[bbmme]

Don't care eh, all I know is I will be part of the 70%!!

[Superfly_FR]

I'm a little concerned that the general marketplace won't understand the Flow UI.

It is very intuitive, I can testify it's a less than 10 minutes learning curve (then maybe a week usage to get the most of it).
BUT anyways, there's still a "standard" navigation mode, where you can press the small icons to access the hub or apps pages (see bellow, just above the search icon).
So the only mandatory gesture to learn is the swipe up ... no real big deal IMHO. (btw, welcome the semi-transparent icon background )

[greggebhardt]

So how many users would that be?

RIM will need way more than that. They need corporate and government accounts! Which will follow if RIM can pull BB10 off!

[bk1022]

70% is low actually. If you asked iOS or Android users if they would be getting another iOS or Android or even Windows Phone you should get at least 70%..

RIM is at least lucky that some people have been waiting to see so they are ready to upgrade. My worry is the phones will cost like $699 or $349 on contract and people will balk and RIM will have shot itself in the foot.

[qbnkelt]

I used my upgrade for my SGIII so I will be buying outright.
Not sure about the N. Not keen on it. So far.


Sent from my SEXY HOT RED SGIII using Tapatalk 2

[Superfly_FR]

70% is low actually. If you asked iOS or Android users if they would be getting another iOS or Android or even Windows Phone you should get at least 70%..

RIM is at least lucky that some people have been waiting to see so they are ready to upgrade. My worry is the phones will cost like $699 or $349 on contract and people will balk and RIM will have shot itself in the foot.

Why should RIM sell off anything while Joes currently buy an ip or S3 over $600 off contract ?
Under no circumstance must they "beg to buy", these are high-end devices with astonishing new feature. You want it ? You pay the right price.
There's only one segment in current global economies mess that is still performing strong : luxury goods.
BB10 high-end smartphone (as other devices) is a luxury good.

Then let's patiently wait for mid-2013 to see the curve-range-like appear; then it will be time to place the right (moderate) price, both for individuals and companies to promote services and make the cash with theses.

[Nindia]

I agree with Superfly. If these devices are priced too low it takes away from the appeal. I know that sounds stupid, but if iPhones were a dime a dozen, the demand for them and the status that goes along with owning one wouldn't exist.

I consider(ed) BlackBerry's to be premium devices and I think with BB10 they will get to that status again.

RIM needs a range of BB10 devices...the L and N series I've seen so far in my opinion should be towards the higher end of that range. They need a curve line and maybe a cheaper touch screen line to keep people that want a BB10 device but not spend a lot of money.

[Skeevecr]

If BlackBerry offered a full-size screen (similar to Storm / Torch) with side-sliding keyboard the decision about buying a BlackBerry 10 smartphone would be so easy. I like the overall form-factor of the most recent BlackBerry 10 smartphone and with a side-slider keyboard I would pay the off-contract price in a heartbeat.

Given the way the market has gone these days, I would suspect that until bb10 has established itself there will not be room for a more niche form factor and when a slider eventually shows up it will be of a similar size as the l-series with the all-touch model having grown by then.

[Skeevecr]

I think everyone of sound mind on this forum can agree that 30 January 2013 will be the moment Research In Motion proves whether the restructuring has been enough to deliver the goods. If Thorsten Heins pulls off this corporate turn-around in the scant 12 months under his reign as Chief Executive Officer he will have pulled off the equivalent of a miracle. I'll light a candle but keep a pitch fork handy. LOL

To only give the credit to Thorsten would be doing a disservice to the previous bosses who set things in motion with qnx, tat etc. well before he took over even if they did make plenty of errors along the way too.

[notfanboy]

If you're going to throw some stats out, back them up.

Of the 80 million subscribers, what % are:

Bolds
Curves
Torches
Pearls
Styles
Storms

And what % are are which OS.

Do explain your methodology

Well for starters, look at this very recent report from Comscore. It calculates that RIM subscribers (not to be confused with units sold per quarter) number 9 million in the US with 7.8% of the smartphone pie. Canada is very much a Blackberry nation with 36% for a total of 3 million subscribers. That's 12M out of 80M in North America. I'm too lazy to look up the numbers for Western Europe but let's be very generous and say its like the US market. So you have 21M in the markets who have the highest percentage of premium devices. Africa, Caribbean, Latin America users are mostly into low-end devices.

[Superfly_FR]

Well for starters, look at this very recent report from Comscore. It calculates that RIM subscribers (not to be confused with units sold per quarter) number 9 million in the US with 7.8% of the smartphone pie. Canada is very much a Blackberry nation with 36% for a total of 3 million subscribers. That's 12M out of 80M in North America. I'm too lazy to look up the numbers for Western Europe but let's be very generous and say its like the US market. So you have 21M in the markets who have the highest percentage of premium devices. Africa, Caribbean, Latin America users are mostly into low-end devices.

Add Asia/Indonesia and Autralia ... maybe then you'll hit the 50 ?

Yet it does not split the cake by range: how many curves for 1 bold ?
And even then ...
How many dual sporters (ip (high range) + BB (mid/low range)) will jump for a single one ?

That's a - polite - no to your assumption. I do not pretend I'm 100% right, neither can you

[aragone79]

Add Asia/Indonesia and Autralia ... maybe then you'll hit the 50 ?

Yet it does not split the cake by range: how many curves for 1 bold ?
And even then ...
How many dual sporters (ip (high range) + BB (mid/low range)) will jump for a single one ?

That's a - polite - no to your assumption. I do not pretend I'm 100% right, neither can you

You're right superfly. We can not judge like that. Only time can answer that.

Btw, when porsche was released at Indonesia, i thought who will buy BB porsche. But right now, all porsche stock is empty. Thousands is not enough for Indonesia market actually.

Porsche leverage person who has it at our social life. So, bring 10k of Aristo here, and I'm sure the stock will vanish within 2-3 months at longest.

L series? Need million for the stock here.

We don't have any contract here. If you like a smartphone, you have enough funds, you can buy it ASAP at full cost of course.

[Superfly_FR]

We don't have any contract here.

-- off topic --
aragone, may I suggest you update your profile, so that it would be immediately clear :
1/ Where you are living (country)
2/ That you describes what you actually see

[aragone79]

-- off topic --
aragone, may I suggest you update your profile, so that it would be immediately clear :
1/ Where you are living (country)
2/ That you describes what you actually see

I thought I already update my profile especially for the country or didn't?

[chrysaurora]

To only give the credit to Thorsten would be doing a disservice to the previous bosses who set things in motion with qnx, tat etc. well before he took over even if they did make plenty of errors along the way too.

Actually, I don't know. I think the old bosses did disservice to their end customers. Sure, they did set things in motion but motion to where? up or down? I think down. They made some great acquisition but I doubt they'd have done what Thorsten has been able to do with them so far.

[Superfly_FR]

I thought I already update my profile especially for the country or didn't?

doesn't show in your side resume but, oh yess, shows in the popup. My bad lol didn't even noticed this has changed ... kills me !

[DuexNoir]

If you're going to throw some stats out, back them up.

Of the 80 million subscribers, what % are:

Bolds
Curves
Torches
Pearls
Styles
Storms

And what % are are which OS.

Do explain your methodology

What you're asking for is going into details that the original study wasn't focusing on. They were probably considering a BB is a BB is a BB. There will be those who have Curves (such as myself) who will make the leap to an L-series. So in other words, although some consumers may start out at the low end, that doesn't mean they won't make the jump to a high-end device. Lifestyles change and financials change.

Also, I keep getting the sense that many still grossly underestimate the financial capacity of certain "developing" worlds (and it's not only from this forum but in general). The global economies have done some major reshuffling in the last decade and many countries that one might not have considered to be capable of buying Ferrari are probably buying enough to more than shock you. It was this mentality towards China that, before they were able to blink, that country has surpassed all other developed nation economies with the exception of the U.S. (...at least not yet but if the current trend continues, they will...so better blink quickly). If you argue about overall percentage of the population in the developed nations having greater capacity, then that may be true, but then you will have to consider that in many of these other countries, their phones are not subsidized by their carriers. If this was the same case in NA, will the number of iPhone buyers, etc., still remain the same? I would suspect it will be smaller. Moreover, one also has to consider the debt load consumers over here choose to acquire just to obtain their luxury goods and lifestyle compared to other nations. If you sell 10 phones in Nation A where 8 of 10 buy outright with cash but in Nation B only 5 of 10 (remaining 5 are on debt for their phones), the outcome will be different. I don't know those details, and I'm not sure such details are ever made public, because all we hear about is the total number of phones sold (not how consumers manage to buy them). But those are factors that do impact the overall national economy. I may be wrong in my argument but overall I feel that we are underestimating many "developing" nations, and that may just come back to bite us. Also, excuse me for such a long post.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Big difference in wanting to do something, and actually doing it once you know what it will cost you.

Pricing is unknown at this point, and release and pricing of the lower end devices - which are the once that RIM has been the most successful with of late.

That said, while any sale is good, what RIM needs is NEW customers or at least to gain back customers that they have lost. Just converting existing customers over is not going to gain them the marketshare that they need to be relevant. And if they aren't relevant, then business are not going to support BB apps, and "GOOD" developers are not going to support BB. Which continues the cycle of why buy the devices if you can't access apps or content because your device is not supported.

I think RIM has a shot if they get enough hype in the mainstream media (some people seem to think CrackBerry is mainstream), and sales start off good. Then you might see support build for the new platform. But if RIM stay under 10% marketshare, then you could quickly see that support drop.

[Wino Ryder]

Back to the topic at hand: My husband just called me a Blackberry Snob (gasp) because I can't wait to upgrade from my Android to a brand spanking new BB10. What an excellent compliment!

Absolutely 'Blackberry Snob', but dont feel bad, my son calls me a 'Blackberry Elitist'. I'm the only Blackberry user in a house of Androids.

[bk1022]

Big difference in wanting to do something, and actually doing it once you know what it will cost you.

Pricing is unknown at this point, and release and pricing of the lower end devices - which are the once that RIM has been the most successful with of late.

That said, while any sale is good, what RIM needs is NEW customers or at least to gain back customers that they have lost. Just converting existing customers over is not going to gain them the marketshare that they need to be relevant. And if they aren't relevant, then business are not going to support BB apps, and "GOOD" developers are not going to support BB. Which continues the cycle of why buy the devices if you can't access apps or content because your device is not supported.

I think RIM has a shot if they get enough hype in the mainstream media (some people seem to think CrackBerry is mainstream), and sales start off good. Then you might see support build for the new platform. But if RIM stay under 10% marketshare, then you could quickly see that support drop.

I totally agree with scalemaster. RIM has one shot at this. They have one chance to retain corporate clients. They have one chance to get a proper ecosystem. They have one chance to get new customers or get old customers back.

Corporate clients are very price sensitive. They don't need a fleet of premium phones. Devs will put the final nail in RIM's coffin if they don't build a BB10 user base fast. I firmly believe the PB could have had decent sales numbers out of the gate if they sold it for cheaper and then it would have had a decent ecosystem. They didn't, it doesn't and now it is basically a flop.

The next flop will be RIM's shareholders bouncing off the pavement because they will jump off their balconies.

[aragone79]

So that's why I'm sure RIM will five their best shot on BB10. They face 2 totally different faith here, death or success. Now or Never. If we face the same situation, we will give our super maximum capabilities to avoid our death.

[texazzpete]

70% is low actually. If you asked iOS or Android users if they would be getting another iOS or Android or even Windows Phone you should get at least 70%..

RIM is at least lucky that some people have been waiting to see so they are ready to upgrade. My worry is the phones will cost like $699 or $349 on contract and people will balk and RIM will have shot itself in the foot.

70% is 'low'?! What world do you live in where this is even remotely possible?

Not sure if OS 6/7 devices are more than 70% of the total install base.

[kdna]

BlackBerry will dominate with the BlackBerry 10 platform. The power of what we'll soon be able to do from the palm of our hands can only be described as revolutionary and disruptive.
Research in Motion already has an "in" in automotive. Embedded devices (check), mobile (check), secure and guaranteed reliability infrastructure(check), the largest private social network aka BBM (check). Best in class email experience (check). The list goes on.

[qbnkelt]

Is there a link to these actual surveys somewhere? Did I miss it?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Skeevecr]

What you're asking for is going into details that the original study wasn't focusing on. They were probably considering a BB is a BB is a BB. There will be those who have Curves (such as myself) who will make the leap to an L-series. So in other words, although some consumers may start out at the low end, that doesn't mean they won't make the jump to a high-end device. Lifestyles change and financials change.

The other thing to bear in mind is that even if some people stick with their existing bbos device for now due to cost, that will just lead to another boost as the lower priced models start to get released or those who want a physical keyboard wait for the n-series.

One thing I do hope that Rim do is find ways to encourage sales of the initial models when they get some extra attention due to the release of a new model e.g. every time they release a new model, the l-series gets a new colour variant or special deals that keep people locked into blackberry regardless of which bb10 model they choose.