04-21-14 03:43 PM
144 12345 ...
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  1. lawguyman's Avatar
    You have to create the products for the people who want them. There is a large group of people (some very vocal on this site) who want the tool belt. There are a lot of 9900 users that I know that don't want to upgrade to the Q10 because they want it. You have to know your users and the market. Right now we only know that there will be the "Classic" that has the belt. It might be mocked by those who don't want it, but it will be greeted warmly by those who want it.
    I think it is a niche group of people, not a large group of people. BlackBerry can sell to them because no one else is even trying to win their business. BlackBerry is going after the low lying fruit. It is like it is scared to compete.

    Posted via CB10
    Shadowyugi and WorkStation 0 like this.
    04-19-14 10:02 AM
  2. ajst222's Avatar
    I agree completely. There are no pixels visible on the Z30. 1080p or higher is just for marketing.

    Posted via CB10
    I disagree there. I can 100% notice the difference
    04-19-14 10:03 AM
  3. lawguyman's Avatar
    Aluminum is high end IMO. More high end than plastic.
    Above ground pools are made out of aluminum. It is a cheap light weight metal. High quality plastics feel better in the hand than aluminum, but that is just my opinion.

    Posted via CB10
    04-19-14 10:05 AM
  4. ajst222's Avatar
    You have to create the products for the people who want them. There is a large group of people (some very vocal on this site) who want the tool belt. There are a lot of 9900 users that I know that don't want to upgrade to the Q10 because they want it. You have to know your users and the market. Right now we only know that there will be the "Classic" that has the belt. It might be mocked by those who don't want it, but it will be greeted warmly by those who want it.
    Isn't that the case with everything...that's not much of an argument. But even so, the group of people that want it isn't a very large group. You could argue that people don't want BB10 either, but at least that theoretically has a chance at competing
    04-19-14 10:06 AM
  5. ajst222's Avatar
    Above ground pools are made out of aluminum. It is a cheap light weight metal. High quality plastics feel better in the hand than aluminum, but that is just my opinion.

    Posted via CB10
    But we're talking about phones. What looks or feels better: The HTC One or the BlackBerry Z10? Chose those 2 because they have very similar designs but with completely different materials. I think it's the HTC One hands down and I'm sure most people would agree.
    Drew808 and MozThaGreat like this.
    04-19-14 10:07 AM
  6. ajst222's Avatar
    I think it is a niche group of people, not a large group of people. BlackBerry can sell to them because no one else is even trying to win their business. BlackBerry is going after the low lying fruit. It is like it is scared to compete.

    Posted via CB10
    This is a fantastic way of putting it...afraid to compete
    04-19-14 10:08 AM
  7. Phi Nguyen's Avatar
    Just go to another platform already. Clearly you're not happy so move on. Case closed.

    Want to know if they're lying to you? Join our channel at C002EFE5D to learn how to become a human lie-detector!
    Already did if you read the bottom of my post
    S4 and loving the amazing candid shots I took of my gf without playing around or waiting for good weather

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    04-19-14 10:08 AM
  8. kbz1960's Avatar
    I didn't really want to get involved any further but here goes: these are good points but one I think is important to look at is that the Z3 (BlackBerry's absolute LOWEST end phone) needs 1.5 GB of RAM. Windows Phone and Android both run on 512MB. Not sure how smooth Android is but Windows Phone is very smooth. Not only that, but I'm friends with a developer and he has used a Z3 and says that it is laggy and he is disappointed.

    About the Z30, I really can't see how people argue that the screen is good. Pixels are noticeable. When I went to check it out when I was in the store, EVEN MY GRANDFATHER didn't like the screen. His main complaint was that it was dark (on full brightness) but also said it didn't look as crisp. He obviously doesn't know the technical stuff, but it's the pixels. They are definitely noticeable. If you seriously can't see the difference between the Z30 screen and say the GSIV screen, then get your eyes checked.
    While I don't have a GSIV to check against I find the screen looks good to me, don't really notice pixels unless it's an app that is formatted for the 10's screen and not the 30's and it's plenty bright unless in direct sun light.
    Bluenoser63 likes this.
    04-19-14 10:09 AM
  9. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    So you're saying BlackBerry should tell users that they shouldn't have decent performance on their lower end devices? That'll go over well.

    As far as the PPI number, that's been highly debated. Research shows (from maybe 2 years ago, just before the launch of the iPhone 5 if I remember) that it should be like 450PPI because that's that the eye can't detect from 12" away. The 300 number, from some research and from my own personal experiences, is wrong.
    I think I just said that a 1GB BB10 device gives more than decent performance. So 1.5 and 2GB is more than enough. I am very pleased with the performance on the Z10, Q10 and Z30. No complaints here.

    You quote one researcher who is being used by tech heads. He was wrong and others have pointed that out. And if you are seeing pixels, you are either lying, holding it too close or are an eagle who can type.

    Tech's New Most Meaningless Spec: PPI
    Dr. Soneira’s claims are based upon a retinal calculation of .5 arcminutes which to my reading of the literature is too low. According to a relatively recent, but authoritative study of photoreceptor density in the human retina (Curcio, C.A., K.R. Sloan, R.E. Kalina and A.E. Hendrickson 1990 Human photoreceptor topography. J. Comp. Neurol. 292:497-523.), peak cone density in the human averages 199,000 cones/mm2 with a range of 100,000 to 324,000. Dr. Curcio et. al. calculated 77 cycles/degree or .78 arcminutes/cycle of *retinal* resolution. However, this does not take into account the optics of the system which degrade image quality somewhat giving a commonly accepted resolution of 1 arcminute/cycle. So, if a normal human eye can discriminate two points separated by 1 arcminute/cycle at a distance of a foot, we should be able to discriminate two points 89 micrometers apart which would work out to about 287 pixels per inch. Since the iPhone 4G display is comfortably higher than that measure at 326 pixels per inch, I’d find Apple’s claims stand up to what the human eye can perceive.
    Newer research points out that the number the researcher was using was too low and even the higher number is with ideal human vision which few people have.
    04-19-14 10:10 AM
  10. early2bed's Avatar
    The new One is too long. Plus, aluminum is not high end. I don't know why that device gets so much praise.
    If you're that picky about the hardware then you're going to have to give up the company love and go platform agnostic. That's the only way you are going to be able to find the shape and material combination that you want. Blackberry sure isn't going to be making any of these things any time soon.
    04-19-14 10:11 AM
  11. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I think it is a niche group of people, not a large group of people. BlackBerry can sell to them because no one else is even trying to win their business. BlackBerry is going after the low lying fruit. It is like it is scared to compete.

    Posted via CB10
    Or smart not to compete and going after those markets it can sell. You don't have to be massive to sell products and make money. That is all the Blackberry needs to do right now.
    04-19-14 10:12 AM
  12. ajst222's Avatar
    While I don't have a GSIV to check against I find the screen looks good to me, don't really notice pixels unless it's an app that is formatted for the 10's screen and not the 30's and it's plenty bright unless in direct sun light.
    I considered the Z30 after the other negatives, but the screen is what really did (or should I say "didn't") do it for me because I knew I would have to look at it every day.

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    mjdimer likes this.
    04-19-14 10:13 AM
  13. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    But we're talking about phones. What looks or feels better: The HTC One or the BlackBerry Z10? Chose those 2 because they have very similar designs but with completely different materials. I think it's the HTC One hands down and I'm sure most people would agree.
    Not me. I like the Z10 feel better.
    04-19-14 10:14 AM
  14. ajst222's Avatar
    Not me. I like the Z10 feel better.
    Of course you do

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    fbloise and kevinnugent like this.
    04-19-14 10:14 AM
  15. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Of course you do

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    And I love the feel of the Z30 even more.
    04-19-14 10:17 AM
  16. ajst222's Avatar
    I think I just said that a 1GB BB10 device gives more than decent performance. So 1.5 and 2GB is more than enough. I am very pleased with the performance on the Z10, Q10 and Z30. No complaints here.

    You quote one researcher who is being used by tech heads. He was wrong and others have pointed that out. And if you are seeing pixels, you are either lying, holding it too close or are an eagle who can type.

    Tech's New Most Meaningless Spec: PPI
    It's still debated though. If you can't notice a difference, then fine. But I'm telling you that I can. But with the RAM thing I'm pointing out that BB10 isn't as efficient as other OS's. It needs more RAM. When you lower it to lower the cost, then you'll get a less than adequate low end device. I'm going with what my dev friend said when he used a Z3

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    04-19-14 10:19 AM
  17. ajst222's Avatar
    And I love the feel of the Z30 even more.
    I like the Z30 more (build wise) than the Z30 too. It's not as cheap feeling. The Z10 isn't bad, but it doesn't feel high end

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    04-19-14 10:20 AM
  18. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    It's still debated though. If you can't notice a difference, then fine. But I'm telling you that I can. But with the RAM thing I'm pointing out that BB10 isn't as efficient as other OS's. It needs more RAM. When you lower it to lower the cost, then you'll get a less than adequate low end device. I'm going with what my dev friend said when he used a Z3

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    It is only debatable when you don't want to deal with the science involved. BB10 uses RAM differently than other OS's. Other OS's when switching apps moves that app into flash memory and takes out of RAM. And then does the reverse when going back to the app. The app isn't still running. BB10 apps do. It is a different process and is more efficient depending on what you want to do. If you take the time to understand the facts and issues, you won't make blanket statements.
    04-19-14 10:27 AM
  19. kbz1960's Avatar
    I considered the Z30 after the other negatives, but the screen is what really did (or should I say "didn't") do it for me because I knew I would have to look at it every day.

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    I agree some have better eye sight than others and that BBRY really needs to have better specs to win over possible new users but for me the screen is fine. But I don't buy a phone based on the screen anyway. Well if the screen totally sucked then I wouldn't be interested.
    04-19-14 10:29 AM
  20. lawguyman's Avatar
    But we're talking about phones. What looks or feels better: The HTC One or the BlackBerry Z10? Chose those 2 because they have very similar designs but with completely different materials. I think it's the HTC One hands down and I'm sure most people would agree.
    The z10 was always supposed to be a midrange phone, IMO. It didn't even get the glass weave back.

    Posted via CB10
    04-19-14 10:30 AM
  21. ajst222's Avatar
    It is only debatable when you don't want to deal with the science involved. BB10 uses RAM differently than other OS's. Other OS's when switching apps moves that app into flash memory and takes out of RAM. And then does the reverse when going back to the app. The app isn't still running. BB10 apps do. It is a different process and is more efficient depending on what you want to do. If you take the time to understand the facts and issues, you won't make blanket statements.
    Yes. I'm not arguing that. Never will. In fact, you're actually helping prove MY point here. I'm saying that BB10 is a resource hog and won't/doesn't make for a decent low end phone. With a lower end phone, as I said, to bring down the costs, you're going to have to use lesser specs which include a reduction of RAM.
    04-19-14 10:33 AM
  22. ajst222's Avatar
    The z10 was always supposed to be a midrange phone, IMO. It didn't even get the glass weave back.

    Posted via CB10
    It was launched as a high end phone, even though the internals might not have fully suggested it.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    04-19-14 10:34 AM
  23. lawguyman's Avatar
    If you're that picky about the hardware then you're going to have to give up the company love and go platform agnostic. That's the only way you are going to be able to find the shape and material combination that you want. Blackberry sure isn't going to be making any of these things any time soon.
    Software is more important than hardware, at least to me. Unfortunately for me, I like BB10 better than iOS and Android. BB10 feels like a real OS and the others just feel like app launchers.

    Posted via CB10
    Bluenoser63 likes this.
    04-19-14 10:35 AM
  24. lnichols's Avatar
    You have to create the products for the people who want them. There is a large group of people (some very vocal on this site) who want the tool belt. There are a lot of 9900 users that I know that don't want to upgrade to the Q10 because they want it. You have to know your users and the market. Right now we only know that there will be the "Classic" that has the belt. It might be mocked by those who don't want it, but it will be greeted warmly by those who want it.
    I heard that the Q10 would be greated warmly because of the PKB. Didn't happen. Now it is the belt because these people can't figure out how to use the simplistic gestures. I predict the classic won't sell, and that small, vocal group will be on here saying BB10 needs to be skinned like like BBOS, and/or no BIS, then it will be something else..... they don't want change and won't be happy without a new OS that works just like BBOS, which won't sell well either.

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960, Drew808 and JeepBB like this.
    04-19-14 10:35 AM
  25. lawguyman's Avatar
    It was launched as a high end phone, even though the internals might not have fully suggested it.
    I think it was designed to be cheap to build. If it had been popular, the price would have come down very quickly in order to be sold in large volumes.

    Posted via CB10
    04-19-14 10:37 AM
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