04-21-14 03:43 PM
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  1. Edward in Toronto's Avatar
    It's still alive, it's going to released in November.
    04-21-14 04:17 AM
  2. anon1727506's Avatar
    how many thread like this are there damnn... people just let them do their thing. Yes, this is a HUGE rough patch
    Most "rough patches" you can see beyond.... They have been in free fall for about six quarters now, without hitting bottom and no indicator (unless you just believe) that is changing anytime soon. Some here seem to think that BlackBerry can find a niche and be profitable...

    Huawei, Xiaomi, Coolpad, ZTE, Gionee.... these guys are all outselling BlackBerry these days. Sure there is a market that wants BlackBerry secure devices. But BlackBerry is not a company that is stable enough for these markets to invest in. Because as things stand Chen's words have yet to bear any fruit or more importantly stop the downward fall of both hardware and service/software revenues.

    Maybe a strong and solid company could exist on 5 - 10 Million devices a year in sales. A strong company with a clear and decisive plan.... BlackBerry is not. Eight months ago, all you heard was how BES and BBM were the future of BlackBerry. Well here we are and BBM still hasn't reached 100K user and now we need to wait another six months for BES12, because that is what all these fence sitter are waiting on. Then it was Enterprise, Prosumer, Enterprise..... and yet now we are going back to BBOS and releasing a low end touch device (Z3) that is targeted at consumers in developing markets.... kinda hard to know what Chen's "plan" really is, other than try to keep doing EVERYTHING that they have been doing before he came on board.
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-21-14 08:18 AM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    YES!

    This should still be BlackBerry's focus. It should be done in a way that BlackBerry would not lose billions again. Just order fewer components even if the devices cost more. This is how you can be successful as a niche player.
    If they're going to be a low volume, niche player with higher component costs than Samsung and Apple, then don't they need customers willing to pay premium prices?

    It's been a few years since people were really willing to pay premium prices for BlackBerry products, outside of a very small band of diehards.

    People look at Porsche which at least survived as an independent niche automaker for longer than any of the other niche players, but they always had a customer base willing to pay an enormous premium for their cars.

    If BlackBerry made another tablet, for example, can they actually sell it at iPad prices? Or will it have to be a $200 budget model again competing with lower cost Android tablets?

    If they make a high end touchscreen phone again, can they command iPhone prices for it? Don't they have to in order to make a profit as a niche player?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    04-21-14 09:40 AM
  4. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The icons are scaled. It has nothing to do with resolution. You guess you see a difference? I don't think you even know what you are looking at and how to compare.
    I guess it must be an optical illusion then.

    BlackBerry Z30 Vs HTC One. Compare phones on Gadgetronica.

    "Higher the pixel density, more detailed and clear the display is. Texts and other content appear much sharper in high pixel density displays."

    Maybe I am guessing that I see a difference but the result is the same. I prefer the display on some other phones.
    04-21-14 10:10 AM
  5. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I guess it must be an optical illusion then.

    BlackBerry Z30 Vs HTC One. Compare phones on Gadgetronica.

    "Higher the pixel density, more detailed and clear the display is. Texts and other content appear much sharper in high pixel density displays."

    Maybe I am guessing that I see a difference but the result is the same. I prefer the display on some other phones.
    This to a point. Once you get more pixels than the eye can see, then there is no need going with higher PPI. It is called diminishing returns. Ever wonder why all the computers have 32 and 64 bit everything and only 24 bit colour video cards? Do you want 32 and 64 bit colour cards? Do you think you will get more colours and better pictures? I let you do some research and answer.
    04-21-14 10:26 AM
  6. lawguyman's Avatar
    If they're going to be a low volume, niche player with higher component costs than Samsung and Apple, then don't they need customers willing to pay premium prices?

    It's been a few years since people were really willing to pay premium prices for BlackBerry products, outside of a very small band of diehards.

    People look at Porsche which at least survived as an independent niche automaker for longer than any of the other niche players, but they always had a customer base willing to pay an enormous premium for their cars.

    If BlackBerry made another tablet, for example, can they actually sell it at iPad prices? Or will it have to be a $200 budget model again competing with lower cost Android tablets?

    If they make a high end touchscreen phone again, can they command iPhone prices for it? Don't they have to in order to make a profit as a niche player?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Up until now, BlackBerry has sold phones thinking it would move tens of millions of them. It entered into commitments with component suppliers to buy all of those parts. That was the real problem.

    Now, it is looking to make money off ten million a year. It will not have these same kinda of commitments with suppliers.

    It's not like there is zero demand. There is demand, just not as much as they company projected.



    Posted via CB10
    04-21-14 11:10 AM
  7. Bbnivende's Avatar
    This to a point. Once you get more pixels than the eye can see, then there is no need going with higher PPI. It is called diminishing returns. Ever wonder why all the computers have 32 and 64 bit everything and only 24 bit colour video cards? Do you want 32 and 64 bit colour cards? Do you think you will get more colours and better pictures? I let you do some research and answer.
    "But if you want (or need) to take advantage of that extra display sharpness and resolution, you can. If you study and stare at the image on the screen, move it closer, or move it around, you’ll be able to make out considerably more fine image detail because you are building an integrated visual image map in the brain. So, when you are looking at an image with finely detailed graphics and small text, most people with reasonably good vision will be able to make out and appreciate the extra sharpness and image detail if they take the time to do so."

    The Best Smartphone Display: It's Not Who You Think
    04-21-14 11:41 AM
  8. kbz1960's Avatar
    "But if you want (or need) to take advantage of that extra display sharpness and resolution, you can. If you study and stare at the image on the screen, move it closer, or move it around, you’ll be able to make out considerably more fine image detail because you are building an integrated visual image map in the brain. So, when you are looking at an image with finely detailed graphics and small text, most people with reasonably good vision will be able to make out and appreciate the extra sharpness and image detail if they take the time to do so."

    The Best Smartphone Display: It's Not Who You Think
    I guess this all matters if you're looking for it? Otherwise??????? I mean unless it's really jagged and horrible? I've never looked at a pic on any phone and thought, that's terrible cause it isn't HD or several million PPI. I can see pixels. I do understand that stats do sell even if they mean nothing in the real world.
    Bluenoser63 likes this.
    04-21-14 12:20 PM
  9. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    "But if you want (or need) to take advantage of that extra display sharpness and resolution, you can. If you study and stare at the image on the screen, move it closer, or move it around, you’ll be able to make out considerably more fine image detail because you are building an integrated visual image map in the brain. So, when you are looking at an image with finely detailed graphics and small text, most people with reasonably good vision will be able to make out and appreciate the extra sharpness and image detail if they take the time to do so."

    The Best Smartphone Display: It's Not Who You Think
    Didn't read your own article.

    Apple started a major revolution in display marketing by introducing their “Retina Display” with 326 Pixels Per Inch (PPI) on the iPhone 4 in 2010. While not equivalent to the resolution of the human retina, people with 20/20 Vision cannot resolve the individual pixels when the display is held at normal viewing distances of 10.5 inches or more. This started a PPI and Mega Pixel war similar to what happened with smartphone digital cameras, which is still an ongoing wild goose chase now into the stratosphere. Hopefully the same thing won’t happen with mobile displays. The real question is how high do we need to go before reaching a practical visual PPI limit?
    The article was written by Dr. Raymond Soneira is President of DisplayMate Technologies Corporation of Amherst, New Hampshire. He is most often used when people like yourself want to try and prove that a phone needs really high ppi. His numbers have been proven wrong by later research. So not a good example to use.
    04-21-14 12:44 PM
  10. lawguyman's Avatar
    I guess this all matters if you're looking for it? Otherwise??????? I mean unless it's really jagged and horrible? I've never looked at a pic on any phone and thought, that's terrible cause it isn't HD or several million PPI. I can see pixels. I do understand that stats do sell even if they mean nothing in the real world.
    The article claims that differences can be noticeable with 1080p at a viewing distance of 10 inches.

    First, who uses their phone from 10 inches away? Try more like 18 inches. 10 inches is uncomfortable, at least for me.

    Second, the claim is that differences can be seen, not that they are obvious. No one uses their phone like that. So, no differences will be noticeable.

    BlackBerry should have a 1080p screen but it is only for marketing. It is not necessary.



    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 likes this.
    04-21-14 12:50 PM
  11. Septembersrain's Avatar
    The article claims that differences can be noticeable with 1080p at a viewing distance of 10 inches.

    First, who uses their phone from 10 inches away? Try more like 18 inches. 10 inches is uncomfortable, at least for me.

    Second, the claim is that differences can be seen, not that they are obvious. No one uses their phone like that. So, no differences will be noticeable.

    BlackBerry should have a 1080p screen but it is only for marketing. It is not necessary.



    Posted via CB10
    I feel that if they made it 1080, you'd have to make a massive battery. Load it with RAM and still suffer through possible screen burn. I don't find it necessary either.

    Take the iPhone 5s for example, it's got a PPI of 326. If you put it next to a 446 PPI device, you'd be surprised how subtle the difference is. I'm starting to think quality over quantity?


    Sent from the one in beautiful blue using Tapatalk.
    04-21-14 01:17 PM
  12. JeepBB's Avatar
    First, who uses their phone from 10 inches away? Try more like 18 inches. 10 inches is uncomfortable, at least for me.
    Heh, I reckon comfortable viewing at 18 inches places you at a certain age. Many people seem to realise that they need glasses only when their arms become too short to hold the book at a readable distance!

    Like many people who are short-sighted, I often read and use phones and tablets with my glasses perched on my head. Comfortable reading distance for me is nearer six inches than ten.

    I don't have super-vision (I wish that I did!), but like most people with short-sight I can focus on and see absolutely tiny writing. I won't claim that I can see the pixels, but I often notice that some displays appear sharper than others at those kinds of distance.
    04-21-14 01:29 PM
  13. anon1727506's Avatar
    Up until now, BlackBerry has sold phones thinking it would move tens of millions of them. It entered into commitments with component suppliers to buy all of those parts. That was the real problem.

    Now, it is looking to make money off ten million a year. It will not have these same kinda of commitments with suppliers.

    It's not like there is zero demand. There is demand, just not as much as they company projected.
    There is no dubt there is demand and a niche to fill.

    The problem is can companies trust BlackBerry to be there, is the company stable enough to be there six months or twenty months from now? That really isn't a easy question to answer based on their current financials.

    Is that size company self substantiating? And the answer is NO. BlackBerry is having problems with suppliers, with distribution channels, with developers.... the niche is just so small that very few want to deal with BlackBerry and help them. The big issue is no one knows just how small this niche is.... if sales continue as they have been for another year of two. That niche is most likely only 10 million users (not sure how many of the 5 million devices sold are to unique BB customers).

    If they could stabilize the company, if they can get official access to Android and have all apps work, if they can sale devices at a profit (either on hardware alone or in conjunction with BES or some other Services). Then maybe they could settle down in a niche and they work up from there..

    This trying to still do BIS phones, and low end developing market phones and now "classic" BlackBerry's... not sure what "Niche" they are going after. Because I'm not sure the anyone that has owned a BlackBerry in the past, or let's return to our roots niches are going to work out too well for them.
    04-21-14 01:33 PM
  14. kbz1960's Avatar
    There is no dubt there is demand and a niche to fill.

    The problem is can companies trust BlackBerry to be there, is the company stable enough to be there six months or twenty months from now? That really isn't a easy question to answer based on their current financials.

    Is that size company self substantiating? And the answer is NO. BlackBerry is having problems with suppliers, with distribution channels, with developers.... the niche is just so small that very few want to deal with BlackBerry and help them. The big issue is no one knows just how small this niche is.... if sales continue as they have been for another year of two. That niche is most likely only 10 million users (not sure how many of the 5 million devices sold are to unique BB customers).

    If they could stabilize the company, if they can get official access to Android and have all apps work, if they can sale devices at a profit (either on hardware alone or in conjunction with BES or some other Services). Then maybe they could settle down in a niche and they work up from there..

    This trying to still do BIS phones, and low end developing market phones and now "classic" BlackBerry's... not sure what "Niche" they are going after. Because I'm not sure the anyone that has owned a BlackBerry in the past, or let's return to our roots niches are going to work out too well for them.

    Where I work just did away with BES and you can't even BYOB as bring your own blackberry. Today I heard one of the main reasons was.......... they don't know if blackberry will be around in 6 months. I'm not sure what Chen could tell them to instill confidence but there you have it. It's a huge health insurance corporation.
    04-21-14 01:46 PM
  15. lawguyman's Avatar
    Heh, I reckon comfortable viewing at 18 inches places you at a certain age. Many people seem to realise that they need glasses only when their arms become too short to hold the book at a readable distance!

    Like many people who are short-sighted, I often read and use phones and tablets with my glasses perched on my head. Comfortable reading distance for me is nearer six inches than ten.

    I don't have super-vision (I wish that I did!), but like most people with short-sight I can focus on and see absolutely tiny writing. I won't claim that I can see the pixels, but I often notice that some displays appear sharper than others at those kinds of distance.
    My daughter is 11. I'll see where she holds the phone. When I put the phone 10 inches in front of my face, it looks ridiculous.

    Posted via CB10
    Bluenoser63 likes this.
    04-21-14 02:29 PM
  16. lawguyman's Avatar
    There is no dubt there is demand and a niche to fill.

    The problem is can companies trust BlackBerry to be there, is the company stable enough to be there six months or twenty months from now? That really isn't a easy question to answer based on their current financials.

    Is that size company self substantiating? And the answer is NO. BlackBerry is having problems with suppliers, with distribution channels, with developers.... the niche is just so small that very few want to deal with BlackBerry and help them. The big issue is no one knows just how small this niche is.... if sales continue as they have been for another year of two. That niche is most likely only 10 million users (not sure how many of the 5 million devices sold are to unique BB customers).

    If they could stabilize the company, if they can get official access to Android and have all apps work, if they can sale devices at a profit (either on hardware alone or in conjunction with BES or some other Services). Then maybe they could settle down in a niche and they work up from there..

    This trying to still do BIS phones, and low end developing market phones and now "classic" BlackBerry's... not sure what "Niche" they are going after. Because I'm not sure the anyone that has owned a BlackBerry in the past, or let's return to our roots niches are going to work out too well for them.
    This is a hard time to be a fan of this company because Chen cannot execute until late this year when he has BES12 and maybe some new devices. Until then, he can at least stop the bleeding. If he does that, it will be a real accomplishment. Jakarta may be a hit too. Let's hope so.

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-14 02:33 PM
  17. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    My daughter is 11. I'll see where she holds the phone. When I put the phone 10 inches in front of my face, it looks ridiculous.

    Posted via CB10
    Yup. I have discussions with people who say that they can see pixels on the Z30. When I ask them how close they hold it to their eye, they say normal distance. I ask how far and they say 8 inches. I don't anyone who uses their phone that close to look at the screen. PPI all has to do with viewing distance and the human eye. The Z30 has better PPI than the HD big screen that they have in their entertainment room. They must hate their TV with a passion then.
    04-21-14 02:41 PM
  18. JeepBB's Avatar
    My daughter is 11. I'll see where she holds the phone. When I put the phone 10 inches in front of my face, it looks ridiculous.

    Posted via CB10

    it's not how ridiculous it may appear, its whether its in comfortable focus.

    For young people with normal eyesight, that's around 10".

    As an aside, my father used to get one of us kids to hold the newspaper at the opposite side ofthe dining table so he could read it. He was firm in his belief that he had 20:20 vision lol


    JBB
    kbz1960 and app_Developer like this.
    04-21-14 03:17 PM
  19. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Didn't read your own article.



    The article was written by Dr. Raymond Soneira is President of DisplayMate Technologies Corporation of Amherst, New Hampshire. He is most often used when people like yourself want to try and prove that a phone needs really high ppi. His numbers have been proven wrong by later research. So not a good example to use.
    I am not saying that at all. All I am saying is that other 5 inch phones that I have tried display text and blogs etc in a clearer sharper fashion to my eye. It is not a bad phone at all - if it were cheaper I would be interested.
    04-21-14 03:43 PM
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