[mikeo007]

Are you serious?

It is so completely ridiculous that it would be like someone asking me to prove that humans breathe air.

YOU suggested that Thorsten Heins did not care about big name apps. I suggest YOU prove YOUR mind-bogglingly ridiculous assertion before asking others to prove to you that the sky is blue.

I think TH did care about the apps per se, although I don't think he cared as much as he should have about having the apps available at launch. His always had an air of arrogance in his public statements, and I honesty think he believed (ignorantly) that large developers would be clamouring to have their apps on the platform. Once launch neared and so many of the big names were missing, we saw the panic kick in.

Anyway, on topic, it's always tough to see the good ones go. Especially when there are others still with the company that I think have no business being there.

[sixpacker]

I see this kind of comment a lot and I think it's a cheap shot.

Outsiders frequently focus on a few superficial things about a company's management individuals because honestly it's one of the few things they actually know about.

But those things generally have little to nothing to do with the job they are doing at the company, and fixating on them massively distorts the contributions that people make that are invisible to the critics.

The thing is this isn't a cheap shot. Chen not being based in Waterloo is a big deal. Businesses are about communication, interaction, personal relationships. In Waterloo he would have daily contact with people and see and hear how people conducted themselves. Plus his presence there would significantly change the atmosphere in Waterloo. Hirings and firings are going to be a bit of a lottery if he actually hasn't got to know many of his staff.

[sleepngbear]

Lots of personal shots in the last page and a half, not much to do with the thread topic.

Oh, look what Schnitzel is fetching. I think he's trying to tell us something....

[Clanked]

Lots of personal shots in the last page and a half, not much to do with the thread topic.

Oh, look what Schnitzel is fetching. I think he's trying to tell us something....

Cute dog brah......clearly you're a piece crap!

*jokes*

Posted via CB10

[richardat]

I think TH did care about the apps per se, although I don't think he cared as much as he should have about having the apps available at launch. His always had an air of arrogance in his public statements, and I honesty think he believed (ignorantly) that large developers would be clamouring to have their apps on the platform. Once launch neared and so many of the big names were missing, we saw the panic kick in.

Anyway, on topic, it's always tough to see the good ones go. Especially when there are others still with the company that I think have no business being there.

Could be....I suspect he knew mike....but if he didn't...well that's direct incompetence.....if you were that misguided, and could not see where they stood on something that straightforward then.....well....you're a terrible ceo! ;-)

[anon(3896606)]

I was going to ignore it, but I can't.
All of you people arguing about app development on BlackBerry 10, should go do it somewhere else.
This is a thread about an employee that was unfortunately let go, and all of you arguing about something completely unrelated is disrespectful.
Jeez.

[Omnitech]

I think TH did care about the apps per se, although I don't think he cared as much as he should have about having the apps available at launch.

The claim made was extremely absolute - ie "TH doesn't care about big-name apps". That's patently ridiculous, as I have stated.

Whether or not he should have "cared more" - that a much more complex and reasonable question. However I still maintain that MOST people who make such criticisms are massively oversimplifying, acting from a position of almost complete ignorance of the big-picture and backstory, and many of which appear to not have the foggiest notion how to run a business at all, much less a multi-billion dollar multinational consumer electronics business.

There is no doubt in my mind that Heins cared a lot about headline apps - he just is not so stupid as to discount what anyone with half a clue about the industry knows is a critical issue. But people on CB, in my experience have a very strong tendency to confuse lack of results with lack of desire, lack of committment, lack of interest, lack of skill, lack of knowledge, etc. without the foggiest notion of what the actual challenges and possibilities are about getting the results that end-users are so convinced are necessary.

BlackBerry had a very difficult task trying to woo developers to their new platform at a time when their marketshare and financial resources had dwindled so low that developers didn't see the benefit in making an effort in behalf of the platform and BlackBerry had little to offer them to change their minds. I actually think the effort BlackBerry was making to attract developers was probably superior to all other competitors at the time, when all the popular platforms like Android and iOS had to do for all practical purposes is hang an "open for business" sign and developers come flocking.

His always had an air of arrogance in his public statements, and I honesty think he believed (ignorantly) that large developers would be clamouring to have their apps on the platform.

I never got the impression Heins was arrogant, I think he came across as slightly stiff and aloof, a matter of personal style that I don't hold against him. Rather than arrogance, I think he struck me as possibly not initially gripping the weight of the trouble BlackBerry was in, starting with some comments along the lines of "everything is fine" shortly after he was named CEO, which he ended up backtracking-on within a month or so as I recall.

BlackBerry as a whole had a reputation of being perceived as "arrogant", I do not think that started and ended with a single person. As a matter of fact, I found Lazaridis and Balsillie FAR more arrogant than Heins ever was.

[Omnitech]

I was going to ignore it, but I can't.
All of you guys arguing about app development on BlackBerry 10, should go do it somewhere else.
This is a thread about an employee that was unfortunately let go, and all of you arguing about something completely unrelated is disrespectful.
Jeez.

Disrespectful?

Brian obviously has a lot of fans but he only made the initial post here and apparently never returned to the thread. How could it be disrespectful if people continue to discuss the background behind the termination of an employee that was apparently widely respected?

[Omnitech]

The thing is this isn't a cheap shot. Chen not being based in Waterloo is a big deal. Businesses are about communication, interaction, personal relationships. In Waterloo he would have daily contact with people and see and hear how people conducted themselves. Plus his presence there would significantly change the atmosphere in Waterloo. Hirings and firings are going to be a bit of a lottery if he actually hasn't got to know many of his staff.

All other factors remaining the same I don't disagree that it could be beneficial to have him there more (and I don't think any one of us knows exactly how much time he is physically at the company headquarters as it is), but I still think it's an awfully lazy and simplistic criticism when the job of a person in that role is far more complex than can be summarized as all about where he happens to commute from.

[anon(3896606)]

Disrespectful?

Brian obviously has a lot of fans but he only made the initial post here and apparently never returned to the thread. How could it be disrespectful if people continue to discuss the background behind the termination of an employee that was apparently widely respected?

I do understand where you are coming from, however, try to see where I am coming from.
This thread was originally created because the widely-loved Brian was let go, I expected a few posts about the executives that should have been let go, instead of him. (And even a few conspiracies...)
However, when you guys are arguing about app development, and previous executives that have no correlation with the subject. Except T.H, and he is only partially involved, as he was the person who announced/lead the reductions in employees.
Just my opinion, I suppose, everyone has their own...

[RubberChicken76]

BlackBerry as a whole had a reputation of being perceived as "arrogant", I do not think that started and ended with a single person. As a matter of fact, I found Lazaridis and Balsillie FAR more arrogant than Heins ever was.

That was how I saw it. Mike and Jim (in public) acted like nothing was wrong, everything was fine and nothing needed to be done. Heins was quite a bit more blunt and Chen substantially more blunt than that without Heins spin.



Posted via CB10

[webber27]

The person who really needs to be fired is whoever is responsible for allowing this:



Posted via CB10

[Omnitech]

That was how I saw it. Mike and Jim (in public) acted like nothing was wrong, everything was fine and nothing needed to be done. Heins was quite a bit more blunt and Chen substantially more blunt than that without Heins spin.

To take just one glaring example: the fact that neither Lazaridis nor Balsillie ever bothered to sit down with CrackBerry and do even a single interview says it all, to me.

[Omnitech]

The person who really needs to be fired is whoever is responsible for allowing this:

That's the kind of thing I was referring-to in my initial post here, which I was under the impression was the responsibility of Marty Mallick.

But once again - I'd imagine that there was lots of pressure from management to plump up the "app numbers" as high as possible, and whoever was in that position may have had their hands tied.

Likewise with the ultra-obnoxious policy that allows app developers to kill negative reviews by the boatload, no matter how reasonable, no matter how respectfully worded, no matter how well-supported.

[birdman_38]

Are you serious?

It is so completely ridiculous that it would be like someone asking me to prove that humans breathe air.

YOU suggested that Thorsten Heins did not care about big name apps. I suggest YOU prove YOUR mind-bogglingly ridiculous assertion before asking others to prove to you that the sky is blue.

Lol that's exactly the type of response I expected from you. You have nothing to back up your counterpoint so you just turn it into a personal attack.

Give me something... a link to a blog post, a quote from an earnings call, a YouTube link. Anything to prove Thorsten Heins was genuinely interested in getting the most sought-after titles to arrive on BlackBerry 10. ("He had a guy" and "He had budget" don't count)

[birdman_38]

Thorsten Heins was as interested in getting big name apps to BlackBerry 10 as John Chen is in consumer marketing.

[Omnitech]

Thorsten Heins was as interested in getting big name apps to BlackBerry 10 as John Chen is in consumer marketing.

Until I have some reason to believe you have discussed these things with these individuals directly or at least have some actual specific knowledge rather than just throwing out hail-mary passes, I will just laugh at you.

[birdman_38]

Until I have some reason to believe you have discussed these things with these individuals directly or at least have some actual specific knowledge rather than just throwing out hail-mary passes, I will just laugh at you.

Yup, because you have no way to prove your point. Attack, attack, attack.

[howarmat]

and since all you seem to be doing is arguing we will just put this to rest