[Soulstream]

People on CB "wamnt" HTML5 apps because that's the only hope left for BB10 app issues. If BB10 had all the needed apps, most would react to web apps with "cool" and then move on.

Most developers don't develop HTML5 apps for mobile, hell, not even BB does it. Only in the CB echo chamber HTML5 is a godsend and will solve BB10's app prolem.

[app_Developer]

Apps are profitable. Its like the transition from gasoline to alternate fuels. The industry has developed around apps and it will take something really huge to break away from that. I would love to see a cloud system that allowed apps to be purchased/installed and run remotely. What dev wouldn't want their app to be universal with no changes in code.

I am a dev who doesn't want universal apps because I know universal is another word for "lowest common denominator".

Users and developers (and designers!) like iOS apps that are proper iOS apps and Android apps which are proper Android apps. Supporting 2 platforms is not so hard that I'd want to give up functionality and integration just so I don't have to maintain 2 apps.

If it were 5 apps, it might be a different story. But it isn't 5. It's just 2.

[ljfong]

Mobile websites/apps built on top of HTML5/JS have to usually cater to the lowest common denominator. Anything that has to work well universally (at least theoretically) has to cater to the lowest common denominator and cannot compete with things that are NOT bound by this philosophy/restriction. Facetime works as well as it does because Apple does NOT care about standards and interoperability in developing Facetime, it only needs to be optimized for Apple made OS and Apple made hardware. Standards and interoperability is a good thing to force everyone to play by the rules, but rules by its definition limit what you can do.

[TheBirdDog]

I am a dev who doesn't want universal apps because I know universal is another word for "lowest common denominator".

Users and developers (and designers!) like iOS apps that are proper iOS apps and Android apps which are proper Android apps. Supporting 2 platforms is not so hard that I'd want to give up functionality and integration just so I don't have to maintain 2 apps.

If it were 5 apps, it might be a different story. But it isn't 5. It's just 2.

But the difference is that for many big companies and developers, it isn't just the "2" because they ALSO have their mobile site (and should) because they WANT to be universally accessible. Sure, at the moment the smaller ones (BB10, Windows 10, etc) are getting axed first... But what do you think will happen once more people are using the mobile site compared to their apps? Once the majority of the use goes to the mobile site, big companies will drop the development of individual apps altogether because it means less development costs.

And, for the record, there are many instances out there already where the mobile site IS more capable than the app. Perhaps the interface isn't quite as smooth but the features are more complete. Once development of HTML5 moves further along, apps will slowly lose traction.

The monetizing and data-mining argument doesn't make much sense because there is just as much opportunity (if not more) for the same things to happen with mobile sites.

And, we aren't talking Angry Birds here... we're talking social networking, banking, and services apps where it makes far more sense to have a universal standard than multiple apps for different platforms. John Chen already said it. Sure, he was mocked for it, just as those of us who are still of the same opinion. But there are always those who are 'part of the trend' and those who can 'see the trend' and they aren't usually one and the same.

[app_Developer]

But the difference is that for many big companies and developers, it isn't just the "2" because they ALSO have their mobile site (and should) because they WANT to be universally accessible. Sure, at the moment the smaller ones (BB10, Windows 10, etc) are getting axed first... But what do you think will happen once more people are using the mobile site compared to their apps? Once the majority of the use goes to the mobile site, big companies will drop the development of individual apps altogether because it means less development costs.

Where is this trend of users moving to the mobile site? We are seeing the opposite.

And, we aren't talking Angry Birds here... we're talking social networking, banking, and services apps where it makes far more sense to have a universal standard than multiple apps for different platforms. John Chen already said it. Sure, he was mocked for it, just as those of us who are still of the same opinion. But there are always those who are 'part of the trend' and those who can 'see the trend' and they aren't usually one and the same.

So are BlackBerry blind to the "trend" as they maintain 3 different native BBM apps? Or are they just making the same rational and correct choice that other developers are making?

[Soulstream]

But the difference is that for many big companies and developers, it isn't just the "2" because they ALSO have their mobile site (and should) because they WANT to be universally accessible. Sure, at the moment the smaller ones (BB10, Windows 10, etc) are getting axed first... But what do you think will happen once more people are using the mobile site compared to their apps? Once the majority of the use goes to the mobile site, big companies will drop the development of individual apps altogether because it means less development costs.

And, for the record, there are many instances out there already where the mobile site IS more capable than the app. Perhaps the interface isn't quite as smooth but the features are more complete. Once development of HTML5 moves further along, apps will slowly lose traction.

The monetizing and data-mining argument doesn't make much sense because there is just as much opportunity (if not more) for the same things to happen with mobile sites.

And, we aren't talking Angry Birds here... we're talking social networking, banking, and services apps where it makes far more sense to have a universal standard than multiple apps for different platforms. John Chen already said it. Sure, he was mocked for it, just as those of us who are still of the same opinion. But there are always those who are 'part of the trend' and those who can 'see the trend' and they aren't usually one and the same.

But people are NOT moving to using websites instead of apps. I know noone who is on iOS/Android who uses the website for banking and/or social media instead of the native app.

I would really want an example where the website is more capable than the app and both are updated regularly (I admit I have encountered an app for a website I visit, but the app hasn't been updated in 2 years). I think the closest I have seen is the Facebook app and the website are pretty close in terms of design and functionality.

Apps are here to stay in the mobile market for a lot of years now.

[mvsalvino]

Browsers are colossal "meta"-apps that have to do hundreds of things well. With the extensive usage of javascript and other html5 features such as hardware interactions, browsers are becoming more OS-like.

The actual OS is still a much better user experience than a browser. It can simply render UI's and interact with hardware faster than a browser can. Until browsers reach this level of proficiency, apps will continue to dominate.

Native apps can respond faster and data-mine harder than a browser-controlled app can :-)

HTML5 becoming a widely used application standard is just as hopeful as POSIX becoming widely adopted back in the 80s and 90s. The dominant players would have to either lose or surrender their power for that to happen. If only all mobile and desktop systems were posix compliant then we could write one app that runs natively on any platform. Sigh... but I digress.

 C L A S S I C

[xtremeled]

Apps are a great way to minimize the amount of data needed but now there's no justification for low bit rate requirements. Everything is the Web. Aside from the business model of the 'app download' there really is no point for an app that does less than the mobile site.

What do you think?

Posted via CB10

There was a story or fable about a fox that lost his tail. He started telling the other Foxes how great it was , not having a tail. They didn't buy it. Blackberry has no apps. Trying to say that not having apps isn't really all that bad just wont fly. Not all apps have a corresponding web site. This is just another twist on excuses that BB is still a relevant platform. It's not!

[xtremeled]

Only in the CB echo chamber HTML5 is a godsend and will solve BB10's app prolem.

There is no solution to the BB10 app gap. BB10 is dead. yeah, some people still use it but it's not going any further and no one cares about it anymore. Blackberry doesn't care about BB10

[anon(7915689)]

I fear before long we'll see a generation of people who don't know what the free and open Web is because their only interactions with the Internet are through apps. Just as the 'ecosystem' concept is just 1980's computing before Windows all over again to some degree, the 'app revolution' is just the AOL web experience of the 1990's all over again.

Posted via CB10

It is already here. From Boomer's to Millennial's many people have no device other than their mobile. If they can't do it there, they just don't do it.

I run a volunteer non profit youth sports organization. We have a perfectly simple web page and blog for information, registration, etc. We have even added online registration (for a fee) so that they don't even have to get out of their chair. Most of our members instead repeatedly visit our Facebook page to try and register, ask questions, say they can't find information even though the web page is linked as a resource in the page info for those types of information. It is embarrassing how lazy people are. "I really want to do this, but am to lazy to actual do it. Can you enable me more than you already do? "

Passport. It's not as big as you think it is.

[donnation]

If apps disappeared tomorrow people wouldn't run out and buy a Blackberry. It's just not going to happen.

[kcdberry]

OP one question why you using cb10 app not the browser?

Good point.

Posted via CB10

[cribble2k]

Sure, but why do you think they'll be around 'for a very long time'?

Posted via CB10

Replacing apps with Web shortcuts is not practical, and no one asked for that. Majority of people want to go to their app store of choice, and download the official app for the services they use.

I have never found an app that lacks functionality of a website. In fact, I've found websites that lack features of apps. Furthermore, Web Apps wouldn't be able to post notifications to the precious BB10 hub.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[kvndoom]

If apps disappeared tomorrow people wouldn't run out and buy a Blackberry. It's just not going to happen.

I really need to peruse Windows Central just to see if WP owners come up with some of the same stuff I read here sometimes...

[JeepBB]

I really need to peruse Windows Central just to see if WP owners come up with some of the same stuff I read here sometimes...

I've not seen much of it yet, but give it time.

WinPhone has only just been set on the road to nowhere, BB10 has been travelling on that road since Chen came on board.

Check the Windows Central forums in a couple of years, and I'm sure you'll see those kinds of post ... it'll be CB deja vu heaven!

[BBd00d]

I fear before long we'll see a generation of people who don't know what the free and open Web is because their only interactions with the Internet are through apps. Just as the 'ecosystem' concept is just 1980's computing before Windows all over again to some degree, the 'app revolution' is just the AOL web experience of the 1990's all over again.

Posted via CB10

America Online, lol those were terrible days


Posted via CB10

[Superfly_FR]

OP one question why you using cb10 app not the browser?

Features ?
Well, that shouldn't be much different.
A web app could give as much as CB10 (probably more); it's just not the case here.

[Uzi]

Features ?
Well, that shouldn't be much different.
A web app could give as much as CB10 (probably more); it's just not the case here.

I think the reason is convenient, I like posting using the app rather than the website

[MikeX74]

I really need to peruse Windows Central just to see if WP owners come up with some of the same stuff I read here sometimes...

They're waiting for Windows 10 Mobile and the Surface Phone to fix everything.

[kvndoom]

They're waiting for Windows 10 Mobile and the Surface Phone to fix everything.

So every failed platform has its unicorn (cough Z50 cough)

Passport SE, "The BlockBerry" - Cricket Wireless

[Superfly_FR]

I think the reason is convenient, I like posting using the app rather than the website

I get that
What I meant is that the mobile view (web app) could easily reach CB10 level.
It's just ... it doesn't. Not by nature: by design.

[donnation]

I guess BBM will be moving to to the web then. I hope Blackberry is on top of this.

[app_Developer]

I guess BBM will be moving to to the web then. I hope Blackberry is on top of this.

And I assume Chen has ordered that the Good apps go HTML5 now as well?

Oh, and Good even makes an SDK for other developers to use in their own native apps. I guess BlackBerry has seen the future and will stop development of that SDK?

[donnation]

And I assume Chen has ordered that the Good apps go HTML5 now as well?

Oh, and Good even makes an SDK for other developers to use in their own native apps. I guess BlackBerry has seen the future and will stop development of that SDK?

Should happen any moment now lol. I also hope that Remember and Docs To Go are also undergoing the transformation to being web based as this is obviously the future.

[app_Developer]

Should happen any moment now lol. I also hope that Remember and Docs To Go are also undergoing the transformation to being web based as this is obviously the future.

Actually, that's an interesting question. How many HTML5 "apps" or mobile websites has BlackBerry, Ltd ever made?

Are any of their BB10 apps HTML5? Have they done any for iOS or Android?