[Kurdis Blough]

The

It's the CrackBerry equivalent of shouting a false alarm of FIRE in a crowded movie theatre and it has gotten ooooold.

There is a fire. Fire sale of BlackBerry, no one bought. Fire sale of playbook, z10, z30 next.

I agree with the OP, maybe not his choice of words. There are many who frequent these forums, who despite their criticism, see value in what BlackBerry/BB10 has to offer. It's disheartening that the company's continues to go down it's current path despite monumental losses.

BlackBerry is dismissive of the competition and many on these forums would continue to offer excuses for the company's failures.

I like Samsung Hardware but make no excuses for their God awful design choices. I like HTC hardware and make no excuse for it's bloated software. I've never used but am intrigued by BB10. I will not however make any excuse for their sub par hardware, high pricing and lack of 3rd party software.

Here's the ironic part. BlackBerry doesn't need diehards, they already have them. They need people like me to buy in.


BlackBerry retreating to enterprise is a red herring. Hasn't that always been the strategy? It almost seems like their trying to pump the stock price for a sale. Just my opinion of course

[Sinhue Ruizz]

It's called personal preference.

I think it's more like a lie, I completely agree with him/her, as soon as somebody here realizes blackberry is not coming with what was expected most of you start giving stupid justifications, blackberry needs to work harder and to start listening to what other consumers say because, I'm sorry for say this, but people in this page won't be enough to save blackberry.

[dracolnyte]

but you cant deny that you want better specs on your Z30

[ajst222]

Another example of people in denial and lying to themselves is when they say that the Z10/Z30 camera can compete with the iPhone 5/5s and even some Lumia models such as the 1020. I've even seen someone say that the Bold 9900/9930 camera was better than the 5s...dead serious.

It seems like at launch, people here defended the Z10 camera to death and then finally toned down and admitted that it wasn't all that great. But I don't get why all of a sudden people are going on the offensive again.

EDIT: Another example that came to mind: back when the Z10 was released, it had a higher PPI than the iPhone 5 and everyone talked about that as a pro saying how the screen was better. But now that the Z30 has a significantly lower PPI than the competition it suddenly makes no difference.

Photo a Day Channel: C002B5A07, my amateur photo Channel

[spikesolie]

That's the problem. The Z30 is a midrange device at best priced as a high end device.

Photo a Day Channel: C002B5A07

Based on performance what else would it take for it to be higher end? I mean by your definition I'd say apple's 5s is midrange

Posted via CB10

[spikesolie]

We will have to agree to disagree on this topic! Often the people so obsessed with specs don't even KNOW WTF TO DO WITH IT. You want a DecaCore? Wait 2 months and something will come along. In case you haven't figured, the spec race is silly at best. If it runs your phone perfectly fine, you shouldn't be having a hard on about specs.


I don't see anyone babbling about how low end the 5s specs really is!! It seems just like yesterday that dual core were the next big thing.


Honestly from dual core to october core, what exactly is the average user gaining? Android fans are the ones who value this. How many apple fans flock to.line up for it based on specs? Windows phones?


What's the point ? Right now blackberry's name is in the mud to the point that no matter what spec they have, people will rarely give them.the light of day.

Posted via CB10

[Kurdis Blough]

BlackBerry being behind the curve in regards to specs places the BB10 device in direct competition with flagship devices released within the past 18 - 24 months.

I don't discount BB10 being a smooth experience. I would suggest that a Note 2, iPhone 4S/5, Nexus 4/5 are all competitive with a Z30 if one were to compare user experience alone. They are all solid devices.

[mapat]

Bigger better specs don't equal better performance. If the OS is written efficiently,
there is no need for ultra-high end processors. BlackBerry has always written their OS
with efficiency. Efficiency has allowed the BlackBerry to have great battery life.
PLEASE, understand that efficiency makes for a better phone.

[NaijaBerry]

The Z30 is a decent device. I used it, but in my personal opinion I like the Z10 a lot more due to the screen resolution and size. My main topic of concern is we need to stop with the "good enough" attitude and the "you cannot tell the difference" attitude. And stop berating and attacking people that are asking for better hardware.

I go around the forums and see some people raise valid criticisms of the Z30 (mainly its screen resolution) and I see them instantly get attacked. Many people say you cannot tell the difference between a 720p screen with 295ppi vs a 1080p screen with 441ppi, claiming its just a marketing term. Ummmm are you kidding me??? Like honestly have you guys seen a Galaxy S4 and a Z30 side by side? The Z30 screen looks awful compared to it.

Another is the "good enough" attitude. When it comes to CPU's for example, an S4 and its Quad/Octacore is much faster when it comes to rendering maps/images/editing than a Z30. But again people say the dual core is good enough to get the job done.

Ok so I want you guys to go back in time when the Z30 was rumored as the Aristo. Look down in the comments.

Flagship BlackBerry A10 rumored to be arriving later this year | CrackBerry.com
BlackBerry 10 Aristo spec sheet appears, calls for Quad-Core Krait | CrackBerry.com

Everyone was clamoring on about quad core CPU's, 1080p displays because why? Because they are necessary and its what the market wants (It is what we wanted on CB!!). No one back then said "Quad core??? Too much for me, lets bump it down to dual core its good enough. Also the screen, bring it down to 720p because really 1080p makes no difference". So I feel like BB can literally put out anything and many people on Crackberry will be happy with it and justify below par phones with some weird reasoning.

My reason for this post then is this. If we want to move forward and make BlackBerry a success again, we on Crackberry, the most hardcore users need to demand the best from BB and John Chen & Co. Demand them to put out the best spec, the most secure, and the best built phones out on the market. We really wont get there if we still hold onto this good enough attitude.

Hmmm...... me thinks your personal opinion is "good enough"

[BuffaloMadMan]

As tech enthusiasts we all should want BB to make a top specc'd phone for us. Although I understand where people are coming from with the "you can't tell a difference" well maybe not today buy most folks are stuck with a phone for 2+years and have a top specc'd phone just means our technology will be relevant for longer. Sure most people won't notice but people that visit this site should def want a top end phone that pushes the envelope. Do we need 8 cores today? Prob not but in a year maybe you do with how good games are becoming in mobile that could make a difference or even future os updates that need extra horse power. As a user of BB you should at least want a cutting edge phone in your arsenal.

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

[rotorwrench]

The Z30 is a decent device. I used it, but in my personal opinion I like the Z10 a lot more due to the screen resolution and size. My main topic of concern is we need to stop with the "good enough" attitude and the "you cannot tell the difference" attitude. And stop berating and attacking people that are asking for better hardware.

I go around the forums and see some people raise valid criticisms of the Z30 (mainly its screen resolution) and I see them instantly get attacked. Many people say you cannot tell the difference between a 720p screen with 295ppi vs a 1080p screen with 441ppi, claiming its just a marketing term. Ummmm are you kidding me??? Like honestly have you guys seen a Galaxy S4 and a Z30 side by side? The Z30 screen looks awful compared to it.

Another is the "good enough" attitude. When it comes to CPU's for example, an S4 and its Quad/Octacore is much faster when it comes to rendering maps/images/editing than a Z30. But again people say the dual core is good enough to get the job done.

Ok so I want you guys to go back in time when the Z30 was rumored as the Aristo. Look down in the comments.

Flagship BlackBerry A10 rumored to be arriving later this year | CrackBerry.com
BlackBerry 10 Aristo spec sheet appears, calls for Quad-Core Krait | CrackBerry.com

Everyone was clamoring on about quad core CPU's, 1080p displays because why? Because they are necessary and its what the market wants (It is what we wanted on CB!!). No one back then said "Quad core??? Too much for me, lets bump it down to dual core its good enough. Also the screen, bring it down to 720p because really 1080p makes no difference". So I feel like BB can literally put out anything and many people on Crackberry will be happy with it and justify below par phones with some weird reasoning.

My reason for this post then is this. If we want to move forward and make BlackBerry a success again, we on Crackberry, the most hardcore users need to demand the best from BB and John Chen & Co. Demand them to put out the best spec, the most secure, and the best built phones out on the market. We really wont get there if we still hold onto this good enough attitude.

I respect your opinion, but that's what it is, an opinion, not a universal truth, and it's no more valid than a poster's opinion that is in disagreement. Do you accuse everyone of "lying to themselves " that disagrees with you or doesn't share your opinion? Preferences of phones are very subjective and personal choices, guaranteeing differing opinions. That's what's so great about choice, and the freedom to make them.

[Superfly_FR]

The Z30 is a decent device. I used it, but in my personal opinion I like the Z10 a lot more due to the screen resolution and size. My main topic of concern is we need to stop with the "good enough" attitude and the "you cannot tell the difference" attitude. And stop berating and attacking people that are asking for better hardware.[...]

all IMHO, perception and experience: It's all about "the mix". In fact, it's all about trust.
It's a two-minded perception.

Specs to sell.
Would you prefer a 300+ horsepower car than a -100 one, even if you will probably never use it ?
Probably.

Specs to use
Would you prefer leather, candy paint, electronic assistance and reliability, for a daily usage ?
Probably.

So, what was former perception of BlackBerry ?
The devices met and run perfectly the OS they're designed for; we can see the leather and really don't care about the engine.
(P.S: until latest generations (say since 4S) same applied to apple)

What's current perception of BlackBerry ?
To sum up : questioning about pretty much everything. This thread is one of many exactly pointing at it.

Mixed :
I don't deny you can wonder "what if" the Z30 had a bigger *wow* effect driven by - costy by nature - specs. I do believe it'll be more appealing to a few bunch of nerds, those that would write pages of reviews flooded with "the strongest", "the fastest", "the biggest" or "first time ever" qualifiers. Would it help to sell ? Yup, probably. Enough to drastically change the sales performances ? I don't believe so.

Weird enough, it's mostly about screen resolution and processors (CPU/GPU) that we discuss.
I can see specs on my Z30 that are at least top notch (not to say unmatched) but barely retain attention.
Take the Paratek antennas; in no real world situation my Z30 have failed to surpass ANY competitor. Never.
Take the battery: I call it a NUKE. No one really believes me about my battery life when I claim "up to 24Hrs in a row - wifi/BT and 4G on - fingers in the nose". Since I got it (before official launch), and whatever the situation (town&country) or usage (phone calls to "mobile office") I've NEVER been in the situation of a mandatory charge.
Last night, I forgot to plug it on my bed side charger (note: I also forgot to remove my glasses ... hups !).

This is my gauge 24Hrs (plus 30 minutes) after last plug. I don't even want to discuss either or not it's an heavy, moderate or medium usage. It's just something I've never seen on any comparable smartphone.

EDIT : The screenshot I posted initially (now in thumbnail) this morning was chosen by mistake (sry). Here's The one I refered to :


I could go on with USB host, HDMI (and all the wireless video modes) or NFC : if you compare to competitors, most won't offer that all together.

So, where to go from that ?
The screen on the Z30 is lower spec-ed and may render less crispy than a retina or a S4 ? You're probably right. The dual core processor has xx% lower (theorical) power than a quad/octo one ? Yes.

But my experience is nowhere approaching deception, because some of the specs that are rarely discussed makes my Z30 a device I know I can rely on and keep the folks around me saying "wow" the very first second they have it in hands; leather is not an option on this device: the built quality and in-hands perception is great.

Yesterday I had a dinner with an Orange official (marketing/enterprise). She sports a Lumia and claimed how she likes the (undeniable) picture quality and asked me to show some pics to compare side by side ... this one of those I used to show her. She was impressed (and BTW found the screen very crispy and balanced and last but not least : "so fluid").
She was interested and I demoed some features like the hub and the keyboard (she loved that, but we'll slide O.T so I don't go further here).


I guess we can debate for years about it ... but my final thought is : "The day we'll just consider flagship as the best matching combination of quality, perfs, price and reliability - as we used to with former BB devices - is the day when confidence and trust will be back at the highest level". Until then, you can add whatever spec you want, it will not add much to the commercial performance. IMHO.

It's not "good enough" to me: it's best class for my needs.

Have a nice Sunday folks !

[Sayumi Whisp]

The Samsung S4 have a quadcore.. okay... but often it's laggy at the main screen...
You can put 8 cores in it.
If the software can't use it perfectly it's useless.
I have a z10 and it runs smooth.
Okay of course it's not perfect.. . But there is no perfect Device on the market.
BlackBerry is for productivity, and that's what I want.
If I want play, edit, or working im using my Notebook.

Why telling lying to myself?
More of everything is not always better

Ah before I forget.
If I want to make real good photos..

I took my camera.
No lumia, iPhone or z30 can make really good photos when you can use a real camera.

Wenn du mir sagst, was dort drau�en richtig ist, werde ich nicht mehr versuchen dich zu k�ssen... (Sayumi Whisp) www.sayumi.de

[revelations65]

preference I absolutely love my z10 except I wish I would have better battery performance, but that is with majority of smart phones, but with the phones being so cheap, just purchase a battery charger and few batteries,
Ironically Apple 5c I have heard will be discontinued, for me this is a victory in some sense, the z10 is still around, and people are now looking at this great phone, as a decent alternative to the overrated Apple ,
But it is preference , I will see what happens when this contract is over, next year, maybe a z50 who knows, but one thing I am sticking with Blackberry

[Cozz4ever]

Another example of people in denial and lying to themselves is when they say that the Z10/Z30 camera can compete with the iPhone 5/5s and even some Lumia models such as the 1020. I've even seen someone say that the Bold 9900/9930 camera was better than the 5s...dead serious.

It seems like at launch, people here defended the Z10 camera to death and then finally toned down and admitted that it wasn't all that great. But I don't get why all of a sudden people are going on the offensive again.

EDIT: Another example that came to mind: back when the Z10 was released, it had a higher PPI than the iPhone 5 and everyone talked about that as a pro saying how the screen was better. But now that the Z30 has a significantly lower PPI than the competition it suddenly makes no difference.

Photo a Day Channel: C002B5A07, my amateur photo Channel

Actually the Z10/Z30 does a better job with HDR than the iPhones I tested with the HDR feature. It was like the feature wasn't even turned on the iPhone. The Z10/Z30 clearly made the biggest difference in darker rooms. Though in other settings, the iPhone had the leg over the Z10/Z30 camera.

I do wish Blackberry supported better camera specs. But then again, several iPhone users think their phones are pretty loud and have excellent battery life. Thank you Z30.

[darkehawke]

Wrong wrong wrong. You all love to condemn people but even with the best of specs, you will still have people that won't even give blackberry the light of day. And I quote a friend when they saw me with a BlackBerry "I will rather be hung than use that POS"... that's without even looking at the screen.

The z30 is a true flagship device. It matches up with the best of phones. Specs talk is bs. The average user switching isn't doing it because of specs. The people that truly switch because of specs, I have respect for because they usually do it with a purpose in mind.

The average user is switching because of past experience and the cool factor..

I remember when the z10 first came out and I'd read reviews and the reviews would be really favorable to the z10 over the iPhone5 (back then) and then when I read further it will be like "all in all the z10 is a solid device but it doesn't have quite the premium feel of an iPhone. If you are planning on a new phone, apples new enlarged phone is the right choice ".

Stop kidding yourself as well

Posted via CB10

Can you even begin to say where he was wrong. He was absolutely right. BlackBerry is losing and the z30 sold less than the z10.
Something needs to change for BlackBerry.

Posted via CB10

[darkehawke]

Bigger better specs don't equal better performance. If the OS is written efficiently,
there is no need for ultra-high end processors. BlackBerry has always written their OS
with efficiency. Efficiency has allowed the BlackBerry to have great battery life.
PLEASE, understand that efficiency makes for a better phone.

This is correct. But BlackBerry are not the only ones to do this. BlackBerry just overcharge for it.
Let's compare the z30 and moto X. Similar specs right. Now look at the price. The z30 is way overpriced. The moto X is classed as midrange whereas BlackBerry thinks the z30 is high end. But why? Both perform smoothly and has great battery life.
Coupled with the fact that moto X comes with a host of features that BlackBerry 10 can't do then it's clear to see that BlackBerry have become the new Apple. Charging more for less.

Posted via CB10

[David Murray1]

lol @ at the melodrama over whether a mobile telephone has two CPU cores or four. 'First world problems' - well and truly.

[Djlatino]

Unfortunately, the title misleads, and makes people assume, hence the first reply "It's personal preference".

Without a doubt, this is a BB fan forum OP, and you're gunna get biased responses.

What you're asking is to put our love down of BB for a sec, and rationalize what we really got. You're asking for a miracle, son. With a matter of 3 pages worth of replies, almost 80% of them resemble what your "good enough attitude" issue is, yet people fail to recognize this. Constant screenshots of "um lol look at all da stuff im using and it aint lagging" "wut android, no android virus!!" proves that we are fans at hearts, and unfortunately, to the mind as well.

[anon3230140]

I'm a heavy Z10 user, and the poor battery doesn't even allow me increase the brightness, it's always on lowest. PPI this PPI that, how long can you look at the Z10 screen before it dies? Im going for a Z30 and nothing you say can stop me. @op

From Zuri my Z10.

Get the 4500mah battery dude. I use it and it makes the phone last forever.

Posted via CB10 on my Z mfk'n 10!

[jafrul]

I think I'm lying to myself..
I'm not happy with my Z30's battery life..








It doesn't lasts 2 days like most says it could..




Posted via Awesome Astro flying10.2.1.1925 on CB10. For a regular dose of Quotes, subscribe C001190A9 .

[bitje]

I have a HTC one and an iPhone 5.. still the Q10 with its inferior hardware is my daily driver.. If I look at it from a hardware perspective then I would not use the Q10 since it is inferior, with that I agree with you. Will I shift to the iphone 6 if it had a 5.7 inch screen, a two day battery life, saffier glas and liquid metal body?.. probably yes, but that is not going to happen anyway .. so for me it is not about the hardware inside, but about the quality as a whole.

[anon3230140]

all IMHO, perception and experience: It's all about "the mix". In fact, it's all about trust.
It's a two-minded perception.

Specs to sell.
Would you prefer a 300+ horsepower car than a -100 one, even if you will probably never use it ?
Probably.

Specs to use
Would you prefer leather, candy paint, electronic assistance and reliability, for a daily usage ?
Probably.

So, what was former perception of BlackBerry ?
The devices met and run perfectly the OS they're designed for; we can see the leather and really don't care about the engine.
(P.S: until latest generations (say since 4S) same applied to apple)

What's current perception of BlackBerry ?
To sum up : questioning about pretty much everything. This thread is one of many exactly pointing at it.

Mixed :
I don't deny you can wonder "what if" the Z30 had a bigger *wow* effect driven by - costy by nature - specs. I do believe it'll be more appealing to a few bunch of nerds, those that would write pages of reviews flooded with "the strongest", "the fastest", "the biggest" or "first time ever" qualifiers. Would it help to sell ? Yup, probably. Enough to drastically change the sales performances ? I don't believe so.

Weird enough, it's mostly about screen resolution and processors (CPU/GPU) that we discuss.
I can see specs on my Z30 that are at least top notch (not to say unmatched) but barely retain attention.
Take the Paratek antennas; in no real world situation my Z30 have failed to surpass ANY competitor. Never.
Take the battery: I call it a NUKE. No one really believes me about my battery life when I claim "up to 24Hrs in a row - wifi/BT and 4G on - fingers in the nose". Since I got it (before official launch), and whatever the situation (town&country) or usage (phone calls to "mobile office") I've NEVER been in the situation of a mandatory charge.
Last night, I forgot to plug it on my bed side charger (note: I also forgot to remove my glasses ... hups !).

This is my gauge almost 24Hrs (minus 30 minutes) after last plug. I don't even want to discuss either or not it's an heavy, moderate or medium usage. It's just something I've never seen on any comparable smartphone.



I could go on with USB host, HDMI (and all the wireless video modes) or NFC : if you compare to competitors, most won't offer that all together.

So, where to go from that ?
The screen on the Z30 is lower spec-ed and may render less crispy than a retina or a S4 ? You're probably right. The dual core processor has xx% lower (theorical) power than a quad/octo one ? Yes.

But my experience is nowhere approaching deception, because some of the specs that are rarely discussed makes my Z30 a device I know I can rely on and keep the folks around me saying "wow" the very first second they have it in hands; leather is not an option on this device: the built quality and in-hands perception is great.

Yesterday I had a dinner with an Orange official (marketing/enterprise). She sports a Lumia and claimed how she likes the (undeniable) picture quality and asked me to show some pics to compare side by side ... this one of those I used to show her. She was impressed (and BTW found the screen very crispy and balanced and last but not least : "so fluid").
She was interested and I demoed some features like the hub and the keyboard (she loved that, but we'll slide O.T so I don't go further here).


I guess we can debate for years about it ... but my final thought is : "The day we'll just consider flagship as the best matching combination of quality, perfs, price and reliability - as we used to with former BB devices - is the day when confidence and trust will be back at the highest level". Until then, you can add whatever spec you want, it will not add much to the commercial performance. IMHO.

It's not "good enough" to me: it's best class for my needs.

Have a nice Sunday folks !

No offence mate but your phone has been on 13 hrs not "almost 24hrs" as u put it. If you have the z10 with the 4500 mah battery It lasts just as long if not longer. Been off the charger since 6:42pm or so yesterday. It's 11am now. That's almost 15 hrs and when it shows zero I still have like 3 hours or so standby time left but as the z10 is not configured to read the battery capacity you just get a 0%. Screen brightness at about 95%, Two email accounts, all social networks running, loads of extra apps running i.e BlackBerry travel, hub++, Soccerticker, nfl app, phone calls, watched a lot of youtube videos using fast tube etc.. BBM messages and group messages, Skype, gtalk etc.. I used it heavily.



Posted via CB10 on my Z mfk'n 10

[Cozz4ever]

This is correct. But BlackBerry are not the only ones to do this. BlackBerry just overcharge for it.
Let's compare the z30 and moto X. Similar specs right. Now look at the price. The z30 is way overpriced. The moto X is classed as midrange whereas BlackBerry thinks the z30 is high end. But why? Both perform smoothly and has great battery life.
Coupled with the fact that moto X comes with a host of features that BlackBerry 10 can't do then it's clear to see that BlackBerry have become the new Apple. Charging more for less.

Posted via CB10

Maybe I'm mistaken but isn't the MotoX just 3G? Or maybe it's just the cheaper model you're comparing to the Z30

You shouldn't use Google devices as comparison. Google sells at break even prices and make money long term on services such as adds on the phone.

[ajst222]

Based on performance what else would it take for it to be higher end? I mean by your definition I'd say apple's 5s is midrange

Posted via CB10

The performance of the chipset isn't all that great. Look at benchmarks.

Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photo Channel