02-07-14 06:57 PM
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  1. jhimmel's Avatar
    Why couldn't the OP just admit that he was lying to himself, without suggesting that everyone else is a liar too?
    I think the Z30 is an excellent handset. Love the battery life, and the thing runs SMOOTH.
    If BB could put quad core (or 20 core) processor in there without affecting the battery life, it would be fine with me - go right ahead, but since it runs smooth now, I wouldn't want them throwing more cores at it if it would take away from battery life just for core bragging of some kind. Maybe down the road they will continue to add capability and it could benefit from such. Maybe battery tech will advance a little too so that we could have both. :-) But given the choice, and as long as the handset is not sluggish, I'll go with battery life. It is really one of the specific things that prompted me to go for the Z30.
    I have not felt like I'm suffering with the screen pixel density, but same thing - if you can pump it up without affecting battery life - then I'm all for it. If not, I'd rather leave it the way it is. OP may be suffering from core-envy, but I am not. Actually couldn't care less.

    Also, from what I can tell from MarsupilamiX, the specs may be fine for the phone's performance, but since they specs are lower than other handsets out there, it should also be cheaper. Okay, won't argue with that.
    Elite1 and CerveloJohn like this.
    01-27-14 06:06 PM
  2. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Agreed but someone suggested a price of 300... Off contract..now that's ridiculous. Apple's cheapest ipod touch is 200 /: and their 64 gb ipods are like 350$.

    Posted via CB10
    I suggested 300.
    Because you can get phones that perform pretty well for that amountt and have all the apps one could want.

    The Nexus line would be an example, where you can get high-end specs in a 300$ phone.
    BlackBerry probably can't afford that with a high-end phone, but a phone with mid-range hardware is pretty hard to sell for a price of more than 400$.

    The iPhone plays in another leaugue alltogether.
    No matter what amount it costs, is completely irrelevant for BlackBerry right now.
    To a certain amount this is also true for Android manufacturers, but they at least have specs, an app catalogue and an ecosystem.

    Android tablets and the HP/BlackBerry fire sale on these products have helped to make iPads cheaper though.
    Either through a 7 inch one ( a bogus size for tablets ) or through normal price cuts.
    If the rumours are true, Apple will have a bigger screened iPhone this year.
    Which would further help them to stay competitive.

    Having said all that, the demand for iPhones is still somewhere between incredibly high and inelastic.
    Which therefore means that all the criticism we hear in these forums about the iPhone, be it earned or not, is totally irrelevant for discussions about BlackBerry.
    If you don't buy an iPhone, you'll buy a high-end Android with a comparable ecosystem and app catalogue to the iPhone. Maybe your Android will even be cheaper. But you definitely won't buy a mid-ranged Z30 without any of what I mentioned before, for 600$.
    (The "you" in this paragraph is meant to represent the average consumer)

    i would say 450$ and not a penny more
    It's 350$ for me.
    And that is also where I see most consumers being willing to experiment with a BlackBerry, because BlackBerry doesn't only have to undercut Apple.
    They also have to undercut the Android competition.

    At least if the plan is to gain marketshare.

    Posted via CB10
    01-27-14 06:11 PM
  3. playbookster's Avatar
    At whom exactly would that comment be directed at?
    It's not like we would have 10+ pages already, right?



    I take it from your statement, that you don't like criticism of the brand and that you don't take it well, when you have to read opinions which differ from yours?

    Posted via CB10
    The very first post obviously

    C001B7B16 The Gif Exchange
    habs_fan likes this.
    01-27-14 06:18 PM
  4. Elite1's Avatar
    Actually, the only difference is if you are comparing full-array, individually-dimming pixel LED backlit LCDs to other technologies. Edge-lit LED LCDs are no better than cold cathode edge-lit LCDs - LEDs are only used because they are smaller (allowing a thinner enclosure) and use a little less power, AND because it gave manufacturers the next thing to promote for a year.
    I'll respectfully disagree that there's no difference with edge-lit models. Standard-lit LCD TVs give me a headache when viewing for prolonged periods. Maybe there's a reason beyond this that I'm ignorant to, but that's been my experience.

    I will say though that staring for untold hours at my Z10 didn't give me a headache, so who knows...?

    Locally-dimmable LEDs actually DO improve picture quality by improving the black levels, but only the most-expensive, high-end TVs are locally-dimmable, and these aren't the sets that most people buy. It costs real money to make >2M individually-addressable LEDs, vs a row of 20 along the edges...
    I'm one of the "not most people" that owns one.

    ... most people just buy an "LED TV" and think they're getting something better, when the probably aren't.
    I agree with you somewhat, and I definitely know what you mean. I think what you mean is that it's not necessarily better just because it's an LED LCD. And that's true in some case. However since the public perception is that "LED" = higher end, it's typically the higher end models that also feature LED lighting. It's kind of a tail-wagging-the-dog scenario.

    Now that we've both beat this analogy to death, how about we call a truce and drop it?
    01-27-14 06:35 PM
  5. Elite1's Avatar
    I know what you mean, but what the poster said, doesn't make sense.
    At least for me, IPS >>>>>>> AMOLED.
    I would have agreed with you before having the Z30, but I really do like the display on it.

    On the screen res topic...
    Do I wish it had higher resolution, i.e. 1080x1920? Damn straight.

    For those that think I'm a fanboy, you'd be mistaken. I probably was at one point, but not any longer.
    When it was confirmed the Z30 was coming with a 720 display, I was angry. Obviously they should have had a 1080-res model coming out if they wanted to keep up with the Joneses. Last time I was that annoyed with BB was when the Torch 9800 was confirmed to be coming out with a 360x480 display.

    That said, I'm surprised at how much I really do like the Z30's display. I think we're at the level where 720p type res is more than good enough for a 5" display. Of course more would be better, but I don't observe pixelization at all on my Z30.

    I'm hoping the O-series or some 1080 (or better!) screen res model does materialize this year. I have the luxury of having numerous contracts available which I can renew and take the upgrade device for my line, so I'm sure I'll probably try it.

    BB10 isn't perfect. I could easily make a significant list of suggested improvements. BUT... I still prefer it over what else is out there. My opinion.
    Last edited by elite1; 01-28-14 at 01:04 AM.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    01-27-14 06:59 PM
  6. Meok's Avatar
    I'm not interested in keeping up with the joneses. If you are, go and buy an Android device. I have no intention of paying for something I don't need. That's like when multi core processors came out people believed that a computer wasn't good unless it had a lot of cores. So we had idiots paying for quad-core machine to use something like Word 2007 which can only recognise one core. People purchased multiple graphics cards and bridged them using ATI Crossfire etc., only to realise that the games they play can only utilise one card. No performance gains, but they could say they had a "top if the line" machine. Hyacinth Bucket went off the air years ago but her stupidity lives on.

    Response crafted in seconds on a Z30
    Last edited by Meok; 01-27-14 at 09:39 PM.
    CerveloJohn likes this.
    01-27-14 08:32 PM
  7. axeman1000's Avatar
    At whom exactly would that comment be directed at?
    It's not like we would have 10+ pages already, right?



    I take it from your statement, that you don't like criticism of the brand and that you don't take it well, when you have to read opinions which differ from yours?

    Posted via CB10
    Not that at all, but he says he wants chen to see something, just directing him to a spot that will have a better chance than here. Fan site not affiliated with BlackBerry. BlackBerry site is where Chen works.

    Never said blackberry is perfect, but rants like this are old news and crying on here will have as much effect as the same type of rants left here two years ago by other people.

    Let the rants go and look for the solution to the problems that others may be experiencing, not harp on them. In no way was the post a question looking for a solution, was it?

    Hate solves nothing, Respect gains everything!
    ray689 likes this.
    01-27-14 10:22 PM
  8. anon(3993749)'s Avatar
    I suggested 300.
    Because you can get phones that perform pretty well for that amountt and have all the apps one could want.

    The Nexus line would be an example, where you can get high-end specs in a 300$ phone.
    BlackBerry probably can't afford that with a high-end phone, but a phone with mid-range hardware is pretty hard to sell for a price of more than 400$.

    The iPhone plays in another leaugue alltogether.
    No matter what amount it costs, is completely irrelevant for BlackBerry right now.
    To a certain amount this is also true for Android manufacturers, but they at least have specs, an app catalogue and an ecosystem.

    Android tablets and the HP/BlackBerry fire sale on these products have helped to make iPads cheaper though.
    Either through a 7 inch one ( a bogus size for tablets ) or through normal price cuts.
    If the rumours are true, Apple will have a bigger screened iPhone this year.
    Which would further help them to stay competitive.

    Having said all that, the demand for iPhones is still somewhere between incredibly high and inelastic.
    Which therefore means that all the criticism we hear in these forums about the iPhone, be it earned or not, is totally irrelevant for discussions about BlackBerry.
    If you don't buy an iPhone, you'll buy a high-end Android with a comparable ecosystem and app catalogue to the iPhone. Maybe your Android will even be cheaper. But you definitely won't buy a mid-ranged Z30 without any of what I mentioned before, for 600$.
    (The "you" in this paragraph is meant to represent the average consumer)



    It's 350$ for me.
    And that is also where I see most consumers being willing to experiment with a BlackBerry, because BlackBerry doesn't only have to undercut Apple.
    They also have to undercut the Android competition.

    At least if the plan is to gain marketshare.

    Posted via CB10
    But BlackBerry doesn't have to convince the average consumer, they have a niche product. They don't need a market share of 30% or more to be successful.

    Specs are fine as they are, as someone already said, a more powerful processor and a higher resolution display would affect battery life. I don't want a cr@ppy battery life just so I can brag about cores and DPI. They won't make the device run smoother. And the DPI is already high enough so you don't see individual pixels from a distance of 10-12".

    I think the package is more important (build materials, design and OS user experience) and they got that right with the Z30. It looks and feels like a premium device.
    01-28-14 03:28 AM
  9. birdman_38's Avatar
    This has turned into an epic thread. We can argue both sides until we're blue in the face.

    The fact of the matter is since RIM entered the touchscreen race, BlackBerry has never taken the lead in specs. And probably never will.

    Even a couple years ago, specs were not that big of a deal. Now they've taken on a whole new importance with the consumer. What's equally as important is how the device performs with the specs it has.

    There's two camps...those who crave specs & performance akin to superphones in the same price category, and those who say "good enough". BlackBerry's target customer is the latter and it's not likely to change anytime soon.
    Last edited by birdman_38; 01-28-14 at 06:10 PM.
    JeepBB, kbz1960, Bbnivende and 3 others like this.
    01-28-14 06:50 AM
  10. SDTRMG's Avatar
    This has turned into an epic thread. We can argue both sides until we're blue in the face.

    The fact of the matter is until RIM entered the touchscreen race, BlackBerry has never taken the lead in specs. And probably never will.

    Even a couple years ago, specs were not that big of a deal. Now they've taken on a whole new importance with the consumer. What's equally as important is how the device performs with the specs it has.

    There's two camps...those who crave specs & performance akin to superphones in the same price category, and those who say "good enough". BlackBerry's target customer is the latter and it's not likely to change anytime soon.
    I completely agree and believe they only matter to android users because android oems have nothing else to complete with and this has made them believe due to that they have to have the top spec'd phone to get the best experience.


    Z30 - The Final Destination - Winnipeg Mb Clothing|Footwear|Headwear|Headshop|Tobacconist|Ta ttoos
    Last edited by SDTRMG; 01-28-14 at 05:39 PM.
    01-28-14 05:06 PM
  11. jhimmel's Avatar
    There's two camps...those who crave specs & performance akin to superphones in the same price category, and those who say "good enough". BlackBerry's target customer is the latter and it's not likely to change anytime soon.
    Does battery life not count in "specs & performance"?
    Take two phones - one with quad core and super hi-res screen, but barely gets through a work day (a co-working keeps putting his Samsung into Airplane mode to get him through the work day) - the other with dual core (with performance that seems just as smooth), lower resolution screen, but battery life that goes 24 hours and more.
    Which has better "specs & performance"? Wouldn't that depend on your perspective? Which of us is accepting "good enough"?
    I would say we are BOTH accepting certain trade-offs, and both are using what is "good enough" for ourselves and our own individual priorities.
    Elite1, Superfly_FR and web99 like this.
    01-28-14 05:37 PM
  12. Kurdis Blough's Avatar
    Does battery life not count in "specs & performance"?
    Take two phones - one with quad core and super hi-res screen, but barely gets through a work day (a co-working keeps putting his Samsung into Airplane mode to get him through the work day) - the other with dual core (with performance that seems just as smooth), lower resolution screen, but battery life that goes 24 hours and more.
    Which has better "specs & performance"? Wouldn't that depend on your perspective? Which of us is accepting "good enough"?
    I would say we are BOTH accepting certain trade-offs, and both are using what is "good enough" for ourselves and our own individual priorities.
    That's the funny part quad core phones get 24 hour in many cases. The benefit of quad core is battery life.

    Why pay more for less?
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    01-28-14 05:44 PM
  13. Juanes Santa Cruz E's Avatar
    Here's the thing, it's not about the price or capacity of your hardware, it's how you get the best of it. That's why I believe BlackBerry is great, not giving you useless hardware. Did you know that the S4 never uses its whole cpu? So why pay for it?

    Posted via CB10
    01-28-14 05:51 PM
  14. jhimmel's Avatar
    That's the funny part quad core phones get 24 hour in many cases. The benefit of quad core is battery life.

    Why pay more for less?
    I was not aware of that. Quad core is more power efficient that dual core? Thanks for the info.

    Posted via CB10
    01-28-14 05:54 PM
  15. anon(3993749)'s Avatar
    That's the funny part quad core phones get 24 hour in many cases. The benefit of quad core is battery life.

    Why pay more for less?
    That's because they have huge batteries. Quad core processors usually use more power than dual core ones.
    CerveloJohn likes this.
    01-28-14 06:13 PM
  16. ajst222's Avatar
    I was not aware of that. Quad core is more power efficient that dual core? Thanks for the info.

    Posted via CB10
    It's not always just that easy. We're comparing last year's high end dual core to this year's high end quad core. The newer model has probably become more efficient.

    Besides, look at the Note III or the Lumia 1520. Both have monster specs and get monster battery life. Granted, the battery size is larger (3300mAh and 3400mAh I believe) but it shows you can have power and battery life...plus neither have an awful screen. Both are also thinner.

    Edit: Also forgot about the LG G2

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    01-28-14 06:19 PM
  17. ajst222's Avatar
    That's because they have huge batteries. Quad core processors usually use more power than dual core ones.
    The 2880mAH (I believe) is a pretty huge battery itself. Compare that to the iPhone 5s, HTC One, GSIV, etc.

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    01-28-14 06:21 PM
  18. darkehawke's Avatar
    This has turned into an epic thread. We can argue both sides until we're blue in the face.

    The fact of the matter is since RIM entered the touchscreen race, BlackBerry has never taken the lead in specs. And probably never will.

    Even a couple years ago, specs were not that big of a deal. Now they've taken on a whole new importance with the consumer. What's equally as important is how the device performs with the specs it has.

    There's two camps...those who crave specs & performance akin to superphones in the same price category, and those who say "good enough". BlackBerry's target customer is the latter and it's not likely to change anytime soon.
    And here's the issue. BlackBerry used to target those who crave communication first and foremost. BlackBerry 10 has fallen short of what I used to get from BlackBerry 7.1 in terms of communication focus.
    I don't know who BlackBerry has targeted. They make a lot of noise about enterprise but it means nothing now. BlackBerry seems to be adrift. They need to get back to basics. Ignore the false enterprise and consumer market. They are both the same. Focus on communication again.

    Posted via CB10
    01-28-14 07:05 PM
  19. Kurdis Blough's Avatar
    And here's the issue. BlackBerry used to target those who crave communication first and foremost. BlackBerry 10 has fallen short of what I used to get from BlackBerry 7.1 in terms of communication focus.
    I don't know who BlackBerry has targeted. They make a lot of noise about enterprise but it means nothing now. BlackBerry seems to be adrift. They need to get back to basics. Ignore the false enterprise and consumer market. They are both the same. Focus on communication again.

    Posted via CB10
    I don't know that anyone can survive just focusing on communication.

    Phone, Email, SMS/MMS are standard. There is parity amongst the three major platforms in regards to these basic features.

    I am not suggesting that there aren't differences between platforms, only that these basic features are taken for granted. Keyboard, phone, SMS/MMS are not views as differentiators between platforms.
    01-28-14 07:14 PM
  20. anon(3993749)'s Avatar
    I don't know that anyone can survive just focusing on communication.

    Phone, Email, SMS/MMS are standard. There is parity amongst the three major platforms in regards to these basic features.

    I am not suggesting that there aren't differences between platforms, only that these basic features are taken for granted. Keyboard, phone, SMS/MMS are not views as differentiators between platforms.
    There is no parity and these features are what many of us use 75% of the time. Many email features I have and use every day are missing from both iOS and WP8.

    Why can't people understand that to a select few, communication and efficiency are more important than Instagram?
    01-29-14 02:49 AM
  21. Kurdis Blough's Avatar
    There is no parity and these features are what many of us use 75% of the time. Many email features I have and use every day are missing from both iOS and WP8.

    Why can't people understand that to a select few, communication and efficiency are more important than Instagram?
    Select few is precisely the point.

    The benefit of BB10 can't be phone, email, SMS/MMS. These features are ubiquitous offered even on feature and dumb phones. I don't see them as a differentiator. People chose other platforms despite BlackBerrys prowess in these areas.

    There is more to a modern smartphone than phone, email, SMS/MMS.
    kbz1960 and mornhavon like this.
    01-29-14 03:27 AM
  22. Morty2264's Avatar
    I agree with you, a hundred percent.

    If you take a Samsung Galaxy Note 3 or S4 and plop it next to my Q10, and say, "Okay, look. My Note 3/S4 have better specs than your Q10. They have more apps. They have a batter camera. They have better resolution." You know what I would say?

    "Yes."

    Because even though I own a BlackBerry, I am well aware of the platform's shortcomings. But every platform has its own shortcomings; especially when you factor in personal preference. Besides, I could always say to them, "How is word prediction or X on your phone?" and maybe I'd feel like my Q10 had better X than a Note 3 or S4, in MY personal opinion. But when it comes down to actual facts, yes, BlackBerry does not have the certain aspects other phones have.

    I don't know. I'm almost in the middle of things now. I can't stand to see the "extremes" posted here: either someone is so pro-BB that they cannot see the issues the platform has; or someone is so anti-BB that they don't even give it a chance or think the entire platform is crap without even giving it a little credit. Why can't we somehow meet in the middle?
    wbbady likes this.
    01-29-14 01:27 PM
  23. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I don't know. I'm almost in the middle of things now. I can't stand to see the "extremes" posted here: either someone is so pro-BB that they cannot see the issues the platform has; or someone is so anti-BB that they don't even give it a chance or think the entire platform is crap without even giving it a little credit. Why can't we somehow meet in the middle?
    Because people are jerks. Just like all other animals.
    01-29-14 05:09 PM
  24. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Because people are jerks. Just like all other animals.
    Because they don't try BB10, or because most can't stop to be radically biased?

    Posted via CB10
    01-29-14 05:27 PM
  25. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Because they don't try BB10, or because most can't stop to be radically biased?
    Both: if they're here on CrackBerry.com criticizing or praising BB10 without having tried it, or if they're unable to see any point of view but their own extreme one, I think calling them "jerks" is understating it...but mostly I wanted a reason to post the "animals being jerks" link because those things make me laugh ALMOST as hard as this. I mean that one where the dog pulls the chicken into the cardboard box and then... well, it's disturbing AND funny... kind of like this topic... but I'm always wondering "why are they recording video exactly when these things happen?"
    01-29-14 07:44 PM
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