[yessuz]

Was it a Saab or a re-skinned caddy?

The company didn't go under for **** 's and giggles.

Nope. it was based on Vectra (GM) platform. But that's were all similarities ended.
it was really reliable car, extremely good runner (had 120k miles on clock). so your remarks are not understandable to me.

that's the thing. company used to sell good product. but - **** happens.

[yessuz]

Attachment 240149

I don't know how reliable Saab was as a brand, but I do know a wheel fell off my wife's 2003 9-5. You read that right; a wheel fell off. She didn't hit a pothole, she wasn't in a collision, and the car was regularly maintained. And yet, a wheel fell off.

(Sorry about the rotated photo, not sure how to fix.)

so maybe someone un-tightened the bolts?! LOL.
you understand, that this is not the manufacturers' fault that bolts are not tightened?> maybe this was done during the last service?!

as I said, my 2005 Saab 9-3 was extremely reliable with 120+k miles on the clock. Now the car is sold, and new owner is driving it without any probs.
I could start that at -27 C (the temperature all Americans were whining two weeks ago, lol) without ANY problems

[Wiki Cydia]

so maybe someone un-tightened the bolts?! LOL.
you understand, that this is not the manufacturers' fault that bolts are not tightened?> maybe this was done during the last service?!

The bolts were broken; they didn't just come off.

[Karan Mohal]

Is there somewhere in the this tread a post that actually says this?

Are you serious? That sentiment has been expressed about a hundred times per thread, did you read any of this thread?

[anon(3993749)]

You can't be taken seriously.

What's the point about features and sales if nobody buys it.

What's the point? I don't buy a product because it's validated by other people. I buy it because I consider it superior to other products. So discussing features is useful, because that's what normal people base their buying decisions on. Others, like you, buy the product that sells better.

[GadgetTravel]

"no one buys BBs and their market share keeps dropping every quarter since BB10 came out because they're the best and everyone is too stupid to figure it out".

Well, I guess I must be nobody then because I bought one. As for people being stupid, I would suggest that they are subject to marketing and PR, two areas in which BlackBerry could use a lot of help. Technologically, BlackBerry is way ahead at this point. Most people don't see this because they haven't tried it and believe the hogwash the media has been spewing for a couple of years now. There's a big difference between stupidity and ignorance.

Back to the subject at hand...

I recently had an experience in which I asked a team member to record a meeting and send the recording and a PowerPoint deck to other employees who were engaged in other activities and unable to attend. Silly me, I thought this person had a smartphone since they're so proud of their iPhone 5S.

Lo and behold, we had to wait until the person got back to their desk hours later to get the slides, and we never did get the recording. I would have been able to send both instantly from my Z10 the minute the meeting ended.

This is not a one-off. There have been many times in which productivity is hampered because people are using children's toys as their work phones. IPhone users are the worst in this regard. They don't even respond quickly to emails.

I am now officially lobbying at the C level to issue BB10 devices, at least to VPs and directors. I believe that any company whose employees are on the go would be wise to make the switch.

The world has moved on. To say they are toys makes it impossible to take you seriously. It simply isn't true. There is a vast amount I do with an iPhone that I found I couldn't do well with my Q10. Hence its retirement at a young age.

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

[Wiki Cydia]

Are you serious? That sentiment has been expressed about a hundred times per thread, did you read any of this thread?

If that's true then you should have no problem finding one instance in this thread. Just one.

[Karan Mohal]

I'm sure you can because their cheap.
Are you comparing that to blackberry devices?
Are you calling blackberry devices cheap?
Are you advocating for blackberry to sell bb10 in dollar stores?

Because that was the discussion quality, sales and blackberry 10.

Are these serious questions?

[sinsin07]

Are you serious? That sentiment has been expressed about a hundred times per thread, did you read any of this thread?

Don't deflect. Find in this thread.

[Wiki Cydia]

What's the point? I don't buy a product because it's validated by other people. I buy it because I consider it superior to other products. So discussing features is useful, because that's what normal people base their buying decisions on. Others, like you, buy the product that sells better.

Your problem is that you assume that while you pick products because they're superior, people that don't agree with you (and thus make different choices) are making choices for different reasons. Certainly some of them are, but to act as though the question of which device is superior has a single answer for all people is an incredibly lazy position to take.

[yessuz]

The bolts were broken; they didn't just come off.

so it is Bolt quality. Talk with the service station! ffs. car is 11 years old now. I would say, the bolts were replaced like twice on this car

[anon(3993749)]

Your problem is that you assume that while you pick products because they're superior, people that don't agree with you (and thus make different choices) are making choices for different reasons. Certainly some of them are, but to act as though the question of which device is superior has a single answer for all people is an incredibly lazy position to take.

I never said anything like that. I'm only asking you and others on this thread to leave sales out of the discussion. They are not relevant, they prove absolutely nothing when it comes to the efficiency or the quality of a product.

I can give you countless examples of superior products that failed to conquer the masses. It happens every single day in any industry.

[anon(3993749)]

Swing-and-a-miss. Say what you want about McDonalds, but there are people out there that genuinely like it. If there weren't, it never would be able to boast "billions and billions served."

It's actually a very good example. I don't think any of us can deny McDonalds' success. But quality-wise, their food is cr@p and everybody knows it. It's unhealthy and everything tastes exactly the same.

I'm not saying Apple is the McDonalds of the smartphone industry, I'm just pointing out that sales and success don't say anything about the quality of a product. There's no direct correlation.

[Karan Mohal]

Swing-and-a-miss. Say what you want about McDonalds, but there are people out there that genuinely like it. If there weren't, it never would be able to boast "billions and billions served."

You cant seem to keep your arguments / points straight.

You stated:
"But to say that the success of a product says "nothing" about its quality is the silliest thing you've ever written on this forum, which is no small feat."

sleepngbear replied:
Mcdonalds

to which you replied:

"Swing-and-a-miss. Say what you want about McDonalds, but there are people out there that genuinely like it. If there weren't, it never would be able to boast "billions and billions served."

Point being no one was talking about who "liked" what. Obviously people like Apple and McDonalds, noone is forcing anyone to eat at McDonalds or buy Apple phones... The statement was made that quality does not equate to sales (or vice versa). Then a very good example (or more than one) was given.

Im not going to go through 8 pages of this thread, or any others, to find you examples of times where people have clearly and illogically made the connection between high sales and quality or 'superior' products. Go look yourself if it is that important to you.

While its an exaggeration to say quality has 'nothing' to do with sales. Its pretty obvious which point was being made here. Well, it was obvious to me anyways. But since its confusing you, let me paraphrase:

The following is a fallacy:
Phone X outsells phone Y
therefore Phone X is better than phone Y

[sleepngbear]

Swing-and-a-miss. Say what you want about McDonalds, but there are people out there that genuinely like it. If there weren't, it never would be able to boast "billions and billions served."

Thank you for making my point for me. Sure there are billions of people buying McDonalds burgers; but I challenge anybody to prove to me that the quality of that food has any bearing whatsoever on the number of sales. It's garbage that tastes good and is cheap and convenient. Not saying that's the case with iPhone (although it does very closely parallel my personal opinion of Android); just saying that sales does not equate to quality, which is the argument I was countering when I brought it up.

[Wiki Cydia]

Thank you for making my point for me. Sure there are billions of people buying McDonalds burgers; but I challenge anybody to prove to me that the quality of that food has any bearing whatsoever on the number of sales. It's garbage that tastes good and is cheap and convenient. Not saying that's the case with iPhone (although it does very closely parallel my personal opinion of Android); just saying that sales does not equate to quality, which is the argument I was countering when I brought it up.

By all means, you're welcome to have that opinion of McDonalds' food. My point is that though you don't like it, others disagree. Have whatever opinion you want, but don't try to pass of that opinion as fact.

[yessuz]

By all means, you're welcome to have that opinion of McDonalds' food. My point is that though you don't like it, others disagree. Have whatever opinion you want, but don't try to pass of that opinion as fact.

is there any correlation between LIKE and QUALITY?

i mean, if I'll make the top quality dump - you, most probably, will not like it?

or you really want to prove that McDonalds burgers are top quality ones?!

[FFR]

I never said anything like that. I'm only asking you and others on this thread to leave sales out of the discussion. They are not relevant, they prove absolutely nothing when it comes to the efficiency or the quality of a product.

I can give you countless examples of superior products that failed to conquer the masses. It happens every single day in any industry.

Sales is very relevant. You keep asking for examples outside the smartphone industry, where any correlation is moot.

Sales dictate the mobile market, as much as you want to turn a blind eye to further your argument, it simply cannot be done.

[Wiki Cydia]

You cant seem to keep your arguments / points straight.

You stated:
"But to say that the success of a product says "nothing" about its quality is the silliest thing you've ever written on this forum, which is no small feat."

sleepngbear replied:
Mcdonalds

to which you replied:

"Swing-and-a-miss. Say what you want about McDonalds, but there are people out there that genuinely like it. If there weren't, it never would be able to boast "billions and billions served."

Point being no one was talking about who "liked" what. Obviously people like Apple and McDonalds, noone is forcing anyone to eat at McDonalds or buy Apple phones... The statement was made that quality does not equate to sales (or vice versa). Then a very good example (or more than one) was given.

My points are very straight. Your reading comprehension, on the other hand, needs some work. Here is the statement to which I originally responded :

Yes, iOS is a more popular choice. This only says that Apple as a company has better marketing and a wider audience. It says absolutely nothing about the quality or efficiency of their products, which is what we were discussing here in this thread.

The argument there is that the quality of iOS and or iOS products "says absolutely nothing about the quality or efficiency of their products.” This is a specific statement claiming that the quality of these products is a non-factor in its success. That’s a different argument than “sales and quality aren’t correlated.” At no point have I claimed that high sales equate to high quality. But what I did do was reject the argument that in the case of iOS products, their quality has nothing to do with their success.

Im not going to go through 8 pages of this thread, or any others, to find you examples of times where people have clearly and illogically made the connection between high sales and quality or 'superior' products. Go look yourself if it is that important to you.

Translation: that argument wasn’t made in this thread. Thanks.

[playpen007]

Why BlackBerry has not hire this gentleman and send him to the big cities to show people on the street which phone is better for the very busy working people? BlackBerry needed to send people like him to go city after city for comparing the device. John Chen has got to hire him!!!

[TGR1]

It's actually a very good example. I don't think any of us can deny McDonalds' success. But quality-wise, their food is cr@p and everybody knows it. It's unhealthy and everything tastes exactly the same.

I'm not saying Apple is the McDonalds of the smartphone industry, I'm just pointing out that sales and success don't say anything about the quality of a product. There's no direct correlation.

They are consistent in their offerings. I knew someone with food allergies who often opted to go to McDs when traveling for that reason.

Consistency is a good way of garnering trust. It can also be considered part of the quality of a company, which trickles down to their products. BBRY has repeatedly fallen down on this point and IMO that has played a role in their poor rep to date.

It's also completely nonsense to say sales are disassociated from quality. Unless there is a strong impetus to disregard quality, which typically comes in the form of cheap pricing or "I only need this once, doesn't matter if it breaks", people will buy the "best" product for the money. The big gap is how perceived quality affects the value to the consumer. And that's a really big gap here on this forum vs the current market. Slagging the competition with rigged videos may be enjoyable but it puts up a dangerously opaque rosy glow. Blackberries aren't selling. No matter how fantastic the product may be, that's a huge problem for the company if the public at large doesn't think so.

[Wiki Cydia]

is there any correlation between LIKE and QUALITY?

i mean, if I'll make the top quality dump - you, most probably, will not like it?

or you really want to prove that McDonalds burgers are top quality ones?!

Both "like" and "quality" are subjective ]. As for McDonalds, I don't care either way. But I don't care to see opinion offered as fact, and some commenters struggle to discern between the two.

[Wiki Cydia]

It's also completely nonsense to say sales are disassociated from quality. Unless there is a strong impetus to disregard quality, which typically comes in the form of cheap pricing or "I only need this once, doesn't matter if it breaks", people will buy the "best" product for the money. The big gap is how perceived quality affects the value to the consumer. And that's a really big gap here on this forum vs the current market. Slagging the competition with rigged videos may be enjoyable but it puts up a dangerously opaque rosy glow. Blackberries aren't selling. No matter how fantastic the product may be, that's a huge problem for the company if the public at large doesn't think so.

It's no coincidence that many of the posters who think highly of BB10 also argue that sales and perceived quality are unrelated.

[TGR1]

Both "like" and "quality" are subjective ]. As for McDonalds, I don't care either way. But I don't care to see opinion offered as fact, and some commenters struggle to discern between the two.

So are "best" and "overpriced/cheap". Anything subjective is factual only in one's own frame of reference, driven by one's personal opinion.

[sleepngbear]

By all means, you're welcome to have that opinion of McDonalds' food. My point is that though you don't like it, others disagree. Have whatever opinion you want, but don't try to pass of that opinion as fact.

I never said I didn't like it. I said just because it tastes good and billions of people buy it doesn't mean it's quality food. No one has yet refuted that statement inasmuch as a few of you are still trying to cling to the notion that sales = quality.