02-07-14 06:57 PM
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  1. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I could be wrong but it seems to me that , prior to the Z30's release, that MarsupliamiX was adamant that any new large phone should have 1080P. I am not surprised that he found the Z30 did not meet his expectations.
    I agree. I have actually have a Z30 and used it since it was released. I thought that the large screen would be too big. Nope. I won't go back to the Z10 and the Z30 is the best phone I ever had and I keep testing users and they all say the screen looks great.
    deptech, Elite1 and Superfly_FR like this.
    01-27-14 12:38 PM
  2. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Mars, can you explain specifically in what areas you find the Z30 to be sub par?

    I have been using one since their release in Canada and I am very happy with its build and performance as my daily driver.
    I can totally understand that.
    Having a Z10, I can tell you that the Z30 is definitely the best BlackBerry yet.
    I wouldn't buy another BlackBerry right now, than a Z30, if I buy a new BlackBerry.

    My problems with the phone only appear, when I compare it with phones from other manufacturers.
    And this is actually a problem of market segmentation:
    For the price of the Z30 (launch price, MSRP) I am able to get significantly better hardware, a better ecosystem and a better app catalogue.
    It's not like I have a problem with the Z30 per se, because I like BB10, I like bigger displays, I like the Hub, etc.

    Where I stop caring about the Z30, is when I start comparing it with a Galaxy S4/ Sony Z1/ HTC One/ iPhone 5s.
    All phones in the same price-range.
    And all of them, at least by the way I see and compare current smartphones, have more to offer than the Z30.

    On the most basic level, you could say that my only problem with the phone is its price.
    It's just not worth the $ it costs right now.
    For me, the Z30 is a 300$ phone, not a high-end smartphone that you sell for 600$.
    The hardware used, clearly isn't in the high-end regions of other manufacturers (even Apple), the ecosystem is far worse and the number of apps I can get are very limited.
    Comparing the customer service from Apple with BlackBerry, is not even worth a comparison.

    But all of this, has to do with market segmentation and the price BlackBerry wants to have for the Z30.
    If BlackBerry would have introduced it for 300$ , I would applaude BlackBerry for finally getting it.
    I would have already bought one (maybe a second one for certain family members) and you wouldn't see me in this thread complaining

    But for the launch price (or the 500$ amazon.com wants to have right now), I expect certain things.
    Things like a 1080p panel on a phone that has more than 4.5 inches.
    A better camera, better CPU and better GPU.
    We can now add a better ecosystem, a better app catalogue and a better customer service as well.

    When I pay 500-600$ for a phone, these are things that I expect it to have, because every other phone in that price range, offers it.
    Since BlackBerry apparently is the only manufacturer who can't offer these things, they have to give me a better price (=a better reason) when I decide to buy one nonetheless.

    On the most basic level, it's still price.
    But it's something that implicates a lot of other things.

    I could be wrong but it seems to me that , prior to the Z30's release, that MarsupliamiX was adamant that any new large phone should have 1080P. I am not surprised that he found the Z30 did not meet his expectations.
    This definitely is correct.
    With the enhancement of:" Every big phone in a certain price-range."

    I wouldn't expect it on a 150$ one.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 01-27-14 at 01:09 PM.
    kbz1960, mikeo007, ajst222 and 4 others like this.
    01-27-14 12:39 PM
  3. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    It's like switching from an LCD tv to an LED tv
    Ironic, given that "LED TVs" are really LCD TVs that just use LEDs (as opposed to cold cathode) backlights. There are no LED TVs that are not also LCD TVs.
    01-27-14 12:57 PM
  4. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Ironic, given that "LED TVs" are really LCD TVs that just use LEDs (as opposed to cold cathode) backlights. There are no LED TVs that are not also LCD TVs.
    I didn't want to say it.
    But yes, you are correct

    Posted via CB10
    01-27-14 12:59 PM
  5. Meok's Avatar
    Quad core cpu is NOT necessary. People fail to realise that the devices are not running the same Operating System. For those non technical people, an operating system manages the device resources such as RAM and Processing power. The amount of resources required is determined by the efficiency of the management of those resources. QNX is a more efficient platform than Android, hence BlackBerry 10 can perform smoothly on less hardware. Increasing the hardware doesn't improve performance if the software has already hit peak performance on less resources. I always tell people, a "slower" machine running Windows 8 will outperform a "faster" machine running Windows Vista. Has nothing to do with the specs, Windows 8 manages resources better by far. Period.

    Response crafted in seconds on a Z30
    CyberMan2013 likes this.
    01-27-14 01:08 PM
  6. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Quad core cpu is NOT necessary. People fail to realise that the devices are not running the same Operating System. For those non technical people, an operating system manages the device resources such as RAM and Processing power. The amount of resources required is determined by the efficiency of the management of those resources. QNX is a more efficient platform than Android, hence BlackBerry 10 can perform smoothly on less hardware. Increasing the hardware doesn't improve performance if the software has already hit peak performance on less resources. I always tell people, a "slower" machine running Windows 8 will outperform a "faster" machine running Windows Vista. Has nothing to do with the specs, Windows 8 manages resources better by far. Period.

    Response crafted in seconds on a Z30
    ...
    .....
    .........

    Android doesn't need Quadcores as well.
    Windows Phone falls in the same ballpark.

    But what differentiates a high-end phone from a mid-ranged one?
    Right, better hardware and maybe better build quality.
    It's totally irrelevant, if the same OS is used, or not.

    The newest Lumias utilise the same hardware as the newest Android flagships.
    1080p, quadcores, an 330 Adreno GPU and 2 GB RAM.
    IIRC, the consensus in here was, that WP is so optimised that it doesn't need those specs.

    Why does Nokia use them now?
    Because of the so called market segmentation.
    A high-end phone, with a high-end pricetag, needs high-end hardware.

    Posted via CB10
    01-27-14 01:15 PM
  7. Elite1's Avatar
    Ironic, given that "LED TVs" are really LCD TVs that just use LEDs (as opposed to cold cathode) backlights. There are no LED TVs that are not also LCD TVs.
    I think most of us can understand what the poster you quoted meant without playing word games.
    If they had said...

    "It's like switching from a conventionally-lit LCD TV to an LED-lit LCD TV"

    ... would that have been better?
    That's what they meant, and I think anyone would have known that.
    01-27-14 01:36 PM
  8. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I think most of us can understand what the poster you quoted meant without playing word games.
    If they had said...

    "It's like switching from a conventionally-lit LCD TV to an LED-lit LCD TV"

    ... would that have been better?
    That's what they meant, and I think anyone would have known that.
    I know what you mean, but what the poster said, doesn't make sense.
    At least for me, IPS >>>>>>> AMOLED.

    Posted via CB10
    01-27-14 01:40 PM
  9. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Actually, the only difference is if you are comparing full-array, individually-dimming pixel LED backlit LCDs to other technologies. Edge-lit LED LCDs are no better than cold cathode edge-lit LCDs - LEDs are only used because they are smaller (allowing a thinner enclosure) and use a little less power, AND because it gave manufacturers the next thing to promote for a year.

    Locally-dimmable LEDs actually DO improve picture quality by improving the black levels, but only the most-expensive, high-end TVs are locally-dimmable, and these aren't the sets that most people buy. It costs real money to make >2M individually-addressable LEDs, vs a row of 20 along the edges, but most people just buy an "LED TV" and think they're getting something better, when the probably aren't.
    Meok likes this.
    01-27-14 01:43 PM
  10. playbookster's Avatar
    They are both the same resolution lol 720p is 720p

    C001B7B16 The Gif Exchange
    extisis likes this.
    01-27-14 01:44 PM
  11. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    Also, even the cheaper carriers like T-Mobile had the HIGHEST on and off Contract prices on their phones.
    Sorry to be nitpicky on this but actually T-Mo had the LOWEST off-contract price for the Z10. It was $531 at launch. Further, T-Mo hasn't had contracts for awhile, and I think that included when the Z10 and Q10 were launched. They may have been $200 down, but customers still have to pay the full price of the phone.
    grover5 likes this.
    01-27-14 01:47 PM
  12. grover5's Avatar
    Sorry to be nitpicky on this but actually T-Mo had the LOWEST off-contract price for the Z10. It was $531 at launch. Further, T-Mo hasn't had contracts for awhile, and I think that included when the Z10 and Q10 were launched. They may have been $200 down, but customers still have to pay the full price of the phone.
    Yep, I bought miner on launch day for $531 from tmobile and I feel it was a very reasonable price. And I might add I feel like I got a great deal and am very happy with my purchase.
    01-27-14 02:05 PM
  13. axeman1000's Avatar
    Please send to contactus@blackberry.com

    Get a better chance of Chen seeing it than here. Have a great day.

    BlackBerry forever, haters never!
    01-27-14 02:14 PM
  14. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    Yep, I bought miner on launch day for $531 from tmobile and I feel it was a very reasonable price. And I might add I feel like I got a great deal and am very happy with my purchase.
    I was STOKED at getting the Z10 on launch day for that price as well! The only problem I had was when the resale price started declining quickly. Until JUMP came along I got a new device once or twice a year and I'd sell my current device to pay for my new one. When the resale price started slipping I knew that I'd have to pay more the next time I wanted to upgrade. So, I sold my Z10 to a great Crackberrier with the intention on using something else that suited my needs and then pick up a Z10 on down the line after a couple carrier updates (that's still the plan).
    01-27-14 02:16 PM
  15. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    They are both the same resolution lol 720p is 720p

    C001B7B16 The Gif Exchange
    At whom exactly would that comment be directed at?
    It's not like we would have 10+ pages already, right?

    Please send to contactus@blackberry.com

    Get a better chance of Chen seeing it than here. Have a great day.

    BlackBerry forever, haters never!
    I take it from your statement, that you don't like criticism of the brand and that you don't take it well, when you have to read opinions which differ from yours?

    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB and mikeo007 like this.
    01-27-14 02:19 PM
  16. iN8ter's Avatar
    Sorry to be nitpicky on this but actually T-Mo had the LOWEST off-contract price for the Z10. It was $531 at launch. Further, T-Mo hasn't had contracts for awhile, and I think that included when the Z10 and Q10 were launched. They may have been $200 down, but customers still have to pay the full price of the phone.
    What was the off Contract price of the 9900 on T-Mobile?

    Given the lag between OS7 and BB10 I one they didn't expect me to buy one of those given the third player having cheaper phone and high end devices on established dominant ecosystems being the same or cheaper in price.

    Don't care about off Contract pricing. I don't buy off Contract and if I did there were much cheaper alternatives on much more mature ecosystems than BB10.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-27-14 02:30 PM
  17. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    What was the off Contract price of the 9900 on T-Mobile?

    Given the lag between OS7 and BB10 I one they didn't expect me to buy one of those given the third player having cheaper phone and high end devices on established dominant ecosystems being the same or cheaper in price.

    Don't care about off Contract pricing. I don't buy off Contract and if I did there were much cheaper alternatives on much more mature ecosystems than BB10.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Then you shouldn't have used T-Mobile as an example since they only deal with off-contract pricing now . And I completely agree with you that the 9900 was priced waaaay too high. I assumed you were just referring to BB10 devices.
    01-27-14 02:33 PM
  18. chrispmoto's Avatar
    The 30 is a great phone.
    Yes, the screen res sucks.

    Posted via CB10
    01-27-14 03:02 PM
  19. iN8ter's Avatar
    Then you shouldn't have used T-Mobile as an example since they only deal with off-contract pricing now . And I completely agree with you that the 9900 was priced waaaay too high. I assumed you were just referring to BB10 devices.
    I was speaking in general about how they have generally priced their devices high over the years.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-27-14 03:12 PM
  20. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    ...
    But what differentiates a high-end phone from a mid-ranged one?
    As much as I roll my eyes and some of the arguments over specs and the placebo-like claims about them, you do have a really good point
    01-27-14 03:16 PM
  21. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    As much as I roll my eyes and some of the arguments over specs and the placebo-like claims about them, you do have a really good point
    Thank you very much!
    I personally am of the opinion, that we should have attained a stage of development, where pretty much nobody needs a high-end phone anymore, for performance reasons.

    The smartphone market bears a lot of similarities with the PC market in that regard, as it's totally useless for the average consumer who doesn't need number crunching, who doesn't play videogames or who doesn't use video/photo-editing software, to buy a high-end PC.

    You could call it a certain threshold, which when attained, just doesn't offer the average consumer any compelling reason anymore, to buy a 600$ device for performance reasons, just like most people won't buy a PC for 2000$ anymore.

    That's also why the Z30 is a really nice phone, but BlackBerry didn't understood the market yet again.
    It's a phone with a wonderful new OS, conceived for an old market paradigm.
    A paradigm in which a high price can be justified without high-end specs, even though you don't produce iPhones.

    Edit:
    For the case of smartphones really becoming the next PCs, high-end specs may gain a lot of importance.
    Under that scenario though, the prices for "normal" smartphones will plummet even more.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 01-27-14 at 05:11 PM.
    kbz1960 and Elite1 like this.
    01-27-14 05:00 PM
  22. spikesolie's Avatar
    Thank you very much!
    I personally am of the opinion, that we should have attained a stage of development, where pretty much nobody needs a high-end phone anymore, for performance reasons.

    The smartphone market bears a lot of similarities with the PC market in that regard, as it's totally useless for the average consumer who doesn't need number crunching, who doesn't play videogames or who doesn't use video/photo-editing software, to buy a high-end PC.

    You could call it a certain threshold, which when attained, just doesn't offer the average consumer any compelling reason anymore, to buy a 600$ device for performance reasons, just like most people won't buy a PC for 2000$ anymore.

    That's also why the Z30 is a really nice phone, but BlackBerry didn't understood the market yet again.
    It's a phone with a wonderful new OS, conceived for an old market paradigm.
    A paradigm in which a high price can be justified without high-end specs, even though you don't produce iPhones.

    Posted via CB10
    I think the key here is blackberry isn't apple. Android device are only able to fight on with apple because of spec. In truth iphone5s isn't really the most spec'd out phone, it's just top dog and thus doesn't need this. BlackBerry isn't top and that's why you can hold them to average spec standards. If you do compare the phones there's nothing big anymore. Like you said the threshold is getting close. Just like the screen threshold...large screens have to stop somewhere

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX and kbz1960 like this.
    01-27-14 05:04 PM
  23. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I think the key here is blackberry isn't apple. Android device are only able to fight on with apple because of spec. In truth iphone5s isn't really the most spec'd out phone, it's just top dog and thus doesn't need this. BlackBerry isn't top and that's why you can hold them to average spec standards. If you do compare the phones there's nothing big anymore. Like you said the threshold is getting close. Just like the screen threshold...large screens have to stop somewhere

    Posted via CB10
    Yes, that BlackBerry isn't Apple is a lesson about product pricing, that they should have learned already with the PlayBook, or with the Z10, or the Q5.

    They are both the same resolution lol 720p is 720p

    C001B7B16 The Gif Exchange
    And to contribute through nitpicking:
    Z10: 768 x 1280 pixels
    Z30: 720 x 1280 pixels

    Posted via CB10
    01-27-14 05:25 PM
  24. spikesolie's Avatar
    Yes, that BlackBerry isn't Apple is a lesson about product pricing, that they should have learned already with the PlayBook, or with the Z10, or the Q5.



    And to contribute through nitpicking:
    Z10: 768 x 1280 pixels
    Z30: 720 x 1280 pixels

    Posted via CB10
    Agreed but someone suggested a price of 300... Off contract..now that's ridiculous. Apple's cheapest ipod touch is 200 /: and their 64 gb ipods are like 350$.

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    01-27-14 05:36 PM
  25. darkehawke's Avatar
    Agreed but someone suggested a price of 300... Off contract..now that's ridiculous. Apple's cheapest ipod touch is 200 /: and their 64 gb ipods are like 350$.

    Posted via CB10
    i would say 450$ and not a penny more
    SDTRMG likes this.
    01-27-14 05:39 PM
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