[RubberChicken76]

Confusingly the 'Classic' is the Q20 renamed - it's a BB10 device and the first of three BB10 qwerty devices.



To be honest, I think BBRY has made this more confusing than it needs to with it's odd naming strategy.

Heh - he basically said he overruled marketing on the call. "They wanted to call it Q20" (fitting with Q5, Q10) and he overruled them. "Survey of one".

You can tell he's an engineer first and foremost. LOL

[nosco47]

The way I see it. Relaunching the old bold is a smart move. If they can sell them for an inexpensive price overseas to a market of over a billion people that is a fantastic way of making money.

Everyone is focused on what's happening and not thinking that North america only has around 530 million people. A Lot of people can't afford $600 dollar phones. Look what happened when price cuts on z10's were announced over seas. They sold out.

Just my take on it. I could be completely wrong.

Posted via CB10

[anon(5828343)]

The way I see it. Relaunching the old bold is a smart move. If they can sell them for an inexpensive price overseas to a market of over a billion people that is a fantastic way of making money.

If the Bold were being sold for an inexpensive price then you could be right but even at an inexpensive price, we can't forget that the "overseas" (by which I think you mean developing markets largely in Asia, Latin America and Africa) markets are also being targeted by manufacturers of Android devices with very competitive smartphones are very low prices.

In the Philippines local companies like "Myphone" offer entry-level, Chinese-made Android devices for as low as $45 (USD)! So that segment of the market is not Blackberry's alone nor can Blackberry really compete profitably at that segment of the market when it doesn't have the manufacturing heft to produce devices at very high quantities.

A new BBOS device could potentially be competitive in those markets where local mobile data infrastructure isn't fast enough and where BBOS' data compression makes it more suitable but those markets are getting fewer and fewer as providers upgrade and update their networks.

So yes, developing markets could present some opportunities for BB7 devices but like the huge challenges BB faced in developed markets (like the US, Western Europe and even its home market, Canada), the developed markets are not immune from the flood of lower priced devices coming largely from Chinese Android manufacturers.

[early2bed]

If Blackberry doesn't make it (50% probability according to Chen so we should consider it a possibility), we may look back and fault Chen for:

1. Trying to turn around a smartphone company having had virtually no experience in smartphones
2. Making unilateral decisions like naming the "Classic" and who knows what else (re-releasing BBOS devices & the tool belt?)
3. Taking on too many software projects with mostly a hardware company
4. Poor carrier relations (which are pretty much your retailers)
5. Reverse innovation hardware strategy

This kind of reminds me of the CNBC reality show "Money Talks" where the VIP sports better takes you to the casino in Vegas to place a $10K bet on a game with your own money. If you lose then the next day you place a $20K bet on another game. If you lose that one then the next day you place a $60K bet. Hopefully, you eventually win and give him 40% of your net winnings.

I guess if you lose, though, he says "Them's the breaks" and he moves on to the next client while you're out $90K. If Blackberry doesn't make it, then JC will walk away with his pay and say "Well, it was 50/50 and it didn't work out. It was worth a try." It's not like his reputation will be that tarnished. The guy is a household name in technology now. It's easy to make big bets when you really don't have anything to lose and lots to gain.

[Solar 77]

I don't think the plan to bring back the production line of the bold device is targeted for consumers so I'm not worried there.

It has been stated many times that the company will focus on enterprise so they see the demand. If the objective here is to retain current BES users then I'm all for it especially if the production is at a low cost. Better to retain the customers than offer no replacement.

As for the consumer side, we have high end devices rumored for this so I don't see why people are making the continuation of bb os 7 a big issue. I'm definitely not expecting the company to make an ad targeting the consumers with this one.

Posted via CB10

[Solar 77]

This^^^^^^
Z30 can't be the end of the full-touch line....we need the Z50 or Z70 or whatever comes next!!!!

Yep you have a point here. It's quite challenging for BlackBerry since they have the business side to worry of and the consumers to cater to.

Posted via CB10

[anon(5828343)]

If Blackberry doesn't make it, then JC will walk away with his pay and say "Well, it was 50/50 and it didn't work out. It was worth a try." It's not like his reputation will be that tarnished.

So true. The only true winner in this equation is Chen (and, perhaps, Watsa). Whether BBRY lives or dies, CEOs like Chen will do well. The only question is whether they do "better" if BBRY survives. So far, I can't say I'm impressed. There is nothing more annoying to me than CEOs like Chen who talk a big game but have nothing to show for it beside more talk.

The whole "Classic" story is a case in point. So, he threw his weight around and overruled his own marketing department (which probably has one of the absolute worst records of any marketing department in the tech industry if not the entire consumer good sector) over the name. Big deal. Just like Rod Tidwell said in Jerry McGuire: "Show me the money".

Chen, like Heins was, is being lionized as some genius. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Only time will tell. So far, though, he's just like many of these one hit wonder CEOs: all talk, no results.

[qwerty4ever]

After using a BlackBerry Bold 9700 for a few years I can assure John Chen by BlackBerry Q5 is a worthy successor. People clinging to their BlackBerry Bold running BBOS 7 must live in non-developed countries and emerging nations where the cost of a BlackBerry 10 smartphone and non-BIS data plan is prohibitive. Enterprise clients should upgrade and let their BlackBerry users experience the smooth flow of BlackBerry OS 10. Maybe John Chen should offer a rebate to entice enterprise users to migrate. The turned in BlackBerry 7 smartphones could be sent to those countries where BIS remains essential.

Posted via CB10

[wincyUt]

In all fairness, before we all jump to hasty conclusions, we should all wait till the dust settles down a little bit by the end of this calender year 2014. At which time we all will be able to assess how Z3 has fared in the Emerging Markets; how Q20, BES 12, Bold and possibly Z50 are being received by the market at large. It's quite understandable that John Chen will be constantly modifying/adjust his strategies as he uncovers previously unaccounted issues or messes.

[MobileZen]

Chen is focusing back on their key clients in the enterprise. Heins and his team apparently didn't nurture that enterprise so Chen is providing a roadmap for companies that will account for their current services/infrastructure and to help transition into the new EMM/MDM realm that keeps BlackBerry in the game. He can't guarantee an organization to go end-to-end with BlackBerry but they may consider it. Will using BES12 be better with BB10 devices for enterprise needs? Or maybe it will be good with the heterogeneous environment that includes BB5-7, BB10, iOS, Android, Windows? Whatever the case, BlackBerry is in the game still.

There are still plenty of companies still trying to cut costs and the government sector is in debt and deficit that IT investments will not do anything radical if they have a well-oiled machine. That's why the older BlackBerry services and devices still has value. In my company (although they are now transitioning to the latest BES and BB10), they have absolutely no reason to move away from BlackBerry services and devices. The business needs are being met for quality and efficient business communications.

So when things are rosier, Chen has laid out the path that gives BlackBerry an opportunity and he knows nothing is guaranteed but he's going to fight for it. If you watched his CBC network interview, he says having BlackBerry around is good for everyone and he wants to take on that role to unlock that potential and execute.

Posted via CB10

[Bishkin]

Simply put. What do Bold users do when they need to replace their Bold and they considered the BB10 crap, they buy another Bold if they can still get them, otherwise they get an Android or iPhone.

[KDB84]

Simply put. What do Bold users do when they need to replace their Bold and they considered the BB10 crap, they buy another Bold if they can still get them, otherwise they get an Android or iPhone.

Yup. This is a no brainer - if they want more bolds, make more bolds. They're already sold. Why say no to an easy profit? They need it.

Posted from my Z10 via CB10

[Blackberryblade]

So many threads being started about OS device so my comments from another thread. Before we throw Chen to wolves.

Background:

1. I listened to the entire call and QA.

2. My company as of a month ago was still buying the 9900 and have just recently approved the BB10 devices; all 3 as in Q and Z10 and Z30.

3. Every upgrade at my company has been to a bb10 device as they became available. Not ONE person has asked for the legacy device.

Facts:
- They are restarting the bold 9900 line.
- Buying on a cost variable model versus previously it was firm commitment. Chen specifically said they will not lose money on the hardware in this setup.
The deal is with Wisteron(?) not Foxconn

My thoughts:

- enterprise wants bes 12 before moving to BB10 and so staying with 9900. Chen's comments lead me to believe this + experience in my company.
- bulk of BB10 sales are consumer. Why? Announced enterprise #s are small and companies like mine are just starting to move to bb10. It took between BlackBerry and our IT department a year to test and roll out BES10. The reason we did it is because we were on an older bes then 5 and we were in a need of an upgrade. If we were on bes 5 we would have waited until Nov for bes 12 before going to bb10 devices.

- Chen has probably been hearing that the enterprise transition will likely begin in earnest once bes 12 is out. And he needs to keep his clients happy till then with device replacement when they break

- couple this with the good deal they have struck from a cost perspective for producing 9900 and it's a win win for BlackBerry

My conclusion is that until upcoming Q4 legacy will outsell bb10. Z3 and Q20 in consumer space will accelerate (how much is anyone's guess hoping for a lot)

And that Q1 is when the tide will turn decisively as bes 12 and bb10 accelerate.

G

Posted via CB10

Very good post.

To those who want to force a phase out of the old os, I think this is crazy. Give the market what it demands...and right now it demands an old os. There is nothing I dislike more then when companies try and force things upon you. Like apple and their engineered obsolescence......

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

[TGR1]

Simply put. What do Bold users do when they need to replace their Bold and they considered the BB10 crap, they buy another Bold if they can still get them, otherwise they get an Android or iPhone.

Yup. This is a no brainer - if they want more bolds, make more bolds. They're already sold. Why say no to an easy profit? They need it.

Posted from my Z10 via CB10

Understood but the fix is short term, addresses symptom but not root cause. The company has to figure out how to draw users to their more modern OS or find another revenue stream; in the long run the company will lose this legacy group to attrition.

[Bbnivende]

Simply put. What do Bold users do when they need to replace their Bold and they considered the BB10 crap, they buy another Bold if they can still get them, otherwise they get an Android or iPhone.

Mainly business Bold users and just until BES 12.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app

[EuellG]

very interesting thread, thanks for postings

[aha]

Hopefully BlackBerry does not have to write off another billion of Holds in a few quarter.

Posted via CB10 with Z30 on 10.2.1.2141

[velkod]

I can't see why both gen of the BlackBerry devices coexist? Keep the bold line and keep the bb10 lines. Ppl want the bold so bad? Jack up the price n Re release em. Go ahead. Pay for it then.

Have a BlackBerry exec line (bold) n have I, don't even know what to call the 10 series now cuz I thought it was the elite exec line. What do I know anymore these days tho.

I know I like Chen. I know that. I trust him

[RubberChicken76]

Hopefully BlackBerry does not have to write off another billion of Holds in a few quarter.

Posted via CB10 with Z30 on 10.2.1.2141

Doubt it. Isn't it done with a similar arrangement like foxcom? I doubt the run will be anywhere near the scale of the Z10 that they launched on carriers around the world with high expectations of support from carriers and big sell through

Posted via CB10

[tjseaman]

Not new BB7 devices. A new production run of the already existing Bold series, though it's hard to say which. No one listens ore reads apparently, It's even right in the article.

Just like some journalists don't write all the facts...some people don't read when they are right there in front of them.

Posted via CB10 - Z10 'Powered by BlackBerry'

[haringfish]

I can't see why both gen of the BlackBerry devices coexist? Keep the bold line and keep the bb10 lines. Ppl want the bold so bad? Jack up the price n Re release em. Go ahead. Pay for it then.

Have a BlackBerry exec line (bold) n have I, don't even know what to call the 10 series now cuz I thought it was the elite exec line. What do I know anymore these days tho.

I know I like Chen. I know that. I trust him

I Think they should have just named the Q10 the "Bold". It probably would have helped attract more BBOS 7 users.

Posted via the almighty Z

[Bbnivende]

I Think they should have just named the Q10 the "Bold". It probably would have helped attract more BBOS 7 users.

Posted via the almighty Z

At this point in time a 3.1 inch screen is not very Bold.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app

[tchocky77]

At this point in time a 3.1 inch screen is not very Bold.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app

It's not even a consideration.

Are there even still BBOS developers around?
Didn't BlackBerry themselves already fire most of the BBOS engineers?


Sent from my iPad using CB Forums

[higherdestiny]

I don't get it either. They should be focusing on converting those people to BB10. This doesn't show me that they have any confidence in their new OS.

They have plenty of confidence in their new OS.

The thing is - large corporations (such as mine) are VERY slow at migrating to new platforms. There's nothing BlackBerry can do to speed up that process for us - it just takes time. While we're in the process of a BB10 migration, at least half our userbase is still on BBOS7.

Now while we intend to forcefully migrate up to BB10 for our legacy device users, other large organisations do not have such a luxury. For them, the ability to continue to provide BBOS7 devices while they prepare their BB10 infrastructure is vital!

Restarting legacy device production gives them extra time to replenish their existing fleet while they prepare for a migration to BB10 / BES12.

High security environments take their time to adapt to new technology. It's good business to continue supporting them until they are ready to migrate.

I think Chen's made the right call here.

[higherdestiny]

Simply put. What do Bold users do when they need to replace their Bold and they considered the BB10 crap, they buy another Bold if they can still get them, otherwise they get an Android or iPhone.

It has nothing to do with them not liking BB10. The vast majority of Bold owners are enterprise customers, not enthusiast consumers like us. These customers are limited by what their employer offers - and for some large employers, the move to BB10 is a slow one. As they slowly prepare the required backend infrastructure (of which BES 12 will help tremendously), it's smart for BlackBerry to continue offering Bold devices to these organizations. Once they have the backend in place, they will purchase BB10 devices.