[Sairos]

BlackBerry only became mainstream after they were successful in the enterprise and government market. They were very appealing until the iPhone arrived. Then came Android.

Yeah that's true but the success in that segment didn't produce the mainstream appeal.. I had them because I liked them, and the majority of people in a lot of countries don't know anything about the Govs & enterprises, Specially in the developing countries.. They sold a lot of phones because of BBM and the ability to fire away messages with a great keyboard..

They stayed very appealing in a lot of countries even after the iPhone arrived, so they could have built on that but they got complacent.. Its not that the iPhone is more appealing, its that it had more features, apps and other stuff that were appealing.

BlackBerry didn't lose the appealing element, they lost the apps element.. They're still appealing to anyone who appreciates good designed phones..

[Troy Tiscareno]

BB's phones were indeed originally picked up by corporations who had big fears of allowing mobile devices having access to corporate data - security was important for most BB buyers at that time. But by meeting (2001-era) corporate needs, BB built phones that started to have some mainstream appeal for individuals who valued email and messaging on the go. When BB started making cheaper phones that could be afforded by more people (who otherwise wouldn't have bought a smartphone), they became even more popular. The fact that the rich and powerful often carried them lent BB some additional cachet. But, now, these individual consumers weren't buying because of security - they weren't on BES so they didn't get most of BB's security anyway; they were buying because other phones of the day didn't do mobile email or messaging as well.

But then 2007 happened - the iPhone was announced, and that caused a sea change. Suddenly there were devices that didn't just to do email and messaging, but a full web browser, a good (for the time, and eventually damn good) camera, media consumption, gaming, and of course, eventually third-party apps and services that greatly extended the functionality beyond the basic included apps. Almost overnight, BBOS became extremely limited by comparison. The Model T was a great an popular car in its day, but they couldn't begin to compare to cars from the 30's and early 40s - the bar had been significantly raised. So it was with smartphones, which is why we consider the iPhone the beginning of "Smartphone v2.0".

Yes, BBOS continued to sell well for a few years in emerging markets, because "v2.0" smartphones were simply priced out of those markets at first, because BIS appealed to users in countries with only 2G data speeds, and because there were lots of cheap-but-good refurb BBOS phones sold into those markets to get devices into the hands of those who couldn't afford a new one. But those folks weren't buying for security either - they were buying because they were the best phones they could afford at the time. That market was going to be disrupted eventually, and of course, now it has been.

So, BB loses out on the "low end" - individuals and emerging markets, but they've also lost most of the "high end" too - as iPhone and Android security has improved, and MDM/EMM software is able to add further security, most companies have agreed that this is plenty good enough for security and the availability of apps on those platforms makes passing on BB a slam dunk. BB has to fight for an ever-shrinking slice of the pie: those who find iPhone/Android security insufficient. Ironically, BB themselves are now helping to further reduce that slice of the pie by helping to further secure Android...

[filanto]

This is exactly right - the issue is that there is only a tiny niche of people who "need" this level of security enough to pay extra for it. There is a perception here on CB from some people that there is a sizable market of people who are willing to pay for special, enhanced-security phones, but both BB's sales and BlackPhones sales show that that's not true - there's only a small number of people in this category - in the thousands, not hundreds of thousands, much less millions - per quarter.

So true. I know many hyper paranoid anti government types who have cheap droids and never thought of BlackBerry as an option. They won't even consider BES Cloud because it costs money. All the while they play Pokemon Go

Posted via CB10

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

But then 2007 happened - the iPhone was announced, and that caused a sea change. Suddenly there were devices that didn't just to do email and messaging, but a full web browser, a good (for the time, and eventually damn good) camera, media consumption, gaming, and of course, eventually third-party apps and services that greatly extended the functionality beyond the basic included apps. Almost overnight, BBOS became extremely limited by comparison. The Model T was a great an popular car in its day, but they couldn't begin to compare to cars from the 30's and early 40s - the bar had been significantly raised. So it was with smartphones, which is why we consider the iPhone the beginning of "Smartphone v2.0".
.

And the painful thing is those of us that were here in 2007, 2008, 2009... wondering when BlackBerry would realize that they were falling behind.

We were all excited and happy in 2010 when they announced the purchase of QNX and plans for a new platform... First rumors were we would see in in the fall of 2011, then spring of 2012, the fall of 2012 as the chips weren't going to be ready... when in fact it was BB10 that wasn't ready. Even when they finally released it in 2013, it wasn't ready... yet we hoped.

If it had been 2007 -2009... they would have had time to mature their OS and build their ecosystem right alongside iOS and Android. But it was 2013 and users expected so much from their smartphones.... so much that BlackBerry could not deliver.

Today I think many of those customers with high security concerns are also interested in a stable platform (technically and finically) that is capable of running standard and custom apps that they too have found productive.

[anon(9742832)]

So, sorry guys if this has been posted already (and if this one is posted in wrong section, Moderators, please feel free to move it to appropriate on).

Basically, you all remember the BLACKPHONE - one, which was super duper secure and basically, had to kill Blackberry?

Nuo ?nipin?jimo apsaugotas i?manusis: pardavimai priblo?k? - DELFI Mokslas - although link is in Lithuanian - I believe you can use the google translate.

however, the main message is:
Although manufacturer has claimed that they got pre-order of 250.000 Phones from operators BigOn, Kumion and America Movil, but when phones were manufactured, BigOn and Kumion cancelled their orders, and America Movil purchased only 6.000 (Six thousand) instead of 100.000 they have initially indicated.

I just wonder, are there any other figures from Black Phone which would indicate the number of total sold devices??

I think the bigger point in all of this is there is no such thing as a "secure droid". The black phone was secure because it segregated parts of the OS from each other, on the Priv it tells you hey this APP is going after info, but in the end if you want the APP you allow the security breach. The real funny part to this is you can can an APK modifier that will stop the data mining on any phone, for a few bucks. For the Corporate user I have seen the commercial version that blocks certain APPS period. So all of this secure phone stuff is becoming obsolete.

Woof!

[BB-JAM215]

I think the bigger point in all of this is there is no such thing as a "secure droid". The black phone was secure because it segregated parts of the OS from each other, ...

Apple does something similar with IOS. Each app has its own siloed space for its own files and can't access the file space used by other apps. There is also no way to browse the IOS file structure except within each app. Of course copies of documents can be passed between apps.

[Troy Tiscareno]

I think the bigger point in all of this is there is no such thing as a "secure droid". <snip> on the Priv it tells you hey this APP is going after info, but in the end if you want the APP you allow the security breach.

You're talking about app permissions (only one of many, many kinds of "security.") For those on Marshmallow (Android v6.x), you have control over individual app permissions (rooted users have had access since 4.3), and lots of (non-carrier) Privs are on MM. So are most flagship and second-level Android phones sold over the last 2 years. As time goes on, this will be an issue for fewer and fewer people. iOS also has app permissions, and has had them for several iOS versions already.

The truth is that it's far easier for Apple and Google to improve the security of their OSs than it is for BB to build a competing ecosystem...

[Old_Mil]

Having used a black phone, my conclusion was that the software was quite good - it still is the only Android Handset I know of that let's you turn off app permissions like BB10. This results in greater privacy and battery life.

Where it falls short is the hardware...although the phone is speedy enough, has enough storage, and accepts a 200gb sdxc card the audio quality is pretty bad. The speakerphone is almost unusable because the other party can hear the echo of their own voice.

So after a tour of the iOS and Droid world I am back to the Z30 with a Q10 and Lumia 950 in the bullpen.

Posted via CB10

[BB-JAM215]

Having used a black phone, my conclusion was that the software was quite good - it still is the only Android Handset I know of that let's you turn off app permissions like BB10.

My understanding is that this can now be done on any device running Android Marshmellow including the BlackBerry Priv.

[Superdupont 2_0]

I wonder if BlackBerry would buy Silent Circle to complete their portfolio, price should be interesting now.

[conite]

I wonder if BlackBerry would buy Silent Circle to complete their portfolio, price should be interesting now.

Why bother? Priv with MM and PIN protected boot cycle (new features incorporated after initial launch) needs nothing from Silent Circle.

[anon(9742832)]

You're talking about app permissions (only one of many, many kinds of "security.") For those on Marshmallow (Android v6.x), you have control over individual app permissions (rooted users have had access since 4.3), and lots of (non-carrier) Privs are on MM. So are most flagship and second-level Android phones sold over the last 2 years. As time goes on, this will be an issue for fewer and fewer people. iOS also has app permissions, and has had them for several iOS versions already.

The truth is that it's far easier for Apple and Google to improve the security of their OSs than it is for BB to build a competing ecosystem...

Yes and no, while APP permission is part of it, APPS data mine, and and APK tool can stop that by giving you access to tools you don't get normally. Also it would be much easier for Apple than Google. Apple is still as always a closed system. Google on the other hand is open, very similar to Windows. The other part to this is Google is just designed to capture all the info it can get, that is why the Black phone segregated two parts of the phone. In the end nothing is free, you will pay one way or another.

[anon(9742832)]

Why bother? Priv with MM and PIN protected boot cycle needs nothing from Silent Circle.

Correct, the built in weakness to any Droid phone is the openness of the OS. With MM the OS has tightened up, but has a long way to go........but it works and works well. In the end if you want real security just do not down load any APPS. Any phone at that point will be secure.

[kworr]

Afair there was nothing new about Black Phone because most of this features already were available in CyanogenMod and now they are slowly coming to Android. On the other hand relying on the new party that hasn't proved they claims is not what security centric people are doing. Black Phone was about claims, not about good ecosystem.

When you are swimming you need to move there more you move the faster you go. But if you are not moving fast enough you'll drown.

This actually is about BlackBerry too. Taking internal browser for example - it's updated rarely. While the other products on same engine like Safari and Chrome are very proactive about security. You can't beet Google just by claiming your product secure. But you can give it up and make place for other products like Firefox or Servo.

While Black Phone was mostly an Android copy they should be active on Android scene promoting their view on security, fixing bugs and proving new ways of making things. And they just failed to be hype.

Posted via CB10

[Superdupont 2_0]

Afaik, the user can setup multiple "spaces" on the BlackPhone which are totally separated, and you don't need any EMM/MDM for that.
For BlackBerry you always need a BES license and then you have only two spaces (work and private) maximum.

But I must admit, on a first glance most other services of Silent Circle seem to be rather redudant to the BlackBerry services...

[nohope4me]

Bbry isn't doing too hot either