolutely nothing to retain, let alone woo, it's foundational users.

    I understand about BlackBerry making decisions to improve its bottom line, so I don't need to hear a chorus of why Chen did this, that, and the other. The same decisions could have been made while indicating that BlackBerry truly appreciates those who believed in, and stuck with, the company during its bleakest times.

    Instead, I have the distinct impression that as I hang on to the flotsam and jetsam that was once the proud ship BlackBerry, the captain is prying my fingers from the debris. Does anyone else feel Chen is actively and intentionally trying to cull it's BB10 loyalist from the ranks, so the platform can die--at least for consumers--and Chen will have the cover of saying he was committed to BB10 but discontinued it because of lack of user interest?

    #I<3BB10
    Yes. They are attempting to force people to drop BB10.
    06-28-16 02:36 PM
  8. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Well, the launch of BB10 was 10 times more successful than the launch of the android Priv.
    Then why wasn't there a billion-dollar write-down of unsold Priv inventory?
    sentimentGX4 likes this.
    06-28-16 02:42 PM
  9. togarika's Avatar
    Sorry but Android sale might have started small, but they grew (doubled most those early years) each year. BB10 sales pretty much fell every quarter after that first full quarter. Support from developers and other companies either never came or it started to fade away... Heck even their number one fan hung up the cap after six months....

    I'm not sure what some here expected of BB10, once it was clear that people were not buying BB10 devices in large enough volume to even allow it to surpass the fading BBOS userbase. At best they might have stabilized sales between 1 - 2 million devcies a year... far short of the money required to keep the handset division operational with the cost associated with BB10 hardware and software.
    BlackBerry failed to manage their transition from BBOS to BB10 well. Firstly the dumped all their developers by not making BB10 back compatible with BBOS apps. Secondly BES10 at launch was not compatible with BBOS devices. Thirdly, it is true that they came into the game late but their short coming was failure to differentiate themselves from the competition. Besides security, why would anyone want to buy a BlackBerry? They spent to much time and money trying to close a up gap the wrong way and it killed developer interest. The best way to close the app gap is to increase device sales, developers follow were the money is. BB10 has a lot of untapped potential that they could have leveraged to introduce innovative solutions like connected devices, IoT.



    BlackBerry BB10 forever
    06-28-16 03:07 PM
  10. togarika's Avatar
    Then why wasn't there a billion-dollar write-down of unsold Priv inventory?
    They didn't make as many as when they launched BB10.

    BlackBerry BB10 forever
    06-28-16 03:08 PM
  11. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    BlackBerry failed to manage their transition from BBOS to BB10 well. Firstly the dumped all their developers by not making BB10 back compatible with BBOS apps. Secondly BES10 at launch was not compatible with BBOS devices. Thirdly, it is true that they came into the game late but their short coming was failure to differentiate themselves from the competition. Besides security, why would anyone want to buy a BlackBerry? They spent to much time and money trying to close a up gap the wrong way and it killed developer interest. The best way to close the app gap is to increase device sales, developers follow were the money is. BB10 has a lot of untapped potential that they could have leveraged to introduce innovative solutions like connected devices, IoT.



    BlackBerry BB10 forever
    I agree they made those mistakes and more.... just don't see how they fix it at this point. Without spending billions of dollars....

    IoT is a catch phrase... what does it mean? For most consumers IoT is smart devcies like NEST Devices, any number of "smart home" systems from a number of manufactures (who don't use QNX). They are like any other developer, they go where the users are. Most of BlackBerry's dreams of IoT deals with industrial or commercial applications... and it's all related to QNX which is not BB10.

    So, sorry just don't see any reason for BlackBerry to "invest" in BB10 anymore than they have indicated they were going to.
    Sairos likes this.
    06-28-16 03:26 PM
  12. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Well, the launch of BB10 was 10 times more successful than the launch of the android Priv.
    What is your definition of success? For most business it's making a profit... by that definition I think the PRIV might have actually come closer to winning.... but neither is a success.
    06-28-16 03:34 PM
  13. Sairos's Avatar
    I agree they made those mistakes and more.... just don't see how they fix it at this point. Without spending billions of dollars....
    I agree.. Its beyond repair.. In Business, at a certain point, things cross the line where you can fix something.. We've crossed that line.. New options must be explored, and Android is the new & ONLY option.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    06-28-16 03:36 PM
  14. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    They didn't make as many as when they launched BB10.
    It was rhetorical. In other words, the launch of BB10 was less successful, because Blackberry lost a ridiculous amount of money on it, where as they did not lose anywhere near as much with the launch of the Priv.
    06-28-16 03:37 PM
  15. Sairos's Avatar
    Please tell me how you account for the fact that the smartphone market was young and open for innovation and adoption in 2008 (Android's release) compared to 2013 (BB10 release) at which time it had matured and formed the natural market dynamics around the Apple and Android ecosystems.

    Could you further expound on how other companies faltered in that timeframe (Palm, Microsoft, Nokia) and yet this shouldn't be viewed as a leading indicator for BB10.

    Explain BB10's poor initial quarter pickup compared to any other launched smartphone platform (major ones only please - no need to pick on FirefoxOS).

    (Layman's Analogy)
    Look, I like apples AND oranges. I even put them in the same fruit bowl. But I don't pretend they're the same thing.
    Exactly, The comparison is very different for several reasons.. The most important one is that the market was wide open back then..
    06-28-16 03:40 PM
  16. Sairos's Avatar
    Heck even their number one fan hung up the cap after six months....
    That might be a stupid question, but who is that xD..
    06-28-16 03:42 PM
  17. Jerry A's Avatar
    Well, the launch of BB10 was 10 times more successful than the launch of the android Priv.
    Maybe in terms of numbers of units shipped. But the Priv didn't break the company and force a $1b write-down.

    Corporate success is measured in more than just volume.

    Regardless, nice zinger.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and JeepBB like this.
    06-28-16 03:47 PM
  18. thurask's Avatar
    That might be a stupid question, but who is that xD..
    Kevin?
    06-28-16 03:51 PM
  19. sorinv's Avatar
    Then why wasn't there a billion-dollar write-down of unsold Priv inventory?
    Because all those z10 that were written off before Chen joined were sold for cash and that billion dollar was claimed as revenue by Chen over the past two years.
    Those z10 that were written off after two quarters from the launch of BB10 were NOT shredded. They were sold later.
    So, no, the 1Billion dollar write-off is not truly a write-off.
    And 10 times more z10 were sold than Priv's.
    togarika and Bluenoser63 like this.
    06-28-16 04:23 PM
  20. Sairos's Avatar
    Kevin?
    Ah CrackBerry's founder.. I'm new here.
    06-28-16 04:28 PM
  21. sorinv's Avatar
    I agree.. Its beyond repair.. In Business, at a certain point, things cross the line where you can fix something.. We've crossed that line.. New options must be explored, and Android is the new & ONLY option.
    That option has already been proven a bigger failure than BB10 for BlackBerry. That option never made any sense since android phones are provided by a large number of competitors. Apart from a keyboard, BlackBerry brings nothing to the android table, and even the physical keyboard has been tried (and failed) by others before.

    Since Chen joined BlackBerry, security and privacy are no longer attributes of BlackBerry.

    BB10 could have saved BlackBerry if the board had not decided to can it when they brought Chen.

    Now it is too late to save BlackBerry, not even the software business.
    togarika likes this.
    06-28-16 04:38 PM
  22. Invictus0's Avatar
    Well, the launch of BB10 was 10 times more successful than the launch of the android Priv.
    Perhaps, but not by much it seems.

    In the second quarter, the company shipped just 3.7 million smartphones, most of which were running BlackBerry 7, the company's older operating system. The company was shy in revealing exactly how many BlackBerry 10 devices it sold last quarter.
    BlackBerry to retreat from consumer market, lay off 4,500 employees | The Verge
    06-28-16 04:51 PM
  23. TgeekB's Avatar
    That option has already been proven a bigger failure than BB10 for BlackBerry. That option never made any sense since android phones are provided by a large number of competitors. Apart from a keyboard, BlackBerry brings nothing to the android table, and even the physical keyboard has been tried (and failed) by others before.

    Since Chen joined BlackBerry, security and privacy are no longer attributes of BlackBerry.

    BB10 could have saved BlackBerry if the board had not decided to can it when they brought Chen.

    Now it is too late to save BlackBerry, not even the software business.
    1 Android phone and it's a failure. Multiple BB10 phones and we look for excuses.

    I'm not saying Android will be the answer, but you have to give it an equal chance. The end might be the same anyways.
    JeepBB and MikeX74 like this.
    06-28-16 04:52 PM
  24. Sairos's Avatar
    That option has already been proven a bigger failure than BB10 for BlackBerry. That option never made any sense since android phones are provided by a large number of competitors. Apart from a keyboard, BlackBerry brings nothing to the android table, and even the physical keyboard has been tried (and failed) by others before.

    Since Chen joined BlackBerry, security and privacy are no longer attributes of BlackBerry.

    BB10 could have saved BlackBerry if the board had not decided to can it when they brought Chen.

    Now it is too late to save BlackBerry, not even the software business.
    No, Android is not a bigger failure than BB10.. I find it quite amusing how people say even Android didn't save BlackBerry.. What do you think android is.. A magic wand.. Just slap that android on a phone, price it for $700 and don't tell anyone about it and it'll sell just fine and save BlackBerry from ruin..

    The reason the Priv failed, was due to several aspects that have been mentioned over and over by everyone here. Its Blackberry's fault.. Its BlackBerry's incompetence.. Chen thought he is selling Monopoly.. Just release a Monopoly android edition and they'll run at it.

    Android is the most popular OS in the market.. But that doesn't mean that you automatically sell phones when you adopt it as your OS of choice.. You've to design the right product, find the right pricing.. address and study the competitions' offerings.. Do some marketing and Ads to tell people about it, specially when you've been off the radar for quite a while.. Its a very competitive & complicated market out there.. Even a great company like HTC is seeing its revenues go down.. although they offer great products and have been there since the start of android.

    And I won't comment on BB10 could've saved the company because It is really Boring Boring Boring.. No Apps, No way in hell..

    P.S. Software is doing just fine.
    TgeekB, JeepBB and MikeX74 like this.
    06-28-16 04:53 PM
  25. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    BB10 could have saved BlackBerry if the board had not decided to can it when they brought Chen.
    BB10 was black, smelly and gangrenous by the time Chen took over.
    JeepBB and Jerry A like this.
    06-28-16 04:54 PM
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