1. skstrials's Avatar
    I don't need it to be reported. I owned both the passport, and I own a Priv. I suffered through screen lifting, and the creaking and groaning.

    The only personal touch I've seen from blackberry is a decline in quality along with their cost cutting.

    I won't give the new android devices a chance because I'm not in the market for a downgrade.

    At 400USD, probably 550CAD, I can just pick up a one plus 3 or any high end huawei.

    I understand WHY blackberry can't competed on specs/price. But that doesn't mean I have to put up with it.

    Posted via a Priv on an 6.0 Mushroom
    This is one reason I stay with my Z10, Q10, and Z30. All three are absolutely well built hardwares, built by BlackBerry themselves, not the Chinese.

    Posted via CB10
    ayngling likes this.
    06-26-16 11:01 AM
  2. John Vieira's Avatar
    This is one reason I stay with my Z10, Q10, and Z30. All three are absolutely well built hardwares, built by BlackBerry themselves, not the Chinese.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree. The Z30 is the best BB10 device built. And I've gotten to try all of them.

    Posted via a Priv on an 6.0 Mushroom
    06-26-16 11:20 AM
  3. Drenegade's Avatar
    I agree. The Z30 is the best BB10 device built. And I've gotten to try all of them.

    Posted via a Priv on an 6.0 Mushroom
    Very true. It's so easy to repair and replace parts on the Z30 as well. I just hate the silver chin and the sim screen.

    Posted via CB10
    06-26-16 11:23 AM
  4. EFats's Avatar
    Given that BB can't sell enough of any device to be profitable, why would having more device choices, which would mean spending a lot more in design, development, and support, but fewer phones sold of each example, possibly make BB money? In the smartphone business, money is made by selling a whole lot of a given item, not by selling a few of a bunch of items.
    What doesn't make sense is why Blackberry doesn't offer BB10 or Android on the same hardware. You want to recover your development and tooling costs on the hardware, spend a bit more to make sure BB10 also runs on the same handset. Customers can pick the OS at purchase, no need for fancy dual boot or anything else.

    Looky, they sold 500k phones last quarter, most of them are NOT Android phones, they are 'outdated' BB10 devices. Let's estimate 250k of them were BB10 (I'd bet it's much higher) with ASP $250. You figure out how much money they are leaving on the table if they had ZERO BB10 devices. Now imagine if you actually provided updated handset vs old stuff. ... it doesn't take paying that many engineers to make the whole proposition financially worthwhile.
    06-26-16 11:23 AM
  5. EFats's Avatar
    This is one reason I stay with my Z10, Q10, and Z30. All three are absolutely well built hardwares, built by BlackBerry themselves, not the Chinese.

    Posted via CB10
    Yah, hate to break it to you, but the masters in manufacturing, or rather, designing for manufacturability, are currently all in China. It's up to you if you want to listen to them or pay for the quality. Nobody has made more phones or seen as many issues as the Chinese manufacturers. It's one thing to develop the technology, quite another proposition to mass produce it.
    Unfortunately, Blackberry may not have enough volume to attract the attention of the top tier manufacturers and they are also dealing with specific features not found in other phones (keyboards, large, square screens, etc)

    I don't disagree with JC's strategy. Absolutely design their own phones, don't rebrand Alcatel stuff, but work very, very closely with the manufacturers in the design, right from the start. One day it will be cheaper to manufacture elsewhere, make sure your design engineers know the manufacturing side.
    06-26-16 11:31 AM
  6. Jack Chin's Avatar
    BlackBerry is (apparently) going to rebrand Alcatel phones with their own label. Alcatel is best known in the U.S.A. (not that it's actually known) for producing the burner phones sold at Dollar General, etc.

    It'd be like Harley-Davison partnering with a Chinese moped maker for an import/rebadge agreement in certain markets. What an awful idea, but it would be more successful initially than BB's plan because at least H-D's brand wouldn't already be toxic. Chen's plan here is just dumb, like a surgeon suturing a wound with used dental floss found in the lavatory trash.

    But think of the cost savings! We're a design house!

    Please.

    You know those atrociously low-quality Emerson radios they sell at the dollar store? Emerson was a real consumer electronics company that made good radios. . .60 years ago. Now the name floats around on any old Chinese electronics crap. What BlackBerry appears to be doing is rebadging the smartphone world's equivalent of a latter-day Emerson radio--in an attempt to revive its own tarnished brand.

    But you can't polish silver with crap and expect a good outcome. This plan is nuts. Just give up the hardware pretense, shutter the business, and be done with it. The stink of this mess is going to permeate and impair the software side they're so high on.

    It must be *'*** awful for any long-timers still working in Waterloo.

    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB and melander like this.
    06-26-16 12:22 PM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    What doesn't make sense is why Blackberry doesn't offer BB10 or Android on the same hardware. You want to recover your development and tooling costs on the hardware, spend a bit more to make sure BB10 also runs on the same handset. Customers can pick the OS at purchase, no need for fancy dual boot or anything else.
    Ending BB10 development allowed BB to lay off several thousand employees - employees whose cost to BB (when you include wages, benefits, taxes, office space, equipment, utilities) probably averaged US$150,000+ each per year. Apple and Google both spend well over $1B per year developing their platforms, but even if BB's more limited offerings only meant half that ($500M per year), BB is only selling 2M phones per year. That means the cost of continued development for BB10 as a full platform (not just maintaining the OS, but actual development, including updated APIs, updated development tools, real developer relations, BES development for BB10, etc.) would cost $250 per phone sold. That's assuming that every phone sold was BB10, BTW, and remember, that's just the cost of the software on the phone - not the design and engineering, the components, the manufacturing, or the distribution.

    The only reasons the Chinese companies can make small runs of phones (under 1M per model) and turn a small profit is because of low labor costs and because they use Android, where Google picks up nearly the whole cost of platform development.

    Smartphones are way too complicated to turn profit with your own platform unless you can sell in great volume. It's the same reason why Dell and HP and Lenovo and Acer license MS Windows for their computers instead of developing their own OS platform - the costs for doing so would force them to double the price of their computers, allowing their competition to just license Windows and eat their lunch.

    Ask yourself this: would you be willing to pay $1500+ for a new mid-grade phone with BB10 on it, or $2000 for a flagship? Do you have a million friends who would also? Unless you could confidently answer "yes" to both questions (and show BB the data to back that up), there's exactly zero chance of a new BB10 phone being released.

    Folks used to love to compare BB10 to Porsche, except Porsche sells cars for 2-3 times the average selling price for cars. Even BB10 fans aren't willing to pay 2-3 times the cost of a current iPhone or Galaxy for a BB10 phone in any kind of quantity - hell, most complain they're too expensive already, and wait for the fire-sale prices to buy. If most Porsche buyers wouldn't buy a car from Porsche until it had sat on the lot for a couple of years and was being closed out for $19,999, Porsche would go out of business quickly.
    Sairos, jegs2, JeepBB and 2 others like this.
    06-26-16 02:12 PM
  8. bfotch's Avatar
    I believe that BlackBerry users won't switch to android. Very few might. But on the other end it might bring in new customers. Have ya'll seen the support BlackBerry gets from phone retailers!? None. They don't carry it much anywhere, and when they do they definitely don't recommend it. They talk down to it sooooo much.

    Posted via CB10
    06-26-16 09:22 PM
  9. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I believe that BlackBerry users won't switch to android. Very few might. But on the other end it might bring in new customers. Have ya'll seen the support BlackBerry gets from phone retailers!? None. They don't carry it much anywhere, and when they do they definitely don't recommend it. They talk down to it sooooo much.
    That's mostly true, but it's because Mike drove BB's brand image straight into the ground, and then kept pouring gasoline on the burning wreckage by trying to convince everyone that what they really wanted was a 2001 solution (BBOS, WEP browser, tiny screen, PKB, 2G networking with BIS) in 2008-2010, when everyone else was was moving to modern OSs with full web browsers, big media-friendly touchscreens, 3G and LTE, and APPS. Mike built the entire company based on the idea that BBOS, BIS, and mobile email would ALWAYS be "the solution" - to the point where he couldn't even that the PROBLEM had changed, and that his product was the solution to old problems that were no longer relevant.

    Those decisions made between 2006-2010 by Mike and Jim (mostly Mike) were ultimately responsible for the destruction of BB's brand image as well as BB's financial well-being, and even after they resigned and Mike's hand-picked successor Heins took over, BB was already on a path that was a massive risk but nearly impossible to change - Thor had no choice but to see the launch of BB10 through. That was a massive additional failure that drained most of BB's remaining value and leverage.

    None of that is the carriers' fault. The carriers have lost massive amounts of money on BB, and haven't been supported by BB at the retail level for nearly 3 years. Is it any wonder they don't have much love for selling BB phones that many buyers (even CB members) will only return?
    jegs2, JeepBB, MikeX74 and 1 others like this.
    06-27-16 12:04 AM
  10. Sairos's Avatar
    BB phones that many buyers (even CB members) will only return?
    Can you explain this part further?..
    06-27-16 12:24 AM
  11. Drenegade's Avatar
    Can you explain this part further?..
    He's saying that the quality has gotten so bad that even diehard crackberry fans will return the device.

    Posted via CB10
    06-27-16 12:38 AM
  12. Sairos's Avatar
    He's saying that the quality has gotten so bad that even diehard crackberry fans will return the device.

    Posted via CB10
    That's with the Priv or other devices?
    06-27-16 12:40 AM
  13. Polt's Avatar
    I don't think it was reported by Tech reviewers that the phones struggle from build quality.. However I do agree that the pricing is bad and the competition offers better pricing.. But you got to excuse them for their struggle.. They can't compete with the Chinese for several reasons.. Now they're outsourcing the phone making, so you will see better specs and pricing in the next two android devices.

    Plus, BlackBerry offers this personal touch that's lacking in any other device.. All the phones out there are bunch of generic big screen phones. You probably can't tell them apart from a few meters in a Cell phones store.. But every BlackBerry device is personal and feels different.. You kinda Miss the phone when you stop using it.. Give the two android devices a chance..
    Why do we have to excuse a company who has dumped millions and millions of loyal BB10 users into the toilet? Need I remind you that even now 10.3.3 is no where to be seen. We've excused them way too much.
    06-27-16 05:22 AM
  14. skstrials's Avatar
    Why do we have to excuse a company who has dumped millions and millions of loyal BB10 users into the toilet? Need I remind you that even now 10.3.3 is no where to be seen. We've excused them way too much.
    BlackBerry Z10 was released in 2013 which was released at the same time as a Samsung Galaxy S4. The Z10 still runs smoothly on the latest BlackBerry 10 os available. The same cannot be said for the Samsung S4.

    Of course, BlackBerry could have done more for the BlackBerry 10 users, but it is not the worst either.

    Posted via CB10
    bh7171 likes this.
    06-27-16 05:36 AM
  15. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    Why do we have to excuse a company who has dumped millions and millions of loyal BB10 users into the toilet? Need I remind you that even now 10.3.3 is no where to be seen. We've excused them way too much.
    You BB10 fanboys (oh excuse me, "loyal BB10 users" ) have NO idea what is being called dumped on. This is coming from a webOS user who had their system dumped and announced devices cancelled with no warning, and servers shut down on them so their devices can't even activate.

    Loyalty is worth poo these days. What BlackBerry has been doing with BB10 is way more graceful already. At least your OS isn't running TVs right now.
    jegs2 and ayngling like this.
    06-27-16 07:42 AM
  16. z10Jobe's Avatar
    BlackBerry Z10 was released in 2013 which was released at the same time as a Samsung Galaxy S4. The Z10 still runs smoothly on the latest BlackBerry 10 os available. The same cannot be said for the Samsung S4.

    Of course, BlackBerry could have done more for the BlackBerry 10 users, but it is not the worst either.

    Posted via CB10
    Actually the S3 was the samsung phone at the z10 release date.

    And yes my z10 is still my daily driver and hasn't missed a beat.

    Posted via CB10
    06-27-16 09:09 AM
  17. melander's Avatar
    I don't think it was reported by Tech reviewers that the phones struggle from build quality.. .
    Agreed.
    Tech Reviewers didn't hold the phone long enough to discover the issues. They just see Blackberry and proceed to murder the phones on the name alone. Too many "reviewers" nothing but bloggers, who say "If you want" instead of "great features all phone should have".
    06-27-16 10:55 AM
  18. Soulstream's Avatar
    BlackBerry Z10 was released in 2013 which was released at the same time as a Samsung Galaxy S4. The Z10 still runs smoothly on the latest BlackBerry 10 os available. The same cannot be said for the Samsung S4.

    Of course, BlackBerry could have done more for the BlackBerry 10 users, but it is not the worst either.

    Posted via CB10
    Samsung is the worst example in the Android world for software efficiency. My Nexus 5 (which was launched in 2013 also) is still running as good as new.

    I think the Android development team was and still is adding features to Android by only looking at the future with existing devices being a second thought. They are banking on hardware being strong enough to accomodate all these features. I think Android at the start was pretty ahead of its time in terms of features and was limited a lot by hardware (for example Android has better multitasking than iOS, but the bad hardware caused a lot of lag by so many things running in the background).
    06-27-16 11:22 AM
  19. Invictus0's Avatar
    Why do we have to excuse a company who has dumped millions and millions of loyal BB10 users into the toilet? Need I remind you that even now 10.3.3 is no where to be seen. We've excused them way too much.
    If you're a consumer that needs apps, perhaps. But enterprise is still supported (given Chen's past comments, they likely make up a sizable portion of the userbase/current buyers).

    BlackBerry CEO wants to sell 5 million phones a year | The Verge
    06-27-16 11:39 AM
  20. Sairos's Avatar
    Agreed.
    Tech Reviewers didn't hold the phone long enough to discover the issues. They just see Blackberry and proceed to murder the phones on the name alone. Too many "reviewers" nothing but bloggers, who say "If you want" instead of "great features all phone should have".
    I've read a lot of good reviews about the Priv.. from very reputable websites and reviewers.. One reviewer from CNET spent 3 months with the phone as his daily driver.. Had a lot of good things to say about it.. Listed Pros and Cons and a really detailed good review.. CNET even has it in its Top 100..
    06-27-16 11:55 AM
  21. jegs2's Avatar
    CNET even has it in its Top 100..
    Top 100? Didn't know there were that many smartphone models out right now.

    Not sure being in the "Top 100" is something about which to be excited.

    Sure you didn't mean Top 10?
    06-27-16 12:40 PM
  22. Sairos's Avatar
    Top 100? Didn't know there were that many smartphone models out right now.

    Not sure being in the "Top 100" is something about which to be excited.

    Sure you didn't mean Top 10?
    You could have googled CNET top 100 and then you would've known what it is.. But Sarcasm is much easier.. I love it too xD.. Its a top 100 tech list.. Not smartphones only.

    And No I'm not excited, I was just discussing that its being properly reviewed and praised by people out there.
    06-27-16 12:47 PM
  23. Ethereo's Avatar
    I dont know how some people here think that BB has any chance in the Android market, what is the goal for Roma and Hamburg phones?, for me is like 50k units sold per quarter. Chen just wants to reach a new lowest level in smartphones sold by BB.
    06-27-16 12:48 PM
  24. Sairos's Avatar
    I dont know how some people here think that BB has any chance in the Android market, what is the goal for Roma and Hamburg phones?, for me is like 50k units sold per quarter. Chen just wants to reach a new lowest level in smartphones sold by BB.
    No we're not that low yet.. 50k per quarter won't happen mate.. Hardware would be shutdown long time before that.
    06-27-16 12:51 PM
  25. Ethereo's Avatar
    No we're not that low yet.. 50k per quarter won't happen mate.. Hardware would be shutdown long time before that.
    Well it seems that BB is very close to that with the Priv, maybe 200k sold the last quarter?.
    06-27-16 03:50 PM
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