02-07-14 06:57 PM
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  1. habs_fan's Avatar
    It's great for me! I love it way better than my Z10 I can't notice the screen maybe cause my eyes aren't 20/20. And it's faster than my Z10.

    Posted via CB10
    deptech and bungaboy like this.
    01-25-14 06:39 AM
  2. Cozz4ever's Avatar

    Another is the "good enough" attitude. When it comes to CPU's for example, an S4 and its Quad/Octacore is much faster when it comes to rendering maps/images/editing than a Z30. But again people say the dual core is good enough to get the job done.
    Can you show me an example? I have both units and the G4 isn't faster. It actually get very sloppy and choppy as it ages with more crap installed in the background.

    Running 8 apps on both phones, the G4 was slower even visually. It would pause and stutter going between frames.
    Go ahead and run the browser with several apps running, go to a web page, open another tab. Notice how long it takes for the G4 to open another tab? It takes much much longer than the Z30. Takes so long, I want to punch it. and it's a quad core.
    01-25-14 06:47 AM
  3. ubizmo's Avatar
    I have an S4, which I'm using right now. I've had it side by side with a Z30 in a Verizon store. I couldn't see any difference in screen quality.

    But the S4 also has a large battery and gets great battery life.

    The S4 camera is good but it gets increasingly laggy as time goes on, unfortunately. I don't know if the Z30 has that problem but I doubt it.

    Sent via Tapatalk
    CerveloJohn and bungaboy like this.
    01-25-14 06:57 AM
  4. bungaboy's Avatar
    *shrug* We got what we got. I would have liked a better spec on the Z30, but that doesn't keep me from loving the device as it is.

    I have trouble seeing the point in the discussion. This goes along with pronouncements like "the Z30 is what BlackBerry should have brought out to begin with". It would be cool if it happened, but it didn't...

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30
    My observation of the OP is constantly starting ****fest threads. Just my opinion.
    01-25-14 07:10 AM
  5. jrohland's Avatar
    Setup an experiment where you put a Z10 and a Z30 in a black box with the Z30 about 35 CM (14 inches) further away from the viewer than the Z10. (That is about how far is needed to make them appear the same size.) Put the same image on the screen, adjust the brightness and white balance so they are the same. (White balance adjustment is available in 10.2.1.1925.) Ask as many people you want to identify the Z10. Fifty percent will get it right. Statistically that means no would could correctly identify the Z10.

    Those who claim the Z30 looks pixelated fail to understand the larger screen is effectively 35 CM closer to their eyes compared to a Z10. The small difference in actual pixel count is not perceptible by any human.
    deptech and bungaboy like this.
    01-25-14 07:20 AM
  6. anon(4044683)'s Avatar
    I still believe Z30 should have been the Z10 except for the screen size and resolution.
    01-25-14 07:20 AM
  7. deptech's Avatar
    My previous device was a Z10, a great device, no issues, but I wanted a larger screen which is why I now have the Z30. The Z30 is an amazing device, a better device than the Z10 in many ways. The performance is spectacular, the battery life is outstanding, the sound is crisp, loud, and in stereo, the screen is big, bright, colorful, and crisp. The interaction between user and device is what matters not the specs.

    Z30 on 2.2.1.1925 in Canada
    CerveloJohn and bungaboy like this.
    01-25-14 07:23 AM
  8. Playbook007's Avatar
    The Z30 is a decent device. I used it, but in my personal opinion I like the Z10 a lot more due to the screen resolution and size. My main topic of concern is we need to stop with the "good enough" attitude and the "you cannot tell the difference" attitude. And stop berating and attacking people that are asking for better hardware.

    I go around the forums and see some people raise valid criticisms of the Z30 (mainly its screen resolution) and I see them instantly get attacked. Many people say you cannot tell the difference between a 720p screen with 295ppi vs a 1080p screen with 441ppi, claiming its just a marketing term. Ummmm are you kidding me??? Like honestly have you guys seen a Galaxy S4 and a Z30 side by side? The Z30 screen looks awful compared to it.

    Another is the "good enough" attitude. When it comes to CPU's for example, an S4 and its Quad/Octacore is much faster when it comes to rendering maps/images/editing than a Z30. But again people say the dual core is good enough to get the job done.

    Ok so I want you guys to go back in time when the Z30 was rumored as the Aristo. Look down in the comments.

    Flagship BlackBerry A10 rumored to be arriving later this year | CrackBerry.com
    BlackBerry 10 Aristo spec sheet appears, calls for Quad-Core Krait | CrackBerry.com

    Everyone was clamoring on about quad core CPU's, 1080p displays because why? Because they are necessary and its what the market wants (It is what we wanted on CB!!). No one back then said "Quad core??? Too much for me, lets bump it down to dual core its good enough. Also the screen, bring it down to 720p because really 1080p makes no difference". So I feel like BB can literally put out anything and many people on Crackberry will be happy with it and justify below par phones with some weird reasoning.

    My reason for this post then is this. If we want to move forward and make BlackBerry a success again, we on Crackberry, the most hardcore users need to demand the best from BB and John Chen & Co. Demand them to put out the best spec, the most secure, and the best built phones out on the market. We really wont get there if we still hold onto this good enough attitude.
    Quad cores and screens like the z10's are power hungry. What makes the z30 so great is its power management, speed and smoothness, along with all the useful things it does so well. Earlier it was discussed how the z30 allows one to lose their laptop and they are absolutely correct. My laptop is rarely needed. OP you just don't get it. Next time your device is out of power, think of how much you would give up a quad core or a 1080 screen so your device was still available. The z30 is by far the best device I have ever had. And it never crashes. Amazing!

    Posted via CB10
    bungaboy likes this.
    01-25-14 07:41 AM
  9. THBW's Avatar
    I'm one of our company?s 4 executive technical support team and own a Z30.
    With my business tool I'm able to...

    - RDP into my laptop at work (without establishing a VPN connection first)which never leaves my desk anymore.

    - work with any files on any file server within our LAN

    - enjoy piece of mind that my corporate email will be delivered reliably and securely because I'm not relying on also-ran corporate email applications like Good for Enterprise

    - can access my company's intranet pages simply by using my Work Browser thanks to BlackBerry Balance

    Never mind that the BB10 browser is the top-rated mobile browser on any phone (ref: html5test.com).

    The other 3 guys on our team have either Galaxy S4 or iPhone 5s and have to lug their laptops home when it's their weeks to cover our after-hours periods.
    So no, I'm not feeling as if I'm being short-changed by my choice in BB10 and its lack of a quad-core CPU. Somehow it does all that stuff the others don't do without a 1080p resolution display or all those power-hungry extra cores.

    The other guys can play Candy Crush without side loading though...


    Posted via CB10
    Yes, thank you for telling it the way it is. Intranet connects, email functionality,to a lesser extent VPN, are essential to me and BlackBerry does it effectively and efficiently. We take it for granted but just take the iPhone for a spin and you will find its limitations very quickly. Quite sad actually.

    As to hardware and general speed of the device, it beats the iPhone hands down. There is no competition. The reasons centers on the software and that it maximizes hardware performance. So you get speed without the power drain.

    As to screen resolution, the Z10 beats the iPhone quite handsomely. Once again, this is well known and we don't have go over it again. As to the Z30, BlackBerry went with an amyloid screen, to save power which by the way is exactly what Apple is doing on their next devices.

    I could go on but we need need to be nice to iFan these days. They are not feeling a lot of love. It's hard to deny that the iPhone has fallen desperately behind the competition. It's so bad that iFans are starting threads stating that the yet to be released iPhone are better than a Z10, a phone released a year ago. Be nice, buy them a coffee and let them express their anxieties.

    Posted via CB10
    01-25-14 08:02 AM
  10. BobWalker's Avatar
    If I'm perfectly honest with myself, I have to say that my Z10 -- never mind the Z30 -- outperforms my old phone which has better hardware specs. Even the screen is better. The 1080p stuff is way overrated, especially after the screen starts to burn in. Google "S4 screen burn." If you use the device for a few months, the screen starts to look dull, which is a lovely complement to the crummy performance.

    The Z10 gives me 1080p when it counts, on a big screen. *shrug* it just seems to be more thoughtfully engineered overall. Poorly marketed but very well made...

    I'm more impressed with good software than with "specs.". If I'm perfectly honest with myself, I have to say, "Gosh, I should sell that worthless piece of junk in my drawer and get a Z30."
    bungaboy and SDTRMG like this.
    01-25-14 09:33 AM
  11. vegetto_456's Avatar
    If I'm perfectly honest with myself, I have to say that my Z10 -- never mind the Z30 -- outperforms my old phone which has better hardware specs. Even the screen is better. The 1080p stuff is way overrated, especially after the screen starts to burn in. Google "S4 screen burn." If you use the device for a few months, the screen starts to look dull, which is a lovely complement to the crummy performance.

    The Z10 gives me 1080p when it counts, on a big screen. *shrug* it just seems to be more thoughtfully engineered overall. Poorly marketed but very well made...

    I'm more impressed with good software than with "specs.". If I'm perfectly honest with myself, I have to say, "Gosh, I should sell that worthless piece of junk in my drawer and get a Z30."
    To be fair, the burn is more due to the AMOLED nature of the screen, not the resolution.
    01-25-14 09:42 AM
  12. thatplaybookguy's Avatar
    when I want a larger screen plug my z10 into my tv and get full hd at 40 inches. Someday I'll get a Z30 or the new Jakarta flagship octo-core phone.
    01-25-14 09:59 AM
  13. avt123's Avatar
    I don't understand how people cannot tell the difference between the Z30 screen (less than 300ppi) and a high end Android device with a 1080p screen which has 100+ppi more than the Z30. I have excellent vision and notice the difference immediately. The only way I can see this being possible is if someone's vision is just bad or plain awful.

    I went to the Verizon store yesterday while in the mall. I looked at the Z30 for a little bit. It was right next to the LG G2, S4 and Note 3. I can't even imagine not being able to see the difference. It was night and day. I can even tell the difference with it compared to my 5S screen and it's maybe 30 more ppi than the Z30. For my eyes, it was ridiculously obvious.
    Last edited by avt123; 01-25-14 at 10:25 AM.
    01-25-14 10:07 AM
  14. RyanGermann's Avatar
    When I saw the topic title, I knew what the subject would be (well, one of 4 possibilities)... so what I'D like is for people who are frustrated with BlackBerry for one reason or another to revive one of the hundreds of other topics on the exact same topic, rather than posting yet another topic on this tired pointless subject.

    Starting a new topic on the subject of tired old subjects is a self-serving "look at me" plea for attention and it's frankly a waste of time.

    In an effort to contribute positively to this topic, I think CrackBerry management should come up with 10 or so specific complaint subjects of a general nature ("megathreads") and when someone feels the need to post yet another "BlackBerry devices are underpowered" complaint topic, just merge it right into the megathread, and people can go commiserate there.

    For the record, I doubt there are many CrackBerry fans who aren't aware of how the specs compare to the S4 or iP5S or Nexus 5, but we want a BB10 device, not an Android or iOS device. Also, most people aren't complaining about the performance of their devices (a vocal minority are complaining) and if there was a super BB10 phone that rivaled the Galaxy Note III for specs in a slider form factor, I'd be first in line to pony up the $1000 unsubsidized price and sincerely believe I would months later think it was the best $1000 I ever spent.

    And just because we aren't tilting at windmills about the perception in the marketplace that BB10 devices underwhelm because they aren't hosting 64 bit octacore processors doesn't mean that we don't think it's a marketing liability.

    At the end of the day, until product managers and the marketing department at BlackBerry takes on the strategy that BlackBerry MUST have a super powered beast in their product portfolio, I absolutely don't get the point of whining YET AGAIN about how the non-BlackBerry user market (the narrow very slim minority of people who WOULD be impressed if only a BB10 flagship device were 64 bit octacore beasts) is not being served. Go post it in an old thread, get it off your chest, no one will read it and everyone but the OP is happy.
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 01-25-14 at 10:28 AM.
    01-25-14 10:14 AM
  15. kbz1960's Avatar
    I think the OP is saying while an OS can be optimized and run great on lesser hardware most of the world and bloggers look for better hardware. I don't know too many that will pay more for a phone with older/lesser hardware when they can buy better for less money. Even my sister who knows nothing about specs or what they mean is always asking about the hardware in things before she buys them.

    BBRY needs to find a way to both sell great hardware at a cheaper price than the competition. The competition has better hardware, price and all the apps you would ever want. Where is the premium in the cost of a BBRY? Security is the only one I can see. That and being left out or behind on new apps.
    01-25-14 10:15 AM
  16. amjass12's Avatar
    The Z30 is a decent device. I used it, but in my personal opinion I like the Z10 a lot more due to the screen resolution and size. My main topic of concern is we need to stop with the "good enough" attitude and the "you cannot tell the difference" attitude. And stop berating and attacking people that are asking for better hardware.

    I go around the forums and see some people raise valid criticisms of the Z30 (mainly its screen resolution) and I see them instantly get attacked. Many people say you cannot tell the difference between a 720p screen with 295ppi vs a 1080p screen with 441ppi, claiming its just a marketing term. Ummmm are you kidding me??? Like honestly have you guys seen a Galaxy S4 and a Z30 side by side? The Z30 screen looks awful compared to it.

    Another is the "good enough" attitude. When it comes to CPU's for example, an S4 and its Quad/Octacore is much faster when it comes to rendering maps/images/editing than a Z30. But again people say the dual core is good enough to get the job done.

    Ok so I want you guys to go back in time when the Z30 was rumored as the Aristo. Look down in the comments.

    Flagship BlackBerry A10 rumored to be arriving later this year | CrackBerry.com
    BlackBerry 10 Aristo spec sheet appears, calls for Quad-Core Krait | CrackBerry.com

    Everyone was clamoring on about quad core CPU's, 1080p displays because why? Because they are necessary and its what the market wants (It is what we wanted on CB!!). No one back then said "Quad core??? Too much for me, lets bump it down to dual core its good enough. Also the screen, bring it down to 720p because really 1080p makes no difference". So I feel like BB can literally put out anything and many people on Crackberry will be happy with it and justify below par phones with some weird reasoning.

    My reason for this post then is this. If we want to move forward and make BlackBerry a success again, we on Crackberry, the most hardcore users need to demand the best from BB and John Chen & Co. Demand them to put out the best spec, the most secure, and the best built phones out on the market. We really wont get there if we still hold onto this good enough attitude.
    I agree with your post, but ur demand is futile. Any negativity and everyone goes nuts. We need a joker meme for this, it's very appropriate

    Posted via CB10
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    01-25-14 10:30 AM
  17. RyanGermann's Avatar
    BBRY needs to find a way to both sell great hardware at a cheaper price than the competition. The competition has better hardware, price and all the apps you would ever want. Where is the premium in the cost of a BBRY? Security is the only one I can see. That and being left out or behind on new apps.
    BBRY needs a super-economical BB10 device in its portfolio a la what the Lumia 520 is doing for Microsoft... BlackBerry's device portfolio strategy requires a 200 page document to cover all the whys and why-nots of what they're doing... it's frustrating that what seems obvious to us as CrackBerry fans and technology fans (and in some cases, professional technology strategists) as the right way for BlackBerry to position their devices and their company in the market is apparently mysterious or seen as "the wrong approach" by BlackBerry Ltd.... the focus on enterprise is a viable one, but that doesn't have to mean the device portfolio has to be HOSTILE to the consumer market, just not consider consumer needs first and foremost. Serve the Enterprise, Serve the World. They could be Heroes.
    01-25-14 10:33 AM
  18. kbz1960's Avatar
    BBRY needs a super-economical BB10 device in its portfolio a la what the Lumia 520 is doing for Microsoft... BlackBerry's device portfolio strategy requires a 200 page document to cover all the whys and why-nots of what they're doing... it's frustrating that what seems obvious to us as CrackBerry fans and technology fans (and in some cases, professional technology strategists) as the right way for BlackBerry to position their devices and their company in the market is apparently mysterious or seen as "the wrong approach" by BlackBerry Ltd.... the focus on enterprise is a viable one, but that doesn't have to mean the device portfolio has to be HOSTILE to the consumer market, just not consider consumer needs first and foremost. Serve the Enterprise, Serve the World. They could be Heroes.
    True. This may be why they have left consumers to only buying their product if said consumer knows about it and wants it. At least in USA they have almost no presence in carrier stores and the only way to get one is to buy it online or have the store order one.

    If they ever decide they want to actually advertise and sell to consumers who aren't already a fan they'll need to consider the mindset of most consumers and they'll need carrier support too.
    01-25-14 10:41 AM
  19. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    Quad cores and screens like the z10's are power hungry. What makes the z30 so great is its power management, speed and smoothness, along with all the useful things it does so well. Earlier it was discussed how the z30 allows one to lose their laptop and they are absolutely correct. My laptop is rarely needed. OP you just don't get it. Next time your device is out of power, think of how much you would give up a quad core or a 1080 screen so your device was still available. The z30 is by far the best device I have ever had. And it never crashes. Amazing!

    Posted via CB10
    But you just demonstrated the "good enough" attitude the OP was referring to. Why make sacrifices when other devices have quad core processors AND 1080p screens AND good battery life? This is my G2 on a typical work day:



    16 hours on battery with 50% remaining. Pretty good, wouldn't you say?

    I said this in a recent thread and I think it applies here too. The problem isn't BlackBerry designing devices with lower specs than the competition. When we hear leaked specs for new BB devices they sound fantastic! Better than the current competition! The problem is how long they take to actually get to market. Think about how long we had known about the specs of the current BB10 phones. They sounded amazing when we first heard about them, but by the time they were in our hands they seemed a bit outdated. I'd love for the rumored Q30 to be out within the next 2-3 months. That would be a killer device! But the reality is it probably won't be released for 6 months (unless Chen's team ramps up production).

    I know it's easy to say that the Z30 is what the Z10 should have been, but I don't think that's accurate. I think if the Z10 had been released in, say, August of 2012 and the Z30 5-6 months later things would be looking a bit different for BB.
    kbz1960, TgeekB, DJM626 and 6 others like this.
    01-25-14 11:29 AM
  20. gallopiton's Avatar
    how can you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning?

    I saw one. I liked it. My sister bought it. still think it's pretty nice. Didn't know I was lying to myself. How am I going to be able to trust myself again?

    Posted via CB10
    01-25-14 11:43 AM
  21. BBUniq01's Avatar
    These silly arguments remind me of the audiophile debates about amplifiers and sound....just like the human ear can only hear so many frequencies, the human eye can only discern so much with screen quality.

    I have both the z10 and the z30. I love both. I have watched movies, created documents, surfed the Internet, watched youtube.....you name it
    ...on both units. I honestly cannot see the difference...both screens are beautiful, and crisp. Colors are great, HD looks awesome...and the larger screen on the Z30 is great!

    Quad core, dual core, albacore....give it a rest, OP....everything is a trade off....performance and speed over energy consumption. If it takes my Z30 1/50th of a second to load a page longer than a competitor's model, then so be it. I'm enjoying the overall experience, flow, and flexibility this OS offers....in a great hardware package to boot.

    I honestly feel that if all people are going to do is complain, then go buy whatever works for you...no one is shoving a phone down your throat. Every phone has its plusses and minusses....and you pick a balance between both.

    Both the z10 and z30 are great phones, and many people like then and use them to their full satisfaction. They don't work for you? Great. Sell them and get something else.


    Posted by my GINORMOUS Z30
    Well said!

    BB Uniq BB Bold -Z10 with 1925
    Im Mo Green likes this.
    01-25-14 11:44 AM
  22. BBUniq01's Avatar
    There is no way I'd go back to the Z10. The sound quality and battery life of the Z30 more than make up for any specs it might be missing, which to me don't really matter if the phone works great, which the Z30 does.

    The Z10 to me is a phone that should have never been released. The battery life alone keeps me from ever recommending that device to anyone.
    Something happened to me this morning that made me grateful for a removable battery. It was late last nite and I had placed my Z10 incorrectly onto my dock charger. So, the battery was almost drained this morning at around 10 am. All I had to do was swap the battery out and get going with my day. If I had done that with any other phone with a non removable battery, I would have had to wait for a full charge. So, for someone like me a removable battery is an important feature. And I had no qualms in purchasing a Z10 for my daughter. She is very happy with hers.

    BB Uniq BB Bold -Z10 with 1925
    01-25-14 11:48 AM
  23. kbz1960's Avatar
    Something happened to me this morning that made me grateful for a removable battery. It was late last nite and I had placed my Z10 incorrectly onto my dock charger. So, the battery was almost drained this morning at around 10 am. All I had to do was swap the battery out and get going with my day. If I had done that with any other phone with a non removable battery, I would have had to wait for a full charge. So, for someone like me a removable battery is an important feature. And I had no qualms in purchasing a Z10 for my daughter. She is very happy with hers.

    BB Uniq BB Bold -Z10 with 1925
    Or you could have a juice pack and do the same thing.
    CerveloJohn likes this.
    01-25-14 11:54 AM
  24. Beakman's Avatar
    All this talk on a need for better specs on BB phones kinda reminds me of the motorcycle I bought back in '00. The motor is 1100 cc, not the biggest, but it makes 164 hp @ 11,500 rpm. It's relatively heavy, at +550 lbs, but can move itself at over 175 mph. It's also kinda largish, but has a 6 gallon tank and a range over 200 miles (when not doing 175 mph) and can carry two people and three 50 liter hard bags in true comfort.
    It's also a "BB", in both it didn't sell well with the "in" crowd", didn't have all the bells and whistles as some of the competition, doesn't excel by a wide margin at what it does and is a "BB" because that was it's given name: the Honda 1100XX Super (B)lack(B)ird. 14 years on, it is still a benchmark in some areas despite its lack of "specs". What it does well, and very well at that, is give superior performance as a result of the sum of its parts, not top specs of each and every part.
    And this is what my BB Z10 is currently doing for me, performing quite nicely from the sum of its components, making the best of its specs as a whole unit. YMMV.
    web99 likes this.
    01-25-14 12:10 PM
  25. collinc93's Avatar
    short answer? Can we stop lying to ourselves is the title of your thread. I wanted to click like for some of what you said but then I re-read the title....in other words we are deluding ourselves if we like what the Z30 does for us in current state...and are liars. Sorry I couldnt click like or thank button for that--

    edit: Well you do have other people who dont mind what you wrote so...
    01-25-14 12:19 PM
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