[Back-space]

Lol. Well I mean with all the evidence they need to convict people... If you said you were moving stuff, and they pull you over and you have nothing.... They can't convict you for a text message... Hek, you could just say you send them as jokes. I text my friends all the time telling them I'm going to end their life

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[clarklead]

Are you kidding me? Now I have heard it all!!!!

[Back-space]

What? You don't beleive me? What's your number, I'll text you right now saying I'm bringing over several pounds of X... That'll put us both in prison for a few years? I highly doubt that.... A text message isn't aenough to convict someone of a crime.

[ndnoutlaw]

so for now....your saying Law Enforcement doesn't have us by the RIM

[alleycat0124]

This is not a new idea, that is the idea that law enforcement has a need and a legal right to be able to intercept all communications.
Google "CALEA".
The irony is that RIM has created a platform which does not comply and has marketed it successfully in the US.
In my opinion, it's only a question of time before they will be forced to comply.

[Blastheme]

I had no idea of the security either.

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[Back-space]

I don't really get it... I mean, the second they say they're watching everything you do on your cellphone, people won't use them for their illegal business It'll be back to meeting up to discuss business and pulling the batteries out of your phone. There's a way around everything

[Yandar]

This is not a new idea, that is the idea that law enforcement has a need and a legal right to be able to intercept all communications.
Google "CALEA".
The irony is that RIM has created a platform which does not comply and has marketed it successfully in the US.
In my opinion, it's only a question of time before they will be forced to comply.

To me it appears that RIM does not in anyway have to comply with this ACT. RIMs two NOCS opperate outside the US so would not have to comply. Blackberry Messenger being the obvious example. As I understand it, the data goes from your berry to a NOC then to the other berry. This totally bypasses your local carriers servers.

[TaToR ToDD]

Yeah, all my "friends" use BB messenger since you can clear the convo's and the information is not stored anywhere, so its not stored like text messages. they can go back and read any past text's sent through cell phones through search warrents, but nothing through BBM

[alleycat0124]

To me it appears that RIM does not in anyway have to comply with this ACT. RIMs two NOCS opperate outside the US so would not have to comply. Blackberry Messenger being the obvious example. As I understand it, the data goes from your berry to a NOC then to the other berry. This totally bypasses your local carriers servers.

If the FCC wanted to press RIM for non-compliance they could conceivably fine them for operating non-compliant equipment within the US. They could possibly also pressure carriers within the US to stop supporting and distributing RIM's equipment.

[Xopher]

For some companies, secure communication is very imporant. Did you see the movie "Duplicity"? Some rival companies are set on learning their competition's secrets. I'm sure come companies chose RIM's BES because of how hard it is to crack.

If I remember correctly, congress uses BES.

[lnichols]

If the FCC wanted to press RIM for non-compliance they could conceivably fine them for operating non-compliant equipment within the US. They could possibly also pressure carriers within the US to stop supporting and distributing RIM's equipment.

The air interface is compliant and all txt and voice messages can be intercepted just like any other device. No one can force RIM to stop the secure connection between the device and the server because it is perfectly legal to encrypt your own data, and that is all they are doing is building and encrypted tunnel between your device and the server. Its a VPN. Do you know how many businesses, the Government, etc. use VPNs which are using the exact same IP encryption protocols that the BB is using? The only reason BB and BES can be used on a Government unclass network legally is because they are FIPS 140-2 compliant. If you make it illegal for one, it has to be illegal for all and the Feds aren't going to do that.

The Government does have export restrictions on AES encryption devices though, but since RIM is in Canada, they do not fall under this. This is probably why they will never become a US company.

[alleycat0124]

Do you know how many businesses, the Government, etc. use VPNs which are using the exact same IP encryption protocols that the BB is using?

No, I do not. I would guess it might number in the tens of thousands, but I really have no idea.

It does not change the fact that CALEA is actively in force in the US or that telecom carriers in the US must comply. If you or anyone else, government agency official or not, uses the telecom network to transmit by voice or data any information, that information is traversing equipment which complies with CALEA which means that carrier must allow any authorized government agency access to it. Encrypted or not, they have a legal right to access it.

The only questions, in my mind are, where exactly does RIM fall? Are they a telecom service provider and are they subject to US regulations as part of the "cost" of doing business in the US?

FCC - Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act

[lnichols]

Just because your carrier must provide access to the data, there is nothing they can do about encryption that is contained within the data packet. RIM is providing a service on the networks. I can build a VPN from my laptop to a server, and while law enforcement can intercept the packet, they can't force me to provide them the decryption key. RIM would be no different.

[alleycat0124]

Just because your carrier must provide access to the data, there is nothing they can do about encryption that is contained within the data packet. RIM is providing a service on the networks. I can build a VPN from my laptop to a server, and while law enforcement can intercept the packet, they can't force me to provide them the decryption key. RIM would be no different.

You are absolutely correct.

The intercepting agency would have to decrypt the information themselves if they have the resources and means to do so.

One government has asked that RIM decrease their encryption (India, I believe) which RIM refused to do.

Canada wants the "key" which is of course ridiculous. RIM has stated that they do not have it because it is "owned" by the individual BB not by the server.

However, if the FCC manages to extend CALEA to include Blackberries (or more specifically BBM) something would have to change.

I can only speculate how this will pan out, but I do believe this is a current issue which is still being debated, and it is impossible to say that that BBM's will remain secure indefinitely.

[Jonavin]

Security is RIM's only real competitive advantage, so they will pretty much fold before they will give in to any attempt at breaking their competitive advantage.

[alleycat0124]

Security is RIM's only real competitive advantage, so they will pretty much fold before they will give in to any attempt at breaking their competitive advantage.

That is an excellent point, but consider this, what if the Canadian government, and/or the US government told RIM that in order to do business in those countries they would have to make some concessions. Don't you think they would do it? Wouldn't it be better to continue doing some business in those countries than to cease doing all business? Food for thought.

[M7mdAA]

Leave it to the Canadian government to screw up the one thing we got going. Take away the success of RIM and the only things that put us on the world stage are syrup, comedians, hockey players and Nickelback. FYI we're all really sorry about Nickelback. Its gotten way out of hand, their on the radio all the time and well,,, well their just awful.

Nickelback are good !!!!

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[luckyu522001]

I love it when Canadians cry!