02-07-14 06:57 PM
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  1. iN8ter's Avatar
    I find the Z10/Z30 camera fine in outdoor scenes and when the lighting is good, but when it's indoor and/or when the lighting isn't ideal, the camera is absolutely terrible.

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photo Channel
    That's true for all cameras, though.

    I remember when the HTC Vivid (Raider) came out. I got it, and the camera blew away almost anything else that I used in outdoors. The minute I went in the rink, the white balance was way off and noise in the photos was terrible.

    I've gotten to the point where I don't even bother testing cameras in "great light" because even crappy midrange phones will take decent pictures in those conditions. What separates the good cameras from the mediocre ones is how they manage the more challenging situations and how well they handle video recording (especially in the ways I use my phone, for sports, etc.).

    IRT HDR, the iPhone has some of the best HDR due to its extremely fast shutter, great ISP, and first class camera software; so I find that claim dubious at best.

    It's not like people walk around using HDR for all their pictures, anyways, unless you're trying to use it to make up for your device's terrible low light performance - and HDR is a pretty poor fix for that.
    01-26-14 10:50 AM
  2. Francis Pavolko's Avatar
    Many of us continue to miss the point that all these smartphones work pretty darn good these days. I have a z10, z30, Moto X, and Nokia 920 between the wife and I and clearly prefer my z30 BUT would not find myself lost if suddenly there was no z30. The Nokia is my wife's favorite even after spending two weeks with the z10 and the Moto X would work just fine for me if BlackBerry no longer existed. Personally I like the new direction BlackBerry has chosen, wish them success and will continue to use their products as long as they continue to perform the basic functions of a smartphone better than the competition.

    Posted via CB 10 on Z30
    deptech and Kurdis Blough like this.
    01-26-14 10:54 AM
  3. deptech's Avatar
    Boot analogies sometimes are needed to prove points Lol. Plus it did offer a nice diversion for deptech to ignore the 900ppi bit.
    By diversion, are you referring to changing the topic slightly so not to accept the facts....aka truth. lol

    "Truth and logic hard to deny"

    Z30 on 2.2.1.1925 in Canada
    01-26-14 10:55 AM
  4. lynxs_claw's Avatar
    You're just listing facts that mean nothing. You know that the true number in 900ppi, not 300ppi.

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    So facts like specs only work for you if it suits you.

    Bottomline the majority of users out there don't care about specs, they care about what their friends and family tell them to buy. How I know this?.. I just need to ask almost anyone I know what specs they have in their device.. they don't know and they don't care.. same as when I tell them amazing features that they can on their BB10 devices that they can't get on other popular devices... they don't care
    deptech and keepthetorch like this.
    01-26-14 10:55 AM
  5. ajst222's Avatar
    That's true for all cameras, though.

    I remember when the HTC Vivid (Raider) came out. I got it, and the camera blew away almost anything else that I used in outdoors. The minute I went in the rink, the white balance was way off and noise in the photos was terrible.

    I've gotten to the point where I don't even bother testing cameras in "great light" because even crappy midrange phones will take decent pictures in those conditions. What separates the good cameras from the mediocre ones is how they manage the more challenging situations and how well they handle video recording (especially in the ways I use my phone, for sports, etc.).

    IRT HDR, the iPhone has some of the best HDR due to its extremely fast shutter, great ISP, and first class camera software; so I find that claim dubious at best.

    It's not like people walk around using HDR for all their pictures, anyways, unless you're trying to use it to make up for your device's terrible low light performance - and HDR is a pretty poor fix for that.
    Not all cameras are terrible in low light. Lumia models are fantastic. The 5 is fairly good and the 5s is good. I also hear that the HTC One is good in low light as well.

    I also don't find it true that all cameras are fantastic in ideal conditions. Samsung cameras are usually overexposed.

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    01-26-14 10:57 AM
  6. asherwiin's Avatar
    I don't understand how people cannot tell the difference between the Z30 screen (less than 300ppi) and a high end Android device with a 1080p screen which has 100+ppi more than the Z30. I have excellent vision and notice the difference immediately. The only way I can see this being possible is if someone's vision is just bad or plain awful.

    I went to the Verizon store yesterday while in the mall. I looked at the Z30 for a little bit. It was right next to the LG G2, S4 and Note 3. I can't even imagine not being able to see the difference. It was night and day. I can even tell the difference with it compared to my 5S screen and it's maybe 30 more ppi than the Z30. For my eyes, it was ridiculously obvious.
    Many people confuse brightness and vibrancy with better resolution. If the two phones are not configured/calibrated the same, any comparison of 'resolution' can be easily overpowered by other influencing factors.

    Controlled tests done in the lab have conclusively proven, over and over, that once you get north of 300ppi, the human eye cannot distinguish any difference in resolution at normal viewing differences.



    Posted via CB10
    01-26-14 10:58 AM
  7. iN8ter's Avatar
    Not all cameras are terrible in low light. Lumia models are fantastic. The 5 is fairly good and the 5s is good. I also hear that the HTC One is good in low light as well.

    I also don't find it true that all cameras are fantastic in ideal conditions. Samsung cameras are usually overexposed.

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    I meant most take decent pics in great light.

    My phone takes good pictures and my S2 was great as well. Low light Samsung cameras were bad but now they have a good low light mode so that is less of an issue. The S4 has intelligent auto as well.

    On the S2 the core were sometimes muted (auto fix in snapseed fixed it with a button press, or auto awesome in G+ automatically). But that's about it. Samsung is tops for video recording, though. Few phones are better.

    The HTC One's camera was a bit of a letdown. Doesn't give the most detailed images. But yes it does well in low light due to physics.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-26-14 11:01 AM
  8. vanrickman's Avatar
    No device needs octo cores, you can't even use all 8 cores at once...

    Posted via CB10
    Exactly, what are you doing with your phone that you need octocore to come save the day?


    Sent from the phone of the gods.....Z30
    CerveloJohn likes this.
    01-26-14 11:03 AM
  9. ajst222's Avatar
    I meant most take decent pics in great light.

    My phone takes good pictures and my S2 was great as well. Low light Samsung cameras were bad but now they have a good low light mode so that is less of an issue. The S4 has intelligent auto as well.

    On the S2 the core were sometimes muted (auto fix in snapseed fixed it with a button press, or auto awesome in G+ automatically). But that's about it. Samsung is tops for video recording, though. Few phones are better.

    The HTC One's camera was a bit of a letdown. Doesn't give the most detailed images. But yes it does well in low light due to physics.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Yes, decent pictures but I still feel it's worth testing as I find some are better than others. I also agree the HTC One camera generally was a letdown due to resolution but the lighting seems to be good.

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    01-26-14 11:08 AM
  10. iN8ter's Avatar
    Yes, decent pictures but I still feel it's worth testing as I find some are better than others. I also agree the HTC One camera generally was a letdown due to resolution but the lighting seems to be good.

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    Correct. They are all not equal. The One should have used the same (or slightly upgraded) optics as the One X/DNA, and the phone would have been much more attractive to me.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    ajst222 likes this.
    01-26-14 11:10 AM
  11. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    No offence mate but your phone has been on 13 hrs not "almost 24hrs" as u put it. If you have the z10 with the 4500 mah battery It lasts just as long if not longer. Been off the charger since 6:42pm or so yesterday. It's 11am now. That's almost 15 hrs and when it shows zero I still have like 3 hours or so standby time left but as the z10 is not configured to read the battery capacity you just get a 0%. Screen brightness at about 95%, Two email accounts, all social networks running, loads of extra apps running i.e BlackBerry travel, hub++, Soccerticker, nfl app, phone calls, watched a lot of youtube videos using fast tube etc.. BBM messages and group messages, Skype, gtalk etc.. I used it heavily.
    Posted via CB10 on my Z mfk'n 10
    I am very sorry I left in a hurry and couldn't notice my mistake sooner.
    I've just edited my OP and replaced the irrelevant screenshot with the proper one.
    Here it is :
    Can we stop lying to ourselves?-img_20140126_102710.png

    As you can see it is over 24Hrs.

    I must say that I've been playing with radio files and wasn't satisfied with 1926. I'm currently using 1056 and my battery feels much, much better (note: do not rush on it, seems cell freq/mode related. here : France). I'm not sure what radio/usage was when I took the former screenshot ... must say I have something like 20 on my SD.
    Please excuse me for this.
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 01-26-14 at 11:49 AM.
    01-26-14 11:11 AM
  12. ajst222's Avatar
    Exactly, what are you doing with your phone that you need octocore to come save the day?


    Sent from the phone of the gods.....Z30
    Yeah! Who needs color screens? Who needs cameras? Who needs apps? Who needs octocores? Oops...it looks like for a few of them I was paraphrasing Mike and Jim.

    If consumers want it, then BlackBerry needs to provide.

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    01-26-14 11:11 AM
  13. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    What phone was that picture taken with?

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photo Channel
    My Z30 in HDR mode - with/no post effect. I made a few attempts before I get this near correct.
    Can we stop lying to ourselves?-img_00001197.jpg
    here's another one (I was a "oh no, not again this sunset thing" day lol)

    edit : since you seem to have photo skills (much more than me); I'd add some vaious takes, in/ou with hi/low light and focus (no flash, no effect).

    Can we stop lying to ourselves?-img_20140110_222710.jpg
    Can we stop lying to ourselves?-img_20140120_185607.jpg
    Can we stop lying to ourselves?-img_20131230_083821.jpg
    Can we stop lying to ourselves?-img_00001186_edit.jpg
    (P.S: for this one, edited to rotate)Can we stop lying to ourselves?-img_00000957_hdr.jpgCan we stop lying to ourselves?-img_00001398.jpg

    Last, this one with a "in device" effect (shamy lomographic - ip style ... meh)
    Can we stop lying to ourselves?-img_00001316_edit.jpg
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 01-26-14 at 11:47 AM.
    01-26-14 11:15 AM
  14. darkehawke's Avatar
    Maybe I'm mistaken but isn't the MotoX just 3G? Or maybe it's just the cheaper model you're comparing to the Z30

    You shouldn't use Google devices as comparison. Google sells at break even prices and make money long term on services such as adds on the phone.
    4g is not worth the extra price BlackBerry charge.
    And the moto X is not a nexus device which does sell at break even prices.

    Posted via CB10
    01-26-14 11:23 AM
  15. avt123's Avatar
    It appears to me that your display, standby, and system are too high, my display is at 7.4%, standby is at 0.83%, and system is at 0.74%. The standby seems especially odd.

    Z30 on 2.2.1.1925 in Canada
    I think you meant to quote the person that I quoted.
    01-26-14 11:25 AM
  16. avt123's Avatar
    Many people confuse brightness and vibrancy with better resolution. If the two phones are not configured/calibrated the same, any comparison of 'resolution' can be easily overpowered by other influencing factors.

    Controlled tests done in the lab have conclusively proven, over and over, that once you get north of 300ppi, the human eye cannot distinguish any difference in resolution at normal viewing differences.



    Posted via CB10
    I have three devices in front of me right now (Z10, 5S and Galaxy Nexus). All with brightness at 100%. The Z10 clearly has the nicest and sharpest screen, I can't notice pixels as easily and icons/edges of graphics are smoother looking. The Z10 screen looks better even when every device has brightness set to the lowest. It just looks better no matter what brightness they are all on (better meaning sharper, less noticeable pixels, no color accuracy).

    The Z10 has the highest ppi out of all of them.
    I don't care what these test say. The difference between a high end Android device with a 1080p and the Z30 screen is night and say. I have not met one person IRL who can not tell the difference between higher ppi screens. I know multiple people with Galaxy S4/Note 3, and when they used my Z10 they asked me right away of it was only 720p because they saw the difference immediately.

    This is even more noticeable when I zoom in on text. The 5S and Nexus show the edge of letters are a little more rough, the Z10 is smoother. Zooming in on a screen with 400+ppi, this doesn't happen at all. Super smooth and crisp text fully zoomed in. I have tested it on 4+ 1080 screens. It is dead obvious.
    01-26-14 11:34 AM
  17. bakron1's Avatar
    I really could care less about all these phone specs, quad core, snapdragon and the rest of that BS.

    I look at the device, how it feels in my hand, quality, how well the software works for my needs and warranty support.

    The rest of that nonsense is just gimmicks to put more billions into the manufacturers pockets. The z30 and z10 are both great products.

    The person buying a BlackBerry is looking for functionality and reliability and both the z10 and z30 are up to the task. 10.2.1.195 was a major step forward for BlackBerry.

    I just hope they can rebuild some of their market share and brand name here in the USA. Most everyone I have showed my z10 and z30 to with the leak have been amazed. Most of then don't realize they can run the android apps and how smooth the latest OS is.

    Let's quit arguing about high tech specs and focus on delivering the consumer a high end product worthy of the BlackBerry name. I think based on my experience with the z10 and z30. We are on the right track.

    Sent from my z30 with 10.2.1.195
    01-26-14 11:37 AM
  18. ajst222's Avatar
    I have three devices in front of me right now (Z10, 5S and Galaxy Nexus). All with brightness at 100%. The Z10 clearly has the nicest and sharpest screen, I can't notice pixels as easily and icons/edges of graphics are smoother looking. The Z10 screen looks better even when every device has brightness set to the lowest. It just looks better no matter what brightness they are all on (better meaning sharper, less noticeable pixels, no color accuracy).

    The Z10 has the highest ppi out of all of them.
    I don't care what these test say. The difference between a high end Android device with a 1080p and the Z30 screen is night and say. I have not met one person IRL who can not tell the difference between higher ppi screens. I know multiple people with Galaxy S4/Note 3, and when they used my Z10 they asked me right away of it was only 720p because they say was difference immediately.
    And another problem with the Z30 is that the screen is SO DIM! And I find the colors to be very dull as well.

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    01-26-14 11:40 AM
  19. NursingNinja's Avatar
    I think it is nice that BB10 has dual core now, this seems to help a lot with encryption as I don't notice any lag. I noticed on my DROID laptop that high specs were a must for any kind of multitasking so perhaps that is why they keep pushing the spec envelope.

    I know I don't feel I am missing anything but yall move too damn fast for me these days. I'm not even 30 yet and I'm saying that...

    Posted via CB10
    01-26-14 11:45 AM
  20. NursingNinja's Avatar
    Am I old for still thinking it's cool that my cell phone has a camera AND an mp3 player?

    Posted via CB10
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    01-26-14 11:46 AM
  21. Kurdis Blough's Avatar
    Many people confuse brightness and vibrancy with better resolution. If the two phones are not configured/calibrated the same, any comparison of 'resolution' can be easily overpowered by other influencing factors.
    Hi uhh
    Controlled tests done in the lab have conclusively proven, over and over, that once you get north of 300ppi, the human eye cannot distinguish any difference in resolution at normal viewing differences.



    Posted via CB10
    So the lower resolution, screen on a BlackBerry is superior? Better/acceptable value somehow for a lower quality component. People are confused by brightness and vibrancy?

    I think this is what the OP was referring to.
    Last edited by Kurdis Blough; 01-26-14 at 12:42 PM.
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    01-26-14 11:51 AM
  22. keepthetorch's Avatar
    You're just listing facts that mean nothing. You know that the true number in 900ppi, not 300ppi.

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    OMG please!!!!!!! Can we get an optometrist to chime in here NOW!!!! Settle this thing as I just will not be able to sleep tonight. Will be counting pixels instead of sheep. Tomorrow morning will come way too early.
    01-26-14 11:53 AM
  23. ajst222's Avatar
    My Z30 in HDR mode - with/no post effect. I made a few attempts before I get this near correct.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    here's another one (I was a "oh no, not again this sunset thing" day lol)

    edit : since you seem to have photo skills (much more than me); I'd add some vaious takes, in/ou with hi/low light and focus (no flash, no effect).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    (P.S: for this one, edited to rotate)Click image for larger version. 

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    Last, this one with a "in device" effect (shamy lomographic - ip style ... meh)
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I like pictures 4, 5, and 6 especially. However, as I've noticed with the Z10 in general, everything is underexposed. That's just the way the camera seems to be. Still nice pictures nevertheless. You seem to be using the rule of thirds pretty well in the landscapes lol

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    01-26-14 11:54 AM
  24. keepthetorch's Avatar
    My Z30 in HDR mode - with/no post effect. I made a few attempts before I get this near correct.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_00001197.jpg 
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ID:	241882
    here's another one (I was a "oh no, not again this sunset thing" day lol)

    edit : since you seem to have photo skills (much more than me); I'd add some vaious takes, in/ou with hi/low light and focus (no flash, no effect).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20140110_222710.jpg 
Views:	754 
Size:	118.2 KB 
ID:	241888
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20140120_185607.jpg 
Views:	754 
Size:	144.4 KB 
ID:	241890
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20131230_083821.jpg 
Views:	752 
Size:	109.4 KB 
ID:	241891
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_00001186_edit.jpg 
Views:	745 
Size:	91.5 KB 
ID:	241894
    (P.S: for this one, edited to rotate)Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_00000957_hdr.jpg 
Views:	731 
Size:	218.8 KB 
ID:	241903Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_00001398.jpg 
Views:	731 
Size:	189.4 KB 
ID:	241905

    Last, this one with a "in device" effect (shamy lomographic - ip style ... meh)
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Superfly - very impressive and thank you for sharing. Most all of these phones are of very high quality across the spectrum. You get used to what you have and we can amaze ourselves.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    01-26-14 12:05 PM
  25. Mr.Willie's Avatar
    First thing first I believe that overall the z30 is a better phone than the z10.
    The problem I have is that the difference is too marginal for me to warrant spending �500 for one.
    I've come to believe that the z10 and z30 is much like the xperia z and the xperia z1.
    The z1 is what the z should have been.
    The z30 is what the z10 should have been.

    That's just my opinion. My preferred option is the z10 mainly due to size and screen. But I fully expect to see a true successor to both the z10 and the z30 soon

    Posted via CB10
    HTC One running BB 10.2 is what the Z10/Z30 should have been. I feel sales would have been a lot better and maybe they wouldn't be bleeding money.

    These silly arguments remind me of the audiophile debates about amplifiers and sound....just like the human ear can only hear so many frequencies, the human eye can only discern so much with screen quality.

    I have both the z10 and the z30. I love both. I have watched movies, created documents, surfed the Internet, watched youtube.....you name it
    ...on both units. I honestly cannot see the difference...both screens are beautiful, and crisp. Colors are great, HD looks awesome...and the larger screen on the Z30 is great!

    Quad core, dual core, albacore....give it a rest, OP....everything is a trade off....performance and speed over energy consumption. If it takes my Z30 1/50th of a second to load a page longer than a competitor's model, then so be it. I'm enjoying the overall experience, flow, and flexibility this OS offers....in a great hardware package to boot.

    I honestly feel that if all people are going to do is complain, then go buy whatever works for you...no one is shoving a phone down your throat. Every phone has its plusses and minusses....and you pick a balance between both.

    Both the z10 and z30 are great phones, and many people like then and use them to their full satisfaction. They don't work for you? Great. Sell them and get something else.


    Posted by my GINORMOUS Z30
    But one of the problems is compare the screens to other phones, say the 1080P LCD3 screen on the HTC One, or the screen on the Nokia 1520. BB's problem is not the Z10 vs Z30, it's the Z10/Z30 vs everything else. As far as the general consumer is concerned BB loses that battle. A few geeks will not keep the company afloat.
    ajst222, JeepBB and Shadowyugi like this.
    01-26-14 12:15 PM
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